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[Men_in_Boxes]

According to Tom Henderson (may or may not be reliable) the industry is cooling on Battle Royale and headed towards Escape from Tarkov like modes going forward.



I assume most people know what Battle Royale is but Extraction (Escape from Tarkov) type games are a little less well know. Here's a quick (time stamped) primer...




It seems like the one thing in common between both genres are high stakes. Players gradually grow in power by playing successfully and permadeath is fundamental. This creates much more tension filled engagements than typical shooters.

I'm skeptical of this rumor, though it's certainly possible. Battlefield 2042 attempted an Extraction mode. Ubisofts Ghost Recon Frontline seems to be Extraction, as well as their other multiplayer shooter The Division Heartland. Three straight Extraction releases might signify a pattern. However, Battle Royale seems to be as big as ever, we really haven't seen a flop outside of HyperScape, and Tarkov isn't as big as the BR giants.

What say you? Is BR being replaced by Extraction?

 

[kyliethicc]

Yeah CoD MW2 apparently has a new DMZ mode that's a Tarkov clone. Sounds dope.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

What is that? I'm not real sure how that mode works.

 

[bender]

From that video, It sounds like The Division's dark zones?

Sounds easier to monitize.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What is that? I'm not real sure how that mode works.

I'm having a hard time understanding it too.

I think they place you and your teammates on one end of a map. They give you an extraction point on the other end. Then they do the same with a number of other teams so you're likely to bump into eachother. Then, along the way you're finding (killing) loot that makes your character stronger...so it's a bit of "Should we head to the extraction point or do we want to keep looting" gamble.

Hopefully someone with experience can explain it better.

 

[kyliethicc]

I'm having a hard time understanding it too.

I think they place you and your teammates on one end of a map. They give you an extraction point on the other end. Then they do the same with a number of other teams so you're likely to bump into eachother. Then, along the way you're finding (killing) loot that makes your character stronger...so it's a bit of "Should we head to the extraction point or do we want to keep looting" gamble.

Hopefully someone with experience can explain it better.

Tarkov is solo. Total free for all. You go into the map, get shit, and try to get out without dying. Shoot anyone on sight, or sneak by.

Its basically an RPG. Its all about weighing what to bring (and risk losing) in order to get in, get as much loot as you can, and escape. Stealth is obviously useful.

The loop is find gear and extract. Its not a last man standing BR like Warzone.

 

[kingfey]

Should Halo get BR mode now? or this new mode?

 

[PSYGN]

[...]
The loop is find gear and extract. Its not a last man standing BR like Warzone.

Not gonna lie that sounds boring. But somehow it's not?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Tarkov is solo. Total free for all. You go into the map, get shit, and try to get out without dying. Shoot anyone on sight, or sneak by.

Its basically an RPG. Its all about weighing what to bring (and risk losing) in order to get in, get as much loot as you can, and escape. Stealth is obviously useful.

The loop is find gear and extract. Its not a last man standing BR like Warzone.

I like the idea of choosing your gamble (stealth vs action vs rushing to extraction) but do you get big moments in Tarkov? Is there a big win condition? I still get up off my couch and make loud noises when me and my teammate get a Victory Royale in Fortnite.

 

[Holammer]

There's this game mode where you have two teams of six players each duke it out till one team reaches a certain score.
"Team Deathmatch" I believe it's called. It'll blow the minds of Fortnite kids.

 

[elliot5]

Feels like a repeat of the roguelite-roguelike genre boom. Battle Royales have basically no meta-progression involved, but are very addicting in getting one more "run" in. EFT-likes have similar overlap with a traditional battle royale, but with meta progression. Hence why basically every roguelite now has meta progression and carry over progress if you play well. Makes sense to me

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Game was bigger than I thought. 200k concurrent players back in 2020. I still don't quite get what developers are seeing (with BR and survival my brain is like "duh") but I guess I'm a little intrigued.

 

[CS Lurker]

There's this game mode where you have two teams of six players each duke it out till one team reaches a certain score.
"Team Deathmatch" I believe it's called. It'll blow the minds of Fortnite kids.

Is it a meme or something like this? Because fortnite has a team DM mode (I played it years ago, but I know it's still there)

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Sounds like the Survival mode from the original Division?

