Support NeoGAF

[Synth]

Destiny being a blend of genres may make this worse than normal but reading this thread very very few people are even close to the actual flaws and problems the game has. And those are the people that played it.

The story is weak. The gameplay is great. The Co op is the best an fps has to offer. The loot drops are a bit sparse but not brutally so. People wanted more or expected more content and variation. These are legit criticisms.

The social aspect is janky. The only way you can make friends really is pugging strikes then friending the good players. If you already have friends the game welcomes you with open arms. That's another fair criticism.

No way is the a 7.5 game when it's contemporaries scores are taken into account. This is, imho, an industry backlash after bf4, titanfall, and watch dogs. Where they were criticized on their high scores so now the reviewers are grinding on destiny.

Sure, it's fair to you to think that. It's not exactly something we're gonna prove either way.

I'm definitely not going to agree though (especially the best co-op part). I don't think it deserves any more than 7.5 at all. Hell, I'm not sure I'd even give it that personally.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

Lying about what? Game development is a very fluid, difficult process. Some of the stuff they said was gonna be in there could've been cut after they said anything.

Saying "they lied" is kinda unfair.

Okay. They mislead us, and still to this day act like there's something we haven't seen yet. "Wait till next week, we promise there's something that will change your mind!"

 

[MORTALIS]

You played Diablo 3 AT LAUNCH on pc and felt this way? I'm legit shocked. The loot was lame and by and large the launch thread will back me up on that. Difficulty was just flat out gear checks and pay to win by buying armor or grinding the crap out of the game.

What I'm guessing you did is played Diablo 3 after blizzard fixed everything and are assuming it always was this way on consoles.

Yes, sorry, you're correct. Played it on xbox 360 and then the XB1 version.

 

[Alienous]

People keep saying this. When did the Devs lie about the games content?

Due to the nebulous nature of Destiny's content, it can't be said that they truly lied, but they have certainly been purposefully misleading.

They have told players that they'll be able to visit Saturn in Destiny. That might be the case sometime in the future, but it certainly wasn't at launch.

They have said that areas outside the boundaries of one particular zone were actually real geometry, and playable game space. In the demo they showed, that is indeed true. It is real geometry, and it is space that could be playable, you just can't play on it. In the final release it is simply part of the skybox that envelopes the level.

In general terms they have actively tried to make it seem like Destiny is a far larger game than it really is.

 

[Norns]

Due to the nebulous nature of Destiny's content, they can't be said to have truly lied, but they have certainly been purposefully misleading.

They have told players that they'll be able to visit Saturn in Destiny. That might be the case sometime in the future, but it certainly wasn't at launch.

They have said that areas outside the boundaries of one particular zone were actually real geometry, and playable game space. In the demo they showed, that is indeed true. It is real geometry, and it is space that could be playable, you just can't play on it. In the final release it is simply part of the skybox that envelopes the level.

In general terms they have actively tried to make it seem like Destiny is a far larger game than it really is.

Both of these examples weren't given by devs.

 

[The Librarian]

Okay. They mislead us, and still to this day act like there's something we haven't seen yet. "Wait till next week, we promise there's something that will change your mind!"

Um, what's misleading, exactly? The raid is coming next week along with the Queen's Wrath.

And misleading implies an intention to deceive, when game development isn't a fixed certainty.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

1/10 is unplayable, 3/10 is bad, 5/10 is average, 7/10 is good, 9/10 is great.

The scale itself when it comes to numbers doesn't really change that much.

Bigger numbers mean there is a gap between the base line, and increased difficulty to give average games proper review scores.

Because when you do a ten point scale, most people think about the grading system where a 5/10 is failing, and a 7/10 means horribly mediocre.

That's why a five point scale works better. Sure, it puts a bunch of games into the same score that might have been separated a little better with a larger scale, but it reduces the outside influence of other irrelevant grading systems.

 

[JigglesBunny]

I cringed reading that. He doesn't understand the purpose of reviews at all.

Gaming is an expensive hobby. We pay hundreds of dollars for a platform and $60 for a new game. With deceptive marketing tactics such as fake demos, bullshots, and PR speak, how can we know if a game is worth it?

