DF UPDATE BACKTRACK Street Fighter 6 on Switch 2 appears to be using DLSS to upscale from 540p to 1080p with "remarkably" clean image quality

DLSS is a gamechanger for Switch 2

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Nvidia saving the awful aliasing and dithering issues of RE Engine heh.
 
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We can confirm that in +2033 Nintendo will be going to upscaled 1080p!

People are freaking out because it runs PS4 (2013) games, but they don't think that the console is released now and that's what it's going to be for the next 8 years...
 
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How can DF possibly know the internal render resolution, though?

DLSS is a temporal upscaler. This means it needs a few frames to gather samples from neighboring pixels.
When there is a complete change in the image, for example when the camera cuts to another view, the first frame doesn't have time to sample pixels, so it shows that frame as the base resolution.
 
DLSS is a temporal upscaler. This means it needs a few frames to gather samples from neighboring pixels.
When there is a complete change in the image, for example when the camera cuts to another view, the first frame doesn't have time to sample pixels, so it shows that frame as the base resolution.
Fascinating, thanks.

So I assume DF was able to capture direct feed from this or are they eyeballing it?
 
But we already knew it looked good, the visuals haven't changed. The only difference is we now know it's using DLSS to do it instead of what we previously thought, that the switch 2 has the power to do it natively. I
Thats a wrong conclusion. The Switch 2 can have easily the power to do it natively, but the developers may simply choose to use the "power budget" elsewhere, like better textures/lightning instead.
 
What is Switch 2's hardware comparable to in the GPU market? Nvidia is all over the gaming laptop space. Are any of those comparable even though the CPU is not ARM based?
Even if we assume switch2 games are optimised af, coded to the metal switch2 gpu is still only 3,2tf of ampere architecture (8nm node from 2020)
Even that extremly cut down and downclocked to 35W tdp powerdraw ampere gpu is 4,6tflops so switch2 gpu will perform roughly as good as that if it punches 50% above its weightclass, but with one caviot, switch2 has 12gb of vram, which will help tremendously with texture quality/streaming data and overall lack/reducing of all kinds of hitching
Die Size200 mm² of that gpu alone while switch2 die is around that sice when we talking whole SoC.

Tons of vids on the net of laptop 3050 gpu's but those are either higher vram/more tflops version or/and much higher tdp(huge difference between 35-40tdp and even 95tdp in performance, easily 30% even).
This one is of 4gb vram 40W tdp so very accurate to what switch2 gonna produce, once again with way more vram so when possible texture/asset quality will be much higher, less pop in/no streaming hitches, sudden drops of fps:

It can still run cp2077, fh4, spiderman remastered and new ratchet at 30fps and games dont look last gen on it(if we take into account increased vram they will look even better).
 
Fascinating, thanks.

So I assume DF was able to capture direct feed from this or are they eyeballing it?

They need a good sample, be it a direct sample or a good picture of the screen.
But then they need to count pixels in an area and extrapolate that.
There might already be some software that can do that automatically.

Another way, it to pixel count, when there is something moving very fast on the screen.
Behind the moving object, the temporal upscaler won't have time to gather samples and create new pixels.
 
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We can confirm that in +2033 Nintendo will be going to upscaled 1080p!

People are freaking out because it runs PS4 (2013) games, but they don't think that the console is released now and that's what it's going to be for the next 8 years...

Sony will make a portable PS5 that will run PS5 games in 4K/240fps at $199.

Then the Nintendo fanboys will eat crow!
 
Thats a wrong conclusion. The Switch 2 can have easily the power to do it natively, but the developers may simply choose to use the "power budget" elsewhere, like better textures/lightning instead.
I suspect this too. Since natively rendering is more expensive, the console has little power to draw from, the frame rate target has to be constantly high and people already pointed they had issues with natively rendered output in other platforms like Series S DLSS seems to solve or mitigate all of this in some way or another as fas as I know.
 
Thats a wrong conclusion. The Switch 2 can have easily the power to do it natively, but the developers may simply choose to use the "power budget" elsewhere, like better textures/lightning instead.

It is clear from those images that the Switch 2 version pisses all over the PS4 version when comparing texture and asset quality.
 
Sony will make a portable PS5 that will run PS5 games in 4K/240fps at $199.

Then the Nintendo fanboys will eat crow!
I mean... obviously that is crazy.

But can you imagine if Sony or MS did manage to drop a beast like that at around $300-350.

There would be chaos
 
So much outraging when DF said it's like a ps4 hardware and now they are happy if they have to use DLSS at 540p to have a similar IQ with the same settings. Seems a cheap port to me and nothing to celebrate.
 
