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[Bojji]

I'm just asking your opinion to see if you find PSSR to be less stable than DLSS in this particular gif, because they appear about the same to me.

It could be just a matter of preference if it was strictly about the image clarity vs image stability,

but I see about the same image stability on both in moving scenes and PSSR's got the upper hand on image clarity.

As for the DLSS presets, upper mentioned 'D' is where you get the glorious DLSS image stability from, and you just want to cherry pick best traits from each of the presets at your convenience?

I really don't want to use this word, but I'm here for the tech analysis, not for some fanboy agenda

"Basically Preset E brings the temporal stability of Preset D and the anti-ghosting from Preset C."




DLSS 3.8.x only has presets E and F. Before devs were choosing one for less ghosting (C) and one for more image stability (D), with PSSR they only have less ghosting because image is unstable as fuck...

 

[MazingerDUDE]

"Basically Preset E brings the temporal stability of Preset D and the anti-ghosting from Preset C."

I don't think so

 

[MazingerDUDE]

DLSS 3.8.x only has presets E and F. with PSSR they only have less ghosting because image is unstable as fuck...

preset F removes the ghosting, but it's unstable as 'fuck' just like the PSSR

now do you see that the DLSS is not just some kind of black magic? lol

 

[Bojji]

I don't think so

preset F removes the ghosting, but it's unstable as 'fuck' just like the PSSR

now do you see that the DLSS is not just some kind of black magic? lol

???

You posted yourself some old info and preset E was mentioned as experimental on it, and in version 3.1.11 it probably was...

"New" preset E is with us since ~10 months ago:



And with 3.8.x ALL presets other than E and F were removed, E is used for everything and F for ultra performance DLSS.

That's why when I changed old .dll file in TLoU1 to version 3.8.x it also changed preset automatically from D to E because there is no "D" anymore:





This is the same scene you like to use to much ^

You always liked to focus on improved AA with PSSR in Ratchet in some shots but completely avoided any comparisons where PSSR was "unstable as fuck"

 

[MazingerDUDE]

So, tell me, which preset did you use for the one without ghosting?

Was it E or was it F, because it looks 'unstable as fuck'

BTW what's Ratchet's got anything to do with this thread?

We're discussing about the latest version of PSSR vs DLSS 3.1 used in JS right? Why'd you bring up the latest version of DLSS?

Also I was just pointing out the things that DF missed (or chose not to discuss lol) on their Ratchet video.

 

[viveks86]

My console peasant mind doesn’t understand what these preset letters are. I know there are dlss versions and you can swap dlls to override the default that came with the game. What are the presets? Are they different versions of the model within the version of dlss? And if so, should one be experimenting with different presets to see what works best for each game? Why did Nvidia come up with the esoteric naming instead of something like “sharpness priority” or “stability priority” presets. Just trying to learn how this came to be

 

[Bojji]

So, tell me, which preset did you use for the one without ghosting?

Was it E or was it F, because it looks 'unstable as fuck'

BTW what's Ratchet's got anything to do with this thread?

We're discussing about the latest version of PSSR vs DLSS 3.1 used in JS right? Why'd you bring up the latest version of DLSS?

Also I was just pointing out the things that DF missed (or chose not to discuss lol) on their Ratchet video.

I used 4x zoom in this image... You have full res version in some of my previous posts here.

Dlss with current preset e was available like 6 months before pro launched. You could use superior E in all games long before pssr appeared.

Why even compare NEW PSSR version now vs Dlss from 1.5 years ago?

Anyway, Jedi problem is not ghosting but lack of sharpening in Dlss that is present in passr and fsr...

 

[MazingerDUDE]

I used 4x zoom in this image... You have full res version in some of my previous posts here.

Dlss with current preset e was available like 6 months before pro launched. You could use superior E in all games long before pssr appeared.

Why even compare NEW PSSR version now vs Dlss from 1.5 years ago?

Anyway, Jedi problem is not ghosting but lack of sharpening in Dlss that is present in passr and fsr...

