Onironauta
Member
DLSS has become crazy good
DF UPDATE BACKTRACK Street Fighter 6 on Switch 2 appears to be using DLSS to upscale from 540p to 1080p with "remarkably" clean image quality
- Thread starter GigaBowser
- Start date
- Analysis Hardware Hype
Klosshufvud
Member
Nvidia saving the awful aliasing and dithering issues of RE Engine heh.DLSS is a gamechanger for Switch 2
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Robb
Gold Member
What's the deal with BotW/TotK here?whhhhhhaaaaatttt?
Why does BotW have an additional 9.7GB over the base game, while TotK only has 3.6GB, despite the base game being larger?
Insane Metal
Member
Honestly, one can hate on Nintendo as much as they want, but having DLSS in a handheld is awesome.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
are the top images of the two switch 2?
yep. Switch 2 image is incredibly sharper
winjer
Member
DLSS is a temporal upscaler. This means it needs a few frames to gather samples from neighboring pixels.
When there is a complete change in the image, for example when the camera cuts to another view, the first frame doesn't have time to sample pixels, so it shows that frame as the base resolution.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Everything better. Textures. Models. Jeeesus. Beast mode switch 2. The ps4 one looks like the mobile version.
Hyet
Member
Fascinating, thanks.
So I assume DF was able to capture direct feed from this or are they eyeballing it?
meech
Member
Thats a wrong conclusion. The Switch 2 can have easily the power to do it natively, but the developers may simply choose to use the "power budget" elsewhere, like better textures/lightning instead.
PeteBull
Member
Even if we assume switch2 games are optimised af, coded to the metal switch2 gpu is still only 3,2tf of ampere architecture (8nm node from 2020)
Even that extremly cut down and downclocked to 35W tdp powerdraw ampere gpu is 4,6tflops so switch2 gpu will perform roughly as good as that if it punches 50% above its weightclass, but with one caviot, switch2 has 12gb of vram, which will help tremendously with texture quality/streaming data and overall lack/reducing of all kinds of hitching
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Max-Q Refresh 4 GB Specs
NVIDIA GA107, 1125 MHz, 2048 Cores, 64 TMUs, 32 ROPs, 4096 MB GDDR6, 1375 MHz, 128 bit
Tons of vids on the net of laptop 3050 gpu's but those are either higher vram/more tflops version or/and much higher tdp(huge difference between 35-40tdp and even 95tdp in performance, easily 30% even).
This one is of 4gb vram 40W tdp so very accurate to what switch2 gonna produce, once again with way more vram so when possible texture/asset quality will be much higher, less pop in/no streaming hitches, sudden drops of fps:
It can still run cp2077, fh4, spiderman remastered and new ratchet at 30fps and games dont look last gen on it(if we take into account increased vram they will look even better).
winjer
Member
They need a good sample, be it a direct sample or a good picture of the screen.
But then they need to count pixels in an area and extrapolate that.
There might already be some software that can do that automatically.
Another way, it to pixel count, when there is something moving very fast on the screen.
Behind the moving object, the temporal upscaler won't have time to gather samples and create new pixels.
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Ritsumei2020
Banned
Sony will make a portable PS5 that will run PS5 games in 4K/240fps at $199.
Then the Nintendo fanboys will eat crow!
Hyet
Member
I suspect this too. Since natively rendering is more expensive, the console has little power to draw from, the frame rate target has to be constantly high and people already pointed they had issues with natively rendered output in other platforms like Series S DLSS seems to solve or mitigate all of this in some way or another as fas as I know.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
It is clear from those images that the Switch 2 version pisses all over the PS4 version when comparing texture and asset quality.
StueyDuck
Member
I mean... obviously that is crazy.
But can you imagine if Sony or MS did manage to drop a beast like that at around $300-350.
There would be chaos
Hyet
Member
It will blow your mind, burn your hands and it will be the best 12 seconds of your life and you'll get to relive them again when it's fully charged. Greatness awaits!
So much outraging when DF said it's like a ps4 hardware and now they are happy if they have to use DLSS at 540p to have a similar IQ with the same settings. Seems a cheap port to me and nothing to celebrate.540p
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Mownoc
Member
Huh? Yes they're spending the power budget elsewhere, which is why the Switch 2 isn't powerful enough to run the game with the graphics settings we have seen in the footage at a native 1080p. OFC they could possibly do it if they downgraded graphics in other places lol.
I didn't say it was impossible to get SF6 running 1080p native on Switch 2. It's that at the graphics settings we have already seen the Switch 2 needs DLSS to achieve it when previously we thought the Switch 2 wasn't using DLSS and was powerful enough to do it natively with those settings.
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Look at Ryu's skin textures and muscles.
meech
Member
I am assuming competent devs of course. Because another explanation for this, if Df is right, can be that the game is bugged and still runs in mobile mode even if docked. The whole patent of Nintendo mentions upscaling from 540p is done to save battery, so i would make no sense to use this if docked.
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
It's not similar to ps4 it's much better. It has more graphical features of the ps5 / Xbox series versions. Higher res textures, more dynamic muscle, better/more hair rendering just for some stand outs.
