Support NeoGAF

[Deku Tree]

Hope you're ready to receive hate messages

Lmao

 

[E92 M3]

Here's the way I see it:

Bungie has 3 weapon tiers in the game:

Primary, where ammo is in abundance
Special, where ammo is more scarce
Heavy, where ammo is very rare

In PvP, elements don't mean anything.
In PvE however, they use elemental shields to make their enemies more difficult to kill. And part of the reason they're more difficult to kill is because your weapons with elements - specials and heavies - have less ammo. So your primary is good for unshielded enemies and trash mobs, but that Wizard needs a Fusion Rifle or Machine Gun, which you can't have out all the time.

That dynamic is cool.

Fatebringer and other elemental primaries broke that dynamic by giving you a weapon that could strip through shields AND had an abundance of ammo.

Everyone should understand this. Before Fatebringer's range was nerfed, there was no reason to use anything other than Fatebringer. Having such an obvious choice like that ain't cool.

But the element isn't the problem. When you take away Fatebringer's element, it's still a perfect Hand Cannon. Its base stats were ridiculous (it used to have 13 rounds for the new folks) and it had Outlaw and Firefly. That's god tier shit. When you take away Vision of Confluence's element, it's still a perfectly stable Scout Rifle and it was actually the meta weapon in Crucible after Autos were nerfed. Black Hammer - perfect Sniper. Gjallarhorn - perfect Rocket Launcher.

See a pattern?

All of these weapons were perfect and then putting an element on top made them OP by giving players an obvious choice. A weapon with no tradeoffs is an obvious choice.

An element on a weapon alone however does not make it OP or an obvious choice. Six Dreg Pride is a trash Hand Cannon that barely does anything in PvE, but when I had a Void one drop from Skolas it was my go to PvE Primary for a while. Take away its element and I don't want anything to do with it, but when I heard Skolas was passing out some elemental stuff I checked myself in to see what was up.

Why?

Because I'm playing end-game content to get a weapon - one I can not find anywhere else in the game - to offset that dynamic.

After all that effort, I expect to get some swiggity swooty loot. I want to shoot cool shit, because up to that point, I've been doing the vertical climb with guns that mostly behave the same from one another with slight variations in how well their perks compliment one another. Once I hit that horizontal climb of replaying the same content over and over (and over and over), I want to use a weapon that makes me play differently than how I'd been playing up to that point. For example, instead of only having two weapons to deal with the tough guys, now I have three. I conquered the end-game and now i'm a BAMF looking for more cool shit to shoot.

And that's part of the problem - there weren't really more. There were barely any elemental primaries, and of that pool most of them were garbage. The good ones however were perfect, and that's because of their stats combined with the element. When there is gold among coal, people will go to the gold.

The solution - I think Six Dreg Pride says it all. Don't discontinue elemental primaries, but rather stop making weapons with no tradeoffs (and also, stop giving them low drop rates; i'm not chasing after a doorstopper). Anything that has an element should have a significant tradeoff to balance it out, therefore preventing it from being an obvious choice. Would I run the Raid if that shitty Hand Cannon had Solar damage? Bet your ass I would, but would I use that gun 99% of the time? Hell naw.

Great write-up! I agree 100%.

I have a 312 Eirene and 314 1000 Yard and I prefer the Eirene in Trials. Only drawback is the low aim assist.

Eirene is awesome, used it almost exclusively for Trials. Even got a collateral with it.

 

[robertsan21]

I have a 312 Eirene and 314 1000 Yard and I prefer the Eirene in Trials. Only drawback is the low aim assist.

what roll does it have?

If I could get a Eirene with Faucon scope,Luck in the chamber, quickdraw and unflinching I would love it. is it even possible for an Eirene to have Faucon scope?

 

[deadduck]

yeah I have that one, its ok. It´s no 1000 yard stare with a good roll but still.

It has the impact of the 1kYrd but has really, really low aim assist. The thing people say they want, but always use a high AA sniper instead


(I use aa dirty AA heavy 1kYrd with longview, guerilla and hidden hand)

 

[E92 M3]

It has the impact of the 1kYrd but has really, really low aim assist. The thing people say they want, but always use a high AA sniper instead


(I use aa dirty AA heavy 1kYrd with longview, guerilla and hidden hand)

I didn't notice any difference in AA between 1K and Eirene.

Oh well.

 

[Subtervotion]

Is there any reason to complete the Halloween quests?

