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[Waldini]

I'm not sure how much Year 2 you've actually played. Doctrine of Passing is an autorifle and was legit top-tier, able to unseat TLW even. Hand Cannons have made a major comeback since April, with Eyasluna and Finnela's Peril being popular and strong choices. Even Universal Remote is a top-tier choice, which anyone in Year 1 would laugh their ass off at.

Trials of Osiris' Top Guns for July
1) Hand Cannon
2) Scout Rifle
3) Pulse Rifle
4) Auto Rifle
5) Universal Remote

That's literally every weapon class. You know what's not on that list? PDX & Hawksaw. MIDA is #2, but guess what, the last week of July it dropped to #5.

So many guns are viable now. And 6s has even more guns that pop-up, like Answering Chord, Colovalence's Duty, Bad Juju, No Land Beyond, etc.

Year 2 is definitely slower than Year 1, and I get a lot of people don't like that. But year 2 being less diverse than Year 1 is plainly untrue.

(also, your statement that all guns should be viable at all distances is not how the Destiny sandbox has ever worked.)

I ... I don't see how Trials of Osiris as a way to show what weapon class is being used the most. I've played my fair share of ToO. People always pick what is currently THE best weapon available and tend to focus their choice on the map. You are correct that these weapon classes ARE being used though. However, it's the MIDA, PDX/Hawksaw or Doctrine. I barely see anything else. And I know, because when I die I take a look at what weapon the enemy is using but nothing ever suprises me. Sure, there's sometimes a handcannon user, or someone with a different weapon but most of the time they switch back to something more deadly.

And Doctrine overclassing Y2 TLW is pretty easy. A good TLW user can be dangerous but the gun is nowhere where it used to be. All in all, its a matter of personal opinion isn't it?

In the end, it's just a matter of opinion. I find Y2 to be lacking in terms of weapon choice. Something Y1 did better. I see Y1 as being much more fun than Y2. Y1 contained more weapons that were actually pretty good. Y2 has a much smaller pool of weapons that are effective. You can still use a weapon from each of the weapon classes but the choice you have is much-much smaller than it was in Y1 IMO.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

You do know that none of those were viable at the same time right, except for the exoctic hand cannons. Mythoclast was viable for only a few weeks. Devil You Know & Shadow Price were fun but never the top-tier meta. There was no reason to use them over the exotic hand cannons.



I'm not sure how much Year 2 you've actually played. Doctrine of Passing is an autorifle and was legit top-tier, able to unseat TLW even. Hand Cannons have made a major comeback since April, with Eyasluna and Finnela's Peril being popular and strong choices. Even Universal Remote is a top-tier choice, which anyone in Year 1 would laugh their ass off at.

Trials of Osiris' Top Guns for July
1) Hand Cannon
2) Scout Rifle
3) Pulse Rifle
4) Auto Rifle
5) Universal Remote

That's literally every weapon class. You know what's not on that list? PDX & Hawksaw. MIDA is #2, but guess what, the last week of July it dropped to #5.

So many guns are viable now. And 6s has even more guns that pop-up, like Answering Chord, Colovalence's Duty, Bad Juju, No Land Beyond, etc.

Year 2 is definitely slower than Year 1, and I get a lot of people don't like that. But year 2 being less diverse than Year 1 is plainly untrue.

(also, your statement that all guns should be viable at all distances is not how the Destiny sandbox has ever worked.)

That's odd, I can't see how Answering Chord gets on there ahead of Shadow Price. I've used both a ton and gave up Answering for SP.

Thanks for talking about Hawksaw though guys...I'd been sitting on one kind of ignoring it, just started using it, and instantly my score went up like 4-500 in my last 3 matches. It seems like it has crazy tracking and kind of stuns people trying to shoot at me?

Honestly, I guess I'm not as down on PvP as the rest of you. During year 1 everyone was complaining about weapon variety, and personally I see a ton more of it during IB and Trials than when literally everyone was using an exotic HC. I mean there are serious discussions about freaking Universal Remote being too good. That's kind of cool in a way.

