But MS doesn't have any options to stop this since Xbox One has less power.
DF: Xbone Specs/Tech Analysis: GPU 33% less powerful than PS4
- Thread starter pelican
- Start date
But MS doesn't have any options to stop this since Xbox One has less power.
There won't be much games that will double framerate !
My opinion is that MS will simply target lower resolution and thanks to that they will have most of fancy effects @ stable framerate. Sony on other hand target 1080p which means they will need more power to do same things.
So:
30FPS @ 1600x900 - XBONE
30FPS @ 1920x1080 - PS4
Few effects on PS4 will look better but overall XBONE console will just lower resolution to match PS4 performance and effects quality.
This is essentially how this gen worked.
My opinion is that MS will simply target lower resolution and thanks to that they will have most of fancy effects @ stable framerate. Sony on other hand target 1080p which means they will need more power to do same things.
So:
30FPS @ 1600x900 - XBONE
30FPS @ 1920x1080 - PS4
Few effects on PS4 will look better but overall XBONE console will just lower resolution to match PS4 performance and effects quality.
This is essentially how this gen worked.
Lol cos MS control the industry right? They'll gimp their own games just to please Don Ballmer.
H_Prestige
Banned
The same code on the PS4 is likely to just run faster, without even trying.
so far, with the half-exception of KZ4, it's probable that the first wave of next gen games are going to look to the layperson like PS360 with improved IQ.
unless I'm underestimating the X1's extra-gaming appeal to the masses (personally I do have a little faith in the general public, even if I just semi-condescended toward them in my previous sentence), these things are going to sell poorly out of the gate. I suppose if PS4 has the right price (399 max) and has a game or two from high-profile franchises that are visually-stunning and well-reviewed, it'll do O.K. during the holidays. Forgive my ignorance but were Infamous and/or KZ confirmed for launch?
also, not convinced, given that the X1's lower specs are likely going to be the baseline for multiplatform developers, that the Wii U/PS3/360 won't be able to see relatively-straightforward downports with only choppier framerate/lower resolution being the major downgrades, particularly in the Wii U's case, where the RAM discrepancy is a little less severe (especially if they open up another half GB to developers), although on the other hand Ninty might have shot themselves in the foot with an architecture that makes devs jump through more hoops than they'd like to. I wonder if PS3/360 will be snuffed out more aggressively this go around as a result.
unless I'm underestimating the X1's extra-gaming appeal to the masses (personally I do have a little faith in the general public, even if I just semi-condescended toward them in my previous sentence), these things are going to sell poorly out of the gate. I suppose if PS4 has the right price (399 max) and has a game or two from high-profile franchises that are visually-stunning and well-reviewed, it'll do O.K. during the holidays. Forgive my ignorance but were Infamous and/or KZ confirmed for launch?
also, not convinced, given that the X1's lower specs are likely going to be the baseline for multiplatform developers, that the Wii U/PS3/360 won't be able to see relatively-straightforward downports with only choppier framerate/lower resolution being the major downgrades, particularly in the Wii U's case, where the RAM discrepancy is a little less severe (especially if they open up another half GB to developers), although on the other hand Ninty might have shot themselves in the foot with an architecture that makes devs jump through more hoops than they'd like to. I wonder if PS3/360 will be snuffed out more aggressively this go around as a result.
They don't mention the 40nm that Wired did in yesterday's article. I'd like to know if that is feasible in a system like this.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
Sorry if this has been asked before. Is the Gap between the two greater than the Xbox/PS2 gap?
All assets are created in a higher resolution and then downscaled, that's just how things work. Furthermore, even if multiplat games use the exact same assets, the ps4 versions can always run at a smoother framerate, with better IQ or draw distances...
Your comparison with last gen consoles is not valid either, because the Xbox 360 had a better GPU than the ps3, whereas this time the ps4 is unilaterally better than the Xbox one and both consoles use similar architectures.
And finally, microsoft has shit-all to say in what third parties do. They can't force third parties to make their games run at a lower framerate, disable AA. Yor argument doesn't even make sense.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
That's a significant power gap, I just wonder how many developers are going to take full advantage of it.
It would be awesome if the most powerful console ended up being the most popular for once.
It would be awesome if the most powerful console ended up being the most popular for once.
This cracked me up. Team Eazy forever. I still listen to that album all the time.
Interesting read. I know nothing about the tech that runs consoles but its still nice to see a breakdown of strengths and weaknesses.
I am not spinning anything. You need more power to run better resolution it is simple as that. Sony is targeting 1080p native where MS with 1,3Tf will probably target smaller native resolution (which still will be noticeable improvement over 720p) like 1600x900 (my bet). Thanks to smaller resolution they have power to run things that look similar to PS4 versions but at cost of image quality.
Keeping 1080p as native resolution for games where your competitor has better hardware is bad choice.
Same thing happened this gen. When PS3 didn't have power to run RDR as good as X360 they lowered PS3 resolution to get better framerate and effects quality.
Now we have situation where there is no longer similarity in power so one side will need to do something about it. Lowering native resolution is best choice for that.
TheGreyHulk
Member
no, it's not greater than that gap
Fusion Pizza
Member
Doesnt need to be powerful, its a media box.
BadAss2961
Member
This power gap is big enough that simply lowering resolution won't always be the answer. Effects will be lowered and/or missing entirely in certain games.
