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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
- Start date
What giant fish boss? I hope you're not talking about DMC2, because that's the worst boss in the entire series.
PensivePen
Member
I think he's referring to the Toad/Anglerfish, Dagon.
I think he's inoffensive but ultimately kind of boring, which describes a lot of DMC4's bosses.
IMO, Bael/Dagon is an amazing design, but mechanically the fight is very awkward and rather lackluster. Which covers the other two demon bosses as well. They have incredible visual designs, yet their fights could have been much better. Berial is the best of them, but his lack of anti-air/projectile moves makes his fight a bit awkward compared to the ones in 1 and 3, which for the most part could target the player from a long range. Others might experience it differently, but whenever I fight Berial I find myself thinking "if he could throw fireballs at me or rain flaming death from above he'd be a much more intense fight". Maybe it would make him seem like a Phantom redux, but Phantom is an amazing boss so I doubt anyone would care.
Yep, Belial is correct. Fun fact, Berial is referred to as Haborym (a demon from the Goetia) throughout the art book. Wonder why they decided to change the name.
It really bums me out that they wasted all these awesome names. Like, we fight Berial/Belial, Bael/Dagon and Echidna, yet don't get their weapons. And we get Gilgamesh, Pandora and Lucifer but never fight them.
Yep, Belial is correct. Fun fact, Berial is referred to as Haborym (a demon from the Goetia) throughout the art book. Wonder why they decided to change the name.
It really bums me out that they wasted all these awesome names. Like, we fight Berial/Belial, Bael/Dagon and Echidna, yet don't get their weapons. And we get Gilgamesh, Pandora and Lucifer but never fight them.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
the only good part of DMC4 bosses (except Angelo) is grabbing them with DT'd Nero and watching his QTE play out. So fighting them with any other character is really boring, and Lady especially can just 2 shot most of them.
Not all of them. The closest thing would be to do the dice roll gauntlet in Mission 19.
Yeah it sucks.
Ya thats what i was thinking, but credo doesn't show up there unfortunately.
I don't think Berial was intentional; DMC just can't escape the curse of transliteration errors - along with that and Nelo Angelo, Gloria's even listed as 'Grolia' internally. Nelo Angelo is still the most jarring example, though.
Leviathan? It was kind of boring - not as bad as Arkham or the Saviour, but it's not a pattern I'd want to see repeated.
Dante would never be able to do any sort of damage to Lucifer - he doesn't even learn Pierce.
Leviathan? It was kind of boring - not as bad as Arkham or the Saviour, but it's not a pattern I'd want to see repeated.
Dante would never be able to do any sort of damage to Lucifer - he doesn't even learn Pierce.
Well, at least since they messed up the name they can still technically use Belial, lol.
lol
Nocturne was such a wet dream for me at the time. Awesomely weird RPG where you fight and can recruit Dante to fight anything from Metatron to Beelzebub to Lucifer. Imagine if Dante was a guest character again in SMT5 or something.
lol
Nocturne was such a wet dream for me at the time. Awesomely weird RPG where you fight and can recruit Dante to fight anything from Metatron to Beelzebub to Lucifer. Imagine if Dante was a guest character again in SMT5 or something.
ArclightBorealis
Member
direct_quote
Member
Have some abysmally low numbers for Lady and Trish entries for GAF style tournament. I think the hype must have died down pretty fast... Anyway you have until Tuesday night at midnight to submit entries for Lady and Trish, and Next Tuesday night for Vergil..
FULL DETAILS ABOUT TOURNAMENT
QUOTE TO REVEAL THE SUBMISSION LINK FOR VIDEOS, It's a google docs form
[Entry format]
FULL DETAILS ABOUT TOURNAMENT
QUOTE TO REVEAL THE SUBMISSION LINK FOR VIDEOS, It's a google docs form
[Entry format]
- 3 categories for each of the new characters: Vergil, Lady, Trish (can enter all categories, win only 1).
- 30 seconds entry max
- Son of Sparda Difficulty or above (No LDK).
- No easy automatic mode.
- No Super Costumes.
- All levels of Bloody Palace can be used.
- No Piecing together multiple segments(clean cut).
