• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[DF] Jedi Survivor update for PS5PRO

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
anybody has one issue whereby the lighting on the texture flickering under performance mode ?currently it happens to me on the desert area (jehda i thjink)?
 

Bojji

Member
anybody has one issue whereby the lighting on the texture flickering under performance mode ?currently it happens to me on the desert area (jehda i thjink)?

Game is full of bugs even after 10 patches, DF mentioned lighting issues in gfx mode as well.
 

MaKTaiL

Member
jedi8.gif


A sharpening filter does NOT magically create details.






jedi9.gif



No matter how you crank up your sharpness slider, you want get that rock details of PSSR :messenger_winking:







2-0.gif



And yes, the whole point of the AI upscale solution, is to preserve the image details even at motion, and it's not just about the sharpness.

In the process, it also removes artifacts like ghostings.










LOU-1.gif




LOU-2.gif




LOU-8.gif



It's funny to see how DLSS blurs at motion and shows ghosting artifacts like TAA does, yet people think it's amazing because it's temporarily more stable..

just like the TAA LOL
This was a great comparison. PSSR is much better in motion.
 

Tqaulity

Member
The more I reflect on this, the more disappointed I am at DF here. They are usually better than this. "If it comes out and it fails to wow us then it is a bit sad...". Really guys? Did DLSS wow anyone in it's first year? Did FSR wow anybody in year 1? Why is Sony and PSSR being held to such a higher standard? Again comparing it to a technology that basically invented the ML reconstruction technology with the power of the largest technology company in the world behind it for over 6 years in the market?! Yeah that makes a lot of sense. PSSR is an infant in the game and is the first of its kind on any console.

How about this...is PSSR today performing better than DLSS did in it's 1st year? Would anybody say that FSR1 in year 1 looks better than PSSR today? The fact that PSSR came out at the time that it did with the amount games supporting it at launch and it is even comparable to the much more mature solutions in DLSS in FSR is a freakin accomplishment for real. All your comparisons in this thread alone clearly show that PSSR actually is better in certain situations (and titles) than even DLSS. You think if Sony thought FSR 4 would be a better solution to what they could build on their own that they wouldn't have chosen it? You know the amount of investment (time and money) PSSR has been to even get to this point? FSR 4 is still a multi-platform solution that will be catering to PC first. PSSR (as the name implies) is a bespoke solution for PlayStation HW. We'll see much further evolution by the time we get to PS6 and beyond. In the meantime, I'll enjoy watching it's evolution on PS5 PRO in the years to come.

(And yes DLSS4 is great and believe me I've seen all that it is and will be. But different tech for a different market)
 
Last edited:

scydrex

Member
The more I reflect on this, the more disappointed I am at DF here. They are usually better than this. "If it comes out and it fails to wow us then it is a bit sad...". Really guys? Did DLSS wow anyone in it's first year? Did FSR wow anybody in year 1? Why is Sony and PSSR being held to such a higher standard? Again comparing it to a technology that basically invented the ML reconstruction technology with the power of the largest technology company in the world behind it for over 6 years in the market?! Yeah that makes a lot of sense. PSSR is an infant in the game and is the first of its kind on any console.

How about this...is PSSR today performing better than DLSS did in it's 1st year? Would anybody say that FSR1 in year 1 looks better than PSSR today? The fact that PSSR came out at the time that it did with the amount games supporting it at launch and it is even comparable to the much more mature solutions in DLSS in FSR is a freakin accomplishment for real. All your comparisons in this thread alone clearly show that PSSR actually is better in certain situations (and titles) than even DLSS. You think if Sony thought FSR 4 would be a better solution to what they could build on their own that they wouldn't have chosen it? You know the amount of investment (time and money) PSSR has been to even get to this point? FSR 4 is still a multi-platform solution that will be catering to PC first. PSSR (as the name implies) is a bespoke solution for PlayStation HW. We'll see much further evolution by the time we get to PS6 and beyond. In the meantime, I'll enjoy watching it's evolution on PS5 PRO in the years to come.

(And yes DLSS4 is great and believe me I've seen all that it is and will be. But different tech for a different market)
I totally agree with you.
 