Honestly, take the complaints about PvP with a huge grain of salt. For one, whining about PvP has been a part of every shooter community I've ever been a part of. There's always some "unfair" weapon or tactic that someone thinks "everyone" is using. For another, look at the fact that everyone complaining is contradicting one another about why it's broken and awful. If something were truly one-sidedly dominant, everyone would know about it.

Maybe things are different for me because I'm playing in Asia, but the idea that there are only a few weapons being used does not jibe with anything I'm seeing. As someone who sucks and dies a lot, I get to see a pretty good overview of what everyone's carrying, lol. Some are more popular than others, but it's rarely the same thing twice.

 

[Pilgor]

Vendor weapons don't reroll weekly, they are static until Bugnie decides to change them.

Also, if you can't find anyone for the sword, the strike does have matchmaking, although it can be difficult to work with randoms who need a different sword than you.

Thanks! I'll have to set my sights on another primary then. Any recommendations?

I'm just getting back into Destiny and need to do that also. I'm down to help. I'm in Pacific time and able to run it any time after 7PM tonight. My warlock's 309LL.

Sounds good. My PSN is Rogo on PS4.

 

[igordennis]

I mean there are serious discussions about freaking Universal Remote being too good. That's kind of cool in a way.

Nah fam. Thats not cool.

Bring back the thorn days and all its bullshit and it would be bliss. Btw you can probably find close to 100 posts about me ranting about the thorn back in its prime and yes i would still take it back because pvp was simply better.

 

[Waldini]

That's odd, I can't see how Answering Chord gets on there ahead of Shadow Price. I've used both a ton and gave up Answering for SP.

Thanks for talking about Hawksaw though...I'd been sitting on one, just started using it, and instantly my score went up like 4-500 in my last 3 matches. It seems like it has crazy tracking and kind of stuns people trying to shoot at me?

Honestly, take the complaints about PvP with a huge grain of salt. For one, whining about PvP has been a part of every shooter community I've ever been a part of. There's always some "unfair" weapon or tactic that someone thinks "everyone" is using. For another, look at the fact that everyone complaining is contradicting one another about why they think it's broken and awful.

Maybe things are different for me because I'm playing in Asia, but the idea that there are only a few weapons being used does not jibe with anything I'm seeing. As someone who sucks and dies a lot, I get to see a pretty good overview of what everyone's carrying, lol. Some are more popular than others, but it's rarely the same thing twice.

I had the Answering Chord but gave it up for Shadow Price. Still depends on the roll though. The Hawksaw is a great weapon in PvP. Same goes for the (if you have a decent roll) PDX. If you saved a Gunsmith package there's a damn good one you can pick up.

Anyway. There's always people who complain about certain weapons. Bungie, unfortunately, listens and nerfs most of them to shit. God, I remember the first TLW nerf. It got destroyed. Felt like shooting air. In the end, it all depends how good someone is with a weapon. When I see people going absolute ape-shit with a MIDA Multitool or TLW I have nothing but respect for them. Those weapons take some time to get used to.

Again, Y1 vs Y2 is different for everyone. IMO, Y1 was much more fun thanks to the variaty you had in classes. You could pick any gun, do well with it depending on your play-style (yes, you could go negative with Thorn). Y2 feels "boring". Sure, you have great weapons in all classes but you'd still lose to someone with a DIS47, PDX45, Hawksaw or MIDA.

Still.. I understand why certain people aren't willing to give other weapons a chance. Why would you change from the weapon you are using for weeks/months to something you can't "control"? Just a matter of perspective I guess?

Nah fam. Thats not cool. Bring back the thorn days and all its bullshit and it would be bliss. Btw you can probably find close to 100 posts about me ranting about the thorn back in its prime and yes i would still take it back because pvp was simply better.

Despite Thorn being an absolute monster in PVP Y1 and ensuring a shit-ton of rage ... it was STILL fun to play PvP. The Universal Remote right now ... is an inconsistent piece of crap. Reminds me of the good ol' Fellwinters Lie. God, I miss my sniper. O .. and that Iron Banner Sniper (forgot the name) ... ToO Y1 was glorious. You'd hear them triggering the final round and you'd know that if they hit you in the toe you'd be dead.

