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Destiny 2 PC Aim Assist Needs to be FIXED
- Thread starter Strakt
- Start date
Soulblighter31
Banned
When XCom 2 released, and it was pc only without pad suport, at the point when it had 900 000 copies sold, the topic with controller beggars that couldnt play the game with a mouse and just had to had pad suport, was a topic with 400 comments or so.
It seems beyond absurd to me to even contemplate that on a computer there would be something other than the tinniest, minuscule percentage of people coming from console background that can only play with pads.
How many users are playing LOL each month? 100 million in 2016? How many Crossfire? Counter Strike? DOTA ? What are they using? The computer's standard peripheral.
More laughable to leave it in PVP
After thinking about this for a moment, I think they have to link aim assist to reduced camera acceleration. Acceleration is the most important difference between controller and mouse players.
They have to add a delay of 2 or 3 seconds between the swap of controller and mouse. This way they will avoid someone abuse the system going between mouse and controller behavior rapidly.
They have to limit the camera acceleration so a mouse masked like a controller will have aim assist but a slow enough acceleration to make the player angry.
They have to block aim assist the moment the game detect left and right buttons or up and down are pressed simultaneously.
They have to add a delay of 2 or 3 seconds between the swap of controller and mouse. This way they will avoid someone abuse the system going between mouse and controller behavior rapidly.
They have to limit the camera acceleration so a mouse masked like a controller will have aim assist but a slow enough acceleration to make the player angry.
They have to block aim assist the moment the game detect left and right buttons or up and down are pressed simultaneously.
This is really what everyone should be focusing on. Cheaters will be an extremely small percentage compared to pad users even with AA enabled and they'll be around regardless. Upsetting what has been Destiny's core audience up until this point wouldn't be a great move.
Also, regarding the sentiment that giving controllers AA hinders the experience for kb/m users... I don't buy it. Your kb/m functions the exact same way regardless. You're just not used to pad being a viable option. But the times they are a-changin' and the days of the PC battle station are falling to the wayside in favor of comfy couch gaming. And putting a plank of wood on your lap for kb/m ain't that comfy. Tons of cool kids are dropping consoles in favor of PC because it's an open platform. It's one that needs to progress in terms of inclusiveness, not stay static.
Hopefully Bungie strives to keep their signature gamefeel on PC. It's the overriding reason why I've never liked kb/m for FPS: it makes every game feel like a re-skin of the one that came before it. But hey, that's just my personal feelings. Bungie will truly know that they succeeded if there's debate over whether the dominant input method is kb/m or pad. Then you've struck the right balance between them.
And no, disabling AA in just pvp wouldn't be an option because then you're basically asking pad players not to play a chunk of the game they've paid for. It wouldn't be fair to ask kb/m players to just stay out of pvp, right? And in terms of matching players with like input devices, I don't recall a circumstance in which fragmenting the player base was a good idea.
PVP will probably (well, definitely) end up a mess in Destiny 2, and that's ok. It was in the original and it was fun because of it for millions of people. If AA gets disabled there's still going to be a dozen more things for a subset of players to bitch about. It's best to just grab a beer, relax, and have fun popping some supers.
Kittehkraken
Member
Staying on target isn't difficult, even with a mouse and keyboard. Unless I personally track the players movement and account for recoil, my shots are not landing. Perhaps the way I move versus others is lessening the impact of the assistance I'm being given.
Lanrutcon
Member
That sounds like too much effort.
Better to just cut the autoaim during PVP modes. Easier to implement and test. More effective to combat to problem. No finetuning required.
If you do have software development experience and know for a fact what can and can't be done, then please explain to me the state of affairs. I already told you that I'm no developer and therefore I'm reluctant to speak in absolutes that something can or cannot be done. Since you are so openly implying that you are more knowledgeable than I presume, then please, (preferably, without using google), explain away.
Both of our experiences matter, I never said that yours doesn't, except you are trying to make mine completely go away (at least in enjoyable manner). Let me explain:
1. You take away AA - you make controller completely useless in PVP, people that prefer to play with it give up on PVP, on game in general or stick to PVE. In effect you just gave certain portion of your playerbase an ultimatum. Play with M/KB or GTFO.
2. You keep AA, monitor the situation with XIM/software and try, if possible to find a way to combat this - you will once in a while encounter a person playing this way and that sucks yes. But you can always quit the match and find another one. You have an alternative. Controller player doesn't.