 

[Deku Tree]

Is there any reason to complete the Halloween quests?

It seems like all they do is give you more rare masks.. But you can just load up siege of the warmind and after 3 to 4 rounds grinding in that hallway you'll have enough in your bag for a new mask anyway, much quicker.

 

[robertsan21]

It has the impact of the 1kYrd but has really, really low aim assist. The thing people say they want, but always use a high AA sniper instead


(I use aa dirty AA heavy 1kYrd with longview, guerilla and hidden hand)

yeah I have 2 that I switch between.

Longview slr10, gurilla fighter, smallbore/perfect balance, unflinching.

or

Ambush, lifesupport, quickdraw, outlaw

 

[Shito]

Is there any reason to complete the Halloween quests?

None at all, the rewards are abysmal (the same reward as filling up a candy satchel).

 

[HigXx]

Anyone able to help me with the final part of exotic sword quest? The scrubs I matchmake with dont understand you have to wait to kill the Wardens

 

[thuway]

I don't understand how Bungie expects light level 300 people to get to 310 when they give you worthless garbage in the Raid.

 

[mehrmantrout]

Dead Orbit Rank 29 still no ship of any kind and still no bittersteel or nowhere as well as being a massive pain in the arse to rank, the smart loot (they definitely said it for factions) is most definitely not working, same with New Monarchy

A decision has been made and Blops 3 will be purchased Friday, beyond doing a few raids theres nothing left to do nor is it worth battling to get closer to 320 than 310

 

[VE3TRO]

Nightfall was crap again. 285 boots, 310 ghost and 18 strange coins. Won't be bothering in the future unless its a strike with specific loot like the Flayer cloaks or Darkblade helm.

 

[deadduck]

I didn't notice any difference in AA between 1K and Eirene.

Oh well.

You're probably a better sniper than me!

 

[thuway]

Nightfall was crap again. 285 boots, 310 ghost and 18 strange coins. Won't be bothering in the future unless its a strike with specific loot like the Flayer cloaks or Darkblade helm.

They really need to do a better job or giving people things that worth getting.

 

[Shito]

Dead Orbit Rank 29 still no ship of any kind and still no bittersteel or nowhere as well as being a massive pain in the arse to rank, the smart loot (they definitely said it for factions) is most definitely not working, same with New Monarchy.

Faction ships were taken out of my version of the game, as far as I'm concerned.
They are but a collective joke everyone is trying to make on me...
Finally got Revenant the other day, at rank 35...

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

I don't understand how Bungie expects light level 300 people to get to 310 when they give you worthless garbage in the Raid.

You skip normal and go straight to hard, that's how

 

[thuway]

You skip normal and go straight to hard, that's how

The discrimination against us under 310 folks tho :=.

 

[toastyToast]

I don't understand how Bungie expects light level 300 people to get to 310 when they give you worthless garbage in the Raid.

If you're around 300 you're better off doing the hard raid up until daughters

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

The discrimination against us under 310 folks tho :=.

Only at lfg. Avoid like the plague.


Also, infuse 310 exotics to your current gear, you should get to 305+ with ease.

 

[E92 M3]

You're probably a better sniper than me!

I honestly think it just comes down to preference at the end of the day. Some people prefer certain weapons.

 

[Kyoufu]

I am in love with Nightstalker.

Shadowshot, target tracking, enhanced radar, shadestep, orb factory, invis smoke.

Nightstalker is love.

 

[deadduck]

I honestly think it just comes down to preference at the end of the day. Some people prefer certain weapons.

True (I like pulse rifles and Necro, pls don't tell GAF)

 

[X-Frame]

Shadowshot, target tracking, enhanced radar, shadestep, orb factory, invis smoke.

Nightstalker is love.

The Nightstalker really has amazing "neutral game". It is what I wished the Sunbreaker Titan would be, instead we got the opposite with so many of its perks directly boosting or affecting the super.

The Striker remains the Titan subclass with the strongest neutral game, and that is with an abysmal melee skill tree.

 

[Kyoufu]

Dead Orbit Rank 29 still no ship of any kind and still no bittersteel or nowhere as well as being a massive pain in the arse to rank, the smart loot (they definitely said it for factions) is most definitely not working, same with New Monarchy

A decision has been made and Blops 3 will be purchased Friday, beyond doing a few raids theres nothing left to do nor is it worth battling to get closer to 320 than 310

I got my ships around rank 35-39 on New Monarchy and Future War Cult. I'm sure you'll get yours soon.

