Good enough for me.
Devil's Advocate: Why should I trust Nintendo Switch to be any different than Wii U?
- Thread starter RedZaraki
- Start date
Good enough for me.
Joeshabadoo
Member
only a relatively small subset know them as Wii U games, and a vast majority of those people never owned a Wii U anyway. Giving them a healthy dose of new content and a visual spit-shine/upgrade with not a ton of effort is actually doing right by most of the market. plus many of them had fairly healthy multiplayer communities and you want them to have a nice compelling new home on the new device, avoid dividing them
Jaded Alyx
Member
It should have more third party output too for the same reason.
Jaded Alyx
Member
There is literally no difference. A portable console and a handheld console are the same thing. The words handheld and portable have been used interchangeably for years.
Leafhopper
Banned
Because it's a portable console instead of a handheld I think the 3rd party games I would like more from Japan since I can't see a Switch in a packed train somewhere.
This is all speculation mind you.
I don't think so. Also the Switch is too big for what I think it needs to be.
I agree. If people's idea of 3rd party support is only western AAA titles sure but it should get as much 3rd party support that the 3ds or vita had which is a lot. Hell that's the only thing selling on vita for awhile.
Are there words missing in your first sentence?
With first party output? You missed out a bit.
ViolentP
Member
I think power output has had a lot to do with the distinction between the two. Switch should help blur those lines more than ever, but as long as there is a difference between performance of the two, you will have the separation.
Controller support is a big culprit. I loved the Gamecube but simply could not get into the Wii or Wii U mainly due to the lack of traditional controls. And even the best games won't shine if you're not comfortable controlling them.
Leafhopper
Banned
Yeah there was whoops, let me reword that. I was saying was I think the games I would like from Japan would be less because I don't think the Switch will be as common on the go as a PSP or obviously a phone.
Again speculation obviously but, I don't know.
ahkdigital
Neo Member
Very carefully.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I'm looking at it like this: I see less Third Party announced support for Switch than the Wii U, so I already know what to expect there. I'm sure it'll be a lot better with indies. The good thing though is that I don't buy Nintendo for third parties. So as a home console I know it'll be worth less to me than as a portable handheld gaming device. And thats ignoring the power disparity and the fact that Nintendo's online offering is a cheaper than cheap, except with a forum.
Having owned a Wii U, I don't see the value of announced ports. A Splatoon port, even with added content, interests me less than even TitanFall 2. Smash interests me less than MvC Infinite. Then I'm back to hoping for a port of the aforementioned games which puts me back to step #1.
Thus, I'm holding out for more original content besides Zelda BotW and 3D Mario, and hopefully more exclusive experiences like Rabbids+Mario. I'm no longer interested in the specs of the thing. I've grown tired of talking about what it could theoretically run or taunting fanatical rumors like "Person X said Dark Souls is running so they're going to stuff Dark Souls 1-3 on a cart because it only makes sense!" I just want to see games. And I'm going to give them a chance to wow me with my low expectations on Jan 12th/13th.
It has a chance to really impress me like the Vita and 3DS before it as a portable system, but the console/Wii U part 2 vibes I'm getting a lot of the time really puts me off. I'm going to try to think of it more like a 3DS Part 2, although it's lacking the variety of the 3DS' support so far I'm sure its coming down the pipeline.
Having owned a Wii U, I don't see the value of announced ports. A Splatoon port, even with added content, interests me less than even TitanFall 2. Smash interests me less than MvC Infinite. Then I'm back to hoping for a port of the aforementioned games which puts me back to step #1.
Thus, I'm holding out for more original content besides Zelda BotW and 3D Mario, and hopefully more exclusive experiences like Rabbids+Mario. I'm no longer interested in the specs of the thing. I've grown tired of talking about what it could theoretically run or taunting fanatical rumors like "Person X said Dark Souls is running so they're going to stuff Dark Souls 1-3 on a cart because it only makes sense!" I just want to see games. And I'm going to give them a chance to wow me with my low expectations on Jan 12th/13th.