Year 1 : "What!? With that weapon? Nice shot ... damn" or "ffffffffucking Thorn!"
Year 2 : "O. Mida" "O. PDX" "O. Hawksaw" "O. WTF!? An handcannon!?"

 

[Frenden]

I ... I don't see how Trials of Osiris as a way to show what weapon class is being used the most. I've played my fair share of ToO. People always pick what is currently THE best weapon available and tend to focus their choice on the map. You are correct that these weapon classes ARE being used though. However, it's the MIDA, PDX/Hawksaw or Doctrine. I barely see anything else. And I know, because when I die I take a look at what weapon the enemy is using but nothing ever suprises me. Sure, there's sometimes a handcannon user, or someone with a different weapon but most of the time they switch back to something more deadly.

And Doctrine overclassing Y2 TLW is pretty easy. A good TLW user can be dangerous but the gun is nowhere where it used to be. All in all, its a matter of personal opinion isn't it?

In the end, it's just a matter of opinion. I find Y2 to be lacking in terms of weapon choice. Something Y1 did better. I see Y1 as being much more fun than Y2. Y1 contained more weapons that were actually pretty good. Y2 has a much smaller pool of weapons that are effective. You can still use a weapon from each of the weapon classes but the choice you have is much-much smaller than it was in Y1 IMO.

Have you not played since 2.2 dropped? I don't agree with most of your assertions.

 

[Kyoufu]

*dusts off shoulders* Too Easy

It's actually a fun NF. I just used Mida the whole time.

I started using Mida in PVE yesterday. I was impressed.

 

[Waldini]

Have you not played since 2.2 dropped? I don't agree with most of your assertions.

I stopped Destiny in november 2015. Turned it back on once the april update hit. So yeah ..

... and you don't have to agree Like I've said. Matter of opinion. You have yours, I have mine. No need to enforce my opinion on you (or vice-versa)

 

[JohnOfMars]

I ... I don't see how Trials of Osiris as a way to show what weapon class is being used the most. I've played my fair share of ToO. You are correct that these weapon classes ARE being used. However, it's the MIDA, PDX/Hawksaw or Doctrine. I barely see anything else. And I know, because when I die I take a look at what weapon the enemy is using but nothing ever suprises me.

And Doctrine overclassing Y2 TLW is pretty easy. A good TLW user can be dangerous but the gun is nowhere where it used to be. All in all, its a matter of personal opinion isn't it?

Take a look at Y1 regular Crucible and compare that to Y2. Dont compare it to ToO.


I see Y1 as being much more fun than Y2. Y1 contained more weapons that were actually pretty good. Y2 has a much smaller pool of weapons that are effective.

I picked Trials of Osiris because it's the playlist that has the most try-hards where the meta is strongest, and thus the fewest options are seen as viable. If a gun can make it there, then it can make it anywhere. I then listed popular guns in the Control playlist to show what's popular and viable in 6s. I can also point out that popular doesn't always = the most success and guns like Tounela & Cocytus are credited by Bungie as being able to raise a player's K/D. Your argument was that Year 2 Crucible is nothing but pulses and MIDA and I presented data showing that's false. Doctrine is still strong. TLW is #1 or #2 in every playlist save Clash. So clearly Hand cannons are viable, too. These stats are available for you too.

Year 1 there was no reason not to be using TLW or Thorn. Legendary hand cannons were in a good spot, but were hopelessly outclassed by the exotic hand cannons. Look at this thread from Year 1 were people were discussing the best primaries. Or this one. Or this one. Or this one about how bad Auto Rifles are. Every guide and roll discussion is TLW/Thorn. Thankfully Hopscotch came on the scene late, but let's be honest, it was for hipsters (like me).