You are dropped onto the map. Instead of a shrinking zone forcing you into altercations, you are sick with a virus and you have to take medicine to stay alive. So eventually you have to get to the areas with the medicine, and you are on the clock to be extracted with loot otherwise you die. You’re also in a blizzard and unless you go around looting areas to get better equipment and clothes, you freeze to death.

You start as a basic weak agent but then you get better gear and craft shit until you’re maxed out. It all culminates in the “dark zone” where you have to kill super agent AI and then extract, which alerts other human players to your location. It was an incredible take on BR and idk how they launched Division 2 without it.

 

[Batiman]

As much as BR mode is played out, I still prefer it to extraction type modes. I feel they’re too time consuming.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

As much as BR mode is played out, I still prefer it to extraction type modes. I feel they’re too time consuming.

There doesn't seem to be a big climax in these games. I can understand the appeal of permadeath in multiplayer but what is the player building towards? At a certain point, your character is all kitted out and...you just keep playing to dunk on lower powered players, with the threat of losing everything present.

If I'm understanding it correctly, it seems a bit half baked maybe? I suppose I'd have to try it myself.

 

[yurinka]

I highly doubt it, it's the first time I heard about 'escape from Tarkov'.

Most devs won't even know what this means, so thtey aren't working on it. If something they may be working on making their own Fortnite or GTA Online.

 

[elliot5]

I highly doubt it, it's the first time I heard about 'escape from Tarkov'.

Most devs won't even know what this means, so thtey aren't working on it. If something they may be working on making their own Fortnite or GTA Online.

I'm sure a lot of devs are aware of EFT. It had a HUGE wave on Twitch and YT a while back and every now and then returns as a flavor of the month. It's why games like Battlefield are making these types of game modes. The big players are taking notes and experimenting.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I highly doubt it, it's the first time I heard about 'escape from Tarkov'.

Most devs won't even know what this means, so thtey aren't working on it. If something they may be working on making their own Fortnite or GTA Online.

game is hugely popular whether youve heard of it or not

 

[balls of snow]

Makes sense since you can populate the server with a lower playercount. Face it, 80+ battleroyale pop servers die if youre not top dog like Apex Legends or Warzone. Rip Hyperscape.

 

[The_hunter]

There's this game mode where you have two teams of six players each duke it out till one team reaches a certain score.
"Team Deathmatch" I believe it's called. It'll blow the minds of Fortnite kids.

Sounds revolutionary, you won't have to run around an empty map for 20 minutes and can just have constant action.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

I'm having a hard time understanding it too.

I think they place you and your teammates on one end of a map. They give you an extraction point on the other end. Then they do the same with a number of other teams so you're likely to bump into eachother. Then, along the way you're finding (killing) loot that makes your character stronger...so it's a bit of "Should we head to the extraction point or do we want to keep looting" gamble.

Hopefully someone with experience can explain it better.

oh okay, so battle royale but not time based, goal based?

 

[Swift_Star]

I’ve no idea what this means.

 

[ManaByte]

As much as BR mode is played out

Meanwhile Apex Legends is the #4 played game on Steam behind Dota2.

 

[chixdiggit]

Not a huge fan of Tarkov. Hunt Showdown does it way better IMO.

 

[zeorhymer]

R6 Extraction!

The revolution is already here!!!!!!

(I think it's a cover for NFT skins)

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I never even heard of “Escape from Tarkov” like modes.

 

[kyliethicc]

Not gonna lie that sounds boring. But somehow it's not?

It has the best and most in depth weapon customization. No other game comes close.

Its insane. You literally have to manage every part, your mags, and your various ammo types. Different types of reloads for speed options. Fastest reload drops the mag on the ground, which you then lose permanently if you don't pick it up.

Its a survival game. You have to carry medical supplies to heal, and it takes time. You need food & water for replenishing your energy over time, etc. Its a hardcore survival game with in depth inventory management and very little HUD.

Example: How much ammo is left in the magazine? Take it out and look. There's no HUD that says it like in most FPS games. Adds tension. Realistic.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

Not a huge fan of Tarkov. Hunt Showdown does it way better IMO.

Did Hunt fix the texture issues on Xbox/PS5 yet? I can’t find reliable answers.

 

[kyliethicc]

I like the idea of choosing your gamble (stealth vs action vs rushing to extraction) but do you get big moments in Tarkov? Is there a big win condition? I still get up off my couch and make loud noises when me and my teammate get a Victory Royale in Fortnite.

You "win" by surviving and escaping. Killing someone wins you the chance to loot their corpse and then keep their shit lol.

