Exactly a new foundation. There is no real continuity between both titles which has me befuddled at the decision to call it D2. Though I'm not hung up on what they decided to call it. What I'm more about is what they've done to add to the current Destiny experience, which isn't much in my opinion. You get the 'expansion' discussion because new [old activities] were a given, where are the new activities? Why aren't they being demonstrated?As far as content exclusively in Destiny 2 they've discussed Lost Sector and some new PVP modes. It's clear people were expecting more, myself included.
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Destiny |OT44| A Community in Discord
- Thread starter Ruthless_Barbarian
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Exactly a new foundation. There is no real continuity between both titles which has me befuddled at the decision to call it D2. Though I'm not hung up on what they decided to call it. What I'm more about is what they've done to add to the current Destiny experience, which isn't much in my opinion. You get the 'expansion' discussion because new [old activities] were a given, where are the new activities? Why aren't they being demonstrated?As far as content exclusively in Destiny 2 they've discussed Lost Sector and some new PVP modes. It's clear people were expecting more, myself included.
GlamFM
Banned
Elaborate on how Destiny 1 > 2 is any different than say Uncharted 2 > 3.
It really seems that different rules apply to Destiny for no good reason.
Because more of the same, but a bit bigger is how sequels work industry wide.
Oddly enough I´ve never heard people say "Oh, this is more like Black Ops 2,5"
Or FIFA 17,5
Or Super Mario Galaxy 1,5
Or.... actually any other game.
Different games, different expectations. I've had this discussion in the Destiny 2 reveal thread if you wish to go back and read it. I don't hold linear story-driven campaign games in terms of content to the same degree as what Bungie refers to as a shared-world shooter. PVP is as much the game as PVE is and I've seen disappointment expressed in both cases. Either being that now everything is exclusively 4v4 or that we still don't know if there is anymore end-game PvE content other than Nightfall/Raids and potentially Lost Sectors.
I'll say this on the whataboutism of expectations. If I was fully satisifed with what Destiny had to offer then I probably wouldn't expect more from it's supposed sequel.
GlamFM
Banned
I think this is key.
For some reason people had weird expectations for Destiny 2.
As I said - different rules seem to apply to D2 for no good reason.
I think you also should take into account my last line before driving that point home. I liked my time with Destiny, but as with many, considered what more they could have done to add on to the experience. So let's say expectations are higher when it comes to specifically Destiny, should people not be disappointed when it even fails to meet the bare minimum of what they expected? For some I'd say a noticeable and drastic bump in visuals, improved performance across all platforms [60 FPS], dedicated servers and far more content than what is being delivered at release.
Hazardous Metal
Member
The bold 1000x over. If Destiny 1 had been a complete package from the beginning, and then subsequent expansions had added onto the base game to create a content/feature rich experience, learning that Destiny 2 would include all of that and more would have been 100% okay with me. Destiny 2 being more of the same is a bad thing not because of familiarity but because "the same" wasn't enough to begin with. No dedicated servers and what appears to be a removal of the third subclass to later be sold as DLC down the road is just the cherry on top of the disappointment cake. I pre-ordered the game on PC and I will enjoy my time with what's given to me but nothing they've said or shown of Destiny 2 has given me confidence that the series has improved in a substantial way.
GlamFM
Banned
60fps was always an unrealistic expectation.
Personally I do think that the bump in visual fidelity is significant.
As for the amount of content I guess it´s too soon to make a call.
The 30 fps in Destiny 1 never bothered me but while people claim that the visuals should have been significantly improved for D2 I personally wouldn't have minded if they actually scaled them back a little bit to push for 60 fps.
I don't really expect Destiny 2 to blow me away as much as Destiny 1 did but I'm okay with this. I loved Destiny and more of the same is fine with me.
Have we heard anything about Destiny 1 locations making it into D2? I'm sure that will not be the case but there's honestly no excuse for not including these areas to D2. Hopefully they will be added later as an update or part of a DLC. I miss the Moon...
I don't really expect Destiny 2 to blow me away as much as Destiny 1 did but I'm okay with this. I loved Destiny and more of the same is fine with me.
Have we heard anything about Destiny 1 locations making it into D2? I'm sure that will not be the case but there's honestly no excuse for not including these areas to D2. Hopefully they will be added later as an update or part of a DLC. I miss the Moon...
CrudeDiatribe
Member
I am satisfied with Destiny so far (no fully), and this purports to do a better job in the weak areas.
But there are: a noticeable bump in visuals, dedicated servers (if by a different name read the description of what we're getting), and we have no idea of how much content is being delivered.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
Who the fuck runs self-res in 2017?
Use radiance for DPS/damage buff and orb generation, voidwalker is the best class for staying alive, and storm caller for something or other.
As for Destiny 2— the warlock class ability is a team buff— either damage boost or healing. Dawnblade doesn't seem to retain the sun singer's DPS abilities unfortunately. Haven't seen void walker, but I hope vampirism is still strong.
EDIT: derp, double post.
You play Warlock because it's best class in the game, even if its sub-classes were Rock & Stone.