Year 2 has a ton of viable options and as I hope I've shown with data, more than Year 1. I can't and won't argue with you about fun. That's subjective. But Year 2 has a ton of options. Heck, I've gone flawless with Hung Jury.

 

[spyder_ur]

Honestly, take the complaints about PvP with a huge grain of salt. For one, whining about PvP has been a part of every shooter community I've ever been a part of. There's always some "unfair" weapon or tactic that someone thinks "everyone" is using. For another, look at the fact that everyone complaining is contradicting one another about why it's broken and awful. If something were truly one-sidedly dominant, everyone would know about it.

Maybe things are different for me because I'm playing in Asia, but the idea that there are only a few weapons being used does not jibe with anything I'm seeing. As someone who sucks and dies a lot, I get to see a pretty good overview of what everyone's carrying, lol. Some are more popular than others, but it's rarely the same thing twice.

Oh I do take them with a grain of salt. You hear balance thrown around a lot here (with some good reason), but I really think the biggest problem with PvP is just a bit of staleness. We've been playing the same maps and modes with the same guns for months - frustration and fatigue sets in a little easier.

The order for types of guns used in Trials was posted above and I'm sure it's even more diverse in IB and regular crucible, but I'd also add that in 4-5 Trials cards this weekend I saw every single subclass multiple times - I can't say that's always been the case in this game.

So the highest levels of competitive play in the game have decent variety of weapons and classes. Destiny PvP isn't perfect by any means, but I think it's OK to give Bungie a little credit in achieving that.

Nah fam. Thats not cool.

Bring back the thorn days and all its bullshit and it would be bliss. Btw you can probably find close to 100 posts about me ranting about the thorn back in its prime and yes i would still take it back because pvp was simply better.

In what way did you find it better? Because I wonder if Thorn was really the reason you considered it better.

I also think it's important to realize that the way you (and a lot of other top-tier DGaf players, many of whom are the loudest voices on the 'broken' PvP) view PvP is different from the way us average players experience it.

That's not to say those views aren't important and that the game shouldn't try to accomoddate and challenge all skill levels.

 

[XenoRaven]

HC meta was definitely a Devil You Know vs Devil You Don't Know situation.

Yes I did that on purpose.

 

[Tjamato88]

So wait what gun should I be using?

I've been maining the SUROS ARI-45 in PVP and PVE. I like it but I don't love it. I also have MIDA, Hawksaw, Zhalo Supercell, Red Spectre and the NL Shadow 71X.

 

[Mindlog]

The sweatiest tryhards don't have a very high opinion of the trials gametype.
It is curious why so many of them have returned to Destiny streaming recently.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

So wait what gun should I be using?

One you like.

No gun is effective in all situations even if it feels like other people's pulse rifles are. Pick one and play to its strengths. Change to a different gun if circumstances change.

 

[Tjamato88]

I might switch back to MIDA after I infuse it but I need to find a legendary rocket launcher that's decent because right now I'm running with the exotic Truth.

Are there any good ones available from the vendors this week?

 

[mehrmantrout]

The sweatiest tryhards don't have a very high opinion of the trials gametype.
It is curious why so many of them have returned to Destiny streaming recently.

The OW console tourney scene hasn't really taken off and there's a $1k Destiny tourney this weekend (UKBoyz will show the world whose boss, again)

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Man, this Hawksaw is legit. My teams just had three dominations in a row

Spoiler

not because of me.

And I'm miraculously getting Ks above 1.

As if it were a sign from the universe, I got an Infinite Lines robe drop with pulse rifle reload perk. Clearly this was meant to be.

So wait what gun should I be using?

I've been maining the SUROS ARI-45 in PVP and PVE. I like it but I don't love it. I also have MIDA, Hawksaw, Zhalo Supercell, Red Spectre and the NL Shadow 71X.

Whichever one you feel most comfortable with, depending on your skills, weaknesses, preferred range & play style, etc. Going by the stats, I should be using Last Word but I suck with it. I'd much rather use an auto or pulse rifle to make up for my poor aim.

 

[Tjamato88]

Can you still reroll weapons?