It has a chance to really impress me like the Vita and 3DS before it as a portable system, but the console/Wii U part 2 vibes I'm getting a lot of the time really puts me off. I'm going to try to think of it more like a 3DS Part 2, although it's lacking the variety of the 3DS' support so far I'm sure its coming down the pipeline.
Steve Youngblood
Member
For me personally, I don't really view console purchases as investments. If I want the released games and/or the games I know* are coming in the near future and the price is satisfactory, I'll buy. If the launch window isn't satisfying enough, I'll wait. If you're having to ask this question because you're afraid you'll get burned, I'd just wait. I'm not trying to antagonize people who do think this way, but I just don't see any point in trying to look into a crystal ball to guess at whether or not games I'm interested are going to be releasing at a steady pace in two to three years. If after the event in 8 days you find yourself intrigued but not totally enamored, just wait a bit and see how things shake out.
*Yes, I know that even a "sure thing" can be cancelled for any of a myriad of reasons, but I just mean waiting for confirmation that something is definitely coming and has tangible progress as opposed to just buying because I assume stuff like Mario Kart 9 or Smash 5 are coming eventually.
*Yes, I know that even a "sure thing" can be cancelled for any of a myriad of reasons, but I just mean waiting for confirmation that something is definitely coming and has tangible progress as opposed to just buying because I assume stuff like Mario Kart 9 or Smash 5 are coming eventually.
I do value traditional controls much less because I consider them inferior, but fair enough.
I don't get how the WiiU gamepad is not traditional.
I do think the actual factors will be:
Audience. As usual. A Yokai Watch makes total sense. A schoolgirl which is totally a 1000 year old demon less sense.
Power. For some Vita/3DS developers it might be a too big of a jump. But its less of a jump than PS4, while being close to it.
Architecture. Modern tools like Unity and Unreal are getting more widespread and as far we know, Switch supports them perfectly.
Gonna be interesting.
Leafhopper
Banned
The only platform I ever got on launch day 1 was the Nintendo DS which, wasn't that great for me so I agree with just waiting.
Jaded Alyx
Member
What is really non traditional about the Wii U's controls?
Even if you don't like the size or whatever of the Gamepad, the Pro Controller is an option.
I have seen a lot of sensible posts in this thread.
This is the most sensible one:
Because it's the one I would have written, holler
This is the most sensible one:
Because it's the one I would have written, holler
ViolentP
Member
All of this is subjective, of course. There were obviously millions of people that loved the Wii controls and many that thought Wii U gamepad was fine.
Speaking from personal experience, the other day on a whim, I decided to plug my Wii U back in and purchased Xenoblade Chronicles. Was looking for something new and I caught myself surprisingly excited to play it. After about an hour though, I just kinda shelved it. That gamepad makes me feel like I'm holding a keyboard with analog sticks and less than ideal placement of triggers. In other words, I couldn't forget the controller was in my hand which kept me out of the game. I even tried using it like a handheld thinking maybe that would somehow be different but unsurprisingly, it wasn't.
The size is a huge factor. And not every game supported the Pro Controller. The idea of having to purchase extra equipment to play it comfortably seemed like a bad idea, but I purchased it anyway. Unfortunately, XC required a Wii gamepad. At that point, I decided to cut my losses.
James Scott
Banned
Some issues with 3DS and Wii U that I don't think Switch is will have:
Wii U launched at $300-350 with weak and old tech due to the Gamepad which was an unappealing and confusing to consumers
Switch is a portable that plugs into the TV. Appeals to those that like portable and console gaming and it's simple to understand.
3DS launched with the looming threat of Vita with better tech, same price, and all the promise in the world.
No Vita successor and it's still fairly cutting edge tech in the portable space.
3DS launched with such compelling content as Steel Diver and Pilot Wings. "Best game" was an old port of SFIV
Wii U had NSMBU with the only thing to look forward to was...Pikmin 3.
Switch has a Mario that's "finished" and Zelda that's seemingly aiming for launch/window.
Wii U's old architecture made it harder to develop for. Switch is still weaker than PS4, but it still sounds like it's fairly easy to develop for.
