Support NeoGAF

[fistfulofmetal]

so wait, gaf can express their thoughts and feelings with no limitations, but dyack cant? im confused.

note: i take no sides, just wondering what he technically did wrong here...

I don't think anyone is saying he can't. We're just expressing our right to call him dumb for the things he said.

 

[Memphis Reigns]

I don't think anyone is saying he can't. We're just expressing our right to call him dumb for the things he said.

ok that makes sense i guess. all is fair in love and war

 

[Dyno]

I don't think anyone is saying he can't. We're just expressing our right to call him dumb for the things he said.

When he started talking about lines being crossed and messageboards making changes lest they be shut down one way or another he went beyond expressing his opinion and into means of suppressing ours.

 

[Snowden]

so wait, gaf can express their thoughts and feelings with no limitations, but dyack cant? im confused.

note: i take no sides, just wondering what he technically did wrong here...

One problem is that he certainly has a right to express himself sans limitations, but in doing so, he is calling a a both self-imposed and outside-enforced restriction of others' same right. He's excluded himself from his own argument.

That's a problematic position.

 

[SickBoy]

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but here are my thoughts on the whole Dyack situation:

- I think GAF has been unfair to the game based on the videos (especially cutscene videos - who cares?). I don't think it's possible yet to say the game is terrible. That said, from the gameplay videos I've seen I'm kind of leery about the game. Plus, it's not like this is some special treatment applied only to Too Human... although Dyack is amplifying it with his reactions.

- I think Dyack needs to grow thicker skin and learn how to explain himself in a way that doesn't require a three-week reading list. The latter is based on what I'm reading about his comments on 1Up Yours. If he truly understands the concepts that he's discussing, he should be able to explain them and make a sensible argument. For all the unlikeliness of the one-console future, in theory, I like the idea. But his defense of it on 1Up Yours? Awful.

I've been sold and unsold on Too Human many times. The 1Up Yours chatter has been tantalizing at times (like Diablo, awesome), but then I watch videos and it's often a big "meh." And then I think about Shane's taste in games and realize that I don't give a rats ass about some of his favoritest games ever. I actually have a preorder that I may not be able to cancel although I want to (got it through a promo at my game store), and I'm pretty nervous about the quality -- especially since I didn't think that highly of Eternal Darkness or anything else to come out of Silicon Knights. It'll still be a decent deal if I get the game, but I'm hoping to shift that preorder to something else... at least until I can get a real sense of the game... or unless a demo comes out and it's a blast.

 

[Hunter D]

I wish Dennis and everyone on these forums would shut the fuck up and hold off all talk abut this game until it is released. All the bullshit that has gone on here has been killing the hype I've had for this game.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I used to like Dyack. I thought Eternal Darkness was a fun game, as well as LoK. But he really makes it hard to take him seriously when he gets so worked up over what amounts to the rantings of internet geeks.

 

[Zenith]

That's just stupid.

Why are you here then? If you don't care about what other people think why are you even posting? Why are you even reading other people's posts?

All you gotta do is write some shit on MS word and read it yourself since apparently, you don't give a shit, because it's people on the internet.

we have this little thing called the middle ground. why are you portraying the opposite extreme as the only alternative? how do you explain the total lack of people threatening to have the site shut down and yet care enough to post here? think before you post.

These kind of posts add nothing. Doc Evils is another dude that has been running a marathon of insult against Dyack and Too Human, i don't think i've ever seen one piece of constructive criticism from him in relation to Too Human, yet he's always there, laughing at it and ridiculing it. Why? Because he's an attention whore, he wants Dyack to read his posts and get pissed.

might want to turn that magnifying glass on yourself. you do nothing but defend TH by claiming troll and conspiracy theories.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I'm a little behind, but did he just say people need to stand up and be accountable for what they say, then slams NeoGAF mods for revealing it was Jeff Bell?


I'm confused.




lol @ star wars kid story. I believe that.*

 

[Rapping Granny]

how far in the podcast is the meltdown?