If flaws, especially major ones are there, it is best to point them out. If a game truly isn't worth our hard earned money, then everyone deserves to know. Sure, you can have fun with almost any game but these are not free. And with a disappointing game, you're not just wasting your hard earned money, you're wasting time.

If you've ever seen one his "reviews", that tweet should come as no surprise. I could never trust the guy on a single thing because all he ever does is ooze about how amazing a game is even when it's nothing special. The only time he's ever complained or had a legitimate complaint is when a game is overtly awful. (A:CM, DNF, etc.)

I wonder how the guy has made his way into the industry to any extent at all. His personality is played like a character and he has nothing of value to say on the industry or it's products.

 

[Ghazi]

Is this another variant of the "devs are lazy" comment?

It was five, and a lot of that time went into building a new engine.

Did I ever say they were lazy? Judging by the amount of final content of the game, seven, even five, seems inefficient. That's not saying they're lazy, because I'm sure they worked their hearts out making the game, it just seems like a long time, for such an oddly disjointed end result...


Especially with comments like "All that space over there is playable", one could, theoretically, actually believe that coming from Bungie and the amount of time they worked on the game.

Five years. Pre-production. Concepts. Protyping. Reworking the game. Scratching projects. I don't know, you tell me, how does game development work? How do ideas work? Do people just think of something and BOOM. Done? Do ideas not require time to build, test, playthroughs?

Where are you getting five years from (I know Dax said it, and I'm not trying to sound accusing), but the Newsweek Destiny magazine says 2007 in the opening article/chapter.



Also, both of you seem to be misunderstanding me. Trust me, I'm not saying Bungie is lazy. I'm just saying it's a little weird how long it took for the game to come out the way it did.

 

[Alienous]

Both of these examples weren't given by devs.

Oh? I seem to be under the impression, due to the videos I have watched, that those statements came from people sanctioned by Bungie. I certainly don't remember Bungie highlighting and dismissing any connection with those statements.

Shit, I must be mistaken. Could you tell me who those people were, then?

 

[Norns]

If you've ever seen one his "reviews", that tweet should come as no surprise. I could never trust the guy on a single thing because all he ever does is ooze about how amazing a game is even when it's nothing special. The only time he's ever complained or had a legitimate complaint is when a game is overtly awful. (A:CM, DNF, etc.)

I wonder how the guy has made his way into the industry to any extent at all. His personality is played like a character and he has nothing of value to say on the industry or it's products.

It's almost like game reviews reflect different styles and opinions!

 

[Izuna]

Both of these examples weren't given by devs.

They were though?

It wasn't in insider that made those preview videos...

 

[VeeP]

So if Destiny was in development for 7 years, wtf did they do with all that time?

Five years. Pre-production. Concepts. Protyping. Reworking the game. Scratching projects. I don't know, you tell me, how does game development work? How do ideas work? Do people just think of something and BOOM. Done? Do ideas not require time to build, test, playthroughs?

 

[Fracas]

Destiny feels like Bungie spent the first 90% of dev time writing out what they wanted the game to be. Then sometime around January they realized they forgot to actually make the game.

I like the overall product (somewhat), but I'm incredibly disappointed.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Both of these examples weren't given by devs.

The Saturn comment was made in a ViDoc, and I'm pretty sure that "payable space" comment was made by a developer during a demo, right?

 

[Hollycat]

I've mentioned defiance a few times in this thread but noone ever replied I wonder how the people who think destiny is being treated too harshly by critics feel about the 64 metacritic score for that game, and where they were when this happened.

Defiance plays like a butt.

 

[Goodacre0081]

Mostly I lurk in GAF. But I just had to write a thank you to all of the posters whose posts
I've read in this thread.

By and large, the comments and arguments have been insightful.  More, the comments (and the reviews) have helped me. I watched the ads, several YouTube series on the beta gameplay and features and I perused a copy of the strat guide. I thought the strat guide was good as those things go). I don't own a next gen console yet. My TVs don't even have HDMI ports. The hype and info on destiny was such that I thought it was time to upgrade. Now, I know I can wait.  So, thanks gaffers. You helped me dodge a bullet.

you make it sound like this game is DukeNukemForever/AliensCM levels of bad. those games were bullets to be dodged.