SKYF@ll

Member
I don't think this game has ghosting problem. You can update DLSS to 3.8.x and use lumasharpen to make image look better, this is the best image quality you can get in this game.

high vs. epic textures


FSR 2 vs. DLSS 3.8.x

Thanks for your replies, Bojji and yamaci17.
I shot the same scene with PS5 Pro (Performance mode).
The PS5 Pro uses PSSR upscaling from 900p to 1800p, but I wonder what the settings are for Bojji's SS.
The PSSR looks fine when compared on my small PC monitor.
zp0oAjz.png
DFwSSpC.png
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
The more I reflect on this, the more disappointed I am at DF here. They are usually better than this. "If it comes out and it fails to wow us then it is a bit sad...". Really guys? Did DLSS wow anyone in it's first year? Did FSR wow anybody in year 1? Why is Sony and PSSR being held to such a higher standard? Again comparing it to a technology that basically invented the ML reconstruction technology with the power of the largest technology company in the world behind it for over 6 years in the market?! Yeah that makes a lot of sense. PSSR is an infant in the game and is the first of its kind on any console.

How about this...is PSSR today performing better than DLSS did in it's 1st year? Would anybody say that FSR1 in year 1 looks better than PSSR today? The fact that PSSR came out at the time that it did with the amount games supporting it at launch and it is even comparable to the much more mature solutions in DLSS in FSR is a freakin accomplishment for real. All your comparisons in this thread alone clearly show that PSSR actually is better in certain situations (and titles) than even DLSS. You think if Sony thought FSR 4 would be a better solution to what they could build on their own that they wouldn't have chosen it? You know the amount of investment (time and money) PSSR has been to even get to this point? FSR 4 is still a multi-platform solution that will be catering to PC first. PSSR (as the name implies) is a bespoke solution for PlayStation HW. We'll see much further evolution by the time we get to PS6 and beyond. In the meantime, I'll enjoy watching it's evolution on PS5 PRO in the years to come.

(And yes DLSS4 is great and believe me I've seen all that it is and will be. But different tech for a different market)

It's even worse than that - they are just flat out wrong.

I feel like they are intentionally going into each comparison assuming that DLSS is better everywhere, or that the edge cases where it is better are more important than the overall effect vs. PSSR.

It's the very definition of cherry picking to support a narrative. It's a hot take not substantiated by the overall footage. It's also sad that they can't show more footage of just the game running by itself, not zoomed in, so we can see how good it actually looks when you play.

Very shoddy stuff, and Oliver is really starting to sound like a loon with his pretty negative nancy takes....
 
Last edited:

Astray

Member
The more I reflect on this, the more disappointed I am at DF here. They are usually better than this. "If
They've been the #1 proponent of gaming box warring this gen (whether its Xbox vs PS or PC vs console).

I have no idea how most don't see that yet, they know where their bread is buttered and have only gotten worse as time goes.

I have found that with the exception of things like flickering or pop-in, I don't notice the majority of the stuff they're comparing with like 3x and 4x zooms.

With VRR I barely notice frame drops too unless they are massive.

The vast majority of the channel's content is pointless to me now so I have stopped watching.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
jedi8.gif


A sharpening filter does NOT magically create details.






jedi9.gif



No matter how you crank up your sharpness slider, you want get that rock details of PSSR :messenger_winking:







2-0.gif



And yes, the whole point of the AI upscale solution, is to preserve the image details even at motion, and it's not just about the sharpness.

In the process, it also removes artifacts like ghostings.










LOU-1.gif




LOU-2.gif




LOU-8.gif



It's funny to see how DLSS blurs at motion and shows ghosting artifacts like TAA does, yet people think it's amazing because it's temporarily more stable..

just like the TAA LOL
based on those pics, PSSR looks good. But in the Spidey pics, PS5 OG looks better than Pro.
 

Zathalus

Member
Comparing DLSS vs PSSR in images is pretty pointless. While PSSR is certainly resolving more detail it still has that weakness with temporal stability that presents as a film grain like effect, which obviously can’t be picked up in an image. Or even watching on your mobile.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Why are they testing dlss performance vs quality? I haven't watched the video properly.

Looking at the stills here and pssr looks easily comparable to dlss performance.

So I'm interested how it looks vs quality. I'
 
Yea I don't think I'll play the game but it will be interesting to see what mega geometry does to this game's performances. Supposed to help a lot for forests.
Remedy said their mega geometry patch will decrease CPU load, but IDK if we can expect decreased GPU load as well (higher performance in GPU limited scenarios).

This patch will also include with new ultra high settings for PT, so even if they improve performance, they will probably make the game even more demanding.
 

SKYF@ll

Member
Comparing DLSS vs PSSR in images is pretty pointless. While PSSR is certainly resolving more detail it still has that weakness with temporal stability that presents as a film grain like effect, which obviously can’t be picked up in an image. Or even watching on your mobile.
I think the majority of games do not have film grain.
Even in the latest Jedi Survivor, the grain has been reduced to the point where it does not interfere with gameplay.
It is meaningful to compare the images to see whether they are able to be upscaled from a lower resolution to 4K-like image quality.
 

