Support NeoGAF

[DOWN]

EDIT 12:40PM EST-
GOP trigger Nuclear option
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/...&smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com

Original:
Nuclear option incoming. For a fantastic ~15 minute news catch-up on basics of filibustering and nomination process, how the nuclear option was born and why it has come to a head with Gorsuch, and more about this particular situation, check out the fantastic The Daily podcast from The New York Times free: April 4 Episode

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/us/politics/neil-gorsuch-supreme-court-senate.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — Senate Democrats on Thursday filibustered the Supreme Court nomination of Judge Neil M. Gorsuch, holding the line with a precedent-busting partisan blockade of a selection for the high court and setting up a showdown over filibusters that could reshape the Senate for years.

The Democrats’ opposition is unlikely to stop Judge Gorsuch’s confirmation. Republicans were expected later on Thursday to pursue the so-called nuclear option: changing longstanding rules to bypass the filibuster and lift President Trump’s nominee with a simple majority vote. Judge Gorsuch’s final confirmation is expected on Friday.

Lawmakers convened late Thursday morning to decide whether to end debate and advance to a final vote on Judge Gorsuch. Republicans needed 60 votes — at least eight Democrats and independents joining the 52-seat majority — to end debate on the nomination and proceed to a final vote. Only a handful of Democrats defected, leaving Republicans to choose between allowing the president’s nominee to fail or bulldozing long-held Senate practice.

Deploying the nuclear option would fundamentally alter the way the Senate operates — a sign of the body’s creeping rancor in recent years after decades of at least relative bipartisanship on Supreme Court matters. Both parties have likewise warned of sweeping effects on the future of the court, predicting that the shift will lead to the elevation of more ideologically extreme judges if only a majority is required for confirmation.

 

[Whompa02]

Did I just hear Mitch McConnell vote no?

 

[SlimySnake]

Yes! Finally showing some backbone.

Hopefully this will set a precedent for the future where a simple majority can pass most legislation's and supreme court nominees.

Did I just hear Mitch McConnell vote no?

They do this so they can bring this up for a vote again.

 

[Arkeband]

Hopefully Notorious RBG can hang on a little longer until we can repay Republicans for this by nominating someone on the extreme left in four years.

 

[CrocMother]

Yes! Finally showing some backbone.

Hopefully this will set a precedent for the future where a simple majority can pass most legislation's and supreme court nominees.


They do this so they can bring this up for a vote again.

Hopefully this doesn't backfire for liberals...

 

[Lifeline]

How long can they hold his off?

Also who are the democrats that defected?

 

[studyguy]

Cloture just failed.
Yes McConnell votes no to speed the process up since voting in the affirmative lets him reset the vote iirc. It's just procedural shit. Anyway buckle up we're going nuclear.

 

[inner-G]

Good.

Now when the Dems take back over, they can use their simple majority to change the SC Justice terms and get 7 fresh libs in there

 

[Whompa02]

Clever girls

 

[Brandon F]

Hopefully this doesn't backfire for liberals...

That is the fear for the next nomination, possibly under Trump also.

 

[lastflowers]

Hopefully Notorious RBG can hang on a little longer until we can repay Republicans for this by nominating someone on the extreme left in four years.

And they are dancing, the board floor slamming under the jackboots and the fiddlers grinning hideously over their canted pieces. Towering over them all is Notorious RBG and she is naked dancing, her small feet lively and quick and now in doubletime and bowing to the gents, huge and pale and hairless, like an enormous infant. She never sleeps, she says. She says she'll never die. She bows to the fiddlers and sashays backwards and throws back her head and laughs deep in her throat and she is a great favorite, the justice. She wafts her hat and the lunar dome of her skull passes palely under the lamps and he swings about and takes possession of one of the fiddles and she pirouettes and makes a pass, two passes, dancing and fiddling all at once. Her feet are light and nimble. She never sleeps. She says that she will never die. She dances in light and in shadow and she is a great favorite. She never sleeps, the justice. She is dancing, dancing. She says that she will never die.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

Clever girls

lol

 

[mercenar1e]

did McCain say no and switched his vote to yes? lol

 

[SS4Gogita]

"There cannot be two sets of standards: one for the nominees of the Democratic president and another for the nominee of a Republican president.”

Oh, you mean like when you failed to even attempt to confirm Obama's pick?

 

[studyguy]

Call the bluff now, because if they pull the trigger here, they would have pulled the trigger next time anyway. The loss of the filibuster in the end hurts both parties regardless. The blade cuts both ways as no party is in the majority forever.