 

[Blader]

I'm a little behind, but did he just say people need to stand up and be accountable for what they say, then slams NeoGAF mods for revealing it was Jeff Bell?


I'm confused.

What does Jeff Bell have to do with this?

 

[Kittonwy]

These kind of posts add nothing. Doc Evils is another dude that has been running a marathon of insult against Dyack and Too Human, i don't think i've ever seen one piece of constructive criticism from him in relation to Too Human, yet he's always there, laughing at it and ridiculing it. Why? Because he's an attention whore, he wants Dyack to read his posts and get pissed.

Why would Dyack get pissed if he's as thick skinned like he said he was?

 

[No_Style]

how far in the podcast is the meltdown?

At the end.

 

[EternalGamer]

It's pretty annoying what we do to public figures in our culture. Anytime any of them says or does anything that raises the slightest bit of disagreement, or make a mistake, or display the slightest bit of emotion, we rake them over the coals for it. There is no room left for them to actually be human, to demonstrate fallibility. And so what we get instead of enthusiastic developers is PR agents that repeat safe marketing bullet points. And instead of politicians that discuss the real issues, they repeat slogans and pronounce themselves "for the environment" and "against poverty." But props to Dennis for not just being a PR bot for his product. And for leading a thoughtful discussion about internet culture and gaming.


I did think that, while most of his points are valid, there is more than a bit of a disconnect between discussing corporate culture and discussing internet forums. I think discussing sites like NeoGaf as Non-for-profits is a misnomer. It is more like a very loose social organization. A very, very loose one. In fact, even calling it a "social organization" is a bit like calling the people who scrawl things on the bathroom wall of a gas station part of an "organization." Nevertheless this doesn't undermine his essential criticisms about the way the forum functions, it just means it doesn't line up so neatly with his other ideas about changes in corporate culture (though there certainly are behavioral parallels that might indicate an underlying commonality of some form).

Ultimately, however, I try to remain optimistic that the behavorial patterns demonstrated on this forum are more about the specific demographic that posts here and less a result of the larger social phenomenon of our collective interaction with new communication technology such as the internet.

In short, my mental conception of NeoGaf is that of an illiterate 14 year old boy. I don't think its representative. Hopefully somewhere most of the idiotic posters here have parents, or teachers, or someone around them who can help beat the stupid and the obnoxious out of them before they reach true adulthood. But regardless, it's not something Denis, or 1up, or even the mods at this site, can do for them. It takes real world interaction and hopefully they get enough of it so that they don't just evolve into "manchildren" and remain there for entirety of their lives.

 

[Nolan.]

Why would Dyack get pissed if he's as thick skinned like he said he was?

I bet you are going to that party, I am so jealous -_- .

 

[Doc Evils]

I

- I think GAF has been unfair to the game based on the videos (especially cutscene videos - who cares?). I don't think it's possible yet to say the game is terrible. That said, from the gameplay videos I've seen I'm kind of leery about the game. Plus, it's not like this is some special treatment applied only to Too Human... although Dyack is amplifying it with his reactions.

Really? Was you around when Assassins Creed was getting ready to launch? GAF was utterly shitting on the game from video's we had seen and it was pretty much like Too Human.

The only difference between these two games is that Ubisoft didn't get a rep to post on Neo GAF and call everyone out and let the game show it self, why it is good in the first place(well the ads helped too). And you know what happened? Some people ended up liking it, including me and like usual some hated. But the game never looked this bad like Too Human, considering the scale Assassins Creed has.

This is called having no confidence in your product and creating a clever placebo effect so GAF can be blamed if the game ends up being bad.

"Gaf manipulated the reviewers!"

 

[Snowden]

Why does Denis keep calling it "The" NeoGAF...?

You're not fighting the Borg, Denis.

edit: hahahah "I embarrassed kittonwy"

what

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

I don't think anyone is saying he can't. We're just expressing our right to call him dumb for the things he said.