Because that's the video that DF has posted and that's what this thread is about? duh?

And how can you call that 'superior' when it's 'unstable as fuck'?

 

[Thief1987]

And how can you call that 'superior' when it's 'unstable as fuck'?

You just don't have these special fanboy glasses, your lose

 

[Bojji]

Because that's the video that DF has posted and that's what this thread is about? duh?

And how can you call that 'superior' when it's 'unstable as fuck'?

Unstable as fuck in what way? It's funny that you are blind to obvious PSSR problems yet you see them here lol.

We have DF saying that Dlss is superior even in that old version vs. random Sony fangirls saying otherwise? Who has more authority on this matter?

 

[MazingerDUDE]

So just tell me, which one is more temporally stable?

You said 'you can see a lot of "film grain" like instability on PSSR side' for this one right?

I'm really interested to see your take on your own preset D vs E


BTW, just in case you didn't know, I'm one of the earliest contributors to DF when it was still at its infancy.

Page 3 | Face-Off: Ninja Gaiden 2 vs. Sigma 2

How do you turn a game design and engine specifically designed for the architectural strengths of one console, and make…

www.eurogamer.net

That frame rate reader that DF uses even to this day is of my design.

So that makes you the random fanboy with special fanboy glasses which makes you see things that no one else here sees

 

[daninthemix]

Good to see this notorious title finally getting some IQ polish. I expect the DLSS transformer model will do similar.

 

[yamaci17]

???

You posted yourself some old info and preset E was mentioned as experimental on it, and in version 3.1.11 it probably was...

"New" preset E is with us since ~10 months ago:



And with 3.8.x ALL presets other than E and F were removed, E is used for everything and F for ultra performance DLSS.

That's why when I changed old .dll file in TLoU1 to version 3.8.x it also changed preset automatically from D to E because there is no "D" anymore:





This is the same scene you like to use to much ^

this is how you know there's no point of arguing mate. and this is also how you know they literally do not actually read whatever you say here. I've literally told this, yet they somehow tried using that video and the preset E in it as a gotcha moment

[DF] Jedi Survivor update for PS5PRO

I'll ask again Who puts the DLSS slider to performance? On top of not changing the DLSS .dll file to more recent versions?

www.neogaf.com

"this video is outdated however, as preset E was unused at that time, nowadays preset E is like the preset C without ghosting"

preset E was introduced with DLSS 3.7.0 and before that it probably defaulted to some other preset whenever you pick it. but that doesn't matter because they won't read none of this as well

My console peasant mind doesn’t understand what these preset letters are. I know there are dlss versions and you can swap dlls to override the default that came with the game. What are the presets? Are they different versions of the model within the version of dlss? And if so, should one be experimenting with different presets to see what works best for each game? Why did Nvidia come up with the esoteric naming instead of something like “sharpness priority” or “stability priority” presets. Just trying to learn how this came to be

there's no need for experimenting anymore as there's only preset E and preset F with the newest DLSS version. who knows maybe transformers will only have 1 model. preset E is just great and there really is no need to try other stuff.

preset F is just there for DLAA and DLSS ultra performance. it tends to make things blurrier by design. with DLAA, you give it more pixels so the blurring is less apparent and instead you get superior anti aliasing. with dlss ultra performance, blurring is required to make up for the lack of pixels. you get the idea.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

FYI, if anyone is playing this now, I encountered a very nasty glitch that for a while seemed like it would require me to restart the game. I found a fix that was seemingly completely unrelated, but it worked and if it affects you, here is a potential solution:

The glitch:
Cal couldn't attack or damage enemies and enemies couldn't attack Cal. Doors wouldn't open. It was like Cal disappeared. It happened in the Forest Array section right before the section where Cal was supposed to direct the Bilemaw to attach Stormtroopers. It happened after I used BD-1 to tag a force echo on a ledge. That is apparently what caused it. After spending an hour or so moving around, I looked online and what finally fixed it was going into the map and adding markers and the using the REMOVE ALL MARKERS option. That is what fixed it. And the game is playing as normal.