 

[Etnos]

Oh, Christ. Fuck off with that ridiculousness, Hippity Pip Pop.

I don't want to have to defend Gies, of all people.

Seems like Hip Hop Gamer just wanna have fun

 

[NullPointer]

Both of these examples weren't given by devs.

Yes, they were.

 

[gatti-man]

Yes, sorry, you're correct. Played it on xbox 360 and then the XB1 version.

Well hopefully bungie does that with Destiny to bring you all into the fold. I like Destiny alot but I can see why some of you don't like it. With work it could be far better.

 

[Norns]

Oh? I seem to be under the impression, due to the videos I have watched, that those statements came from people sanctioned by Bungie. I certainly don't remember Bungie highlighting and dismissing any connection with those statements.

Shit, I must be mistaken. Could you tell me who those people were, then?

PR people demoing a game In development.

Things change. When you have a large company and product you a aren't going to go out and tell everyone that you had to scale back your project.

It's not deception. It's a byproduct of everyone wanting to see shit before its released.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I'll try to tackle this issue from another angle. The problem with calling Destiny an MMORPG is that once you do, there is SO MUCH wrong with Destiny that a 6/10 or worse score should suffice. Calling it an MMORPG rather than I dunno, FPSRPG (like Borderlands?) means that the fact that you cannot trade, or chat to players in the tower, etc. become huge issues. Even in terms of loot, the loot becomes very pointless until Iron Hammer comes out or when Raids come out. And we cannot expect Gamespot to ether not review the game or review the game based on assumptions of what Raids will be like, when none of us do.

What Destiny needs is more MMORPGness, in the sense that we have more areas and more reason to fight the same enemies over and over again, or at the very least different enemies. I mean, Bounties are like quests in MMOs but they don't have a silly explanation behind them and they are recycled day after day.

If Destiny didn't have it's gunplay, it would be attrocious honestly. With it, it doesn't make the lack of purpose to shoot any better. 6/10 is the perfect score for a game where all you can say about it is "fun to shoot things again and again, in nice looking envirnoments".

Or should we give that 8/10?

I actually agree with the scores based on what wasn't handled very well. I'm not suggesting the criticism isn't warranted, or that because I see it as structurally similar to an MMO, it should somehow receive some slack or patience in reviews. The lower scores and the criticism that goes along with them I feel are totally fair for what was released.

I'm not one of the people trying to defend the game on the insistence that it's an MMO, and as such it should be given any kind of pass.

 

[Alienous]

PR people demoing a game In development.

Things change. When you have a large company and product you a aren't going to go out and tell everyone that you had to scale back your your project.

It's not deception. It's a byproduct of everyone wanting to see shit before its released.

You must be kidding me. Do you honestly think that?

Mostly I lurk in GAF. But I just had to write a thank you to all of the posters whose posts
I've read in this thread.

By and large, the comments and arguments have been insightful.  More, the comments (and the reviews) have helped me. I watched the ads, several YouTube series on the beta gameplay and features and I perused a copy of the strat guide. I thought the strat guide was good as those things go). I don't own a next gen console yet. My TVs don't even have HDMI ports. The hype and info on destiny was such that I thought it was time to upgrade. Now, I know I can wait.  So, thanks gaffers. You helped me dodge a bullet.

I'm glad you think this thread helped you make a more informed purchasing decision. Really, either way, if people are saving money or learning about a game that interests them then that's what a review thread should do.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

If you've ever seen one his "reviews", that tweet should come as no surprise. I could never trust the guy on a single thing because all he ever does is ooze about how amazing a game is even when it's nothing special. The only time he's ever complained or had a legitimate complaint is when a game is overtly awful. (A:CM, DNF, etc.)

I wonder how the guy has made his way into the industry to any extent at all. His personality is played like a character and he has nothing of value to say on the industry or it's products.