Well lets not forget the main reason he's considered dumb in the first place.

He defended the game his team was working on :lol

 

[WrikaWrek]

we have this little thing called the middle ground. why are you portraying the opposite extreme as the only alternative? how do you explain the total lack of people threatening to have the site shut down and yet care enough to post here? think before you post.

Uh, i was replying to a specific post. Don't twist things by taking them out of context.


might want to turn that magnifying glass on yourself. you do nothing but defend TH by claiming troll and conspiracy theories.

And now you bring on the bullshit, i gave the benefit of the doubt to Too Human during a time it warranted it, and i've highly criticized it as content closer to release has released, because i think it's a poor showing. So uh, no don't try and paint me like that.

Why would Dyack get pissed if he's as thick skinned like he said he was?

Obviously because he isn't man. It's the sort of thing people say "He didn't hurt me"...yeah right.

 

[Dyno]

More game info on Penny Arcade, a summary of the on-line co-op experience.

Verdict: Tycho has less good things to say about the co-op than he did about the SP.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/

It just gets better and better.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

What does Jeff Bell have to do with this?

He says that people say and post things because they can because they're anonymous, and then he says that Jeff Bell got the shaft because he tried to do that and someone posted his email or something and got mad about that.


He just contradicted himself is all.

 

[HK-47]

Was Admiral Viscen perm'd?

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

Kittowny, you could also take a cue about how to be thick skinned

 

[Xenon]

I was wondering how Dennis was going to handle this whole fiasco. But in true Gaston fashion, again he has tried to convince us the his current problem is a greater danger to everyone.

"NeoGaf will make off with your children.
They'lll come after them in the night."

No Dennis, NeoGAF should not reevaluate itself for has transpired here in the last couple weeks. You just need to understand the first rule of Trolls.

DO NOT FEED THEM!

It’s a lesson most people learned in grade school. If people make fun of you and you get upset, they will continue doing it. If you don’t react they get bored and go away. Considering your games subject matter, this oversight is pretty humorous.

 

[SapientWolf]

It's pretty annoying what we do to public figures in our culture. Anytime any of them says or does anything that raises the slightest bit of disagreement, or make a mistake, or display the slightest bit of emotion, we rake them over the coals for it. There is no room left for them to actually be human, to demonstrate fallibility. And so what we get instead of enthusiastic developers is PR agents that repeat safe marketing bullet points. And instead of politicians that discuss the real issues, they repeat slogans and pronounce themselves "for the environment" and "against poverty." But props to Dennis for not just being a PR bot for his product. And for leading a thoughtful discussion about internet culture and gaming.


I did think that, while most of his points are valid, there is more than a bit of a disconnect between discussing corporate culture and discussing internet forums. I think discussing sites like NeoGaf as Non-for-profits is a misnomer. It is more like a very loose social organization. A very, very loose one. In fact, even calling it a "social organization" is a bit like calling the people who scrawl things on the bathroom wall of a gas station part of an "organization." Nevertheless this doesn't undermine his essential criticisms about the way the forum functions, it just means it doesn't line up so neatly with his other ideas about changes in corporate culture (though there certainly are behavioral parallels that might indicate an underlying commonality of some form).

Ultimately, however, I try to remain optimistic that the behavorial patterns demonstrated on this forum are more about the specific demographic that posts here and less a result of the larger social phenomenon of our collective interaction with new communication technology such as the internet.

In short, my mental conception of NeoGaf is that of an illiterate 14 year old boy. I don't think its representative. Hopefully somewhere most of the idiotic posters here have parents, or teachers, or someone around them who can help beat the stupid and the obnoxious out of them before they reach true adulthood. But regardless, it's not something Denis, or 1up, or even the mods at this site, can do for them. It takes real world interaction and hopefully they get enough of it so that they don't just evolve into "manchildren" and remain there for entirety of their lives.