- Lady and Trish entries due 8th of July 12:01 am, so a little more than one week.
- Vergil Entries due 15th of July 12:01 am, a little over 2 weeks
- Multiple entries can be submitted (if you plan this number them please), but you must clarify which entry is picked.
- Entries will be youtube uploaded videos from any system, QUOTE TO REVEAL GOOGLE FORM SIGN UP
Wouldn't the listed cutoff make the deadline midnight tonight?
Yup.
I'd enter for Trish and Lady if I actually played them. I just played Vergil this whole time lol.
direct_quote
Member
Yah you're right, guess I'll change that...
ArclightBorealis
Member
Shame still about the lack of Lady and Trish entries. Oh well.
At least I did my part. Gave everyone a chance.
At least I did my part. Gave everyone a chance.
I'm going to try to get something for each of the characters just to enter. It ain't gonna be pretty, but I'll scrape together what I can.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Just started playing the game as Nero on Devil Hunter mode and I was happily mowing through enemies, beating the special mission, and generally feeling like a huge badass! Then Berial whooped my butt and I had to use a Gold Orb to revive during the fight so I could kill him. Dying to the first boss in the game probably isn't a great sign haha.
What happens if I don't have a Gold Orb on me? Do I have to redo the entire level DMC3-style? I don't know if I have the patience for that, but if I just get dropped right back at the boss then I guess it isn't really a huge deal.
Also does the dodge have any iframes? I tried dodging Berial's attacks but I was still getting hit, so I found that doing a Buster grab (I don't know what it's called) to get up to his face was a better way of getting out of harm's way.
What happens if I don't have a Gold Orb on me? Do I have to redo the entire level DMC3-style? I don't know if I have the patience for that, but if I just get dropped right back at the boss then I guess it isn't really a huge deal.
Also does the dodge have any iframes? I tried dodging Berial's attacks but I was still getting hit, so I found that doing a Buster grab (I don't know what it's called) to get up to his face was a better way of getting out of harm's way.
If you don't have a Gold Orb, there's a continue system that will take you back to the last checkpoint. The checkpoint varies per level. It might not be right before the boss. DMC3SE also implemented a checkpoint system, actually.
The dodge roll has i-frames in the middle, and while it offers good horizontal clearance it has a pretty long recovery. The regular jump (straight up, forward, or backward) has i-frames during the startup, so you can use that as an effective dodge when timed correctly. This is universal across all characters.
Certain moves are designed to be avoided by simply running in a direction, like Berial's fire pillars.
Infinite Justice
Member
IIRC there is a checkpoint before you enter the area to fight him again.
that should be correct since i don't use gold orbs (or healing items/holy water) and fought him a few time to get a hang of his moves.
Nope there's enough checkpoints. One before every boss too.
badcrumble
Member
Heh, yeah. I think a projectile move is exactly what Berial needs.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Awesome, I don't mind replaying bosses to figure out their patterns but didn't really feel the urge of replaying an entire level just to get to the boss.
Guess I'll use the jump instead of the dodge then. Is there any situation in which you should use a dodge rather than a jump?
Guess I'll use the jump instead of the dodge then. Is there any situation in which you should use a dodge rather than a jump?
Honestly, I noticed a lot of the bosses in DMC4 were defense oriented. Frog-Angular leaves the battle and requires you to deal with the stand ins; Echidna runs around and then makes herself awkward to hit, Angel Man has a shield, and then, of course, there's the Mid/Final Boss who it a keep away fight with a regenerating shield.
Actually, this trend presents itself in a lot of the enemy design of the game; most standard monsters above the scarecrow level have some sort key defensive measure, sometimes multiple ones, that you have to really work against. It's what I didn't like about the enemies in the game. I'm not against shields, barriers, regeneration, evasion, and gimmicks in general, but DMC4 had way too much of it.
Actually, this trend presents itself in a lot of the enemy design of the game; most standard monsters above the scarecrow level have some sort key defensive measure, sometimes multiple ones, that you have to really work against. It's what I didn't like about the enemies in the game. I'm not against shields, barriers, regeneration, evasion, and gimmicks in general, but DMC4 had way too much of it.
