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Denis Dyack in 1up yours. NeoGAF is "hurting society," justifies having it shut down
- Thread starter Rlan
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mousepad42
Member
Crayon said:
This isn't a conspiracy or attack to stop you from posting your thoughts. Its a message telling you to think about what you're doing before you post, and hopefully open your eyes to specific behavior that is counter-productive.
Crayon said:
No, you didn't understand my point.
It's pretty obvious that he's trying to pin all the negativity on forum posters who just want to attack him and Silicon Knights independently from Too Human. Yes, I know that. And it's wrong, because people look at the videos and they're pretty terrible looking, and they draw their opinions from there. So they actually have a proper opinion of the game and not a knee jerk reaction.
But this topic is evidence to the contrary with all these people coming from everywhere to call him names and say "fuck him and his game". Why? Because you listened to him on a podcast and he rambled a bit? Then maybe you should have turned it off if you didn't like it. He didn't come out of your computer and steal your time.
Now he can point to this topic and say "The neogaf people hate me and not Too Human and that's why our game failed". He can shift the blame away from any failings of the game and put it on these topics. Because all of you people in this thread are fucking idiots who can't make a coherent criticism of him and you have to just say "fuck him and fuck his game".
Jack Random
Member
So wait, if this was all an "experiment" by Dyack to "expose" how mean we are, I assume that means that Denis doesn't actually think Too Human is one of the best games to come out this year?
First E3, then Epic, now NeoGAF, seems that anywhere he brings his game where it's not well received ends up getting slammed by him in a very public way.
Denis, i was really on your side through most of this, spending years looking forward to your game, but once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is a fucking pattern.
How sour ARE those grapes?
First E3, then Epic, now NeoGAF, seems that anywhere he brings his game where it's not well received ends up getting slammed by him in a very public way.
Denis, i was really on your side through most of this, spending years looking forward to your game, but once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is a fucking pattern.
How sour ARE those grapes?
sub in "e3" for "neogaf" and you'll be having deja vu
Kill Your Masters
Member
This is a possibility, yes.probune said:
heliosRAzi
Banned
We all should've known something would be up with the animation in Too Human when the men walked around like girls in Eternal Darkness.
JonathanEx
Member
So, our contribution to society is... what? Negative?!
CoG said:
Duh. Some people weren't there for the "Put up or shut up".
I love how he's saying GAF is absolutely ridiculous because they told what they thought about a game they hadn't played, and yet when asked in the same thread "so why is your game a great game ?" that's all he could come up with.
MMaRsu
Member
well I would happily play a Too Human demo if it's so good according to him, but since there isn't one ( and I doubt there will be one anytime soon ), this game just looks kinda off to me. Not good enough to spend 60 bucks on at least judging by the videos ( even the vids on XBL marketplace with shoddy framerate etc )
Visualante
Member
I understand the specific incidents Denis is citing when he says NeoGAF has a slanted moderation policy. The .gifs, personal attacks etc.
Personally I don't think I've ever been influenced by the moderation staff here or the currency of tags. I simply don't put any weight into them or take the time to acknowledge particular incidents. I post whatever I want unless there is a specific announcement at the top of the site eg. the current speculative port discussion.
But I do see it in other posters, what Denis is saying is real. I am honestly quite surprised he didn't propose the abolition of tags entirely. I guess he didn't want to appear to be imposing on EviLore's management. What he said came off entirely as a warning more than a threat, even if it didn't sound like it at times.
Personally I don't think I've ever been influenced by the moderation staff here or the currency of tags. I simply don't put any weight into them or take the time to acknowledge particular incidents. I post whatever I want unless there is a specific announcement at the top of the site eg. the current speculative port discussion.
But I do see it in other posters, what Denis is saying is real. I am honestly quite surprised he didn't propose the abolition of tags entirely. I guess he didn't want to appear to be imposing on EviLore's management. What he said came off entirely as a warning more than a threat, even if it didn't sound like it at times.