Bojji

Member
Thanks for your replies, Bojji and yamaci17.
I shot the same scene with PS5 Pro (Performance mode).
The PS5 Pro uses PSSR upscaling from 900p to 1800p, but I wonder what the settings are for Bojji's SS.
The PSSR looks fine when compared on my small PC monitor.
zp0oAjz.png
DFwSSpC.png

I was using 4k with quality level FSR2 and DLSS (1440p internal). My only point was to see how much they differ in sharpness.

Comparing DLSS vs PSSR in images is pretty pointless. While PSSR is certainly resolving more detail it still has that weakness with temporal stability that presents as a film grain like effect, which obviously can’t be picked up in an image. Or even watching on your mobile.

Pretty much, base PSSR problems are still there. In this game DLSS has zero sharpening applied and thanks to that some people after seeing comparison say that sharper image = better image. When in reality PSSR is less stable in motion.

When DF don't support certain people narrative they are bad and fanboys of the other thing.
 

yamaci17

Member
I was using 4k with quality level FSR2 and DLSS (1440p internal). My only point was to see how much they differ in sharpness.



Pretty much, base PSSR problems are still there. In this game DLSS has zero sharpening applied and thanks to that some people after seeing comparison say that sharper image = better image. When in reality PSSR is less stable in motion.

When DF don't support certain people narrative they are bad and fanboys of the other thing.
now that I think about it I found another flaw in digital foundry's comparisons. the resolution is dynamic on the PS5 Pro. for example the game is much lighter in the intro map. while I'm sure it dips to 900p internally, I really don't think it stays there. meanwhile on PC they just use a fixed resolution because jedi survivor does not have dynamic resolution on PC

another interesting point, really

regardless the game is a mess on PC. the fact they can get 60 FPS with ray tracing enabled on the same zen 2 CPU shows that console's API is very efficient to a point it can power through respawn's incompetency

3700x on PC for example suffers greatly in this game. let alone getting a somewhat stable 60 FPS, you won't even get 1% lows that are above 40 FPS in Koboh with a 3700x. it is wild. interestingly PS5, meanwhile performing much better than 3700x in this title with ray tracing, also struggled. but somehow PS5 pro acts much better in CPU bound scenarios. there has to be some wild differences in how ray tracing is handled from a CPU perspective with PS5 pro



notice how the 3700x on PC can drop to 40s in this simple intro scene. Koboh is much worse...

and even on a ryzen 3600 (which digital foundry finds as a comparable CPU to both machines), the game was and still is literally unplayable with ray tracing


and 3700x wouldn't be much different (I just couldn't find a specific benchmark on koboh with 3700x)

it is really wild how poor this game performs on PC in terms of CPU performance. no wonder it will have broken sharpening, upscaling or whatever lol. the game can't even run properly with ray tracing unless you have a minimum of Zen 3, but even then, you really want a Zen 4 to get somewhat stable frametimes and even zen 3 struggles. meanwhile it manages to run somewhat okay on the ps5 pro with its exact same zen 2 CPU
 
Last edited:

Bojji

Member
now that I think about it I found another flaw in digital foundry's comparisons. the resolution is dynamic on the PS5 Pro. for example the game is much lighter in the intro map. while I'm sure it dips to 900p internally, I really don't think it stays there. meanwhile on PC they just use a fixed resolution because jedi survivor does not have dynamic resolution on PC

another interesting point, really

regardless the game is a mess on PC. the fact they can get 60 FPS with ray tracing enabled on the same zen 2 CPU shows that console's API is very efficient to a point it can power through respawn's incompetency

3700x on PC for example suffers greatly in this game. let alone getting a somewhat stable 60 FPS, you won't even get 1% lows that are above 40 FPS in Koboh with a 3700x. it is wild. interestingly PS5, meanwhile performing much better than 3700x in this title with ray tracing, also struggled. but somehow PS5 pro acts much better in CPU bound scenarios. there has to be some wild differences in how ray tracing is handled from a CPU perspective with PS5 pro



notice how the 3700x on PC can drop to 40s in this simple intro scene. Koboh is much worse...

and even on a ryzen 3600 (which digital foundry finds as a comparable CPU to both machines), the game was and still is literally unplayable with ray tracing


and 3700x wouldn't be much different (I just couldn't find a specific benchmark on koboh with 3700x)

it is really wild how poor this game performs on PC in terms of CPU performance. no wonder it will have broken sharpening, upscaling or whatever lol. the game can't even run properly with ray tracing unless you have a minimum of Zen 3, but even then, you really want a Zen 4 to get somewhat stable frametimes and even zen 3 struggles. meanwhile it manages to run somewhat okay on the ps5 pro with its exact same zen 2 CPU


Yeah, I wanted to make 1800p with 900p internal pictures for SKYF@ll SKYF@ll but then I realized it doesn't make sense because Pro version can have higher resolution than that 900p in different frames and places.