ArclightBorealis
Member
Dodge seems to be the move to go with if you don't have the perfect timing for dodging an attack the moment right before it hits you (which is what the jump is for with its i-frames at the start). Something like Berial's lunge attack is an example of using a dodge as opposed to jump. He has that windup animation, but then he doesn't hit you immediately and is in the air for a certain period of his attack. During that, I usually initiate a dodge as I see him coming and that covers it.
Think of attacks based on how quickly they come out/respond to a previous action (some enemies have specific counter attacks when you hit on them enough). If it's really fast and you're up close, jump for the immediate i-frames. If you have a bit more time or distance to spare, you can dodge roll. Or jump if you can. It's really all situational.
Also, specifically in Nero's case, his ability Table Hopper (which you have to purchase) gives an incentive for dodging instead of jumping by changing the animation and shortening recovery time when you activate the dodge the moment right before the attack hits. With Table Hopper maxed out, you can do Trickster style quick dashes in any direction in a row. He's got the biggest incentive out of all the characters to use that kind of evasive move, everyone else it's often better to use their jump/Grim Trick/Trickster/what have you.
yep, it actually drives me up the wall really hard
for a lot of the enemies there's just too much waiting or forced 'break through their defense' instead of 'deal with their offense' which is more in line with the best dmc3 bosses (i can't say best dmc3 enemies 'cuz uh... yeahhhh)
edit:
is the deadline tonight or tomorrow? if the entry numbers are really that low i don't mind padding it out with my shitty submissions
It sounds like I'm super down on the bosses, but I think most of them are good. But all the years playing this game just makes the lacking elements stand out more in my mind.
4's faster gameplay, larger bosses, bigger arenas, and more air time overall due to the Devil Bringer and Dante's movement options mean that both the bosses and the player have bigger playing fields, but the bosses lack the tools to pressure the player beyond a certain point. Agnus is the only boss in 4 that has an attack with unlimited range, but which is easily interrupted, and Bael/Dagon is the only boss with an attack with full vertical range, but which is slow and very well telegraphed. In 3, most of the boss arenas have ceilings, and the most notable one that doesn't (Vergil 3) provides the boss with both projectiles, tracking attacks and death-from-aboves (Air Trick Helm Breaker).
I really wanted to enter with Lady/Trish, but I haven't that much time with the game and haven't gotten to Trish yet, so I sadly had to pass.
I think the deadlines might have been a bit too soon, because a lot of people are still occupied with the new characters' campaigns and unlocks, and it being summer probably doesn't help either.
4's faster gameplay, larger bosses, bigger arenas, and more air time overall due to the Devil Bringer and Dante's movement options mean that both the bosses and the player have bigger playing fields, but the bosses lack the tools to pressure the player beyond a certain point. Agnus is the only boss in 4 that has an attack with unlimited range, but which is easily interrupted, and Bael/Dagon is the only boss with an attack with full vertical range, but which is slow and very well telegraphed. In 3, most of the boss arenas have ceilings, and the most notable one that doesn't (Vergil 3) provides the boss with both projectiles, tracking attacks and death-from-aboves (Air Trick Helm Breaker).
I really wanted to enter with Lady/Trish, but I haven't that much time with the game and haven't gotten to Trish yet, so I sadly had to pass.
I think the deadlines might have been a bit too soon, because a lot of people are still occupied with the new characters' campaigns and unlocks, and it being summer probably doesn't help either.
direct_quote
Member
I could extend both deadlines if more people would be interested in sending in entries. The reason for a 2 week and 3 week deadline was to get people to submit entries while DMC4:SE was fresh in people's minds. If it was longer I'd fear people would forget about it...
I won't be able to enter either way as I'm going on vacation soon, so don't think about me. I was merely hoping to send in my entries before it became unfeasible. Anyway, there may be several factors at play. Some people are still occupied with the campaign, Trish and especially Lady are a bit harder to play efficiently than Vergil which might make creating entries a bit more intimidating, complicated and time-consuming, and we're in the middle of the summer. There might also be a lack of awareness for a number of reasons as well.
My personal suggestions would be extend the deadline for Lady and Trish and have them be a week after Vergil. And create a topic for it, which might help raise awareness.