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Thats a wrong conclusion. The Switch 2 can have easily the power to do it natively, but the developers may simply choose to use the "power budget" elsewhere, like better textures/lightning instead.
Huh? Yes they're spending the power budget elsewhere, which is why the Switch 2 isn't powerful enough to run the game with the graphics settings we have seen in the footage at a native 1080p. OFC they could possibly do it if they downgraded graphics in other places lol.

I didn't say it was impossible to get SF6 running 1080p native on Switch 2. It's that at the graphics settings we have already seen the Switch 2 needs DLSS to achieve it when previously we thought the Switch 2 wasn't using DLSS and was powerful enough to do it natively with those settings.
 
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So much outraging when DF said it's like a ps4 hardware and now they are happy if they have to use DLSS at 540p to have a similar IQ with the same settings. Seems a cheap port to me and nothing to celebrate.
Look at Ryu's skin textures and muscles.
 
I suspect this too. Since natively rendering is more expensive, the console has little power to draw from, the frame rate target has to be constantly high and people already pointed they had issues with natively rendered output in other platforms like Series S DLSS seems to solve or mitigate all of this in some way or another as fas as I know.
I am assuming competent devs of course. Because another explanation for this, if Df is right, can be that the game is bugged and still runs in mobile mode even if docked. The whole patent of Nintendo mentions upscaling from 540p is done to save battery, so i would make no sense to use this if docked.
 
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So much outraging when DF said it's like a ps4 hardware and now they are happy if they have to use DLSS at 540p to have a similar IQ with the same settings. Seems a cheap port to me and nothing to celebrate.
It's not similar to ps4 it's much better. It has more graphical features of the ps5 / Xbox series versions. Higher res textures, more dynamic muscle, better/more hair rendering just for some stand outs.

It's not a one to one comparison.
 
Huh? Yes they're spending the power budget elsewhere, which is why the Switch 2 isn't powerful enough to run the game with the graphics settings we have seen in the footage at a native 1080p. O
Sigh. No. A console has a power budget. The devs could have simply decided that the upscaled picture looks good enough for their goals and they put some eye candy elsewhere. Or the simplest explanation is a bug that the game is still using mobile mode while docked.
 
Sigh. No. A console has a power budget. The devs could have simply decided that the upscaled picture looks good enough for their goals and they put some eye candy elsewhere.
You're saying the exact thing I am. They used the power budget elsewhere for eye candy so the switch 2 cant run it at native 1080p with that eye candy they need to use dlss. Lmao.
 
I am assuming competent devs of course. Because another explanation for this, if Df is right, can be that the game is bugged and still runs in mobile mode even if docked. The whole patent of Nintendo mentions upscaling from 540p is done to save battery, so i would make no sense to use this if docked.
Well, that would still make sense since you would optimize for the most constrained mode first I assume. On the other hand, Isn't DLSS quite power hungry as a feature to enable it it a significant way on portable mode? I wouldn't expect the batettery to last much if thye used it that way.
 
SO some of yall are bragging about a 10+ yr old fighting game that needs to be 540p before upscale in dock mode

Man what a beast of a system, def worth $500
Boy you need help with math to think 2023 was 10 years ago.

We're also impressed with the quality of the DLSS used here. Even on PC, you'd be able to tell 540p being upscaled to 1080p, but here you can't.

It's $450.

Go be salty somewhere else
 
Well, that would still make sense since you would optimize for the most constrained mode first I assume. On the other hand, Isn't DLSS quite power hungry as a feature to enable it it a significant way on portable mode? I wouldn't expect the batettery to last much if thye used it that way.
Its on the first page of this thread, a interpretation of Gameranx.
 
Nintendo recently filed a patent for some sort of proprietary upscaling tech based on DLSS right? I get what DF does in regards to analysis, but I don't think we can assume Switch 2 is doing DLSS in exactly similar ways with the same "drawbacks" or costs considering this is the first time DLSS is being used in a closed ecosystem with proprietary tech.
 
Seeing Switch 2 games render at 360p to 540p and then upscale to 1080p in handheld mode is going to give out some rough image quality.

I really want to see some actual truthful reviews now. Can't believe the shit usual YouTubers and reviewers spew.
 
They are already upscaling from 540p ? Can this console not run SF6 at 1080p natively ? It is a fucking fighting game, developers aren't even trying.
 
They are already upscaling from 540p ? Can this console not run SF6 at 1080p natively ? It is a fucking fighting game, developers aren't even trying.
My guess is it can but why should it? If you can make it look like 1080p while running at a resolution that makes the game run better without having to put in a lot of work, why not use it?

Though I wouldn't be surprised if all launch window games were told to use the tech just to show it off to investors and future development partners.
 
Thats a wrong conclusion. The Switch 2 can have easily the power to do it natively, but the developers may simply choose to use the "power budget" elsewhere, like better textures/lightning instead.

We also had a patent from Nintendo that was released earlier this year which described using DLSS to reduce file sizes.