Better to fuck up a group of players than trying to fix a problem? Great logic!
Every Destiny player played with controller. Every one.
A lot of they will want to play the best version of Destiny 2. Do you think is ok to force them to go mouse+keyboard?
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Response from Bungie:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Pos...&page=0&path=1
Doesn't sound like they're planning to gut it (AA) altogether if they anticipated this reaction.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Pos...&page=0&path=1
Doesn't sound like they're planning to gut it (AA) altogether if they anticipated this reaction.
The futility of arguing with insolence and ignorance like this is insufferable, yet I'm a masochist.
OK - let's have it your way. We'll keep AA exactly as it is today and not cut it from PVP! Great!
Come play me with your pad while I setup my KB+M to use AA and we'll see how fast you quit the game.
We aren't arguing AGAINST pads, we're arguing against the exploitation of AA.
Yet you and others are so close minded that you think people are infringing on your personal choice of controller, because frankly you cannot play the game without the game playing it for you via AA.
No one cares how inept you are on the controller, that's fine - keep being you, I will just instantly dominate you when you rez thanks to the same software you use to play the game.
You scream insolence, ignorance and close-mindedness, all the while failing to realize that by arguing against AA, you are in effect arguing against of usability of controller itself.
I don't even...
I acknowledged that in my post.
Question for you, if I as a player want to play on a banana but require perfect aimbotting to cater to my needs, should I be granted that?
then if you as a pad player can use that same assistance, should you be granted that?
that's all this boils down to.
Lanrutcon
Member
Didn't say better: said easier and more effective at combating cheaters, which is objectively true on both counts.
And when it comes down to numbers: every PC has a mouse and keyboard. Not every PC has a controller. It'll be up to Bungie to run the numbers and see who to piss off. I'll be surprised if they burn their PVP scene in order to accommodate a secondary control scheme.
So...how important is PVP in Destiny? Like, it's an alternate route for gearing, not a required one, right?
texhnolyze
Banned
The only reason this thread got this long is basically this.
This is not /r/pcmasterrace ffs.
how can you first say that AA is so coupled to the USABILITY of the controller experience then be upset when I call you out for using it as a crutch. Pad players NEED AA, I know, when I play FPS games on my console, if I don't have AA it's an uphill battle.
but guess what, I don't play FPS games on a console because I don't think its fit for purpose.
I also don't play RTS games on console.
I also don't play games like the Witcher 3 on KB/M.
It's become completely pointless to debate with you since this is a completely irrational attempt on straw man argument.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
This attitude problem that runs through quite a few (vocal) PC gamers is something that puts people off getting the game on the platform completely. I'd much rather a few people exploit the game than people like yourself get yet another boost to your superiority complex.
Thankfully Bungie seem to not be planning to gut AA outright judging by their response.
Sure buddy, you totally got me on that one. GG.
doughEATER
Member
No, just go with controller on PC with no autoaim and be at a disadvantage because it was their choice.
The problem is of your own creation
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Yup. PCMR bullshit all the way through this thread. It's extremely telling that the fact that recoil is reduced to the point of stupidity on KB&M relative to controllers is not being seen as a problem that 'needs fixing'.
You say I'm ignorant but I'm not even getting it on PC, I just hate poor arguments from people with a poor attitude. Carry on insulting people and pushing out memes though, at least you won't be around the community for long if they do – as they seem to be – keep AA in.
texhnolyze
Banned
The ๖ۜBronx;247474490 said:
"Fuck you, got mine."
There are actually better things to fix right now. Spinach and Moose errors, both tied to certain ISPs and their respective routers (technicolor). It's widespread in EU, mostly in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Austria. Nobody's talking about this, which literally renders the whole game unplayable.
Bungie responds: we will look into it, so hopefully it's fixed by October. What about the console versions, the ones actually releasing in 7 days? This is what they need to fix. People have already payed their digital pre orders way before the beta, now we're screwed with no way to play. And these same people have no problems with any other game, including the first destiny. This is what needs to be a priority.
Bungie responds: we will look into it, so hopefully it's fixed by October. What about the console versions, the ones actually releasing in 7 days? This is what they need to fix. People have already payed their digital pre orders way before the beta, now we're screwed with no way to play. And these same people have no problems with any other game, including the first destiny. This is what needs to be a priority.
