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[DF] Is Xbox Project Helix a console or a PC?

Is Xbox Project Helix a console or a PC?


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Topher

Identifies as young
And is that even the most important question we should be asking?
The distinction between console and PC has becoming increasingly blurred, with Microsoft's upcoming Project Helix next-gen console - set to be detailed later today - straddling the divide almost perfectly. But if you had to choose, is Project Helix a PC? Or a console?

It is, of course, a question of semantics, so let's drill down into what makes something a PC versus a console. Historically, consoles were defined by their bespoke architectures and custom silicon, but the PS5 and Xbox Series consoles already use the same x86 backing as modern PCs. Similarly, while most gaming PCs separate the graphics card and processor as separate components, many laptops and handheld PCs already use a unified architecture that combines CPU and GPU into a single chipset with a shared memory pool.

There's still something of an efficiency advantage from having both hardware and software tailor-made to run game code, but I think it's fair to say that it's harder to point to a specific hardware feature set to distinguish a PC from a console these days.

A more fitting modern definition might be one of software freedom. While PCs can run a huge amount of gaming and non-gaming software from a variety of store fronts, consoles by nature are more curated experiences which can only run software that has been vetted (to some degree) by the platform holder. It's possible to install your own UWP apps on Xbox Series consoles, while PS3 and now PS5 can install Linux, but that doesn't really detract from the reality that Sony and Microsoft have a huge amount of say in the software that runs on their machines. The official, supported experience is installing apps from disc or a single official store, whereas the PC is designed from the outset to run arbitrary code without restriction (or at least, with mild impediments).

The role of the operating system is also central to the nature of PC. Though the Xbox Series consoles run a variant of the Windows kernel, it's still significantly more specialised than even the stripped-down Xbox mode designed for Windows 11 gaming handhelds. The original Xbox needed that efficiency to make the available hardware more viable for gaming than equivalent PCs of the era, and that has continued (to some extent) into the modern day - though it's clear that modern consoles, especially with their SSDs and faster CPUs, are much more capable of running as general purpose computers than their predecessors.

Looking at the Steam Deck and ROG Xbox Ally X can be instructive, as these devices are designed to hit both bases - they're general-purpose PCs that can run any software you like (I wrote up some long articles on a Steam Deck hooked up to a mechanical keyboard on an airplane once), while simultaneously giving plug-and-play access to a range of games from the Steam and Xbox stores respectively.

Ultimately, the difference for many users often comes down to the presentation of the user interface and the level of curation provided by the platform holder.

Beyond this, unrestricted access to hardware and file systems feels like the biggest single indicator of whether something is a PC or a console. Consoles typically lock files away in proprietary encrypted formats to prevent piracy and cheating. If the Project Helix allows full access to those files, whether directly on the device or via external storage, that sounds like a PC to me. Of course, whether we'll see that is another question!

It's worth remembering as well why Microsoft is treading this path in the first place. Embracing a more open, PC-like design with Project Helix is the company's way of finding an advantage against a presumptively traditional PS6 console. By moving away from the traditional closed-box console model - and potentially offering features like chipset licensing or a hybrid software library - the plan is to carve out a unique space in the market that is distinct from that of Nintendo or Sony. Ultimately, the question isn't whether Project Helix a PC or a console - it'll be whether or not that space-straddling design is successful in its aims.

We're set to learn more about Project Helix in a live stream later today, so stay tuned to Digital Foundry for analysis and reaction to whatever is shown.


 
My man Topher Topher competing with IbizaPocholo IbizaPocholo for creator of the year! Draugoth Draugoth is not even visible using binoculars anymore.

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Good read, and that's why it's a Hybrid Console.

Locked Bootloader protected with the Pluton security chip. No file system access, at least for the Xbox ecosystem.
 
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we don't have enough information yet to say that for sure at this point.

it's still up in the air how open the system is.
and an actual PC needs to be open or it's not really a PC.

if they limit what you can install, it's not a PC.
if they disallow sideloading, it's not a PC.

basically, if all you can do is install verified apps from the Microsoft Store, then it's not a PC
 
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It sounds like there are going to be a lot of hoops to jump through to make this perform like a PC. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
 
Topher Topher You need to stop with the Microsoft threads with zero information.

Did you misread the thread title? It is clearly asking a question, not providing answers.

Topher Topher why are you posting articles like you wrote them ? You're the only one doing that

I'm putting the article text in the OP so that you don't have to click the link to read the article. That isn't "posting articles" like I wrote them. What a strange thing to complain about.
 