This sounds like something Dyack would say, and for all it's condescending pretentiousnesses, it's little better than trolling. The only difference being a public figure makes is that he gets a 100k post thread full of criticism instead of a single page locked thread full of cat gifs.

 

[Snowden]

Garnett's final thoughts... "How much does this matter?" :lol

Much respect, G.man

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Garnett's final thoughts... "How much does this matter?" :lol

Yeah that made me laugh too. Garnett did really well in that segment I think.

 

[Haunted]

Was Admiral Viscen perm'd?

He emigrated to one of the GAF reject forums anyway.

 

[schuelma]

He emigrated to one of the GAF reject forums anyway.

Really? He was one of my favorite posters

 

[Combine]

More game info on Penny Arcade, a summary of the on-line co-op experience.

Verdict: Tycho has less good things to say about the co-op than he did about the SP.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/

It just gets better and better.

Yet, its still very positive:

The trouble is that with the story hooks excised, the hole is so big that simply adding another player doesn't balance the sheet. I said in the last post that Silicon Knights games are comprised of a three pillar system, and one of them is just gone in this mode of play. There isn't a lot of UI reinforcement for the co-op experience - there's a fairly mild hit-point bar in the corner, and that's it: no map, no player markers. It's really just adding another person into the single-player campaign, only the campaign has been removed, and everything takes place in some vacuum pocket universe where there is only battle. Though I guess that is pretty Norse.

What I like about cooperative games are the moments where I see a teammate doing something incredible. This isn't limited to two-player games by any means: when I see Kiko crest the middle in Valhalla, ruined cyborgs at his feet and the coveted Spartan Laser on his shoulder, the pride is very real. Smaller scale, the things I've seen in Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory co-op still rank as some of the best moments of my parallel, electronic life. Too Human has those moments, as well: there is a way to kill larger enemies using a small minigame, and it's something that looks alright when you're the one doing it but thoroughly invigorating when you're watching someone else. It was gratifying to finally show someone the equipment I'd earned, which gave those accomplishments heft. And they've cranked up the enemy spawns so that they are now sufficient to kill two gods - there's plenty to do, and when someone swings in with a good save or knocks an enemy off the map it feels good no matter who is doing it. But I really want more.

His main critiques are the removal of the story and the fact that he would like to see more.

 

[Snowden]

Yeah that made me laugh too. Garnett did really well in that segment I think.

It just really puts it into perspective.

NeoGAF is a company? What

edit: Oh lord, he really is going to blame NeoGAF for bad reviews. Amazing.

 

[HK-47]

He emigrated to one of the GAF reject forums anyway.

So he was perm'd? I know which site he posts on right now, but thats not what I was asking

 

[Kinitari]

Money only exists in peoples minds.

Fucking... whats this stuff in my hand then?

 

[BocoDragon]

It's pretty annoying what we do to public figures in our culture. Anytime any of them says or does anything that raises the slightest bit of disagreement, or make a mistake, or display the slightest bit of emotion, we rake them over the coals for it. There is no room left for them to actually be human, to demonstrate fallibility. And so what we get instead of enthusiastic developers is PR agents that repeat safe marketing bullet points. And instead of politicians that discuss the real issues, they repeat slogans and pronounce themselves "for the environment" and "against poverty." But props to Dennis for not just being a PR bot for his product. And for leading a thoughtful discussion about internet culture and gaming.


I did think that, while most of his points are valid, there is more than a bit of a disconnect between discussing corporate culture and discussing internet forums. I think discussing sites like NeoGaf as Non-for-profits is a misnomer. It is more like a very loose social organization. A very, very loose one. In fact, even calling it a "social organization" is a bit like calling the people who scrawl things on the bathroom wall of a gas station part of an "organization." Nevertheless this doesn't undermine his essential criticisms about the way the forum functions, it just means it doesn't line up so neatly with his other ideas about changes in corporate culture (though there certainly are behavioral parallels that might indicate an underlying commonality of some form).