I have incredible disdain for the individual, but despite the obvious bias he demonstrates he has been putting out some decent reviews like with Wolfenstein and, yes, Destiny (like that it was a co-op'd piece). Note that I'm saying reviews, not the score or his notorious behavior on Twitter.

 

[Ingueferroque]

So if Destiny was in development for 7 years, wtf did they do with all that time?

Have you played it? Or is this just bandwagon hate?

 

[TheGameChanger]

No I didn't, I knew it was serious when I first saw it. Other people on the other hand assumed it was for the reasons I gave (more content = better, regardless of what the content is). As for the other games' content not being good enough... well, opinions again. I'm not looking to argue the quality of unrelated games here.



You're aware this is a review thread and not an OT right? Typically none of us would have played the game before we started posting here, if it weren't for the delayed reviews. If we're all supposed to just ignore the reviews and run out and try every game for ourselves, why wold a thread like this even exist? Why wouldn't we just be in the OT for this game instead?

You're basically complaining about people being on topic here.

Good to see people can acknowledge that.

 

[bigwinnerx]

Mostly I lurk in GAF. But I just had to write a thank you to all of the posters whose posts
I've read in this thread.

By and large, the comments and arguments have been insightful.  More, the comments (and the reviews) have helped me. I watched the ads, several YouTube series on the beta gameplay and features and I perused a copy of the strat guide. I thought the strat guide was good as those things go). I don't own a next gen console yet. My TVs don't even have HDMI ports. The hype and info on destiny was such that I thought it was time to upgrade. Now, I know I can wait.  So, thanks gaffers. You helped me dodge a bullet.

There a great Dreamcast bundle in the BST board, that might be more up your alley.

 

[Heroman]

Um, what's misleading, exactly? The raid is coming next week along with the Queen's Wrath.

And misleading implies an intention to deceive, when game development isn't a fixed certainty.

They said stuff about was would be in the game that wasnt in the game.

 

[NullPointer]

Things change. When you have a large company and product you a aren't going to go out and tell everyone that you had to scale back your project.

It's not deception. It's a byproduct of everyone wanting to see shit before its released.

When you make a statement about something and that thing is changed or removed, and you don't later clarify or correct it, and purposefully don't clarify or correct it because you want the ambiguity to linger, that's pure deception.

I don't know what it is up with Saturn, or what all was meant by playable space, and whether it was in regards to day one or DLC or Destiny 3 for all we know, but I am sure that ambiguity helped their sales to some degree. Its no secret that there were concerns about how much content would be in Destiny at release (and outside the need for further paid DLC).

 

[Kade]

Hiphopgamer in meltdown mode.



ANSWER THAT...

Anytime someone posts an opinion or review that doesn't line up with this goober's opinions he goes into shill mode and tells everyone that they don't play games for the passion and fun anymore. Wish he'd just keep his mouth shut and live with the fact that people like and value different things.

 

[Eusis]

GOD. Is that serious? Is that really a creator of the game saying that? So its a normal game then before the event, the event is supposed to be good, and after? What happen after? is it good or going back to normal?

Tell me its a troll post or something.

Well, if the events stick around for awhile or aren't permanently missable it may be a significant factor, and raids could change the dynamic and provide a fuller end game, but I can't imagine they'd inherently make more than a point(/ten point) difference at best when the other 75-90% of a game comes off as relatively flat. In which case if taken literally it's... what, and 83 game then? Pretty good, but kind of underwhelming for something with the hype and expectations it had.

It really does feel like THE kind of game you should wait on if you can't prevent hype from influencing you at least a little bit. By the time you are used to the lukewarm reception you're probably more easily pleased by what's actually there, nevermind those events, raids, even DLC would provide a richer experience.

 

[The Librarian]

Especially with comments like "All that space over there is playable", one could, theoretically, actually believe that coming from Bungie and the amount of time they worked on the game.

Maybe at that point that area *was* playable, but it wasn't in final release.

Anybody saying or accusing Bungie of lying isn't being entirely fair because game development is not a smooth process where developers get everything they want in the game they initially wanted to. Things get cut. Things get redesigned. Things change.