 

[Kwakye94]

Has anybody ever got the same perk roll to two separate nodes before? I just got the fusion rifle Panta Rhei with two sets of kneepads as its rolls?

 

[Taborcarn]

After last night I'm suddenly swimming in Scout Rifles. I was already using Tlaloc and Hung Jury frequently, then from one Nightfall I both the Treads upon Stars and a 308 Last Extremity. Add to that the Suros ones from last Armsday and this morning, and I just decoded a blue engram into a Not Like the Others. Scouts for days!

 

[Klyka]

Has anybody ever got the same perk roll to two separate nodes before? I just got the fusion rifle Panta Rhei with two sets of kneepads as its rolls?

Well you do need one for each knee.

 

[Carbonox]

If you're around 300 you're better off doing the hard raid up until daughters

I'd go as far as saying that if you're at the low end of the 300 spectrum you're golden for Hard Mode not including Oryx himself. I had no issues even with the Daughters at 302 give or take a level. Really easy Raid if you've got your wits about you....again not including Oryx.

 

[Deku Tree]

The discrimination against us under 310 folks tho :=.

HM KF is fine for a 300-310 in a GAF group up to Oryx, especially if your playing with other 305-310+ players.
And HM will give you much better drops. Avoid LFG if you don't have all the OP stuff yet.

 

[E92 M3]

Really wish I had something to sacrifice for my Sleeper Simulant. It is stuck at 298 and I really want to use it more.

 

[Strangelove77]

The First Curse get.

Did I say that right? The "get" at the end there? Is that right?

 

[LTWood12]

Really wish I had something to sacrifice for my Sleeper Simulant. It is stuck at 298 and I really want to use it more.

It melts Valus this week.

 

[AngerdX]

Hmm probably should try and do HM KF and hope for some drops to push you to 310 or just above.

Also need to get my void exotic sword strike done should help i guess.

 

[Homeboyd]

Really wish I had something to sacrifice for my Sleeper Simulant. It is stuck at 298 and I really want to use it more.

Planning on using it at HM oryx? Think 298 is fine for everything else in the game.

 

[Pachimari]

I'm gonna buy The Taken King today, but I have absolutely no friends who play Destiny. Is it possible, that I can play together with some of you, and get help from this community?

 

[Dynedom]

So is the roll on the Lyudmila-D good this week?

 

[Afrocious]

It melts Valus this week.

ty for this advice

 

[xplicitone]

Here's the way I see it:

Bungie has 3 weapon tiers in the game:

Primary, where ammo is in abundance
Special, where ammo is more scarce
Heavy, where ammo is very rare

In PvP, elements don't mean anything.
In PvE however, they use elemental shields to make their enemies more difficult to kill. And part of the reason they're more difficult to kill is because your weapons with elements - specials and heavies - have less ammo. So your primary is good for unshielded enemies and trash mobs, but that Wizard needs a Fusion Rifle or Machine Gun, which you can't have out all the time.

That dynamic is cool.

Fatebringer and other elemental primaries broke that dynamic by giving you a weapon that could strip through shields AND had an abundance of ammo.

Everyone should understand this. Before Fatebringer's range was nerfed, there was no reason to use anything other than Fatebringer. Having such an obvious choice like that ain't cool.

But the element isn't the problem. When you take away Fatebringer's element, it's still a perfect Hand Cannon. Its base stats were ridiculous (it used to have 13 rounds for the new folks) and it had Outlaw and Firefly. That's god tier shit. When you take away Vision of Confluence's element, it's still a perfectly stable Scout Rifle and it was actually the meta weapon in Crucible after Autos were nerfed. Black Hammer - perfect Sniper. Gjallarhorn - perfect Rocket Launcher.

See a pattern?

All of these weapons were perfect and then putting an element on top made them OP by giving players an obvious choice. A weapon with no tradeoffs is an obvious choice.

An element on a weapon alone however does not make it OP or an obvious choice. Six Dreg Pride is a trash Hand Cannon that barely does anything in PvE, but when I had a Void one drop from Skolas it was my go to PvE Primary for a while. Take away its element and I don't want anything to do with it, but when I heard Skolas was passing out some elemental stuff I checked myself in to see what was up.

Why?

Because I'm playing end-game content to get a weapon - one I can not find anywhere else in the game - to offset that dynamic.