Ultimately, however, I try to remain optimistic that the behavorial patterns demonstrated on this forum are more about the specific demographic that posts here and less a result of the larger social phenomenon of our collective interaction with new communication technology such as the internet.

In short, my mental conception of NeoGaf is that of an illiterate 14 year old boy. I don't think its representative. Hopefully somewhere most of the idiotic posters here have parents, or teachers, or someone around them who can help beat the stupid and the obnoxious out of them before they reach true adulthood. But regardless, it's not something Denis, or 1up, or even the mods at this site, can do for them. It takes real world interaction and hopefully they get enough of it so that they don't just evolve into "manchildren" and remain there for entirety of their lives.

Some public figures also display behaviour that makes them beloved beyond all reason... Just not Dyack.

 

[Shawnwhann]

Oh Denis....

It's quite a shame that Too Human has a high likelihood of being remembered for all this nasty preamble instead of the actual game itself. While you try to vilify the GAFs of the world for what will potentially be a flop, I think having a nice long look in the mirror is warranted when you analyze where it all went downhill...

 

[EternalGamer]

This sounds like something Dyack would say, and for all it's condescending pretentiousnesses, it's little better than trolling. The only difference being a public figure makes is that he gets a 100k post thread full of criticism instead of a single page locked thread full of cat gifs.

Dude, have you read the replies in this very topic? Most of the people here couldn't even be bothered to try to follow his argument before responding. I guess I can give people the benefit of doubt that they are actually more intelligent than the way they are presenting themselves, but then I simply need to ammend my statement to the community acting like an iliterate 14 year old rather than it actually being one. If you think the majority of people on this forum act like mature, intelligent adults then your concept of what constituites "mature" and "intelligent" is completely skewered.

 

[Snowden]

"You need to think about these things before you do them"

good advice Denis

 

[minkydash]

He says that people say and post things because they can because they're anonymous, and then he says that Jeff Bell got the shaft because he tried to do that and someone posted his email or something and got mad about that.


He just contradicted himself is all.

I think he still has a point, even if it is a slight contradiction. Out of all the mudslinging that happened with that situation, Jeff Bell was the only person that was outed there. He responded to a bunch of people who was openly mocking him, and he was the one who had their identity revealed, not everybody else. Again, we could say "he's a public figure, it goes with the job", and "he shouldn't have used his freaking last name for his user name", and I think those are both valid points, but still, it's hard to argue against the fact that the situation was not handled evenly.

 

[Jinfash]

seriously denis, first epic and now GAF?
stop being so childish, man up and if your game flops own up to it and take some blame for god's sake.

EDIT: i just wanna know if i'm the only one who thinks that (after all that has been shown) that people are actually EASY on it, and that there are a lot of hopefuls and fans out there that still see the cup half full?

 

[El-Suave]

Dyack's rationale for releasing a nearly complete preview version this early - hoping reviewers would play the game for two months before they're ready to review - is highly fatuous as well. The game would need to be more than awesome to grab any professional (or average gamer) for that long. Not even taking into account that E3 and all the other events are around the corner with lots of work and maybe new games to cover I would imagine.

Revealing that a user lives close to SK HQ is also a bit paradox while he's talking about Jeff Bell and rules in general.

 

[White Man]

That was the first 1up-related thing I've listened to since the Che days. That was pretty good. I think you guys should bring Dyack in every week as a sort of Howard Beale-esque videogame industry prophet.

 

[BocoDragon]

Cut the illiterate 14 year old boy crap. If anything this forum is often pseudo-intellectual and overly analytical.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Kittonwy you must go to the launch party and troll the game in person. :lol

 

[Snowden]

Denis's wrap-up just boggles my brain... why is there any media at all if they only thing you're supposed to respond to is playing the game.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, for fuck's sake.