I'd be down. The reason I didn't submit anything for the ladies was because I was going to submit something for Vergil.
direct_quote
Member
Yah I think if I extend it I'd have to create a new topic, might consider that... I don't think I need permission to do that right?
Yah probably extending it, so please do submit...
I don't think so. Might even attract other folks outside the regulars in this thread to check out what GAF players can do and vote.
I think it all works well enough with Nero and his devil bringer, but only him.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Getting the hang of the combat but man this game ain't easy haha. I'm so used to games being a cakewalk on Normal but I died to two of those ice enemies in mission 4 because I was careless. Honestly the camera in this game sucks ass since I feel like half the time enemies attack me from off-camera. Guess I just need to get used to it.
Yeah, I just stuck with the ladies for my first time through, and then started Vergil's. Good thing there is that by the time you beat at least one game mode, you'll likely have more than enough Souls to power up someone else starting out.
Sadly, once I switched over to Vergil, I found that I was very free on his versions of the Snatching Grim Grips sections. Still the bane of me after all these years...
darkslayer101
Member
can we expect anything DMC related this gamescom guys?
played loads of hrs on 4SE and thirsty for more DMC
played loads of hrs on 4SE and thirsty for more DMC
BKatastrophe
Member
Echidna is actually one of my favorite DMC bosses period. Something about her is just really damn fun. Especially as Dante. She isn't that deep mechanically or anything. She certainly doesn't have the gravitas or epicness of any of the truly good boss fights within the series, but she's super fun for me and that's important.
Plus, a fight every now and then does make life a little more interesting. Dontcha think?
Like, she doesn't fit into a "type," you know? Lady is all about mid-to-long range control and high damage. Dante is all about variety and style. Nero is all about enhancements: Devil Bringer animations can be extended (and buffed even more using his DT) and the Exceed function enhances basic sword attacks. Hell, even Nero's DT itself is given extra moves and gives Nero and overall bigger move set, rather than just serve as an enhancements. Vergil is all about mobility and crowd control, and his Summon Swords are the most versatile projectile weapon in the game next to Dante's Pandora.
What does Trish have? I guess she has an emphasis on crowd control and high damage, but even then her damage output really doesn't touch the other characters, especially not on Lady's or Vergil's levels. I suppose you could argue that she's about traps, what with her lingering lightning and Round Trip shenanigans, but even then it's an incredibly weak focus based on her existing move set.
Even her meter management game is significantly weaker than the others. Beyond just the DT gauge (and in Lady's case, Burst), she really doesn't have anything. Granted, Lady doesn't either, but at least Lady is a completely unique character in terms of play style. Dante has the Royal gauge and Destruction meter; Vergil has Concentration; Nero has Exceed, all of those are intricate mechanics in their own right. Trish has a Round Trip gauge. That's literally it, unless I'm missing something on how the whole Sparda sword gauge functions. I mean fuck, even Lady's Charge gauge is more important.
In fact, Trish's DT gauge game is weak on its own. Dante, Vergil, and Nero all get buffs to basic moves., just like Trish. Vergil and Nero get bigger movesets on top of that, and on top of that Vergil's DT gauge is insanely important because of his Summon Swords. And Lady's gauge is arguable the most important resource she has, since it's a one and done. Can't turn it on and off real quick. It's a one off and then your ass is waiting, and even then the power is strictly dictated by how full that thing is.
Now granted, Trish's Pandora laser does use some DT, but it's easily one of the most impractical (though definitely one of the most damaging) moves in the game. Still, her DT gauge is about on the same level as Dante's in terms of overall "importance" when it comes to her mechanics, which means it exists only in the most basic "make me better" sense and nothing more (aside from Pandora laser, but I've already argued against that as well).
Now, keep in mind I've only played Trish for her campaign on Devil Hunter and that's it. I haven't really spent time digging into her tech, so this is all first impression based. Feel free to correct me and open my eyes, but the way I see it she's the weakest character in the game. And don't take me wrong, she's fun as hell (as all the characters are), she just doesn't have anything and it's a bummer.
Plus, a fight every now and then does make life a little more interesting. Dontcha think?