People need to remember this.

 

[ebullientprism]

Since I stopped giving two fucks about reviews I enjoy video gaming a lot of a hell more.

Reviews are meant to help you make a purchasing decision. Not validate your opinion of something AFTER you have already bought it.

If they were affecting your enjoyment of something you were already playing then you werent really looking for a review. Maybe an echo chamber.

 

[gatti-man]

Oh? I seem to be under the impression, due to the videos I have watched, that those statements came from people sanctioned by Bungie. I certainly don't remember Bungie highlighting and dismissing any connection with those statements.

Shit, I must be mistaken. Could you tell me who those people were, then?

The quote about playable game space loves to be misquoted on gaf to suit people's agendas. He said all of this is playable geometry and we'd love to send you there someday but you know deadlines and budgets.

In other words it's real geometry so in the future we can expand areas easily in updates or expansions.

 

[Zakalwe]

Sure, it's fair to you to think that. It's not exactly something we're gonna prove either way.

I'm definitely not going to agree though (especially the best co-op part). I don't think it deserves any more than 7.5 at all. Hell, I'm not sure I'd even give it that personally.

I think gatti is spot on. Destiny was in the wrong place at the wrong time in certain ways.

Some of the reviewers are adding far more weight to the criticisms they give Destiny than they did when applying similar critiques to other games.

Wrong ace wrong time, Bungie pedigree, expectations too high or hoping for something other than we got, etc...

The game has it's flaws, but it's easily as good as many of the games given 8s across the board. Easily.

 

[btags]

Both of these examples weren't given by devs.

Yes they were, one was a dev describing playable spaces in an e3 demo and one was a dev in a vidoc saying you could go to saturn.

 

[GrandHarrier]

Hiphopgamer in meltdown mode.

--SNIP--

ANSWER THAT...

.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Have you played it? Or is this just bandwagon hate?

Isn't witch-hunting frowned upon? And while the 7 years is misinformation and completely devoid of context, that doesn't mean someone who hasn't played the game can't question it when seeing reviews/reading impressions.

The line is where someone starts saying something about the quality of the game or about specific elements as if they have played it when they actually haven't.

Otherwise why do we have these threads when generally the reviews are out before any of us touch the shrink-wrap?

 

[Ingueferroque]

Are we in full-on Destiny bullying mode? No way does it deserve this type of critical backlash. It isn't going to change games the way Halo did, but is it really a bad game?

It seems people either expected it to be a full-on MMO with vast worlds to explore, or for it to deliver them a scripted narrative experience akin to Bioshock Infinite.

Whilst Bungie is partially at fault for this with the way they sold the game at conferences, they did release an open alpha and beta that painted a pretty clear picture of what to expect.

As others have pointed out, it definitely is not perfect. But at the same time judging it for what it IS, and what it DELIVERS, I find it hard to say it is inherently a bad or broken game, nothing that would be so deserving of this insane backlash and hundreds of posters going out of their way to call Bungie out, as if they somehow got away with something.

With what, our $60?

Isn't witch-hunting frowned upon? And while the 7 years is misinformation and completely devoid of context, that doesn't mean someone who hasn't played the game can't question it when seeing reviews/reading impressions.

It seems we are witch hunting Destiny.

 

[nynt9]

Regarding "why can't you just enjoy [thing]? why must you be so critical of it?": http://www.racialicious.com/2009/12/21/and-we-shall-call-this-moffs-law/

First of all, when we analyze art, when we look for deeper meaning in it, we are enjoying it for what it is. Because that is one of the things about art, be it highbrow, lowbrow, mainstream, or avant-garde: Some sort of thought went into its making — even if the thought was, “I’m going to do this as thoughtlessly as possible”! — and as a result, some sort of thought can be gotten from its reception. That is why, among other things, artists (including, for instance, James Cameron) really like to talk about their work.