If Google isn't lying to me, it looks like the Switch 2 version of SF6 is around 50 GB and includes the first two years of DLC, whereas the original version is around 80 GB before DLC. So that alone could be a reason to upscale.
 
540p upscaling with DLSS in the dock is disappointing, Switch 2 in the dock should easily run this game to 1080p and upscale from there with DLSS, it would look even better.
 
I think it's cool they came up with a solution that even DF couldn't detect at first. But I don't think this bodes well for Switch 2 ports of 3rd party games.
 
I don't know the reason why they used upscaling considering that the machine is decisively more powerful than a PS4 and stands at about 2/3 of a series S.

But what matters is the end result, and SF6 on Switch 2 looks great.
 
We're also impressed with the quality of the DLSS used here. Even on PC, you'd be able to tell 540p being upscaled to 1080p, but here you can't.

On PC, you wouldn't have to analyze the image to determine if DLSS was being used. You would just check the settings.
 
It's a bit of a weird flex to compare with a 12 year old console.

Nintendo has never been about graphics but happy that it has DLSS. Should mean we get less gimped versions of third party games
 
Use to power saved from upscaling the resolution to utilize better in game assets.

Or plain saving space on cartridges.

In certain example embodiments, the techniques herein may provide for decreasing the overall amount of storage space (e.g., file size) that is needed for producing images at a higher resolution size. For example, an application that generates images at a higher resolution may also require assets (e.g., texture data) that are correspondingly sized for generation of such high resolution images. Thus, by decreasing the image size that an example application renders, the data that used for such rendering may be similarly decreased in size and may thus take up less memory or storage space. For example, the size of textures used by a rendering engine may be decreased. Accordingly, the overall size that is needed to deliver an application (e.g., video game) may be decreased so as to fit onto relatively smaller sized physical media (e.g., in terms of how much storage space is provided) and/or require a decreased amount of bandwidth or data to download.

The techniques herein may advantageously provide for performance that is less bound by memory bandwidth limitations than prior approaches.


This could just be the default upscaling mode the dev kit offers and has the lowest latency as it was originally made for handheld mode because traditional AI upscaling is too energy hungry. Nintendo's patent expressively focused on 540p→1080p as it seems they found a way to have the entire image fit to a near match on the tensor cores for a low latency upscale. Probably other DLSS options available, but if its near a free lunch from 540p→1080p, same resolution detailed in the patent, then I can see this mode being used 100% by default for handheld and for docked well that is to be seen, on a dev to dev basis.

DF was blindsided for 2 weeks with this new model. 2 weeks. While you can go and take any DLSS 3 or 4 footage online and go frame by frame and you'll detect the telltale signs of the upscaling technique. So what's going on here? There's something in the patents that escapes everyone. Patent has been put offline too, likely in revision. I feel like for a very fixed hardware solution like a console and resolution target for say handheld screen which is fixed, Nvidia/Nintendo made a super efficient DLSS.
 
Hmm. Interesting news but I'm a little confused.

I've read that DLSS isn't "free," meaning that it takes significant resources. So is this working only when docked?

If so, does that mean in handheld mode it only looks 540p on its 1080p screen? Because that would be a bummer.

But if it uses DLSS in handheld too and might actually help regarding battery life, this would be great news.
 
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Or plain saving space on cartridges.






This could just be the default upscaling mode the dev kit offers and has the lowest latency as it was originally made for handheld mode because traditional AI upscaling is too energy hungry. Nintendo's patent expressively focused on 540p→1080p as it seems they found a way to have the entire image fit to a near match on the tensor cores for a low latency upscale. Probably other DLSS options available, but if its near a free lunch from 540p→1080p, same resolution detailed in the patent, then I can see this mode being used 100% by default for handheld and for docked well that is to be seen, on a dev to dev basis.

DF was blindsided for 2 weeks with this new model. 2 weeks. While you can go and take any DLSS 3 or 4 footage online and go frame by frame and you'll detect the telltale signs of the upscaling technique. So what's going on here? There's something in the patents that escapes everyone. Patent has been put offline too, likely in revision. I feel like for a very fixed hardware solution like a console and resolution target for say handheld screen which is fixed, Nvidia/Nintendo made a super efficient DLSS.
What you've bolded is literally just describing shipping a game with lower resolution textures and relying on upscaling algorithms to upscale it to HD. It's not a Nintendo invention that low resolution means less storage. I don't think you understand exactly what you're quoting and what it's saying. The whole "patent" does nothing but describe what DLSS does. It's not a unique Nintendofeature. It probably standardizes the whole process to always rely on x4 upscaling for clarification. The reason DF could not see it was because the footage was extremely shoddy and/or because we still don't know the extent of DLSS possible in handheld mode when the SoC is choked to hell by its laughable 7W power limit.

Hold your horses. The last word is far from spoken here.
 
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