Visualante
Member
Yes it was Jim, he was banned temporarily, then when he returned his moderation status was revoked. I don't know anything more than that or his current status.WrikaWrek said:
probune said:
Kifimbo said:
Visualante said:
But jim is still a Mod.
Is that the kind of mod we want? I don't sympathize with Denis right now, because it's his own doing, but the Jeff Bell situation, that's something i'm completely against. It would never cross my mind to do something like that, and the fact that there's a mod right now who has done it in the past, i don't know, it just doesn't feel right.
Crayon said:
It was more general than just you. It goes for a lot of people in the thread who insult him directly.
I specifically took issue with the ad hominem attack where you called him a manipulative little worm. Not because it's not true (I don't know him at all, so I can't say either way) but because he can point to comments like that as hate specifically for him and not for the game.
In my opinion Dyack called this on himself. He was the one starting topics about being "for or against".
As a game producer he should stay neutral in all the discussions that are going on at Gaf.
Gaf is a society discussing what they think of a certain game/other topic. Dyack mixing in the discussion just sort of threw off the balance.
Ofcourse people are going to direct their thoughts much more directly at him now, it's only natural.
Dyack starting to whine 'n moan at 1up's show that the community is directing their hate at him directly now, is like a person going directly to Blizzard cuz he was ganked earlier.
As a producer Dyack should've been above this and show the community what he stands for with a released game. Instead he himself unchained this thing before the game was even released. Taking part in this "discussion" only adds fuel to the fire and he should've known that.
I was seriously interested in this game, now all the childish mud throwing is making me reluctant to even look into it though.
As a game producer he should stay neutral in all the discussions that are going on at Gaf.
Gaf is a society discussing what they think of a certain game/other topic. Dyack mixing in the discussion just sort of threw off the balance.
Ofcourse people are going to direct their thoughts much more directly at him now, it's only natural.
Dyack starting to whine 'n moan at 1up's show that the community is directing their hate at him directly now, is like a person going directly to Blizzard cuz he was ganked earlier.
As a producer Dyack should've been above this and show the community what he stands for with a released game. Instead he himself unchained this thing before the game was even released. Taking part in this "discussion" only adds fuel to the fire and he should've known that.
I was seriously interested in this game, now all the childish mud throwing is making me reluctant to even look into it though.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. Happy July Fourth to all the American NeoGAFfers.
As for Too Human and Mr. Dyack, I would not buy that game now even if I could.
As for Too Human and Mr. Dyack, I would not buy that game now even if I could.
Visualante
Member
GAF isn't a democracy.WrikaWrek said:
Another point I'll add to strengthen Denis' argument that message boards overall are influencing gaming more and more everyday. I read a preview of a game that will remain nameless (it's not relevant), where the developer stated that the key improvements they made in this entry of the franchise came directly from gaming message board feedback.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
As bad as Denis Dyack represented himself in this podcast, he didn't have too far to fall. However, the 1upYours crew was absolutely pitiful (well, Garnett wasn't too bad actually). It was pitiful to hear them nodding along. Pretty much everybody would agree the podcast's golden days are long gone, but it truly wasn't evident how much 1UpYours has regressed until this episode. Shane, I'm embarrassed FOR you, that was some serious wahjah. Major disappointment in the 1upYours members.
PrivateRyan
Member
probune said:
If not this topic, he'd have pointed to another. If not this forum, he would have pointed to another.
What's sad is ALL of Silicon Knights is suffering because of these episodes. Regardless of whether NeoGAF/Denis Dyack is right/wrong, there are a large number of people here saying they're not going to give the game a chance based on Denis' behaviour. And that makes me feel for the dev team that has worked on Too Human. Not necessarily because Too Human is being written off, but because Too Human is being written off by some people based on Denis' behaviour.