Its basically a singleplayer game that's actually multiplayer.

There's also bots in the map too for PvE stuff. And no reason why you couldn't necessarily work together with other players. But no guarantee they won't just kill you.

 

[ksdixon]

Sounds like the Survival mode from the original Division?

You are dropped onto the map. Instead of a shrinking zone forcing you into altercations, you are sick with a virus and you have to take medicine to stay alive. So eventually you have to get to the areas with the medicine, and you are on the clock to be extracted with loot otherwise you die. You’re also in a blizzard and unless you go around looting areas to get better equipment and clothes, you freeze to death.

You start as a basic weak agent but then you get better gear and craft shit until you’re maxed out. It all culminates in the “dark zone” where you have to kill super agent AI and then extract, which alerts other human players to your location. It was an incredible take on BR and idk how they launched Division 2 without it.

That's what that mode was? I never got around to it. That sounds sick.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You "win" by surviving and escaping. Killing someone wins you the chance to loot their corpse and then keep their shit lol.

Its basically a singleplayer game that's actually multiplayer.

There's also bots in the map too for PvE stuff. And no reason why you couldn't necessarily work together with other players. But no guarantee they won't just kill you.

One more question...

Can you understand why developers would be more interested in Tarkov type games over BR? Do they seem cheaper, quicker, easier to make (smaller maps, lower player counts etc)?

It seems like The Division, Hunt Showdown, Escape from Tarkov, Vigor, SCUM, Battlefield 2042, Ghost Recon Frontline, The Division Heartland...

The batting average on these games seem a lot more iffy than BR. Why would managment ever say "Make a Tarkov mode" over "Make a BR" when commercially, there seems to be some distance between the two? Any theories?

 

[kyliethicc]

One more question...

Can you understand why developers would be more interested in Tarkov type games over BR? Do they seem cheaper, quicker, easier to make (smaller maps, lower player counts etc)?

It seems like The Division, Hunt Showdown, Escape from Tarkov, Vigor, SCUM, Battlefield 2042, Ghost Recon Frontline, The Division Heartland...

The batting average on these games seem a lot more iffy than BR. Why would managment ever say "Make a Tarkov mode" over "Make a BR" when commercially, there seems to be some distance between the two? Any theories?

Why not both?

Rumor is CoD MW2 is adding a mode that's like Tarkov that's called DMZ, but its not replacing Warzone. Its probably gonna be a new mode more games will explore adding. I doubt its an either or thing. They're just different.

BR is still fundamentally a competitive PvP mode. Escape from Tarkov is basically a solo PvE game that uses Players to make the Environment challenging. Almost like its PvEvP. Its like a singleplayer (online) RPG that just so happens to use real players instead of just AI for the enemies.

 

[Trimesh]

I think it's simply that after Fortnite a lot of developers looked at the piles of cash that Epic were raking in and decided they wanted some of that. The problem is that in a game where all the revenue is tied to cosmetics the only thing being a whale gets you is the ability to indulge in "look at me" attention whoring. This results in all the whales ending up on the platform with the most users because it maximizes their ability to show off.

The thing is that I'm not sure how this would play out in an EFT type game - most of the time you are skulking around trying to avoid getting noticed at all. Not a good environment for selling lurid fluorescent ski pants - and if you start trying to sell items that actually effect gameplay then you are going to piss a huge number of people off.

 

[Griffon]

AAA developers are 3 to 4 years behind the innovation curve now, and the gap keeps getting bigger.

Tarkov was yesterday's yeterday's news.

 

[TransTrender]

AAAIDS trend chasing developers continue to chase tends. Which ones will find success? Come back and find out with the 11 OClock news, after NCIS.

 

[Hestar69]

BR modes > Tarkov's mode easily.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

AAA developers are 3 to 4 years behind the innovation curve now, and the gap keeps getting bigger.

Tarkov was yesterday's yeterday's news.

PUBG blew up in 2017
Fortnite blew up in 2018
Tarkov + Apex Legends blew up in 2019

It feels like developers see something in the Tarkov formula they want to play with. Especially because I can't imagine pivoting from one to the other halfway through development would be very hard.

As a BR nut, the most interesting aspect I see from these games is that meta progression. Building your character up from game to game is something I wish BR would do. It's not totally clicking with me though. Still surprised we're getting a wave of Tarkov-likes in 2022.