While I still maintain that the game overall looks and runs VERY well on PS5 Pro considering that it is being upscaled from 900p, there are definitely some textures and surfaces with noticeable visual artifacts.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

preset F removes the ghosting, but it's unstable as 'fuck' just like the PSSR

now do you see that the DLSS is not just some kind of black magic? lol

So how the hell do I switch Presets? How do I know what the game is using?

 

[yamaci17]

So how the hell do I switch Presets? How do I know what the game is using?

just use the latest DLL, then you won't have to worry about anything

 

[jm89]

So just tell me, which one is more temporally stable?

You said 'you can see a lot of "film grain" like instability on PSSR side' for this one right?

I'm really interested to see your take on your own preset D vs E


BTW, just in case you didn't know, I'm one of the earliest contributors to DF when it was still at its infancy.

Page 3 | Face-Off: Ninja Gaiden 2 vs. Sigma 2

How do you turn a game design and engine specifically designed for the architectural strengths of one console, and make…

www.eurogamer.net

That frame rate reader that DF uses even to this day is of my design.

So that makes you the random fanboy with special fanboy glasses which makes you see things that no one else here sees

 

[Bojji]

So just tell me, which one is more temporally stable?

You said 'you can see a lot of "film grain" like instability on PSSR side' for this one right?

I'm really interested to see your take on your own preset D vs E


BTW, just in case you didn't know, I'm one of the earliest contributors to DF when it was still at its infancy.

Page 3 | Face-Off: Ninja Gaiden 2 vs. Sigma 2

How do you turn a game design and engine specifically designed for the architectural strengths of one console, and make…

www.eurogamer.net

That frame rate reader that DF uses even to this day is of my design.

So that makes you the random fanboy with special fanboy glasses which makes you see things that no one else here sees

I always thought your nick was familiar, now I know why! Great work BTW.

I completely don't understand why you are using my video that was not meant to be used that way. This is original file

2x and 4x versions are literally desktop recording of zoomed in media player using GeForce app, so you have added artifacts with every step and in the end youtube compression. For quality comparisons you would need direct feed so WTF? I only wanted to know if this ghosting that you like to post so often with that gif is still there in newer presets.

Your opinion about this stuff now it completely different than what DF have:

They also said that what makes it worse for PSSR is that they used old version of DLSS that comes with the game...

So what, are they Nvidia or MS sponsored for having this opinion?

What you did since that Ratchet comparison is posting stuff that works well with PSSR while completely ignoring weak points. You posted gifs and images where PSSR had better anti aliasing while completely ignoring this (timestamped):



Can i borrow your fanboy glasses?

this is how you know there's no point of arguing mate. and this is also how you know they literally do not actually read whatever you say here. I've literally told this, yet they somehow tried using that video and the preset E in it as a gotcha moment

[DF] Jedi Survivor update for PS5PRO

I'll ask again Who puts the DLSS slider to performance? On top of not changing the DLSS .dll file to more recent versions?

www.neogaf.com

"this video is outdated however, as preset E was unused at that time, nowadays preset E is like the preset C without ghosting"

preset E was introduced with DLSS 3.7.0 and before that it probably defaulted to some other preset whenever you pick it. but that doesn't matter because they won't read none of this as well



there's no need for experimenting anymore as there's only preset E and preset F with the newest DLSS version. who knows maybe transformers will only have 1 model. preset E is just great and there really is no need to try other stuff.

preset F is just there for DLAA and DLSS ultra performance. it tends to make things blurrier by design. with DLAA, you give it more pixels so the blurring is less apparent and instead you get superior anti aliasing. with dlss ultra performance, blurring is required to make up for the lack of pixels. you get the idea.

Exactly, this is what I gathered from discussion like this, all work done to correct bullshit and misinformation is ignored, lol. I wonder how many times this last of us gif will be posted in the future...

What is funny is that PSSR still looses to old versions of DLSS while new version was available MONTHS before it launched and unlike on consoles you can literally upgrade every DLSS 2.x and up game using simple ctrl+c and ctrl+v or DLSS swapper.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

I always thought your nick was familiar, now I know why! Great work BTW.