Nothing else to it.
Meh, I played as a Sunsinger 99% of the time. Fuck the meta or optimal builds. I loved being the one who rose from the ashes just before the wipe counter ended to save everyone else's ass.
It also helped a lot when soloing shit like Nightfalls.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
Hard mode raiding: Most encounters can't be solo'd by most not-dead sunsinger players. If your wipe-save was keeping you at 5 or 6 players stop dying the other 8 subclasses have to.
Yeah, I do do this too. It was slight hyperbole. I feel self-res has become the default for warlocks, and variously warlock mains use it as a crutch or are badgered by their teammates for not using it both cases in lieu of something actually useful. I run self-res at Oryx for shade baiting, and at Atheon in the absence of anything more useful.
I only ever raided with friends and even then it was really casual. No hard modes or anything. That's why I didn't have to bother with the meta. I just played my favorite subclass. Would be a shame if they removed it completely.
CrudeDiatribe
Member
Self-res is the meta for warlocks, though. Using a sunsinger for its other abilities is grossly underrated.
It's gone for sure from Destiny 2, but hard-mode raiding might not be no-revive now.
GlamFM
Banned
GlamFM
Banned
all of my hate
Member
I disagree on this.
KingofSPUD
Neo Member
I just hope they have something for the strike that prevents people from exploring the rest of the planet, like a returning to mission area feature. I don't want that in the full game but want it in the Beta to reduce spoilers.
GlamFM
Banned
Talk to anyone who actually knows something about game development / programming and what those boxes can do and he would have told you the same.
Anyway,
Next IGN first - Text only this time:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/07...lestone-and-our-early-impressions-a-ign-first
all of my hate
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfdFnsFCbNE
About on par for the beta. It's not a demo so I'm not expecting it to blow my socks off.
About on par for the beta. It's not a demo so I'm not expecting it to blow my socks off.
Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, Overwatch, Doom, Titanfall, etc. all of these franchises were able to hit 60fps on the same box.
It was very possible for them to do it, if they wanted. Bungie decided, for whatever reason, that it wasn't important.
GlamFM
Banned
Just to piss us off I bet.
Corridor shooter =/= semi open world shared world shooter with lots of effects and enemies on screen.
In the end Bungie made the decision to aim for 30fps and do more in other parts of the game.
GlamFM
Banned
The source for all this frame rate talk is always out asses.
Does it run at 60? No.
Would Bungie have preferred to have it run at 60 - highly likely.
Safe assumption: it's not possible on current hardware.
Luke said that the gpu was not the problem, the CPU could not run the game at 60. Why not just believe him.?Bet he knows stuff our forum experts don't.
End of story? - of course not
Does it run at 60? No.
Would Bungie have preferred to have it run at 60 - highly likely.
Safe assumption: it's not possible on current hardware.
Luke said that the gpu was not the problem, the CPU could not run the game at 60. Why not just believe him.?Bet he knows stuff our forum experts don't.
End of story? - of course not
CoD has been 60fps even on shit hardware back in the day, but had obviously scaled back graphics to do it each time. (Hell, MW3 was 60fps on the Wii)
Battlefield barely reaches 60fps on console
Overwatch has really small arenas and a bunch of walls/vis blockers, you can't see more than maybe 20% of the total map at any one time
Doom is same thing, even original Dooms were careful to not show much of the map at any one time, which is why you've rarely seen open world games done with any Doom/Quake engine
The only platform Titanfall 1 was 60fps on was PC. Even the 360 version ran more stable than the One version (because it had a framerate lock option for 30fps). Also, again, it seems open but it's a bunch of tracks through corridors cleverly designed to make you not aware you're only seeing about ~20% of the map at any one time.
None of the above games also have to worry about loading and out through zones, they load once for everything and that's it.
Destiny is open world, has to stream in areas both ahead of you and in front of you, and your tradeoff in open world is that it's more costly to render any sort of complexity in your scene. GTAV is also 30fps on these consoles and they have even less complexity per scene but they took that tradeoff so you can go in literally any direction at any elevation at any time.
It's just what you gotta deal with on fixed hardware. The more open your world is, the less complexity you can have per scene as you have to be able to stream in the other parts of the world and hold both parts (area you're leaving, and the area you're entering). The less open it is, then you can go all the way up to the red line in either 60fps or 30, but the 60 redline is way lower than 30s. And to get a fixed framerate, you're technically shooting for something uncapped above 30 so that your 30hz update is solid.
As you said, it's a decision Bungie made, but it's not entirely arbitrary. You can't directly compare games, it's apples to gym socks. They would have to scale back per-section complexity, the AI count, even the amount of different armor and guns, to get to 60hz. Would it still be Destiny at that point?...
(and since PC runs at any arbitrary framerate, including 144hz, it's clear bungie has built the engine to be framerate agnostic)
No, you do not need to complete everything in the book to max it out at Rank 7 for the shirt. My Trials page is completely untouched and my Raid and Strikes pages only have 1-2 nodes completed and I reached Rank 7 easily.