The inherent problem of giving controller users aim assist in competitive games (ignoring how easy it is to exploit this system on m+kb), is that the game developer is artificially buffing one set of users with magical assists. This makes any perceived skill gap a completely artificial construct. It is the game developer dictating a "one size fits all" solution to giving parity.
Everyone playing the game will be thinking "was that kill legitimate?", "would it have happened without assists?", "if he is using assists, why shouldn't I?", "lets turn the game into a point and click!".
It pollutes any sense that the playing field is fair.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Just a question. Why are you not as up in arms about the significant reduction in recoil for KB&M? Why is this not something you're outraged about and insulting people over? Oh, right, because that's a non-issue as people playing with a controller aren't kicking up a fuss about it despite negatively affecting them.
The ๖ۜBronx;247474649 said:
Because that is something easily fixed by the dev team that isn't polarizing as reducing or removing AA due to a PC's FPS.
Because that will get resolved, and is confirmed to be a BUG not a FEATURE of the game.
Do you see how this is different? Do you also see how this thread is talking about AA, therefore that is the topic we are talking about?
not this soapbox for you and other pad players to fight against PCMR, it's not a PCMR issue, it's PVP will die because of this feature, regardless of what you play with issue.
Soulblighter31
Banned
The ๖ۜBronx;247474490 said:
If you go to reddit pcmr and talk something bad about controllers they'll all gang up on you. Youd almost think youre on a console forum like gaf. Master Race doesnt doesnt mean what this forum consistently tries to insinuate. Those guys just like higher framerates and post pipcs of their setup. Thats it.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Neither is the exploitation of AA via XIM4 or other methods.
Not fighting against PCMR, just people that have a poor attitude and can't discuss things so vanilla as Aim-Assist without resorting to getting flustered and insulting others. I'll contest a shitty attitude regardless of what peripheral you use.
I'm not referring to the subreddit I'm referring to the subculture that grew around the phrase and is prevalent in many gaming subreddits, particularly /r/games.
The ๖ۜBronx;247474880 said:
FYI - that's not even the heart of the issue anymore, it helps me drive my point, but having higher FPS than you and playing on controller with the current AA means I will be quicker to snap, hold and headshot better than you.
Please read the thread, go slowly and understand the heart of the issue before you bring your PCMR sucks baggage with you.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
As I've said numerous times the main issue I've had is with people exhibiting the attitude of children when discussing such a mundane topic, about a beta, to which the developers have already acknowledged the issue. That's the PCMR that I'm referring to, not people discussing the issue like an adult.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
They have, actually:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Pos...&page=0&path=1
Which has been posted at least twice in this thread, so it makes you look pretty stupid when you keep pushing the "read the thread" narrative.
For the third or fourth time as well: my issue is with those exhibiting the attitude of a child, not those discussing it calmly. That's the PCMR I reference.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
I said they've acknowledged the issue, you said they hadn't. They have. Not sure why you're having such an issue reading when you're telling others to read better themselves.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Oh, you actually were expecting them to fix or action an issue detected in the beta, before the end of the beta. That's rather strange but, alright.
The purpose of a beta is (historically) to detect these issues, which can then be discussed and actioned prior to release or for an early patch. Since most betas are glorified demos these days I can see how you missed that thought.
OriginalPoe
Banned
My apologies for the crappy quality (ipod). But this was taken in PvP using my XB1 controller at 60fps. If you zoom in you will find it must easier to see what is going on.
With my Scout Rifle I get virtually zero tracking. I tried just barely missing his head, and I succeeded. Not he best video I know, but I don't get that making head shot tracking the other videos are showing. If I don't aim for the head, I don't hit it.
One person replied to this as far as I can see.
So, when aiming for the head, the reticle tracks the head? Gee, that makes sense. But it doesn't SNAP to it. People are being hyperbolic in this thread. There is no SNAPPING. There is some aim assist, but there is no SNAPPING. Jebus.
The ๖ۜBronx;247475726 said:
Do you really suffer that mightily from reading comprehension? It could explain yours and others attitude.
No, I do not expect them to fix or action on an issue, but to acknowledge that a fix with a hypothesis is needed is perfectly reasonable.
There are other counter examples of snapping, keep looking through the thread.
The efficacy of the AA is how many FPS you can get in game, higher than 60 is basically snapville.