I completely don't understand why you are using my video that was not meant to be used that way. This is original file

2x and 4x versions are literally desktop recording of zoomed in media player using GeForce app, so you have added artifacts with every step and in the end youtube compression. For quality comparisons you would need direct feed so WTF? I only wanted to know if this ghosting that you like to post so often with that gif is still there in newer presets.

Your opinion about this stuff now it completely different than what DF have:

They also said that what makes it worse for PSSR is that they used old version of DLSS that comes with the game...

So what, are they Nvidia or MS sponsored for having this opinion?

What you did since that Ratchet comparison is posting stuff that works well with PSSR while completely ignoring weak points. You posted gifs and images where PSSR had better anti aliasing while completely ignoring this (timestamped):



Can i borrow your fanboy glasses?



Exactly, this is what I gathered from discussion like this, all work done to correct bullshit and misinformation is ignored, lol. I wonder how many times this last of us gif will be posted in the future...

What is funny is that PSSR still looses to old versions of DLSS while new version was available MONTHS before it launched and unlike on consoles you can literally upgrade every DLSS 2.x and up game using simple ctrl+c and ctrl+v or DLSS swapper.

I have provided multiple comparison shots and tech analysis to back up my argument, and you're just relying on DF's authority.

Now that you know I'm a former associate of DF, I believe I have enough 'authority' to make an argument here right?

So, the DF guy said PSSR is noisier here

Do you really think it looks noisier?

I know you can't answer even to something as simple as this

As you refused to answer even to your own video.

Because you're a fanboy and I'm wasting my fucking time.

 

[Bojji]

I have provided multiple comparison shots and tech analysis to back up my argument, and you're just relying on DF's authority.

Now that you know I'm a former associate of DF, I believe I have enough 'authority' to make an argument here right?

So, the DF guy said PSSR is noisier here

Do you really think it looks noisier?

I know you can't answer even to something as simple as this

As you refused to answer even to your own video.

Because you're a fanboy and I'm wasting my fucking time.

You can have whatever opinion you want to have, looks like we are all seeing different things in the same footage.

I told you already, my video was recorded using GeForce app - this alone makes is UNUSABLE to any quality comparisons - working for DF you should know that. You have:

1. Loss in quality using the app (default settings minus av1 selected)
2. Loss in quality because I recorded zoomed in video to make "x2" video
3. Loss in quality because I recorded zoomed in "x2" video to make "x4" video
4. Loss in quality uploading it to YT

And you are using THAT video as proof of something?

So I'm a fanboy because I agree here with DF? That makes them fanboys too?

What about this part of the video?

Same stability as DLSS?

 

[MazingerDUDE]

You can have whatever opinion you want to have, looks like we are all seeing different things in the same footage.

I told you already, my video was recorded using GeForce app - this alone makes is UNUSABLE to any quality comparisons - working for DF you should know that. You have:

1. Loss in quality using the app (default settings minus av1 selected)
2. Loss in quality because I recorded zoomed in video to make "x2" video
3. Loss in quality because I recorded zoomed in "x2" video to make "x4" video
4. Loss in quality uploading it to YT

And you are using THAT video as proof of something?

So I'm a fanboy because I agree here with DF? That makes them fanboys too?

What about this part of the video?

Same stability as DLSS?

You're a fanboy because you're seeing things no one else can see

like 'film grain like instability' on PSSR here

or 'added sharpen filter' on PSSR here

yet you failed to see image instability in this particular gif made out of your own video


And no, zooming in won't make you lose quality, it's exactly the opposite

 

[Bojji]

You're a fanboy because you're seeing things no one else can see

like 'film grain like instability' on PSSR here

or 'added sharpen filter' on PSSR here

yet you failed to see image instability in this particular gif made out of your own video


And no, zooming in won't make you lose quality, it's exactly the opposite

You can see "film grain" on your own gif:

Only I see it? Sure...