I always thought it was a weird decision to name the weapons different. On the other hand, I could argue that Dante's just taking back the Devil Arms that the Order used to create those Gates, as opposed to him taking the soul of the demon directly as he did in DMC3. I mean he didn't get any of the demon's souls as weapons in DMC1. Instead, he got other demonic weapons (Alastor and Ifrit).
I'd like Trish more if she wasn't so mechanically bare. She has very few weapons and feels incredibly and extraordinarily weak on a mechanical level. She also has nothing to herself really. I mean I guess wielding two completely different and unique weapon styles at the same time is cool and all, but she has nothing that makes her...her.
Like, she doesn't fit into a "type," you know? Lady is all about mid-to-long range control and high damage. Dante is all about variety and style. Nero is all about enhancements: Devil Bringer animations can be extended (and buffed even more using his DT) and the Exceed function enhances basic sword attacks. Hell, even Nero's DT itself is given extra moves and gives Nero and overall bigger move set, rather than just serve as an enhancements. Vergil is all about mobility and crowd control, and his Summon Swords are the most versatile projectile weapon in the game next to Dante's Pandora.
What does Trish have? I guess she has an emphasis on crowd control and high damage, but even then her damage output really doesn't touch the other characters, especially not on Lady's or Vergil's levels. I suppose you could argue that she's about traps, what with her lingering lightning and Round Trip shenanigans, but even then it's an incredibly weak focus based on her existing move set.
Even her meter management game is significantly weaker than the others. Beyond just the DT gauge (and in Lady's case, Burst), she really doesn't have anything. Granted, Lady doesn't either, but at least Lady is a completely unique character in terms of play style. Dante has the Royal gauge and Destruction meter; Vergil has Concentration; Nero has Exceed, all of those are intricate mechanics in their own right. Trish has a Round Trip gauge. That's literally it, unless I'm missing something on how the whole Sparda sword gauge functions. I mean fuck, even Lady's Charge gauge is more important.
In fact, Trish's DT gauge game is weak on its own. Dante, Vergil, and Nero all get buffs to basic moves., just like Trish. Vergil and Nero get bigger movesets on top of that, and on top of that Vergil's DT gauge is insanely important because of his Summon Swords. And Lady's gauge is arguable the most important resource she has, since it's a one and done. Can't turn it on and off real quick. It's a one off and then your ass is waiting, and even then the power is strictly dictated by how full that thing is.
Now granted, Trish's Pandora laser does use some DT, but it's easily one of the most impractical (though definitely one of the most damaging) moves in the game. Still, her DT gauge is about on the same level as Dante's in terms of overall "importance" when it comes to her mechanics, which means it exists only in the most basic "make me better" sense and nothing more (aside from Pandora laser, but I've already argued against that as well).
Now, keep in mind I've only played Trish for her campaign on Devil Hunter and that's it. I haven't really spent time digging into her tech, so this is all first impression based. Feel free to correct me and open my eyes, but the way I see it she's the weakest character in the game. And don't take me wrong, she's fun as hell (as all the characters are), she just doesn't have anything and it's a bummer.
BumblebeeCody
Member
^ only thing is, Pandora Revenge(Laser canon) does he it's combo uses. Mainly because it has no charge up like Dantes. I wouldn't really say it's impractical but it is more of a combo finisher.
Some people just get drawn to certain bosses. There's another really good player who just fights Shadow Dante.
Berial is a great way to practice with Dante.
For ShinMaruku:
That Distortion video I was talking about on stream last night
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mcdeAba8L2A
Some people just get drawn to certain bosses. There's another really good player who just fights Shadow Dante.
Berial is a great way to practice with Dante.
For ShinMaruku:
That Distortion video I was talking about on stream last night
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mcdeAba8L2A
Probably not.
ShinMaruku
Member
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Playing the Asian disc version of DMC4. Any clue who to select the bonus outfits for Trish and Lady? Seems like the alternate outfits work for the other characters, but not for them. The 300,000 orbs code worked fine and the game confirms that there has been DLC downloaded, but even after completing the game with Lady and Trish, it still won't give me access to their extra outfits. Any clue as to what is going on? I am playing on a US PS4.