Without RT this game runs on console level CPU above 60fps now:

waFFxxb.jpeg


But with RT it's not possible:

bFSGrv5.jpeg


Still fucking shit code. They were able to make it more efficient with PS5 api so good for them.
 

Three

Member
now that I think about it I found another flaw in digital foundry's comparisons. the resolution is dynamic on the PS5 Pro. for example the game is much lighter in the intro map. while I'm sure it dips to 900p internally, I really don't think it stays there. meanwhile on PC they just use a fixed resolution because jedi survivor does not have dynamic resolution on PC

another interesting point, really
regardless the game is a mess on PC...
That is an interesting and valid point but some would rather not mention the state of this game on PC. Especially when they can go around pointing to minimums in that dynamic resolution on PS5 Pro as if it's running at that res most of the time. Looking at you Buggy Loop Buggy Loop and you spamming that "648p" for this game everywhere. The reality is that the game runs much higher most of the time and looks crisper.
 

winjer

Member
now that I think about it I found another flaw in digital foundry's comparisons. the resolution is dynamic on the PS5 Pro. for example the game is much lighter in the intro map. while I'm sure it dips to 900p internally, I really don't think it stays there. meanwhile on PC they just use a fixed resolution because jedi survivor does not have dynamic resolution on PC

another interesting point, really

regardless the game is a mess on PC. the fact they can get 60 FPS with ray tracing enabled on the same zen 2 CPU shows that console's API is very efficient to a point it can power through respawn's incompetency

3700x on PC for example suffers greatly in this game. let alone getting a somewhat stable 60 FPS, you won't even get 1% lows that are above 40 FPS in Koboh with a 3700x. it is wild. interestingly PS5, meanwhile performing much better than 3700x in this title with ray tracing, also struggled. but somehow PS5 pro acts much better in CPU bound scenarios. there has to be some wild differences in how ray tracing is handled from a CPU perspective with PS5 pro



notice how the 3700x on PC can drop to 40s in this simple intro scene. Koboh is much worse...

and even on a ryzen 3600 (which digital foundry finds as a comparable CPU to both machines), the game was and still is literally unplayable with ray tracing


and 3700x wouldn't be much different (I just couldn't find a specific benchmark on koboh with 3700x)

it is really wild how poor this game performs on PC in terms of CPU performance. no wonder it will have broken sharpening, upscaling or whatever lol. the game can't even run properly with ray tracing unless you have a minimum of Zen 3, but even then, you really want a Zen 4 to get somewhat stable frametimes and even zen 3 struggles. meanwhile it manages to run somewhat okay on the ps5 pro with its exact same zen 2 CPU


The problem is that those tests are really old.
With the new Windows 24H2 and patch 9 on PC that removes Denuvo, performance for these CPUs have increase significantly. Not perfect, but a lot better than the game at launch.
The PS5 is not affected by any of these big issues.
 

SKYF@ll

Member
Yeah, I wanted to make 1800p with 900p internal pictures for SKYF@ll SKYF@ll but then I realized it doesn't make sense because Pro version can have higher resolution than that 900p in different frames and places.
According to DF, the internal resolution of the PS5 Pro (Performance mode) will be an average of 900p, with a minimum of 720p and a maximum of 1080p.
In Quality mode, it's 1584-1620p.
DF said that in still images, DLSS is clear and PSSR is a bit soft, but I wonder how it will look to you GAF folks.

DLSS 3.8(1440p) vs. PSSR(900 - 1080p) vs. PSSR(1584 - 1620p)
fiSBi6f.jpg

GSl0mfJ.jpg


Imgur compresses images, so I also include a PNG file.
https://imgbox.com/VOSPBn1V.png
https://imgbox.com/yZGa1XF8.png
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Due to trying to match the scaling factor and output between the two tests. To get a grasp of how the upscaler is performing and not how the hardware is performing pushing a higher internal resolution.