I don't feel sorry for Denis Dyack because this he'd have to be incredibly naive to think his behaviour on GAF thus far wouldn't have invoked some sort of reaction, the 'put up or shut up' being the absolute nadir thus far. But it's a game by Silicon Knights, not by Denis Dyack, and for a whole game to be written off because of the behaviour of one man is kinda sad.
EDIT: I can't help but wonder how the rest of SK feels when Denis goes on these parades either, especially when they see the reaction.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
WrikaWrek said:
Not pretending to justify anything.
But the identity of Jeff Bell was pretty much confirmed, by the time Jim completely confirmed it. Yes, it's was wrong, but I think is was more an innocent mistake, he got carried away by the situation (quite awesome, I must say) and the general exciment, that a high PR from MS acted in that childish way. And did that.
Jim was always a great mod IMO, and just for one sin/error should be not doomed forever, I think he learned his lesson
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
For you, Denis. This is your problem:
Adj. 1. egotistical - characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance
egotistic, narcissistic, self-loving
selfish - concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others; "Selfish men were...trying to make capital for themselves out of the sacred cause of civil rights"- Maria Weston Chapman
2. egotistical - characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her clothes"
self-conceited, swollen, swollen-headed, vain, conceited, egotistic
proud - feeling self-respect or pleasure in something by which you measure your self-worth; or being a reason for pride; "proud parents"; "proud of his accomplishments"; "a proud moment"; "proud to serve his country"; "a proud name"; "proud princes"
Adj. 1. egotistical - characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance
egotistic, narcissistic, self-loving
selfish - concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others; "Selfish men were...trying to make capital for themselves out of the sacred cause of civil rights"- Maria Weston Chapman
2. egotistical - characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her clothes"
self-conceited, swollen, swollen-headed, vain, conceited, egotistic
proud - feeling self-respect or pleasure in something by which you measure your self-worth; or being a reason for pride; "proud parents"; "proud of his accomplishments"; "a proud moment"; "proud to serve his country"; "a proud name"; "proud princes"
Blimblim said:
I wouldn't say it's awesome either (I'd have to play more to make such an assertion) but on the other hand it's quite unique, the controls are certainly interesting and even if the design is horrible when it comes to characters and equipment, it's always cool to loot some new powerful sword or armor and kick the ass of twenty-something foes in a swing. Only concern I have is with the way you aim your guns, but otherwise I'm really looking forward to getting my copy and spend some time on it.
There is some truth to the idea that a message board like GAF could hurt the sales of Too Human. Its the type of game that would need to be embraced by the enthusiasts (us) to transcend to wider success. It doesn't have either the licensed appeal (like a Disney game or 50 cent) nor has it earned any sort of mainstream recognition the way a Halo, Mario or GTA game has. If the enthusiasts who congregate on boards like NeoGaf, IGN, 1up or where ever are reluctant to embrace the game based on hearsay, rumors and other like threads, I don't see how the game could be successful.
Woffls
Member
I've not spent much time gaffing, but the little time that i have spent has allowed me to acknowledge that most people's opinion's are worth ignoring. Dyack should realise this and just ignore us and make the damn game as good as he can. Then when 1up give it an A, gaf will move on and start bitching about Banjo Kazooie instead.
Crayon
Member
probune said:
His words and behavior those of a manipulative worm.
How's that sound?
I think I get what you are trying to say here but unless you can tell me what point of his I'm proving (other than encouraging him to scapegoat us some more which I doubt was intended to be a point of his) then we are going in circles.
The guy's put himself out there and he seems like a real piece of work. And now I'm saying it on the forum.
If in fact his point was that we're generally displeased with him then that I have indeed helped prove. I can't take too much credit for proving it because it was all to obvious that people are displeased with him.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
truly101 said:
The greatest negative impact on Too Human has been Denis' behavior. Plain and simple, those who read and post on message boards have had more than enough of his excuses and egotistical rants.
Visualante
Member
I think Denis might have picked that up from Phil on the Player One Podcast. He refers to our usernames as hacker aliases and the forum as the neogaf.Jirotrom said:
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