Wii U and 3DS development ate into each other's development resources. Nintendo had to choose which system was better for a given game and having to develop doubles like NSMB2 and NSMbU meant fans felt fine sticking with 3DS and skipping Wii U most of the time. Fewer software was made for both since Nintendo had to juggle its resources more.
Nintendo also has a generation of HD development which should help with Switch game production
Wii U launched at $300-350 with weak and old tech due to the Gamepad which was an unappealing and confusing to consumers
Switch is a portable that plugs into the TV. Appeals to those that like portable and console gaming and it's simple to understand.
3DS launched with the looming threat of Vita with better tech, same price, and all the promise in the world.
No Vita successor and it's still fairly cutting edge tech in the portable space.
3DS launched with such compelling content as Steel Diver and Pilot Wings. "Best game" was an old port of SFIV
Wii U had NSMBU with the only thing to look forward to was...Pikmin 3.
Switch has a Mario that's "finished" and Zelda that's seemingly aiming for launch/window.
Wii U's old architecture made it harder to develop for. Switch is still weaker than PS4, but it still sounds like it's fairly easy to develop for.
Wii U and 3DS development ate into each other's development resources. Nintendo had to choose which system was better for a given game and having to develop doubles like NSMB2 and NSMbU meant fans felt fine sticking with 3DS and skipping Wii U most of the time. Fewer software was made for both since Nintendo had to juggle its resources more.
Nintendo also has a generation of HD development which should help with Switch game production
GoldenCrow
Member
If you don't like what they did the prior generations then you don't. Nothing really seems to be much different. It is the same noises made by developers and usual lack of information about games. It is hardware with a quirk at the centre of it to find the elusive market Nintendo likes to chase.
What they did show was Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, a last generation game and a few Wii U games. If that appeals to you and you like the prior gens of what Nintendo did then the Switch is most likely for you.
What they did show was Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, a last generation game and a few Wii U games. If that appeals to you and you like the prior gens of what Nintendo did then the Switch is most likely for you.
You shouldn't. You should wait a good couple months before making any sort of purchasing decision. Let early adopters find the bugs and kinks. Let Nintendo rectify the situations that arise and save your money. There's little to no reason to be an early adopter besides "needing to have it" syndrome. Just look through history. Console launches are always rocky and usually never launch with great lineups. Best to hold onto your money, see reactions and maybe even get some shit on sale down the line.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
It's been a long LONG ass time since I 'trusted' any of the console manufacturers and bought at launch, I usually give it at least 6-8 months to see how a consoles library and prospects are shaping up before purchasing.
Reduces the risk of wasteful expenditure and frustration, at the cost of not playing day (or even Month) one, a fair trade in my view.
Reduces the risk of wasteful expenditure and frustration, at the cost of not playing day (or even Month) one, a fair trade in my view.
DarkestHour
Banned
I'm going to buy one ASAP in fears it will be like the NES Classic where you can't find one in stores for months after it comes out.
For the OP, I wouldn't trust Nintendo and I don't, but I'm taking a gamble like I did on the Wii U. Sometimes gambles pay off.
Leafhopper
Banned
Various games required the gamepad because Nintendo forces some rigged control scheme you can't change because of a lack of options (for a lot of First party Nintendo games actually) and the way they wanted people to play it. Not a big fan when they build a game around the controller anymore.
mrmickfran
Member
Wii U didn't have 1 game in 2016:
Twilight Princess
Paper Mario
Star Fox
Pokken
Tokyo Mirage
Twilight Princess
Paper Mario
Star Fox
Pokken
Tokyo Mirage
still a garbage year tho lmao
Pokemon Company is developing games for Switch.
There is your most blatant difference.
Look again.
JinjoUnchained
Member
I wish Switch turns out like Wii U, but with longer legs. The Wii U library is my favorite since the SNES and I've gotten way more than my money's worth. If anything, I hope Switch isn't a step backwards from Wii U in terms of software quality.
GiantBreadbug
Member
There's a pretty big difference in the situations. Wii U getting western third party games was simply an impossibility for the largest part, whereas Switch seems to be capable of handling most of them. The deciding factor will be whether those third parties see the Switch audience buying their games (I think they will).