After all that effort, I expect to get some swiggity swooty loot. I want to shoot cool shit, because up to that point, I've been doing the vertical climb with guns that mostly behave the same from one another with slight variations in how well their perks compliment one another. Once I hit that horizontal climb of replaying the same content over and over (and over and over), I want to use a weapon that makes me play differently than how I'd been playing up to that point. For example, instead of only having two weapons to deal with the tough guys, now I have three. I conquered the end-game and now i'm a BAMF looking for more cool shit to shoot.

And that's part of the problem - there weren't really more. There were barely any elemental primaries, and of that pool most of them were garbage. The good ones however were perfect, and that's because of their stats combined with the element. When there is gold among coal, people will go to the gold.

The solution - I think Six Dreg Pride says it all. Don't discontinue elemental primaries, but rather stop making weapons with no tradeoffs (and also, stop giving them low drop rates; i'm not chasing after a doorstopper). Anything that has an element should have a significant tradeoff to balance it out, therefore preventing it from being an obvious choice. Would I run the Raid if that shitty Hand Cannon had Solar damage? Bet your ass I would, but would I use that gun 99% of the time? Hell naw.

Amen Twilight, Amen. We want to chase those Elemental Primaries. The moment I finally got my Solar Jewel, I was stoked out if my mind! It took so many Mercury trips and it made that chest very exciting. The only part that made me LOL was I got it on Xbox (Only went a few times) and not ps4 (main console, went a dozen times).

Even guns like Word of Crota, Abyss Defiant, basically anything NOT Fatebringer or VoC I'd use sometimes in certain situations for those burns. That's how it should be! It's Omnigul again, time to take our Abyss Defiant (when I get to her).

Fair Trade offs and balance. We need them back.

Being a BAMF after all the hours and effort we put is totally how it should be. Not OP, but still wrecking shit.

 

[PuMa]

The First Curse get.

Did I say that right? The "get" at the end there? Is that right?

 

[Deku Tree]

I'm gonna buy The Taken King today, but I have absolutely no friends who play Destiny. Is it possible, that I can play together with some of you, and get help from this community?

Absolutely. There are a lot of people here who you can play with.

 

[PuMa]

So is the roll on the Lyudmila-D good this week?

It needs Counterbalance, but the roll with CB this week is only meh.

 

[Pachimari]

Absolutely. There are a lot of people here who you can play with.

That sounds good. If anyone would like to play with me, and help me out, please don't hesitate to add me on PSN: Anastacio.

 

[Dynedom]

It needs Counterbalance, but the roll with CB this week is only meh.

Hrm. I have 3 Lyud packs. Might hold off then (or just grab Headseeker + Full Auto + Injection Mould, unless it's garbae)

 

[Kyoufu]

I'm gonna buy The Taken King today, but I have absolutely no friends who play Destiny. Is it possible, that I can play together with some of you, and get help from this community?

Depends. If you buy it on PS4, sure.

If you buy it on Xbox then not so much.

 

[silver.tongue]

I'm gonna buy The Taken King today, but I have absolutely no friends who play Destiny. Is it possible, that I can play together with some of you, and get help from this community?

Of course, buddy. Just post here when Looking for a spevific activity.

 

[X-Frame]

Hrm. I have 3 Lyud packs. Might hold off then (or just grab Headseeker + Full Auto + Injection Mould, unless it's garbae)

Headseeker + Counterbalance + Hand-Laid Stock would probably be the god roll.

 

[toastyToast]

Hrm. I have 3 Lyud packs. Might hold off then (or just grab Headseeker + Full Auto + Injection Mould, unless it's garbae)

Get the counter balance one. Full auto is waste and the recoil goes almost a full 45 degrees to the left without CB. Buy another one and hope for this roll at some point.

Headseeker + Counterbalance + Hand-Laid Stock would probably be the god roll.

 

[PuMa]

Are we talking elemental primaries again? Ho hum. I understand the two camps regarding this topic, and I'm firmly with Luke here. It would completely kill my drive to play if they brought back a suite of elemental primaries again. It severely limits the choices you have for viable primary weapons and lessens the importance of your special and heavy weapons. There are so many cool new legendaries out there that I feel I can use now. If we have elemental primaries it becomes no contest. Why even bother with a kinetic? I don't want that.

 

[noomi]

The First Curse get.

Did I say that right? The "get" at the end there? Is that right?

Yes

One of us, one of us!

It melts Valus this week.

Nice, this'll give me an excuse to take it out of the vault for a while. Might actually do some nightfalls this week.... might