On the upside, legislative filibuster will never die because if there's anything that politicians are utterly afraid of is their feet being held to the fire when they're in the majority and 100% in control of legislation flying or falling due to rifts in their own party. Easier to blame your legislation's failing on the other party than your own.

 

[NandoGip]

Forgive me for not understanding all the cogs in this situation, but I believe that even if it is a pointless gesture, democrats should send a message to their base that they will fight on the grounds that this nomination was stolen.

Now on the other hand, some of the most intelligent people in the party has said that this is the wrong choice. Can someone clarify to me why?

 

[LiK]

Nuclear option detected.

 

[Metroidvania]

Man, this quote from McConnell in the article....

And it cannot and it will not stand. There cannot be two sets of standards: one for the nominees of the Democratic president and another for the nominee of a Republican president."

This is such complete and utter hypocrisy, lol.

Now on the other hand, some of the most intelligent people in the party has said that this is the wrong choice. Can someone clarify to me why?

Presumably, the thought is that Gorsuch isn't the 'worst' option, so save the filibuster for something that Republicans are more likely to 'cave' to and not try to use the Nuclear option for.

Problem is, any Dems who try for this large-scale are going to lose pretty much any democratic support, especially after Garland.

 

[MLCodest]

Good. Just hope RBG can hang out until we get a democrat in office.

 

[platocplx]

republicans will fuck themselves over years to come if they dont honor this tradition. It has already backfired on Dems with confirmation hearings. We pretty much are going to real division and simple majorities being the way the country will be run. Not sure if this is a good thing at all.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Not sure where this is where I'd want to draw a line in the sand, we're 3 months in. Gorsuch is an awful human being, but this gives the GOP the ability to pass a ton of shitty legislation over the next 2-3+ years with a simple majority.

This is probably the most terrifying thing I've seen to date out of this election.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Man, this quote from McConnell in the article....



This is such complete and utter hypocrisy, lol.

Oh fuck off

 

[tuxfool]

Not sure where this is where I'd want to draw a line in the sand, we're 3 months in. Gorsuch is an awful human being, but this gives the GOP the ability to pass a ton of shitty legislation over the next 2-3+ years with a simple majority.

This is probably the most terrifying thing I've seen to date out of this election.

This applies to SC nominees, not to legislation.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Fuck the Republicans for stealing this seat.

 

[WedgeX]

A filibuster on a bluster, down pouring day in DC?

This'll make for someones go-to prestige drama some day.

 

[metalslimer]

That is the fear for the next nomination, possibly under Trump also.

They would kill it anyway. The filibuster has no purpose for the SC anymore. It gets a lot trickier if the legislative nuclear option ever comes up

It took the Dems years to kill it for lower court appointments after unprecedented obstruction and dems can't even use it once?

The purpose is that Trump should have to send someone more moderate to break the filibuster. If all dems can expect to get is right wing extremists there is no point to not filibustet

 

[Lord Frieza]

Hopefully this doesn't backfire for liberals...

That is the fear for the next nomination, possibly under Trump also.

Guys, this is silly thinking. If they're willing to go nuclear now, they'll just go nuclear the next time if it's filibusteres.

 

[UCBooties]

Hopefully this doesn't backfire for liberals...

Of course it's going to backfire. There's no endgame here, there's no win state. This is a symbolic block that's payback for the Republican's refusal to hold a vote for Merric Garland. One way or the other, Trump (or another Republican if he gets ousted) is going to fill this seat, and possibly others over the next four years of this term.

I understand full well that the Republican's started this mess with their insane power grab, but it worked, and now the Democrats have no choice but to obstruct within the full measure of the law. But it still looks terrible for them and there's a limit to how long they are going to be able to draw this out. In case it hasn't become perfectly clear, pointing out that the Republicans are a bunch of lying, cheating, thieving cons who refuse to deal in good faith never actually wins the Democrats anything.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

McConnell uses Nuclear Option

It is super effective

 

[Unison]

I hate the word choice that the Democrats are "killing" the filibuster that I keep hearing on the news.

No, the Democrats are *using* the filibuster.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Fuck Republicans. This is Garland's seat they stole.

 

[Lord Frieza]

And Gorsuch is a terrible fucking pick. He'll well worth the stand. His record is pure garbage

 

[Angelus Errare]

Good. I still haven't fully understood the argument against this.