In any case, Nintendo's first party efforts are more streamlined and organized now, so we can hopefully expect a decent flow of first party games. Honestly Nintendo software droughts are the only thing I didn't like about Wii U, so they could pull a Wii U 2 and I'd be fine (since Wii U is a consistent library of some of their best games).
Basically this is a totally different ballgame. Many things are going to factor into the success and life of the Switch that had nothing to do with the Wii U, and vice versa.
In any case, Nintendo's first party efforts are more streamlined and organized now, so we can hopefully expect a decent flow of first party games. Honestly Nintendo software droughts are the only thing I didn't like about Wii U, so they could pull a Wii U 2 and I'd be fine (since Wii U is a consistent library of some of their best games).
Basically this is a totally different ballgame. Many things are going to factor into the success and life of the Switch that had nothing to do with the Wii U, and vice versa.
Jeronimo Jones
Member
Hope and optimism mostly. Waiting would be wiser in almost any launch situation but where's the fun in that?
If a $300 bet could mess up your finances indefinitely, don't do it.
If a $300 bet could mess up your finances indefinitely, don't do it.
The Pokémon Company put out 2 games for the Wii U
I know, you mean GAME FREAK, but I couldn't resist
DarkConfidant
Member
I don't buy the "it's replacing 3DS" argument simply because the type of game development that goes on that platform is very different from console development.
The costs are significantly lower, because the 3DS tech is vastly weaker hardware. I really doubt we'll be seeing many 3DS-quality* games side by side with Wii U-quality* games. Even if we see a few, Wii U still had plenty of indies, but that still didn't supplement what a small total library and short lifespan the Wii U had.
Pokemon is 1 game, and 1st party at that. If we just get more 1st party games, of mobile proportions, it'll still result in a similar outcome to the Wii U. If one didn't like the Wii U, I'm not sure how much they would be happy with that hypothetical Switch library.
* Quality in regards to production costs and graphics. I'm not saying that's the only or main way of looking at games. I'm just looking at development costs, and a little at how Nintendo will market
The costs are significantly lower, because the 3DS tech is vastly weaker hardware. I really doubt we'll be seeing many 3DS-quality* games side by side with Wii U-quality* games. Even if we see a few, Wii U still had plenty of indies, but that still didn't supplement what a small total library and short lifespan the Wii U had.
Pokemon is 1 game, and 1st party at that. If we just get more 1st party games, of mobile proportions, it'll still result in a similar outcome to the Wii U. If one didn't like the Wii U, I'm not sure how much they would be happy with that hypothetical Switch library.
* Quality in regards to production costs and graphics. I'm not saying that's the only or main way of looking at games. I'm just looking at development costs, and a little at how Nintendo will market
humansarehorses
Member
I'm waiting to see more but regardless, I'm not picking one up anytime soon. It's not like the Switch is going anywhere and there are way too many non-Switch games I want to buy.
I think this is a very fair point to make.
If a console has you second guessing its future it's best to wait until you feel satsfied enough to male a purchase. To avoid that "burned" feeling.
Agnostic Priest
Member
I made the mistake of buying a Wii u at launch. I'll be waiting a year before picking up the switch to see what they do with it!
Barry Burton
Member
I doubt it will be a whole lot different on the third-party side. Maybe we'll see some improvement (I'm not sure it could be worse than the Wii U) but I expect that the bulk of multi-platform PS4/XBO/PC games will skip the Switch.
On the first-party side, it should be a big step-up from Wii U. All of Nintendo's development efforts will be on the Switch instead of being split across multiple platforms. The transition between generations should also go smoother, now that they've had years making HD games; they were also spread really thin between 2010 and 2012, making games for four platforms during that stretch. Considering how weak their lineups were in 2015 and especially 2016, they should be able to avoid the weak launch and post-launch windows that the 3DS and Wii U suffered from.
In the big picture, the Switch represents the biggest crossroads Nintendo has faced as a games-maker. They've never been less relevant in the home console market, and the dedicated handheld market is waning. They were at a similar, though less dire place following the GameCube/GBA years and they responded with their most successful platforms ever. Now, the Switch may not end up being a market success but considering where things stand, you have to expect that we're going to get Nintendo's best effort. It's hard to envision a scenario where the Switch isn't a much, much better overall product than the Wii U was.