 

[Frenden]

No.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Wait why is Breezy buying Rise of Iron when he hates Destiny so much? Did I miss a bunch of mea culpas?

I dont hate Destiny and youll never find me say anything like that.(what I have disliked are the balance decisions, mainly the removal of elemental primaries and the pvp/pve being balanced together)

And my love for Thorn can topple nations.

 

[stay gold]

Can you still reroll weapons?

You can still reroll weapons you have from House of Wolves. Year 2 stuff cannot be rerolled, unfortunately.

 

[darkistheway]

For me the problem with PVP right now is TtK is just a bit too slow.

Two burst pulse rifles are dead.
Bullet hoses got the nerf.
Even shotguns and snipers (as useful as they are) have been affected by the ammo drop changes.

It makes for a slower game. HoW era pvp was fast and dangerous. And awesome.

 

[Kyoufu]

For me the problem with PVP right now is TtK is just a bit too slow.

Two burst pulse rifles are dead.
Bullet hoses got the nerf.
Even shotguns and snipers (as useful as they are) have been affected by the ammo drop changes.

It makes for a slower game. HoW era pvp was fast and dangerous. And awesome.

Good riddance to sniper shotguns and Thorn tbh.

 

[blue_phazon]

For me the problem with PVP right now is TtK is just a bit too slow.

Two burst pulse rifles are dead.
Bullet hoses got the nerf.
Even shotguns and snipers (as useful as they are) have been affected by the ammo drop changes.

It makes for a slower game. HoW era pvp was fast and dangerous. And awesome.

Slower TTK is waaay better. I don't like pvp shooters where you're dead just because the other player spots you first

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Anyone interested in running a fresh CoE sigil?

Hit me up

 

[Frenden]

Slower TTK is waaay better. I don't like pvp shooters where you're dead just because the other player spots you first

The OG ttk during HoW was still slower than, say, CoD. I prefer that to what we have now, which feels about one shot too slow in many primary archetypes.

I don't like insta kills ala CoD, but I'm not crazy about how much the game has slowed either. I feel like HoW (minus Thorn and TLW ADS bonus damage glitches) was peak Destiny PvP.

Strong primaries keep secondaries in check. Weak primaries lead to a meta of hardscopers and shotties without hard counters. (The the recent TLW buff has restored some of its ability to take down shotties if you are smart about baiting them and backpedalling.)

 

[Rehsa]

Exclusive look at year two thorn.

Look at that clown getting sniped at the top of the feed

Spoiler

the usual when I join a GAF train lol

 

[Glory Fades]

This page makes me think that at some point during this 10 year cycle, all weapons will simply do no damage, and all suck. At least thats the trend we are headed to.

 

[Number45]

Weekly crucible bounties just gave me a legendary. So it IS possible...

 

[Frenden]

This page makes me think that at some point during this 10 year cycle, all weapons will simply do no damage, and all suck. At least thats the trend we are headed to.

I am all in favor of strong primaries. Thorn, in particular, is a mistake. It's trash: the gun.

-2 recovery, DoT ticks telling you where the target ran to, way more range than any other hand cannon in its impact archetype, etc. Just dumb.

 

[darthbob]

Almost forgot, you can add TTK border to my name in The Hall of Guardian Lords

Congrats! You definitely earned it.

 

[EloquentM]

This year one dick sucking contest needs to stop. Both years have their problems.

 

[todd360]

Almost forgot, you can add TTK border to my name in The Hall of Guardian Lords

I didn't realize this was a thing. Can I get an update too? Can my avatar also be changed to my current avatar instead of the kitten from the gamercat comic?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I am all in favor of strong primaries. Thorn, in particular, is a mistake. It's trash: the gun.

-2 recovery, DoT ticks telling you where the target ran to, way more range than any other hand cannon in its impact archetype, etc. Just dumb.

mhm yessssss can't wait for Thorn to come back. So good.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

mhm yessssss can't wait for Thorn to come back. So good.

You're going to be one disappointed dude, I can already tell.