If RBG or any other dies we'd be fucked whether they fillibuster this one or not. Let this one go by, a SCOTUS justice dies, we fillibust that replacement nominee and then republicans use the nuclear option and we still end up with that nominee.

Fillibust now, nuclear option, next nominee gets in easy.

 

[Arkeband]

Presumably, the thought is that Gorsuch isn't the 'worst' option, so save the filibuster for something that Republicans are more likely to 'cave' to and not try to use the Nuclear option for.

Problem is, any Dems who try for this large-scale are going to lose pretty much any democratic support, especially after Garland.

Yeah, but here's the thing, there are moderate Republicans who would be less likely to vote for someone too far-right, Gorsuch kind of sucks but he could be worse.

Democrats are doing the right thing here, just gambling and getting it out of the way now. It's going to happen eventually, and they're fucked either way.

By killing the filibuster they also neuter Republicans when the pendulum swings back the other way, which it inevitably will.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Not sure where this is where I'd want to draw a line in the sand, we're 3 months in. Gorsuch is an awful human being, but this gives the GOP the ability to pass a ton of shitty legislation over the next 2-3+ years with a simple majority.

This is probably the most terrifying thing I've seen to date out of this election.

This is my take on it, but I'm not a well versed politics person.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Thunderstorms just north of DC. Quite ominous.

 

[fredrancour]

Not sure where this is where I'd want to draw a line in the sand, we're 3 months in. Gorsuch is an awful human being, but this gives the GOP the ability to pass a ton of shitty legislation over the next 2-3+ years with a simple majority.

This is probably the most terrifying thing I've seen to date out of this election.

this only changes it for supreme court nominees, not for laws. the rules on procedure are compartmentalized.

 

[dave is ok]

This seems really shortsighted. All you're doing is giving them political cover to do the rule change and then the next appointment, as awful as it may be, gets through easily with 51 votes.

Trump could do ALOT worse than Gorsuch

Good. I still haven't fully understood the argument against this.

If RBG or any other dies we'd be fucked whether they fillibuster this one or not. Let this one go by, a SCOTUS justice dies, we fillibust that replacement nominee and then republicans use the nuclear option and we still end up with that nominee.

Fillibust now, nuclear option, next nominee gets in easy.

The point is they'd rather have that fight over an actual terrible appointee

 

[Resident_UA]

And Gorsuch is a terrible fucking pick. He'll well worth the stand. His record is pure garbage

When you compare him to other Trump picks he is AMAZING!!!

 

[studyguy]

Not sure where this is where I'd want to draw a line in the sand, we're 3 months in. Gorsuch is an awful human being, but this gives the GOP the ability to pass a ton of shitty legislation over the next 2-3+ years with a simple majority.

This is probably the most terrifying thing I've seen to date out of this election.

This is a judicial filibuster, not legislative.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Guys, this is silly thinking. If they're willing to go nuclear now, they'll just go nuclear the next time if it's filibusteres.

.

No idea why anyone would think the GOP wouldn't be MORE gung-ho to nuke it next time when their nominee will almost surely be replacing a liberal judge.

It's dead. It's been dead since the Dems agreed not to use it to filibuster Alito and Roberts in the '00s.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

This seems really shortsighted. All you're doing is giving them political cover to do the rule change and then the next appointment, as awful as it may be, gets through easily with 51 votes.

It would happen anyways. It's a fucking stupid rule to begin with because it can be done away with using a simple majority vote. What is even the point?

 

[ReplacementPelican]

And it cannot and it will not stand. There cannot be two sets of standards: one for the nominees of the Democratic president and another for the nominee of a Republican president.”

Is this guy actually serious? How can you be so hypocritical and not see it?

 

[The Albatross]

Big mistake for democrats and the senate, but whatever.

 

[akira28]

I hope mconnell's grave gets desecrated regularly. they better put him on private land and hide the location.

Big mistake for democrats and the senate, but whatever.

why "whatever" ?

 

[rjinaz]

McConnell uses Nuclear Option

It is super effective

Let them. This party is so divided I don't see how much they can accomplish. They won't be in power forever and when they lose it the progressive policies Democrats will push through will make them regret it.

 

[fwpx]

 

[Makonero]

Guys, this is silly thinking. If they're willing to go nuclear now, they'll just go nuclear the next time if it's filibusteres.

yep

there's no honor among thieves or republicans

 

[kirblar]

The rule is already dead. There's no reason to delay a fight - this is simply removing the pretense.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Big mistake, but whatever.

what do they have to gain from not using it?