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DF Direct Special: Next-Gen Xbox/Series X Refresh - Microsoft/FTC Leak Reaction
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Curious if this is before or after discussing the PR with Spencer.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Already watched this, basically they think xbox will NOT be releaseing a pro console.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
I think neither MS nor Sony will.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
PS5 Pro” console to put Microsoft under pressure?
Given the current sales figures, they don't even need that
Let me guess for Bugaga the Pro isn't a good idea right??
Given the current sales figures, they don't even need that
Let me guess for Bugaga the Pro isn't a good idea right??
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yeah, the leaked documents basically confirm that. DF isn't bringing anything new to the table here.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
skit_data
Member
Listened to it and while nothing mindblowing they did being up something pretty curious about Xboxs plan for next gen plans and that features seem to be more akin to Nvidias stuff than AMDs.
It's of course possible they have access to an internal roadmap and that that stuff is indeed in development but if it for some reason isn't it's a pretty wierd look. I don't think AMD would be happy knowing they might plan on going with their competitor next gen.
It's of course possible they have access to an internal roadmap and that that stuff is indeed in development but if it for some reason isn't it's a pretty wierd look. I don't think AMD would be happy knowing they might plan on going with their competitor next gen.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Seemed like for him the mere idea is a hard pill to swallow. LolPS5 Pro” console to put Microsoft under pressure?
Given the current sales figures, they don't even need that
Let me guess for Bugaga the Pro isn't a good idea right??
TheRedRiders
Member
Nvidia have always been the greatest pioneers in the graphics industry for more than 20 years now, AMD has always followed in their footsteps and now these documents further prove this. Nvidia could have easily predicted AMD's roadmap for the next 5 years especially in terms of major feature sets like AI/ML cores and more domain specific accelerators especially for ray-tracing workloads.
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graywolf323
Member
DF’s turnaround on Pro consoles is so weird to see between last gen and this gen 
and the only real difference is this gen it seems like Xbox isn’t going to have one
and the only real difference is this gen it seems like Xbox isn’t going to have one
Nonehxc
Member
PS5 Pro” console to put Microsoft under pressure?
Given the current sales figures, they don't even need that
Let me guess for Bugaga the Pro isn't a good idea right??
Bukkaka only likes when Jensen introduces his Nvidia shaped, leather covered, Crysis themed GPU into his PCI Express in...
MAXIMUM STRENGHT
And then asks him...
'Can you run it?'
If PS5 Pro releases with the kind of Cerny's RT Secret Sauce we've been getting snippets of, and a 500-600 console is 60-75% of his moist 3000$ 4090... he's gonna have such a meltdown there won't be enough dicks at Berghain for him to suck and comfort himself.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well they should be excited for better tech. That's part of their job.
GHG
Member
DF’s turnaround on Pro consoles is so weird to see between last gen and this gen
and the only real difference is this gen it seems like Xbox isn’t going to have one
As a tech focused channel you would think that they would be wetting themselves at the prospect of more powerful hardware, but alas, if Xbox aren't doing it then they aren't allowed to get excited for it.
MasterCornholio
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
GHG
Member
It's not better unless Microsoft slip them an envelope and say so.
That's why.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Now we have to deal with all the idiots that will conclude that if MS isn’t making a pro console then surely neither is Sony, because somehow that makes sense.
FalsettoVibe
Member
What do you know man? lol
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What I find most curious is that they told DF way back in 2020 that there would no XSX Slim or XSX Pro. And that they CANT do it.
You have to wonder just why? Why CANT they do it?
Sony isnt just making a Pro, they are also making a slim because the slim will cost them less while increasing the userbase and the pro will allow them to sell it to all the double dippers at a higher profit margin.
MS needs to ask some hard questions to their engineering teams. Why cant you do something that has been a standard for Sony since the 1990s.
You have to wonder just why? Why CANT they do it?
Sony isnt just making a Pro, they are also making a slim because the slim will cost them less while increasing the userbase and the pro will allow them to sell it to all the double dippers at a higher profit margin.
MS needs to ask some hard questions to their engineering teams. Why cant you do something that has been a standard for Sony since the 1990s.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Sounds like they did ask the engineering team, and the response was We Can't Do It.
Crayon
Member
They can't do it because they bungled the sx and it costs way too much to make. PS5 pro could have a lower bom.
But AMD does custom hardware so the DF crew talking about Nvidia this and that seems like PR for the company,I had to roll my eyes with that segment.
AMD brought Xilinx and they have an A.I engine on their mobile CPUs. Outside of coast, there's nothing stopping Microsoft from having a AMD GPU different from the desktop version in terms of functionality.