 

[mehrmantrout]

This is yr2

29 kills in a normal game of clash, 2 with a primary :d

 

[Frenden]

mhm yessssss can't wait for Thorn to come back. So good.

You'd have to play the game to use Thorn. I haven't seen you on since HoW. You can't wait to never use a gun in a game you never play. Check.

You just post trollish nonsense to the OT. Breezy, pls.

 

[Falifax]

You know what, put me in the camp that's excited for the Thorn making a comeback. I remember having a blast using it in Trials, so I can see myself using it exclusively in Y3 Crucible.

 

[todd360]

You'd have to play the game to use Thorn. I haven't seen you on since HoW. You can't wait to never use a gun in a game you never play. Check.

You just post trollish nonsense to the OT. Breezy, pls.

.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You'd have to play the game to use Thorn. I haven't seen you on since HoW. You can't wait to never use a gun in a game you never play. Check.

You just post trollish nonsense to the OT. Breezy, pls.

Obviously you haven't been looking hard enough, truly you are the blind being lead by the one eyed man.

Last time I played was about a month ago, starting a new hunter for shits and giggles. I'm sure I posted about it in this thread here or there, but y'know......lack of braille might make it hard <_<;

 

[Frenden]

I played with it some last night. Just for science. In it's current state, I still prefer TLW or Luna. Then again, I preferred TLW and Hawkmoon over Thorn in Y1, so y'all's mmv.

 

[XenoRaven]

Liking one thing better than another isn't "dick sucking", it's personal preference.

 

[Trakan]

I played with it some last night. Just for science. In it's current state, I still prefer TLW or Luna. Then again, I preferred TLW and Hawkmoon over Thorn in Y1, so y'all's mmv.

I preferred TLW too, but Thorn hasn't been nerfed like TLW or Hawkmoon were, right? The DOT got changed drastically as well as the actual damage it does due to blanket barrel nerfs, but I think otherwise it pretty much behaves the same way it did in Y1 right?

It's odd because it was the only truly broken one out of the 3.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Just like when I talk about making the Thorn strong, I'm being facetious. I know the Thorn was broken, I know it was originally overbuffed wayback when. It's a running joke that I keep talking about how the Thorn should be the baseline, and how the Thorn was balanced.

Great. Can the "joke" be over now? I'm glad you find antagonizing folks here about Thorn amusing and funny. We got it.

I am all for real discussion on the topic, but come on. You're just trying to get a rise out of people. You like the Thorn. We know. Please, can we move on.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Great. Can the "joke" be over now? I'm glad you find antagonizing folks here about Thorn amusing and funny. We got it.

I am all for real discussion on the topic, but come on. You're just trying to get a rise out of people. You like the Thorn. We know. Please, can we move on.

I already moved on

I'll probably keep talking about the Thorn because it's my favorite weapon tho, whether or not it's strong. If people get a rise over me wanting Y1 thorn back then...I dunno what to say

 

[SonComet]

I wouldn't mind thorn returning if it's stats were changed back to its vanilla pre-buff state combined with a change to the slowest rate of fire archetype. I think that archetype 2 shotting would be okay if they buffed other primaries as well. The return of a 2 burst red death would hard counter a slower less agile thorn.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I wouldn't mind thorn returning if it's stats were changed back to its vanilla pre-buff state combined with a change to the slowest rate of fire archetype. I think that archetype 2 shotting would be okay if they buffed other primaries as well. The return of a 2 burst red death would hard counter a slower less agile thorn.

It's what I want for the game-Not nerfing down weapons, but adding equally powerful weapons. That or PvP balance being separated from PvE..

 

[Frenden]

Trakan, Send It allowed Thorn to escape the hand cannon nerfs relatively unscathed compared to its counterparts.

It's still a shadow of its former self and I'd take a good Luna over it. But it's just unfun to play against.

 

[Marvel]

ROI can't come soon enough.

Glorious.

 

[Frenden]

NeoGAF++ is a great Chrome extension. It completely removes ignored users' posts among other quality of life improvements. Highly recommended.