Another examples:

More:

Also this and many more I won't bother to find right now:

 

[Gaiff]

You're a fanboy because you're seeing things no one else can see

like 'film grain like instability' on PSSR here

I definitely see the film grain instability on both images, but it's more pronounced in PSSR while DLSS is blurrier.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

You can see "film grain" on your own gif:

Only I see it? Sure...

Another examples:

More:

Also this and many more I won't bother to find right now:

and this is precisely what I said about that particular gif

I only said that the image stability is on par with DLSS 'in moving scenes'

And what are these older games got anything to do with the latest version of PSSR?

 

[Bojji]

and this is precisely what I said about that particular gif

I only said that the image stability is on par with DLSS 'in moving scenes'

And what are these older games got anything to do with the latest version of PSSR?

Latest version of PSSR clearly has the same noise as seen in other games. They fixed most of the foliage problems in JS so that's some progress.

 

[SKYF@ll]

Upscaling from 900-1080p to 4K is a difficult task, but with the collaboration between Sony and AMD, we can expect further quality improvements in a year.
Compared to the first terrible PSSR, the latest PSSR has made great progress in just two months.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Latest version of PSSR clearly has the same noise as seen in other games. They fixed most of the foliage problems in JS so that's some progress.

And that smearing noise you see in PSSR is not just the PSSR thing,

as you can see exactly the same kind of noise presents in DLSS preset F

DLSS is just effectively hiding it by disabling the 'AI enhancement' altogether in static scenes.







And it's evident in this video, see how ghosting occurs at the moment camera stops moving?

DLSS is basically turning into TAA in static scenes to gain image stability at cost of artifacts like ghosting.



So my conclusion is that the latest version of PSSR produces better results than DLSS 3.1,

because it provides better image clarity with similar level of image stability in moving scenes.

 

[intheinbetween]

Nice upgrade, though not enough for a 699$ + taxes console.

 

[Bojji]

And that smearing noise you see in PSSR is not just the PSSR thing,

as you can see exactly the same kind of noise presents in DLSS preset F

DLSS is just effectively hiding it by disabling the 'AI enhancement' altogether in static scenes.







And it's evident in this video, see how ghosting occurs at the moment camera stops moving?

DLSS is basically turning into TAA in static scenes to gain image stability at cost of artifacts like ghosting.



So my conclusion is that the latest version of PSSR produces better results than DLSS 3.1,

because it provides better image clarity with similar level of image stability in moving scenes.

Preset C didn't have this ghosting and current preset E (that replaced A, B, C, D) don't have it as well. So if what you are saying is true it's only applicable to preset D in the past.

Shimmering shown in old F preset in quality mode is also irrelevant as this preset is for DLAA:

Hello guys, with the most recent DLSS update (3.8.10) NVIDIA removed older presets and now with the latest DLSS version only preset E is used for Quality/Balanced/Performance and Preset F is forced for DLAA.

IN THE PAST Nvidia presets were explained like this:

I think you posted this as well.

 

[Spukc]

I hope nvidea will up it’s game to beat the new PSSR damn man

 

[Gaiff]

I hope nvidea will up it’s game to beat the new PSSR damn man

Likewise. Hopefully, the 5090 will be faster than the Pro's GPU.

 

[Spukc]

Likewise. Hopefully, the 5090 will be faster than the Pro's GPU.

On paper pretty sure it will be.
But playing actual games microstutter free?
Pc gaming is a fucking minefield with new titles at launch.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Preset C didn't have this ghosting and current preset E (that replaced A, B, C, D) don't have it as well. So if what you are saying is true it's only applicable to preset D in the past.

Shimmering shown in old F preset in quality mode is also irrelevant as this preset is for DLAA:



IN THE PAST Nvidia presets were explained like this:

I think you posted this as well.

Preset C's got the same smearing noise, it's just a byproduct of AI enhanced image

Hence you get very similar traits on sub pixel noise between two

and the noise is gone with the AI enhancement disabled, now it's at full force with the traditional TAA mode on DLSS side

There's no magic here, just the smoke and mirrors