It's not a one to one comparison.
meech
Member
Sigh. No. A console has a power budget. The devs could have simply decided that the upscaled picture looks good enough for their goals and they put some eye candy elsewhere. Or the simplest explanation is a bug that the game is still using mobile mode while docked.
VolticArchangel
Member
Is this in handheld or docked mode?
The latency being lesser than PS5 is wild. Damn.
The latency being lesser than PS5 is wild. Damn.
Mownoc
Member
You're saying the exact thing I am. They used the power budget elsewhere for eye candy so the switch 2 cant run it at native 1080p with that eye candy they need to use dlss. Lmao.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Im starting to think some users need a prescription.
Hyet
Member
Well, that would still make sense since you would optimize for the most constrained mode first I assume. On the other hand, Isn't DLSS quite power hungry as a feature to enable it it a significant way on portable mode? I wouldn't expect the batettery to last much if thye used it that way.
Ritsumei2020
Banned
PeteBull
Member
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meech
Member
Its on the first page of this thread, a interpretation of Gameranx.
Nintendo recently filed a patent for some sort of proprietary upscaling tech based on DLSS right? I get what DF does in regards to analysis, but I don't think we can assume Switch 2 is doing DLSS in exactly similar ways with the same "drawbacks" or costs considering this is the first time DLSS is being used in a closed ecosystem with proprietary tech.
Great Auk
Banned
Lol luckily we only play the games looking at the front.
Judge Magister
Member
Now you're playing with power. SUPER POWER
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tkscz
Member
My guess is it can but why should it? If you can make it look like 1080p while running at a resolution that makes the game run better without having to put in a lot of work, why not use it?
Though I wouldn't be surprised if all launch window games were told to use the tech just to show it off to investors and future development partners.
blacktout
Member
We also had a patent from Nintendo that was released earlier this year which described using DLSS to reduce file sizes.
If Google isn't lying to me, it looks like the Switch 2 version of SF6 is around 50 GB and includes the first two years of DLC, whereas the original version is around 80 GB before DLC. So that alone could be a reason to upscale.
Mister Wolf
Member
Use to power saved from upscaling the resolution to utilize better in game assets.
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Horseganador
Member
540p upscaling with DLSS in the dock is disappointing, Switch 2 in the dock should easily run this game to 1080p and upscale from there with DLSS, it would look even better.
Boy bawang
Member
I don't know the reason why they used upscaling considering that the machine is decisively more powerful than a PS4 and stands at about 2/3 of a series S.
But what matters is the end result, and SF6 on Switch 2 looks great.
But what matters is the end result, and SF6 on Switch 2 looks great.
Topher
Identifies as young
On PC, you wouldn't have to analyze the image to determine if DLSS was being used. You would just check the settings.
Steve Holt
Member
It's a bit of a weird flex to compare with a 12 year old console.
Nintendo has never been about graphics but happy that it has DLSS. Should mean we get less gimped versions of third party games
Nintendo has never been about graphics but happy that it has DLSS. Should mean we get less gimped versions of third party games
Buggy Loop
Member
Or plain saving space on cartridges.
This could just be the default upscaling mode the dev kit offers and has the lowest latency as it was originally made for handheld mode because traditional AI upscaling is too energy hungry. Nintendo's patent expressively focused on 540p→1080p as it seems they found a way to have the entire image fit to a near match on the tensor cores for a low latency upscale. Probably other DLSS options available, but if its near a free lunch from 540p→1080p, same resolution detailed in the patent, then I can see this mode being used 100% by default for handheld and for docked well that is to be seen, on a dev to dev basis.
DF was blindsided for 2 weeks with this new model. 2 weeks. While you can go and take any DLSS 3 or 4 footage online and go frame by frame and you'll detect the telltale signs of the upscaling technique. So what's going on here? There's something in the patents that escapes everyone. Patent has been put offline too, likely in revision. I feel like for a very fixed hardware solution like a console and resolution target for say handheld screen which is fixed, Nvidia/Nintendo made a super efficient DLSS.
Hmm. Interesting news but I'm a little confused.
I've read that DLSS isn't "free," meaning that it takes significant resources. So is this working only when docked?
If so, does that mean in handheld mode it only looks 540p on its 1080p screen? Because that would be a bummer.
But if it uses DLSS in handheld too and might actually help regarding battery life, this would be great news.
I've read that DLSS isn't "free," meaning that it takes significant resources. So is this working only when docked?
If so, does that mean in handheld mode it only looks 540p on its 1080p screen? Because that would be a bummer.
But if it uses DLSS in handheld too and might actually help regarding battery life, this would be great news.
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Klosshufvud
Member
What you've bolded is literally just describing shipping a game with lower resolution textures and relying on upscaling algorithms to upscale it to HD. It's not a Nintendo invention that low resolution means less storage. I don't think you understand exactly what you're quoting and what it's saying. The whole "patent" does nothing but describe what DLSS does. It's not a unique Nintendo™ feature. It probably standardizes the whole process to always rely on x4 upscaling for clarification. The reason DF could not see it was because the footage was extremely shoddy and/or because we still don't know the extent of DLSS possible in handheld mode when the SoC is choked to hell by its laughable 7W power limit.
Hold your horses. The last word is far from spoken here.