Del_X
Member
midnightAI
Banned
Next gen DirectX Raytracing... only NVidia is doing that...
Del_X
Member
DF’s turnaround on Pro consoles is so weird to see between last gen and this gen
and the only real difference is this gen it seems like Xbox isn’t going to have one
I'd rather see a new gen sooner. The aliasing was so bad on base consoles last gen that chasing HDR and higher resolutions felt significant. More rays and better framerates... idk man just buy a PC at that point.
sendit
Member
TLDR;
Highlights:
Highlights:
The leak of highly confidential documents compromises Microsoft's information and that of its third-party partners.
The leaked roadmap reveals mid-generation refreshes and the potential removal of the Blu-ray drive in future Xbox Series X models.
Concerns are raised about preservation and access to older games without a physical media option.
The shift towards digital media is discussed, with PC gaming already mostly digital.
The impact on backwards compatibility and the future of physical games is questioned.- Supporters express negative reactions and concerns about leaving certain players behind without a physical media option.
LordBlodgett
Member
Are you kidding me? Almost everyone thought DF was pro Sony during the PS4/Xbox One time period. Now you think they are pro Xbox?DF’s turnaround on Pro consoles is so weird to see between last gen and this gen
and the only real difference is this gen it seems like Xbox isn’t going to have one
Lysandros
Member
Man... Their take on PS5 vs. XSX hardware comparison is beyond basic, it's just stubbornly ignorant to point of idiocy. That was pathetic and truly painful to watch. They are still spreading the same pure FUD in the third year of the generation without feeling any bit of shame. They shouldn't be considered an authority on anything. At this time i wholeheartedly declare the average poster of these forums to be more knowledgeable about these systems than those delusional clowns, i am not kidding.
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Intel, PowerVR and AMD also implemented ray tracing, while Nvidia is doing well on the PC side, console implementation just has to be more efficient and easier to use.
Horseganador
Member
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Lysandros
Member
After apparently. They are still parroting his gibberish without changing a letter. They aren't any less delusional than Phil, they are still feeding and cherishing his imaginary creation.
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midnightAI
Banned
Sorry, thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic, DirectX is Microsoft, it isn't exclusive to NVidia
midnightAI
Banned
Depends which DF host you talk to.
SportsFan581
Member
I think they overplay a few things there.
1). I don't really see how a system without a drive changes the landscape in regards to how their store would be viewed by regulators, MS allows keys to be sold by third-party vendors and their is some price variances.
2). Arm can emulate X86 relatively well as it is and the clock differences aren't so much a limitation of the technology as they are a byproduct of those parts typically being designed for power limited products. If they didn't mind giving up some of the power per watt advantage of ARM, they could design a product with higher clocks. Assuming that they are designing a custom chip (they already do custom designs for datacenter I believe), the pressure wouldn't be there regarding the power efficiency (not for laptop/mobile).
Though with Spencer saying these plans aren't current, they might not mean a thing about products we actually see.
1). I don't really see how a system without a drive changes the landscape in regards to how their store would be viewed by regulators, MS allows keys to be sold by third-party vendors and their is some price variances.
2). Arm can emulate X86 relatively well as it is and the clock differences aren't so much a limitation of the technology as they are a byproduct of those parts typically being designed for power limited products. If they didn't mind giving up some of the power per watt advantage of ARM, they could design a product with higher clocks. Assuming that they are designing a custom chip (they already do custom designs for datacenter I believe), the pressure wouldn't be there regarding the power efficiency (not for laptop/mobile).
Though with Spencer saying these plans aren't current, they might not mean a thing about products we actually see.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
What I know is I would move large amounts of chips to the center of the table betting on the appearance of a PS5 Pro
Nonehxc
Member
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
RT for sure and pretty sure on frame generationRay-Tracing focused, frame generation enabled chips?
I will throw back years ago when Ybarra was still with Xbox he literally begged them to chase a DLSS type of future for Xbox, I couldn't count the amount of times he would say that was the future of gaming and this was long before these current consoles launched.
He should have been running Xbox but a total introvert and always said no to going on stage, hated being in front of people like that.