 

[Black_Stride]

Not gonna lie that sounds boring. But somehow it's not?

When you break down most MP modes so reductively they sound boring.

Gameplay carries much further than simply the description.
Like Hunt Showdown is really hard to describe in a super interesting way......but its probably the most interesting shooter MP game out there right now.

Escape from Tarkov has the same deal, explaining it might not get peoples attention.....but play three matches....you are already hooked.
I say three cuz your first match you might not care losing shit, your second match you kinda care....your third match onwards you are playing risk/reward in your head constantly.

 

[ryzen1]

Not gonna lie that sounds boring. But somehow it's not?

I guess every every playmode or gamestyle sounds boring by explaining it.
But the tension in a tarkov raid is unprecedented. I love it

 

[The_Mike]

With these two options then the future of online gaming looks pretty grim

 

[belteshazzar]

Extraction is a good name to describe the genre, but it's not really the goal of these type of games. They borrow mainly from BR and roguelites to create something entirely new. They are at their core a looting game, with high risk, high reward mechanics. The games are PvPvE: when you enter a match, you're thrown into a big map with other players that are competing with you for the same resources. In a sense this is a free for all (or with small 2-3 man teams), but unlike BR games you start the game with the gear you bring with you and the objective is not to be the last man standing, but rather gather as much valuable loot as you can and then extract from the map (which you can do at any point after the match starts). In theory, you can avoid all humans the entire game if you want to, but if you're going for the good stuff then confrontations with other human players is inevitable, and if you have good loot other human players will hunt you. Also, the playable area never shrinks and there is a time limit. Additionally, there are also AI controlled enemies in the map that pose varying degrees of threat, with the riskiest ones netting you some juicy loot. Similar to roguelites, if you die in a game you lose everything you have on you (ammo, weapons, armor, gear, etc), but if you survive you keep everything you gathered for subsequent runs. Conversely, this means you can steal all the good gear from the players you encounter. In other words, it's really risky to go full Rambo guns blazing mode. These games reward patience and being sneaky; however, you can also use noise as a weapon against other players in creative ways. The "high" comes from being able to outsmart other players, kill them to get their loot, and escape with some really good valuables. Rinse and repeat. You get the "one more run" rush on you. Tarkov is used as the prime example, but to me this is the hardest point of entry to the genre, because there is so much more on top of everything I already mentioned, making it quite daunting for newcomers. For instance, the game has survival mechanics (food and drink), a really complex health system (damage to individual body parts that change gameplay, different damage types like bleeding or broken bones and different ways to heal them), an inventory management component, a very granular customization engine for your weapons (you can change any part in the guns, scopes, magazines, ammo type, etc), among other big things. Don't get me wrong, I love Tarkov, but it's very frustrating for a new player. I personally feel Hunt Showdown is a much better introduction to the genre, and I personally like the setting and weapons a lot more than that of Tarkov. These types of games are definitely not for everyone, but they might just be your next most favorite thing. I for one hope to see more of these types of games, experimenting with different genres, settings and mechanics.

 

[Party McHardy]

Shout out to Vigor!

Which is on consoles!

More people need to play this game. It incorporates the best of both genres : Battle Royale and the risk taking of Tarkov.

 

[duck_sauce]

Not a huge fan of Tarkov. Hunt Showdown does it way better IMO.

This man speaks the truth.

 

[jigglet]

Tarkov is hardcore as shit. There's only room for one or two major players, like Battle Royale, MOBA's, MMORPG's. Watch this trend last for 5 mins, once devs realise it's a hard market to crack they'll move onto the next thing.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

That's what that mode was? I never got around to it. That sounds sick.

Yes it was pretty amazing. Always seemed popular, too.

 

[KaiserBecks]

„Extraction“ isnt what makes Tarkov great though. I think a lot of developers dont seem to understand this. Nikita and his team created lightning in a bottle, nobody will replicate that.

 

[kuncol02]

I still don't quite get what developers are seeing

Permadeath means losing equipment. Losing equipment means losing progress. People will be more likely to pay in hope to finally recover from losing streak. It's just another gambling mechanizm adapted to video games.

 

[Batiman]

Meanwhile Apex Legends is the #4 played game on Steam behind Dota2.

I’m loving apex and love BR games. I didn’t mean played out in a bad way.

 

[Marvel]

Tarkov looks like a snooze fest and loses Doc half his viewers lol.

I prefer BR