On the first-party side, it should be a big step-up from Wii U. All of Nintendo's development efforts will be on the Switch instead of being split across multiple platforms. The transition between generations should also go smoother, now that they've had years making HD games; they were also spread really thin between 2010 and 2012, making games for four platforms during that stretch. Considering how weak their lineups were in 2015 and especially 2016, they should be able to avoid the weak launch and post-launch windows that the 3DS and Wii U suffered from.
In the big picture, the Switch represents the biggest crossroads Nintendo has faced as a games-maker. They've never been less relevant in the home console market, and the dedicated handheld market is waning. They were at a similar, though less dire place following the GameCube/GBA years and they responded with their most successful platforms ever. Now, the Switch may not end up being a market success but considering where things stand, you have to expect that we're going to get Nintendo's best effort. It's hard to envision a scenario where the Switch isn't a much, much better overall product than the Wii U was.
Nintendo output on the Wii U has been stellar, so for me that's good enough.
Third party is a wait and see and we will probably have a glimpse of the overall situation on their event in Jan 12.
Not sure if performing surgery on a rocket or if performing surgery while doing time attack.
Third party is a wait and see and we will probably have a glimpse of the overall situation on their event in Jan 12.
Not sure if performing surgery on a rocket or if performing surgery while doing time attack.
Pejo
Member
Other than Monster Hunter, I never buy Nintendo consoles for 3rd party games anymore. Wii U gave us a lot of great games, just not 3rd party mostly. I expect Switch to be at least as good as Wii U, so it should be fine. Plus I love the idea of a dockable console (but damn my entertainment system clutter).
Since it will be the only Nintendo console it will get more first party support, but everything lies in third party support as always.
What's really hard for most of the Nintendo fans to comprehend is that third party support and sales, even without exclusives, is way more important than first party exclusives and their success, look at Vita, despite Sony not supporting it and not having many eclusives anymore it has lots of games coming while the Wiiu not.
I hope switch will get all the support of the world because i don't want handhelds to die.
What's really hard for most of the Nintendo fans to comprehend is that third party support and sales, even without exclusives, is way more important than first party exclusives and their success, look at Vita, despite Sony not supporting it and not having many eclusives anymore it has lots of games coming while the Wiiu not.
I hope switch will get all the support of the world because i don't want handhelds to die.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I mean, what difference does it make? If you think it might be a bust, just wait and see.
If it's great, you eventually buy it (perhaps cheaper than at launch) and get to play the games all the same.
If it sucks, you save yourself a bunch of money.
If it's great, you eventually buy it (perhaps cheaper than at launch) and get to play the games all the same.
If it sucks, you save yourself a bunch of money.
This mostly. So instead of 3-4 games a year from Nintendo you'll get like 8-10.
James Scott
Banned
by "it's replacing 3DS" we mean it's going to appeal to the portable market and likely Japan getting support from there.
Development is still cheaper than high end PS4 and they can keep releasing budget titles like they did with Wii U.
You don't have to split game releases between two systems either
No, I don't think the question should be Switch will be any different than the Wii U, I think the question should be can anyone trust Nintendo after the way they handle the 3DS and the Wii U, in order to give the Switch it's rumored software lineup. Unlike the GameCube and Gameboy Advance, the Wii U and 3DS genre depth is lacking. The 3DS only have like 6 brand new first party releases in the North America 2 which was 2 platforms, RPG game(s), a party game and (whatever federation forces is trying to be???). We saw in the GameCube era Nintendo was putting forth there best foot with a decent number various types of games. It feels like the Wii U didn't get this point at all and to some extent the 3DS as well. What happens with the next system after the Switch? Will Nintendo drop the ball again? Will Nintendo take from the Switch to propup the Switch_Next_Gen?
Fabtacular
Member
You have to wonder if there won't be a $100 attachment that quadruples the portable battery life.
Could also serve as a protective case.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
You shouldn't. There's no reason to think it will be any different.