It's a design choice, no doubt. They decided the game they wanted to make was more important than 60fps.
The problem I have with that is that Bungie does fuck all with all that open space. No big vehicle battles like in Halo.
If all that open space is just empty, non-interactive set pieces, what's the point?
Razzmatazzer
Member
The source for all this frame rate talk is always out asses.
Does it run at 60? No.
Would Bungie have preferred to have it run at 60 - highly likely.
Safe assumption: it's not possible on current hardware.
Luke said that the gpu was not the problem, the CPU could not run the game at 60. Why not just believe him.?Bet he knows stuff our forum experts don't.
End of story? - of course not
My guess has always been it's due to their engine. If I recall, early on it was said their engine was hard to work with. (like moving assets or something simple would take hours to recompile) and obviously they weren't going to build a new engine for destiny 2. So, while they may have tweaked the hell out of it, my guess is limitations present from the beginning (the game was built with last gen in mind as well) really hurt them moving forward. I struggle to believe a game like destiny would be impossible to run at 60fps had it been built on current gen hardware from the beginning... but I guess there's nothing that can be done now.
With that said... Destiny is one of the smoothest 30fps games out there. I can easily bounce back and forth between Destiny and COD/Titanfall/Battlefield without feeling like Destiny is half the frames. It's insane. In the past I want to say it was pretty obvious switching from a 60fps game to a 30fps game, Destiny doesn't really have that issue with me. So while i'd love 60 fps, I don't think 30 is anything to worry about.
and props to you Glam. You're one hell of a warrior over on the gaming side in Destiny threads, ha.
GlamFM
Banned
Thank you! Every once in a while I just stop working and argue with people over video games. FOR NO GOOD REASON!
all of my hate
Member
Which is why I'm most likely gonna build a PC (I've been meaning to anyways). Can't understand how people can watch the 144fps gameplay and still forgive 30fps.
Razzmatazzer
Member
Thank you! Every once in a while I just stop working and argue with people over video games. FOR NO GOOD REASON!
I tend to hold back a lot, but it really is frustrating to read sometimes. It's obvious too that a lot of these people either haven't played or played very little of the game and just want to bitch about it... Which makes it even more aggravating to read, haha.
Subtervotion
Member
Because I'm getting serious destiny 1 vanilla vibes from D2 so far. Destiny 1 started off pretty bad. But eventually they built it up to be a really good game. Although it took years to add content.
Now destiny 2 looks to be completely restarting from scratch even though it doesn't have to. It's very obvious that they are re-using assets so why can't they still have the cosmodrome, the moon, venus, Mars, the reef, the dreadnought, etc.
Now we'll have less content than we are accustomed to. How long till we get back to an amount that is acceptable?
I really hope vanilla is good enough. I hope it has a lot of content. But I'm not holding my breath. Everything I've seen so far of Destiny 2 looks like this will be destiny 1 vanilla all over again.
everyday math
Banned
I don't see D1 vanilla at all. Hell the story is longer then D1 vanilla itself. And more then likely actually make sense. Bigger open worlds. More to do in them. Better designed missions. Sort of scaled down lfg system. Hopefully the newly tweaked tools will allow for more live events on more consistent basis.
The only thing that's disappoints me is the lack of a new subclass for hunter. Arcstrider is a retooled blade dancer.
Besides that I don't see D1 at all.
The only thing that's disappoints me is the lack of a new subclass for hunter. Arcstrider is a retooled blade dancer.
Besides that I don't see D1 at all.
Obviously I ordered my age of triumph t shirt yesterday, so if there is anything new I like today, I get to pay customs charges twice.
Subtervotion
Member
3 classes
2-3 subclasses for each class
1 raid
X number of strikes. We don't know but we can guess it will be close to d1 vamilla
X number of pvp maps. We can guess around 10 right?
How do we know the story is longer? Do you think the story will be 2x longer? 1.5x? How repayable will it be? We don't know.
Weapon types, what's new? Lmg is gone.
4 planets to explore.
1 social space
The amount of content and diversity of content is extremely close to that of d1 vanilla. Aside from a coherent story, it's almost beat for beat.
everyday math
Banned
Putting aside everything why does the number of things mater in the scheme of things? If the quality we get is better what's the big deal?
Also you seem to be doing a lot of guessing.
Destiny is a game that constantly asks you to replay the same content over and over.
The number of these activities can help keep the game feeling fresh.
No matter how good a Strike/PVP map is, you likely don't want to repeat it.
Subtervotion
Member
I said I'm getting d1 vanilla vibes. I explained why. Content matters. But quality does matter too, you're right! However I'm not getting a sense that the quality is any better. The strike they showed looks pretty par for the course. They haven't given much other info. Again, I'm getting vibes of pre launch d1. Vague information from Bungie. Are they going to have another launch day embargo on reviews again? I hope not.
Im not trying to bring anyone's hype down. I'm just saying it looks like we are in a cycle and I'm pointing it out. Carry on if you please and enjoy the game when it comes out. It'll be fine, but nothing spectacular from what I've seen so far.