So when you go out of your way to suggest that people should be thinking less — that not using one’s capacity for reason is an admirable position to take, and one that should be actively advocated — you are not saying anything particularly intelligent. And unless you live on a parallel version of Earth where too many people are thinking too deeply and critically about the world around them and what’s going on in their own heads, you’re not helping anything; on the contrary, you’re acting as an advocate for entropy.

 

[rrc1594]

WTF is this shit

“I don’t even have time to explain why I don’t have time to explain.”

 

[Heroman]

Maybe at that point that area *was* playable, but it wasn't in final release.

Anybody saying or accusing Bungie of lying isn't being entirely fair because game development is not a smooth process where developers get everything they want in the game they initially wanted to. Things get cut. Things get redesigned. Things change.

People need to remember this.

I dont cares if game development is hard. That not our problem. Dont say shit if it not going to be in the game and make it clear what is in the game.

 

[AngryPuppy]

Regarding everyone comparing this with Diablo 3 at launch... that's valid, but Destiny has so much more work to do than Diablo 3 did to get it to where it needs to be. And there's no indication Bungie has any interest in creating awesome setpieces, varied gameplay, fixing all the social shit, putting in an actual story with actually interesting characters, etc.

Diablo 3 had a to build a house, Destiny needs to build a skyscraper.

 

[Alienous]

Maybe at that point that area *was* playable, but it wasn't in final release.

Anybody saying or accusing Bungie of lying isn't being entirely fair because game development is not a smooth process where developers get everything they want in the game they initially wanted to. Things get cut. Things get redesigned. Things change.

People need to remember this.

They were being purposefully misleading. Yeah, they were saying it is playable space, with the implication being "Yeah, you can play on it". But the statement is ambigious enough for them to say a defend-able, bare-faced lie. "Well, it is 'playable' as in it has collision detection. But you can't play on it". There is no reason to call attention to that space, other than to give the impression that your game has a larger game world than it really does. That's a shitty and misleading thing to do, and something that they didn't clarify on purpose. It is so easy to say, instead, "We hope to expand the game into that region in post-launch DLC". But that wouldn't be the misleading thing to say.

 

[TheGameChanger]

Have you played it? Or is this just bandwagon hate?

Pretty much. And I am pretty sure Destiny wasn't in development for 7 years. The full Bungie team moved onto Destiny after shipping Reach which was in 2010. Prior to that, two people there were working on the concept art and deciding what they wanted. So Destiny has been in development for 4 years and who know how long it took them to make a new engine. On top of that, they had to deal with the new generation consoles. Destiny is a great game, but it's clearly a work in progress. The game could have been much more but I got exactly what I expected.

 

[nynt9]

I find it hard to say it is inherently a bad or broken game, nothing that would be so deserving of this insane backlash and hundreds of posters going out of their way to call Bungie out, as if they somehow got away with something.

With what, our $60?

They got away with misleading consumers via their marketing and silencing critical reviews via a bullshit excuse.

 

[shinobi602]

.

Welp.

 

[The Librarian]

They were being purposefully misleading.

There's no way you can say that for sure. Maybe it was and maybe Bungie had stuff for the player to do, but it wasn't in the final release. You know, game development.

During the run-up to Halo 3's release, one Bungie said you could walk around to the Forerunenr portal. You can't in the final release, but maybe Bungie's plan was for you to at one point and it got scaled back.

It's not the first time that's happened.

 

[Ingueferroque]

They got away with misleading consumers via their marketing and silencing critical reviews via a bullshit excuse.

I find it hard to believe that Bungie 'knew' they had a bad or mediocre game on their hands. And that delaying reviews by a week would do anything to avert a media backlash.

I bet Bungie used that time to pack their bags and flee to Mexico? No? Ok.

 

[Izuna]

Both of these examples weren't given by devs.

The quote about playable game space loves to be misquoted on gaf to suit people's agendas. He said all of this is playable geometry and we'd love to send you there someday but you know deadlines and budgets.

In other words it's real geometry so in the future we can expand areas easily in updates or expansions.

No he didn't. He threw a grenade to show that you could go there to see how far you could walk. In saying that there was so much to explore. If they wanted to leave it for updating new areas, why did they remove it completely and give us skyboxes instead?