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ZehDon
Member
I think one of the reasons why a Pro console might be getting some push back is we're seeing few games actually using the next-gen features they already have, and a lot games are requiring many optimisation patches to get them running acceptably. PC has been swamped in poorly performing console ports that are simply too heavy for what the games are actually doing. It seems developers aren't held back by the hardware in the same way the Xbone/PS4 held them back, they're held back by a lack of optimisation, time, and QA. The constraints appear to be elsewhere. My two cents.DF’s turnaround on Pro consoles is so weird to see between last gen and this gen
and the only real difference is this gen it seems like Xbox isn’t going to have one
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He sounds a lot like Jim Ryan. Total introvert and hates being on stage.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Man I really hate do venture into conspiracy theory territory but these guys give me no choice. There's no need to dive into Alex's nonsense perspective, his irrational opposition to anything console (especially Sony) is well known and documented. It's Richard that pisses me off and convinced me he is going out of his way to stay in Microsoft good graces by downplaying any positive rumors relating to PlayStation. How does the leader of a tech channel go on and on praising the Xbox Series S as a "great value" for entry into next gen while being mellow/skeptical on the potential of a PS5 Pro which at the very least has solid rumors of enhanced RT? Could you imagine Rich praising the 4060ti 8gb simply because it is the cheapest NVidia card that offers tensor cores for RT and DLSS while questioning whether or not the 4090 is necessary? In fact, he/they've done the EXACT OPPOSITE of this as it relates to PC cards (as they should). So why is there a different mentality applied to console arena?
Sorry, but this stinks of biased, selective favoritism of one corporation over another. It's sad and pathetic to see this from DF.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nah, there has already been performance issues due to lack of optimization talent fallout since 2020.
This would be DF if MS said they had a Pro console as well,
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Yet we'll be seeing RT in all modes with Spider-Man 2.Nah, there has already been performance issues due to lack of optimization talent fallout since 2020.
This would be DF if MS said they had a Pro console as well,
Not to say that there couldn't be performance issues, but it seems we're now only at the 2nd proper wave of current-gen games.
I think there is still room left for optimisation, which I think is the real culprit instead of weak hardware.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Oh, I agree. I think the "work from home culture" fallout has impacted some studios more than others. I do think some like *cough* Jedi Survivor *cough* have some serious optimization and pipeline issues.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
DF’s turnaround on Pro consoles is so weird to see between last gen and this gen
and the only real difference is this gen it seems like Xbox isn’t going to have one
Microsoft not putting out a Pro model might accelerate their demise in the console gaming space. They're essentially resigning this generation and to what end? Next generation? It doesn't work like that. People who buy PS5 Pros instead of Xbox or PC are more likely to get PS6 than the next Xbox.
If I buy GTA6/GTA Online on PS5 Pro and it has further enhancements on PS6 am I going to get PS6 or the next Xbox? I think DF said that the ratio of base/pro last gen was 80/20... What they don't seem to understand is that 20 percent is A LOT, especially given that they came out YEARS after launch... These machines become the defacto standard, especially for hardcore gamers, that we've discussed on GAF really set the stage for the rest of the industry.
This is unilateral disarmament like we've never seen before.
Xbox will likely be sub 25 million at the end of the year or close to it, which will probably put them on track for ~30 million by the end of 2024, assuming continued decline. The PS6 is going to have 65-70 million units by this time. That's a more than 2:1 ratio BEFORE the Pro even comes out...
If Microsoft ends this generation sub 40 million... I can't imagine they put out a new console.
DF didn't want pro consoles but they definitely don't want just a PS5 Pro. That destroys the very concept of their channel, which is largely a comparison of performance between consoles. Who really cares if the PS5 base and XSX have the same performance if most of their viewers are playing on PS5 Pro? It's really bad for business and they know it.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
True, that makes sense.
This gen had a really slow start due to the pandemic, which caused a lot of issues.
In case of PS5, I think it'll still take some years before PS5 improvements plateau, which might be the reason why MS doesn't have plans for Pro (going by the leaks) and for Sony it wouldn't make much sense.
It'd be better to just work on next-gen and get cheaper, more powerful consoles out in a few years with a proper next gen.
Mibu no ookami
Banned
Consoles outpunch their weight class $ for $ and they know that. You've got to spend nearly double the price of a PS5 to get a similar performance on a PC.
If a PS5 Pro makes people think twice about getting a PC that's not beneficial for them who are largely PC/Xbox fanboys.
Huge market for gamers who are willing to spend a bit more to get better performance, graphics, and other features.
Honestly, I think they could cut back on the performance with just some quality-of-life features, but that's me.
Brigandier
Member
It's a very brave move from Xbox to not release a mid gen refresh this time around and do it their own way rather than copy/follow Sony's path.
Tech moves forward so fast now that in late 2028 the XSX will be ancient.
Tech moves forward so fast now that in late 2028 the XSX will be ancient.