 

[Jinko]

It's pretty annoying what we do to public figures in our culture. Anytime any of them says or does anything that raises the slightest bit of disagreement, or make a mistake, or display the slightest bit of emotion, we rake them over the coals for it. There is no room left for them to actually be human, to demonstrate fallibility. And so what we get instead of enthusiastic developers is PR agents that repeat safe marketing bullet points. And instead of politicians that discuss the real issues, they repeat slogans and pronounce themselves "for the environment" and "against poverty." But props to Dennis for not just being a PR bot for his product. And for leading a thoughtful discussion about internet culture and gaming.


I did think that, while most of his points are valid, there is more than a bit of a disconnect between discussing corporate culture and discussing internet forums. I think discussing sites like NeoGaf as Non-for-profits is a misnomer. It is more like a very loose social organization. A very, very loose one. In fact, even calling it a "social organization" is a bit like calling the people who scrawl things on the bathroom wall of a gas station part of an "organization." Nevertheless this doesn't undermine his essential criticisms about the way the forum functions, it just means it doesn't line up so neatly with his other ideas about changes in corporate culture (though there certainly are behavioral parallels that might indicate an underlying commonality of some form).

Ultimately, however, I try to remain optimistic that the behavorial patterns demonstrated on this forum are more about the specific demographic that posts here and less a result of the larger social phenomenon of our collective interaction with new communication technology such as the internet.

In short, my mental conception of NeoGaf is that of an illiterate 14 year old boy. I don't think its representative. Hopefully somewhere most of the idiotic posters here have parents, or teachers, or someone around them who can help beat the stupid and the obnoxious out of them before they reach true adulthood. But regardless, it's not something Denis, or 1up, or even the mods at this site, can do for them. It takes real world interaction and hopefully they get enough of it so that they don't just evolve into "manchildren" and remain there for entirety of their lives.

Nice post

 

[SapientWolf]

Dude, have you read the replies in this very topic? Most of the people here couldn't even be bothered to try to follow his argument before responding. I guess I can give people the benefit of doubt that they are actually more intelligent than the way they are presenting themselves, but then I simply need to ammend my statement to the community acting like an iliterate 14 year old rather than it actually being one. If you think the majority of people on this forum act like mature, intelligent adults then your concept of what constituites "mature" and "intelligent" is completely skewered.

If you want to see illiterate 14 year olds go post at youtube. I think mature and intelligent means not resorting to ad hominem when your position becomes untenable.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Denis's wrap-up just boggles my brain... why is there any media at all if they only thing you're supposed to respond to is playing the game.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, for fuck's sake.

Why not? It's a fucking cake. What else am I gonna do with it?

(I just watched a Zero Punctuation with this phrase sorta, and felt like using it )

 

[SMZC]

I've just listened to it, and this thread's title is taken way out of context. And I actually agree with many of the things Dyack touches upon throughout the podcast.

 

[TheClimaxan]

Biting the hand that feeds = awesome PR! Keep it up man yeah!

 

[DenogginizerOS]

That's because you read his posts, and because you care about them. If you're interested in the game, you're interested in the game. Bleszinski could come here and rant like an idiot for months, I would buy Gears2 anyway - the same way I nevermind Denis' behavior and just care about how Too Human will turn out. Don't make excuses for yourself, don't pretend you care about Too Human. Most of the people who mock the man and his work don't give a shit about the game at all and hope it'll bomb.

I just don't care for his attitude. Whether or not I buy a game is 99.9% unassociated with the persons who made the game. But in this case, a very unique case, I have seen this game and its creator get a lot of virtual ink and most of it is essentially an internet pissing contest between an egotistical game creator and the multitude of personalities found on internet boards such as this. But rather than shut up and let his game do the talking, he has taken all this too personally and in some areas stepped down to the gutter and and thrown a lot of bombs towards people that up until now didn't care. But this guy is on some kind of Don Quixote crusade to take down a person's right to free speech and his attitude (not opinions) smacks a bit of the brand of self-righteousness that I associate with another internet boob - Jack Thompson.