Did you misread the thread title? It is clearly asking a question, not providing answers.



I'm putting the article text in the OP so that you don't have to click the link to read the article. That isn't "posting articles" like I wrote them. What a strange thing to complain about.
People usually put articles in quote sections to avoid confusion, you never do that
 
I like these guys but they create way too many threads. Bloatwaring the front page. Sorry guys lol.

IbizaPocholo IbizaPocholo showed up like Sukuna and Domain Expansion'd my ass.

My theory is that EviLore EviLore throws a dice every few months to decide which poster to pay to flood GAF with threads, create traffic and remain a billionaire. I'm not even sure what Topher needs the money for though, when I reach his age there won't be enough time to spend all of it :messenger_heart:.
 
My stance has always been that the difference is arbitrary and they are computers.

PC is like teraflops. It's for marketing. PC vs Mac. How to define a PC? Is a computer always defined by its OS?

Do me a favor. Remake this chart but do PC vs Computer, it might be more challenging than you think:
Square-Vs-Rectangle.jpg
 
Not really if the console portion is only for BC. Then it's much more a PC.

their presentation already basically said that there will be Helix games, they simply said that making a PC version after already making a Helix version will be easier than before due to a shared dev environment. (which is already the case fo Series X btw).

so it's not only for BC
 
If it has a desktop it's a PC.
Nah, if you boot your PC into a console-like UI and skip the desktop it's still a PC.

If it can run standard PC games it's a PC.

If it can run standard console games it's a console.

If it can run both it's a hybrid.
 
their presentation already basically said that there will be Helix games, they simply said that making a PC version after already making a Helix version will be easier than before due to a shared dev environment. (which is already the case fo Series X btw).

so it's not only for BC
If it is true than it is literally a hybrid PC/console.
 
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An answer that requires knowing many things about Helix that we still don't know...

For DF, basically, the question is whether or not Microsoft will allow free software on Helix. My bet is that this won't be the case at all.

Licensing issues and common sense rule out that possibility.

I still believe that everything about Helix (experience, logistics, customer service, and restrictions) will make it more like a console than a PC. The ability to run third-party PC games will be the only "distinction." And from there, it's up to each person to decide if that's enough to consider Helix a hybrid, which is where I believe there is more room for debate.
 
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I want to hear all of the details from Microsoft vefore I make any judgements, and I want to hear them answer all of thr tough questions. What this thing sounds like doesn't make good business sense to me. It seems like there have to be details coming that alter the narrative...
 
Sony fans who have been calling Switch a handheld for the past decade will have to call Helix a PC for the next decade, such a horrible life you people having
 
their presentation already basically said that there will be Helix games, they simply said that making a PC version after already making a Helix version will be easier than before due to a shared dev environment. (which is already the case fo Series X btw).

so it's not only for BC
Slight distinction, they aren't making a Helix version, they are Optimizing to Helix profile.

They start off with the Xbox PC build, designed to scale hardware, which can run on Helix as is. But Devs can optimize the games for Helix fixed spec profiles to get the store tag. Then they can optimize for Handhelds to get the Handheld Optimized store tag. Then they further optimize for Series consoles which would also run those Series profiles on xCloud until they upgrade to Magnus based hardware which will then run the Helix profiles.

So it's the same Universal SKU, just depends if optimization is mandatory or not, it will be required to get the store tag. For example, Series optimization is mandatory, Handheld Optimized is optional.
The game that interests me is MLB The Show and not just because of the whole Baseball thing

Its a console only game so what version of it will Helix run?

Will it be identical to the Series X/PS5 version?

It will run the same game created by the unified GDK, which is Xbox PC/Helix SKU. Yes it will be identical to the Series because Series are also running the same SKU. MS will simply block game from Smart Delivery distribution on Xbox PCs. So if they do Opt out Play Anywhere, devs who opt out, simply don't get their games running on Xbox PCs, for whatever licensing or marketing reasons.

But it would be the exact same Universal build.

 
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Slight distinction, they aren't making a Helix version, they are Optimizing to Helix profile.

They start off with the Xbox PC build, designed to scale hardware, which can run on Helix as is. But Devs can optimize the games for Helix fixed spec profiles to get the store tag.

that's what every dev using UE5 or other generalised engines already does.

the recent linux tests by digital foundry showed us as much. in fact the "PS5 Ports" at times ran slightly worse than just running the PC build through a translation layer on the same settings.

having a game based on a PC build, with dedicated settings profiles for console, is exactly what 99% of console games already are today.
 
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