Ahhh of course. So dlss performance is closer to the internal resolution of the ps5 pro version? That makes sense
 

Bojji

Member
According to DF, the internal resolution of the PS5 Pro (Performance mode) will be an average of 900p, with a minimum of 720p and a maximum of 1080p.
In Quality mode, it's 1584-1620p.
DF said that in still images, DLSS is clear and PSSR is a bit soft, but I wonder how it will look to you GAF folks.

DLSS 3.8(1440p) vs. PSSR(900 - 1080p) vs. PSSR(1584 - 1620p)
fiSBi6f.jpg

GSl0mfJ.jpg


Imgur compresses images, so I also include a PNG file.
https://imgbox.com/VOSPBn1V.png
https://imgbox.com/yZGa1XF8.png

Good comparison.

DLSS Performance (1080p) with lumasharpen set 0.85 and off:



7dHfHIg.jpeg
5VDNcur.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
According to DF, the internal resolution of the PS5 Pro (Performance mode) will be an average of 900p, with a minimum of 720p and a maximum of 1080p.
In Quality mode, it's 1584-1620p.
DF said that in still images, DLSS is clear and PSSR is a bit soft, but I wonder how it will look to you GAF folks.

DLSS 3.8(1440p) vs. PSSR(900 - 1080p) vs. PSSR(1584 - 1620p)
fiSBi6f.jpg

GSl0mfJ.jpg


Imgur compresses images, so I also include a PNG file.
https://imgbox.com/VOSPBn1V.png
https://imgbox.com/yZGa1XF8.png

It doesn’t matter if it’s a still frame because PSSR is never really temporarily stable and that’s where the pixel crawling happens.
 

Elios83

Member
Star Wars is now really good on the Pro.
I'm pretty satisfied with the new performance mode.
The only fact that DF has gone from trashing it to the clickbait comparisons to prove DLSS superiority at all costs is all the proof you need 🤭 "pie_tears_joy:
 

Buggy Loop

Gold Member

Yea that's been regurgitate how many times now..

Which is fixed by a simple .dll swap? Oh noes

PSSR is always like a plasma screen pixel orbiter, constantly. It's never stable. That creates artifacts in the overall picture that is sometimes even worse than FSR.



Ratchet and clank is pretty telling. The simple art style highlights how the technology handles edges.
 
Last edited:

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
Where are the images showing it is fixed by a .dll swap?

Man I wish I had time to reinstall, capture, make a high gif quality somehow without paying money and host it

But I seriously don’t give enough of a fuck

DLSS presets are numerous and available. Ask DF to use the preset they mention in the video, it’s their livelihood

You have a PC Topher no? Why don’t you go try it live?
 

Topher

Identifies as young
Man I wish I had time to reinstall, capture, make a high gif quality somehow without paying money and host it

But I seriously don’t give enough of a fuck

DLSS presets are numerous and available. Ask DF to use the preset they mention in the video, it’s their livelihood

You have a PC Topher no? Why don’t you go try it live?

Eh.....I figured this had been shown by a third party or something. Either way, it is up to you to prove your own claims, either first hand or from other sources. Talk is cheap my man.
 

YeulEmeralda

Linux User
They've been the #1 proponent of gaming box warring this gen (whether its Xbox vs PS or PC vs console).

I have no idea how most don't see that yet, they know where their bread is buttered and have only gotten worse as time goes.

I have found that with the exception of things like flickering or pop-in, I don't notice the majority of the stuff they're comparing with like 3x and 4x zooms.

With VRR I barely notice frame drops too unless they are massive.

The vast majority of the channel's content is pointless to me now so I have stopped watching.
Lol everyone can see it and they find it entertaining.
It's motherfucking ecelebs bro drama is what they do. This is what videogame culture is and always has been.
 

squidilix

Member
PSSR have 6 months and already beat DLSS 3.1 or 3.2... Amazing.

Really i'm curious to see 3D Cache + AI Core GPU AMD + PSSR 2.0

you can somewhat eliminate ghosting if the game ships with a preset that causes ghosting by default (just using the latest DLL would be enough)

(this video is outdated however, as preset E was unused at that time, nowadays preset E is like the preset C without ghosting).
as for the clear part, no idea. this video gives a good look on how different presets can actually affect ghosting but they look similar.

but I know for a fact that preset A can be blurrier than other presets


so what does jedi survivor use by default? I have no clue. i don't remember. someone has to check. I wouldn't actually be surprised if it ends up using the preset A lol. could be preset D too.


Look, Preset F at 1:30, they have more shimmering at grass.

So you prefer the grass flickering or the ghosting? The developers choose the one they consider the best counterpart, not the best overall
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom