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[Extollere]

I hope people aren't buying the health care bill still being on the table.. Trump and Ryan made a huge mistake saying the bill is dead and republicans are taking massive heat for this. These renewed talks are just a smokescreen to keep their constituents at bay..

I'm not so sure. Do not under estimate the fuckery of republicans.

That doesn't mean you have to overestimate the competence of the GOP.

Fuckery, yes. Coming together, crafting a better, more comprehensive bill that unites the party and brings together support and confidence amidst this chaos, the recent failings of the GOP, and the pressure the public has been putting on their representatives to not repeal their health care?

They had their chance. Shit ain't getting done there for a long time.

 

[NullPointer]

 

[TyrantII]

The moment the Democrats regain power of any part of Congress, they should obstruct and block everything the Republicans try to do. It clearly works.

That's clearly the lesson of the last 8 years. The GOP was rewarded for grinding Washington to a halt, instead of punished for making Americans lives and Government worse.

That's poses a problem for the Democrats being the party of good governance. But it is a lesson they need to deconstruct none the less.

As for the filibuster, it's a relic of a time when both parties adhered​ to political norms. The GOP has shown no qualms with subverting those. Expecting them honor anything at this point is negligent and they'd just use the threat of nuking minority favorable rules to scare Democrats to fall in line.

The threats on breaking filibusters don't help Democrats one bit. They're often a sledgehammer for the the majority power, but as we've seen it's only hurt Democrats both in the majority and minority. In the majority then Dems are consented with breaking norms so don't wield threats with action to back them up. When in the minority, they're always lining up to kick Lucy's football, because the GOP can be trusted this time!

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

Looking forward to the Democratic "Why Not 13 Justices?" Judicial Reform Act of 2021.

Pretty sure that's been tried before and was rightfully shot down. FDR I think? The public pretty quickly saw it for what it was and sided against him.

Fake edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bill_of_1937

 

[IamDodongo]

Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Know that the GOP loves? Defeatism from young voters.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I seriously really wish people would stop with the depressive hot takes that they have on the future. It's getting really annoying to read.

"Oooooohhh this won't happen. Ooooooh this will happen. Ooooooh I'm using faaaaaaacts. Ooooooooh gerrymaaaandering. Ooooooh nothing good haaaaapppeeeenns. Oooooooh nothing will come of thiiiiiiis."

You people just don't stop with this unproductive attitude that accomplishes nothing no matter what happens. You only say this just so you can satisfy your own confirmation bias of your depressing view of the world.

You constantly repeat the exact same talking points describing other facts as some giant amorphous blob that doesn't get affected by OTHER facts.

Here's the REAL fact folks. None of you, ABSOLUTELY NONE of you, knows what the future has in store. It's one thing to say on what's likely to happen, but constantly spamming your depressing worldviews as 100% fact only creates more depression to those around you and less action, when the latter is what's needed more than ever right now!

.

 

[Omegasquash]

Of course the GOP was begging them not to, lol. At the time, they wanted to give the 'the Dems are being CRAZY' approach to their base while simultaneously near, if not unilaterlly blocking Obama's appointments.

And with Garland, it wasn't even filibustering, it was flat-out obstruction.

While I don't disagree that Harry Reid's actions were at least partly responsible for getting us to this point, I don't know if McConnell wouldn't have gone nuclear even without the precedent. Things are too 'us versus them' right now.

I agree for the most part. I am hesitant to give Mitch McConnell benefit of the doubt in any case. He's an objectively bad representative that took every opportunity to obstruct as hard as he could. I'll go on record as saying that the sooner he isn't involved in government, the better off the world will be. He's as bad for America as Antonin Scalia was.

While I think these are mostly reasonable points, I see it differently.

In 2013, it came down to whether or not you wanted a functioning judicial branch. If the GOP were ideologically opposed to Obama's appointments, that'd be one thing, but it was literally party over country at that point. The GOP did not care if the government came to a standstill on Obama's watch. That's what they wanted. They deliberately took steps to hurt the nation by prioritizing opposition over governing. The dems could have held fast and refused to change the rules but that would not have benefited anyone. The judicial branch would still be crippled, Obama would look bad for failing to get his appointments through, and the GOP would be successful in the goal of blocking everything and anything Obama related. The dems were also quickly losing power in both the senate and the house with no guarantee that they'd get those seats back or even retain the white house in 2016. It would have been even worse had the dems given in to GOP obstructionism and then lost the white house in 2016. The nuclear option wasn't a good choice but it was the least bad one on the table.

That's fine, and I'm willing to state that the GOP is, was, and will be for awhile, in the wrong. They obstructed for the sake of obstruction, vs. progress in any form. They blocked Garland just to give Obama the finger, and it was very clear while they were doing it. But in this case, they have an easy way to say "tit for tat." You, I, and a whole lot of other folks know that's just smoke getting blown up our ass, but that's what they're doing, and that's how much of their base sees it. Doing this will score political points with some of their base.

 

[Blader]

If Dems have the senate they'll use the nuclear option too, wouldn't they?

Well, no, because there's no reason to anymore. I mean, you could theoretically restore the 60-vote threshold again, but then it would appear especially pointless because of how it easily it was nuked in the first place.

Unless you're talking about the legislative filibuster, which, no they won't and shouldn't.

so for the next 40 years we are going to have a judge so extreme and stupid and is going to interpret the constitution as it was written at the time, by the slave owning founding fathers

and people think things are going to change anytime soon in this country? not for another 30-40 years

We've had a majority-conservative Supreme Court since Nixon was in office. I think we can agree that there has been some pretty significant social progress made then in spite of the right's hold on SCOTUS.

 

[Father_Brain]

Good. No point in having the filibuster if Dems are afraid to use it.

 

[RDreamer]

Know that the GOP loves? Defeatism from young voters.

You know what they also love? Young voters with inflated expectations that lash out when their hopes are dashed because a fairly realistic scenario happened. It's largely why the 2010 wave happened and gave Republicans all this power.

We really need a middle ground. We don't want defeatism but also can't have over inflated expectations. We need to be rational and consistent with our voting.

 

[Late Flag]

Good. Honestly, it was pretty stupid that you could filibuster a nominee (not just for SCOTUS, but for anything). If a faction uses the filibuster to block a bill, no big deal, we just stick with the status quo. Blocking a nominee leaves a vacancy open with no good status quo waiting in the wings. Reid should have scrapped this for SCOTUS nominations back when he got rid of it for other nominations.

 

[CazTGG]

That's clearly the lesson of the last 8 years. The GOP was rewarded for grinding Washington to a halt, instead of punished for making Americans lives and Government worse.

I'm curious: Do the Democrats have the power to shut down the government like the GOP did in 2013 as a last resort?

 

[Swass]

Democrats will not have any of that type of power for quite some time. They will not make any gains in 2018.

Why is this the assumption.. If the Georgia special election is showing anything, it could be a bloodbath in 2018..

I'm curious: Do the Democrats have the power to shut down the government like the GOP did in 2013 as a last resort?

I'm not sure but I've heard it speculated that it will be the infighting that will cause the shut down, not the dems.

 

[Metroidvania]

Good. Honestly, it was pretty stupid that you could filibuster a nominee (not just for SCOTUS, but for anything). If a faction uses the filibuster to block a bill, no big deal, we just stick with the status quo. Blocking a nominee leaves a vacancy open with no good status quo waiting in the wings. Reid should have scrapped this for SCOTUS nominations back when he got rid of it for other nominations.

...Wat.

The entire point of leaving the SCOTUS out of the filibuster at the time was due to how huge of an impact it has on American politics.

The (presumed) intention was to leave the SCOTUS apolitical to some extent, hence leaving the 60 vote majority (again presumably) requiring a judge that both parties could agree on.

Besides, Repubs didn't Filibuster Garland, they outright refused to come to his hearing to even have the vote.

 

[Ogodei]

Pretty sure that's been tried before and was rightfully shot down. FDR I think? The public pretty quickly saw it for what it was and sided against him.

Fake edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_Procedures_Reform_Bill_of_1937

The reason it never happened is not only because of the blowback FDR experienced, but because the mostly-Hoover/Coolidge-appointed Supreme Court saw the threat for what it was and backed off of their systematic attempt to dismantle the New Deal.

A right-wing supreme court that makes some wrongheaded decisions on abortion or gay rights is very disagreeable, but not a threat to Democracy. A right-wing supreme court that can reliably shoot down any attempt at progressive legislation based on some loophole or other is a threat to the very state and would have to be amended.

But folks like John Roberts are smart enough to get where the line is that i suspect we won't get to that point even if Trump does get to appoint a replacement for RBG. Roberts' weird reasoning in his decision to preserve the individual mandate of the ACA was, to me, a clear sign that he didn't think the Court should be used the way the GOP was trying to use it, as a backdoor to annul any legislation they don't like.

 

[guek]

I still wonder if it would have been possible for Obama to make the appointment without Senate approval based on the idea that no hearing means the Senate absolved itself from its responsibilities. It would have gone to the SCOTUS and almost certainly would have failed but I still wonder about it...

 

[jmdajr]

I'm curious: Do the Democrats have the power to shut down the government like the GOP did in 2013 as a last resort?

The GOP will do it themselves. You think they can agree on a budget?

 

[thehypocrite]

I understand, but looking at Gorsuch as a judge, he is qualified. Even if we don't agree with everything he's done. And either way he's getting the seat.



It's time for the government to work in a bipartisan manner.

Now is the time? Tell that to Obama that was obstructed at every opportunity. Actions have consequences.

 

[studyguy]

The image of a man whose tough decision weighs heavy on his conscience after years of crying wolf regarding the nuclear option.... oh wait.

https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/850036206754816006

Roll Call
@rollcall

McConnell gives a thumbs up following the 'nuclear option' vote on the Senate floor today.

There was never any judicial filibuster to defend. It died ages ago.

 

[Beartruck]

We've had a majority-conservative Supreme Court since Nixon was in office. I think we can agree that there has been some pretty significant social progress made then in spite of the right's hold on SCOTUS.

Thank you. We had gay marriage pass under Scalia, little will change under Gorsuch. Now if RBG dies in the next 4 years, then we're fucked.

 

[thehypocrite]

The image of a man whose tough decision weighs heavy on his conscience after years of crying wolf regarding the nuclear option.... oh wait.

https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/850036206754816006


There was never any judicial filibuster to defend. It died ages ago.

They were always going to get rid of it.

 

[DrMungo]

The image of a man whose tough decision weighs heavy on his conscience after years of crying wolf regarding the nuclear option.... oh wait.

https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/850036206754816006


There was never any judicial filibuster to defend. It died ages ago.

The Dems should have nuked the filibuster years ago and beaten them to the punch. We would have had much better healthcare. I had a feeling he's been itching to nuke that shit the first chance he gets.

 

[Kusagari]

The image of a man whose tough decision weighs heavy on his conscience after years of crying wolf regarding the nuclear option.... oh wait.

https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/850036206754816006


There was never any judicial filibuster to defend. It died ages ago.

The entire thing was a joke to begin with. Getting someone like Gorsuch on the court was one of the main reason guys like McConnell stood behind Trump. They don't actually like the orange goblin.

 

[Shard]

The image of a man whose tough decision weighs heavy on his conscience after years of crying wolf regarding the nuclear option.... oh wait.

https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/850036206754816006


There was never any judicial filibuster to defend. It died ages ago.

I am sure this picture will never come back to haunt the turtle ever.

 

[Chococat]

I'm curious: Do the Democrats have the power to shut down the government like the GOP did in 2013 as a last resort?

Dems don't have the House, Senate, or Presidency due the not voting during mid terms and progressive purity test. We gave the Republican all the power though apathy and infighting. We all got the government we deserve.

Sorry, I am quite bitter now that rest of my life is going to see the loss of all the rights gains by women, LGBTQ, and minorities.

 

[Horns]

The Dems should have nuked the filibuster years ago and beaten them to the punch. We would have had much better healthcare. I had a feeling he's been itching to nuke that shit the first chance he gets.

If republicans pull the nuclear option for legislation there will be riots, fires, and deaths. I will welcome it too.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

The entire thing was a joke to begin with. Getting someone like Gorsuch on the court was one of the main reason guys like McConnell stood behind Trump. They don't actually like the orange goblin.

.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Hope this backfires. I hope they realize this is for Democrats too. So when we are back in power(soon), we will just put more liberals judges up.

They done fucked up.

 

[GaimeGuy]

If republicans pull the nuclear option for legislation there will be riots, fires, and deaths. I will welcome it too.

I welcome it now. The GOP stole a supreme court seat for a generation. Until I'm approaching retirement. And with the aid of a foreign power. Without a plurality of voters behind them.

I don't have the balls to do anything. I admit it. I'm weak. Perhaps someone else does. Fear for their own well being might whip them into shape where consideration for civil discourse and the principles of democracy failed.

I'm fucking done with discouraging violence. I won't encourage it. I won't organize it. Democracy only works with the consent of the losers. I will tolerate violence against those who have, by violation of this fundamental, unspoken rule, taken up arms against our democracy.

The GOP did not tolerate democracy when they lost. And when the democrat lost, republicans changed the rules to weaken then further. If they are targeted by others... so be it.

I can't believe I've reached this point where I am willing to discard my empathy. I feel like a monster. But, being tribal creatures who look to leadership for guidance and shaping of our behavior and morals (such is the power of language), against the onslaught of our political leaders as we have now, I am becoming lost.

I hope someone can arise to save me from my own moral downfall, and that time may take its toll on people like Mitch McConnell, so that it may mend my wounds.


Please, don't take this post as a call to arms. It's... really, it's a cry for help and an open cry of despair as I struggle with the realization that my own government is overtaken by people who seek to do me harm and undermine our own country whenever I obtain political power. I... can no longer deny that Republicans do not view me as a partner, but as an enemy, and have unilaterally, unquestionably rejected my relentless attempts at working towards common goals for the betterment of all of us. They do not view me as a partner, an ally, or even someone whose own happiness can in any way be correlated with their own and now, I realize there is no hope of changing their minds.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Why is this the assumption.. If the Georgia special election is showing anything, it could be a bloodbath in 2018..

The only reason that particular seat is in play for the democrats is due to a split republican field, something that is not going to be an issue in 2018 barring third parties running to the right in the general election siphoning off votes.

 

[Kusagari]

If republicans pull the nuclear option for legislation there will be riots, fires, and deaths. I will welcome it too.

Say what you want about McConnell but he's not an idiot and he knows how disastrous that would be. The legislative filibuster exists right now to the full benefit of the GOP. It protects them absolutely from Ryan's terrible agenda in the house that McConnell wants nothing to do with.

 

[Slime]

If they could nuke it so effortlessly, it never meant anything anyway.

 

[inner-G]

This shit's shady AF.

When dems get back in power, they should change the rules to where so they can excuse sitting justices, then change it back afterwards.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

The image of a man whose tough decision weighs heavy on his conscience after years of crying wolf regarding the nuclear option.... oh wait.

https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/850036206754816006


There was never any judicial filibuster to defend. It died ages ago.

I hope his shit grin gets turned into a permanent frown come next election.

 

[fredrancour]

This shit's shady AF.

When dems get back in power, they should change the rules to where so they can excuse sitting justices, then change it back afterwards.

pretty sure the regulations on justices sitting for life are in the constitution. there is no way trump ravages the country so badly that there's enough political will for the dems to pass a constitutional amendment resetting the supreme court.

 

[Renji_11]

If republicans pull the nuclear option for legislation there will be riots, fires, and deaths. I will welcome it too.

They won't do that since it removes the veil where they can't blame democrats for anything then and would have no excuses to pass their agenda. I think the heath care bill shows they can't govern.

 

[Trey]

If they could nuke it so effortlessly, it never meant anything anyway.

Republican Party are now beyond the soft checks of reason that the older Congress behaved under.

 

[Blader]

The image of a man whose tough decision weighs heavy on his conscience after years of crying wolf regarding the nuclear option.... oh wait.

https://twitter.com/rollcall/status/850036206754816006


There was never any judicial filibuster to defend. It died ages ago.

This could very well by McConnell's only win for the next three years (assuming there isn't another SCOTUS vacancy in that time). He's gonna want to revel in it as long as possible.

 

[ErichWK]

I wonder if they will reinstate the filibuster if the dems regain power. Ha

 

[Beartruck]

I wonder if they will reinstate the filibuster if the dems regain power. Ha

Its dead forever. If it was ever reinstated, there is now a precedent that the ruling party can and will kill it.

 

[Elandyll]

Frankly, the filibuster and 60 votes treshold was a tool for another era, where the word "compromise" had not been turned into an insult by ideological extremists (mostly right wing and anti gov tea party).

We're at the point where positions are so opposite (and the electorate having decided to reward a party with 7 years of obstructionism with complete power) that having an elected majority should be enough to have your picks in place to govern.
We should be thankfull enough if they leave the legislative 60 vote requirement alone tbh.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I wonder if they will reinstate the filibuster if the dems regain power. Ha

They won't but it doesn't matter anyway because the precedent is there to remove it.

It's dead forever.

 

[OuterLimits]

Politically, Republicans couldn't allow Garland since it was replacing Scalia. That would have caused conservatives to have a bigger uproar than even the Gang of 8 immigration reform attempt.

Conservatives were already unhappy that some Repubs voted for Sotomayor and Kagan.(less so for Kagan, she only got 63 total votes compared to 68 for Sotomayor. ) However since they were replacing liberal judges, the outrage was only a fraction of what would have happened if they voted for Garland replacing Scalia.

It was reported that Collins and McCain were trying to work out a deal with some Democrats to avoid going nuclear. Basically saying vote for Gorsuch and they wouldn't support the nuclear option on the next judge. Obviously the negotiations went rather poorly. Lol.

 

[Apt101]

Of course they would have eventually.

Obama should have used whatever special maneuvers he could have to get his nomination in prior to leaving office. The GOP simply do not and will never again care about orderly, bipartisan, sober governance.

 

[Blader]

It was reported that Collins and McCain were trying to work out a deal with some Democrats to avoid going nuclear. Basically saying vote for Gorsuch and they wouldn't support the nuclear option on the next judge. Obviously the negotiations went rather poorly. Lol.

Good. There is no reason to believe them when they were just as fine going ahead to eliminate the filibuster now.

Either you're in favor of keeping the filibuster or you aren't.

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

It was reported that Collins and McCain were trying to work out a deal with some Democrats to avoid going nuclear. Basically saying vote for Gorsuch and they wouldn't support the nuclear option on the next judge. Obviously the negotiations went rather poorly. Lol.

They totally would have gone back on their word and supported the nuclear option on the next judge anyway.

 

[Spider from Mars]

I wonder if they will reinstate the filibuster if the dems regain power. Ha

Then the dems will just get rid of it again. It's dead forever now.

 

[Averon]

It was reported that Collins and McCain were trying to work out a deal with some Democrats to avoid going nuclear. Basically saying vote for Gorsuch and they wouldn't support the nuclear option on the next judge. Obviously the negotiations went rather poorly. Lol.

Thank god Dems weren't stupid enough to believe them. The next seat to open up is likely a liberal justice's seat. You don't think the GOP would swiftly kill the filibuster if Ginsberbg seat were to open up in 2019, for example? No 'gentleman's' agreement in the world would stop the GOP from going nuclear if that were the case.

 

[Leona Lewis]

Dems don't have the House, Senate, or Presidency due the not voting during mid terms and progressive purity test. We gave the Republican all the power though apathy and infighting. We all got the government we deserve.

Sorry, I am quite bitter now that rest of my life is going to see the loss of all the rights gains by women, LGBTQ, and minorities.

You can stay bitter, or you can actually do something.

And by the way, those protections aren't going way. Unless you haven't been following the news or are just willfully ignorant.

Your avatar has it right. Resist.

Don't relent.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Good. There is no reason to believe them when they were just as fine going ahead to eliminate the filibuster now.

Either you're in favor of keeping the filibuster or you aren't.

I have no reason to believe anything Republicans say at this point. They'd just come up with some bullshit reasoning with the next nominee, pinning the reasoning for their deal changing on the Democrats as they push through their will by force anyway.

It's unfortunate, but if rules can be changed this easily, it should just be done with already. Pretty stupid to put a rule in place that requires 60 votes but then have the back door to remove the rule with only 51 anyhow.