Also, what about games that don't run in true 1080p even on PS4?
....Sigh, I would take a lower resolution for 60fps.
-------------------
Have to ask, why the blurred out avatar Perkel?
Lower resolution, better framerate (while scrolling).
PS4 blurry box in E3 Trailer.
LeBrick James said:
This is big gap and i don't say that resolution will resolve everything but my main point is that there won't be any 30vs60 fps difference like some people claim.
Last two gens thought us that graphics target is always lowest common dominator. And when developer will get that working then they bump up things like resolution or effects. Almost never framerate.
dead
Could say the same thing in the opposite direction. Why do you need anything more than AppleTV or Roku? A two watt box can still stream 1080p content.
Depends on if they want to bother properly supporting TRIM.
H_Prestige
Banned
lol
People were yelling when one said 2GB is simply too little for a 2013 and hollered "you'll be lucky if it's actually 2GB".
Pimpbaa
Member
What developers do with the extra power won't be the same for every game. To say that there won't be ANY 30vs60 is just plain ridiculous.
Beermeister
Banned
Yes it is.
Actually, considering the nature of the power gap, lowering the resolution should almost always be "the answer". That doesn't make the difference any less significant though!
Trust me, I remember that. I once suggested that 4 GB wouldn't be an issue in 2013 and people started indignantly "explaining" to me how "console RAM" is not the same as in PC.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
They don't need to do it for every game, just key titles. But I agree it's started to become a far fetched scenario.
crazygambit
Member
Now that is actually a good question. We don't know anything about what's under the hood in Kinect 2.0
rohlfinator
Member
This is basically the same as the gap between GC -> Wii, right?
Agreed... roughly speaking they'd need 2x the GPU to double the framerate, and that's assuming ideal conditions (perfectly GPU-limited). I think the lower resolution on the XBone like you suggest is the most likely outcome we see in multiplat games. Maybe things like lower quality AA as well.
Agreed... roughly speaking they'd need 2x the GPU to double the framerate, and that's assuming ideal conditions (perfectly GPU-limited). I think the lower resolution on the XBone like you suggest is the most likely outcome we see in multiplat games. Maybe things like lower quality AA as well.
umm.. that't not even how it worked this gen.
this gen the devs threw their features/engine in, and then did what they needed to to run "acceptably". Of course "acceptably" was a moving target. Maybe there would be tearing. Maybe dropped frames. Maybe lesser (or no) AA. Maybe a resolution drop. Different filtering, etc.
That will be the difference, the same as it was this gen. Even without actually changing code, things like "well it runs fine with vsync and MSAAx4 on PS4 just fine at 30fps but we have to turn off vsync and do FSAAx4 on xbone to get mostly 30fps" I mean that is practically no coding involved..
IF they actually care about more detailed changes, it could go beyond that (which again happened plenty of times this gen)
How much more powerful is the PS4 actually?
PS4 advantages so far
- 50% more powerful GPU
- 40% more Ram for games
- Over 100% faster Ram
- Dedicated chipsets for audio and streaming
to free up processing power*
- 1 OS vs 3 OS's processor savings*
- Coding to metal advantage of PS4*
Xbox advantages
- cloud processing
*Granted these things are unknown since the full Xone specs haven't been fully announced. It can easily have dedicated chips for audio or use a arm processor for the three OS's. It might even allow coding beyond the direct x API, which is likely because why else wouldn't EA have PC ports like Fifa, potentially the same OS, API and hardware.
PS4 advantages so far
- 50% more powerful GPU
- 40% more Ram for games
- Over 100% faster Ram
- Dedicated chipsets for audio and streaming
to free up processing power*
- 1 OS vs 3 OS's processor savings*
- Coding to metal advantage of PS4*
Xbox advantages
- cloud processing
*Granted these things are unknown since the full Xone specs haven't been fully announced. It can easily have dedicated chips for audio or use a arm processor for the three OS's. It might even allow coding beyond the direct x API, which is likely because why else wouldn't EA have PC ports like Fifa, potentially the same OS, API and hardware.
delicious
seattle6418
Member
So much for the insiders calling them "port buddies" not too long ago...
Actually this only makes sense if Microsoft is betting heavily on diminishing returns. I posted a few times and i'm still sticking to it, that maybe the companies are just not ready to fully utilize that much potential, so the difference will only start to show on year 2-3 of this upcoming cycle.
The difference in specs is huge, the question is only if everyone will be able to take advantage from this. Microsoft thinks they don't. I hope they are wrong.
It's incredible that for the first time we have a situation like this:
PC>>>PS4>>>XBONE>>>WiiU
Nobody is a port buddy. Might be weird for the ports, or what will happens is the lowest denominator crap.
I just think it's interesting because we never had four tiers of power at the same time. People buying Geforce Titan might not need them until 2016 or so.
Actually this only makes sense if Microsoft is betting heavily on diminishing returns. I posted a few times and i'm still sticking to it, that maybe the companies are just not ready to fully utilize that much potential, so the difference will only start to show on year 2-3 of this upcoming cycle.
The difference in specs is huge, the question is only if everyone will be able to take advantage from this. Microsoft thinks they don't. I hope they are wrong.
It's incredible that for the first time we have a situation like this:
PC>>>PS4>>>XBONE>>>WiiU
Nobody is a port buddy. Might be weird for the ports, or what will happens is the lowest denominator crap.
I just think it's interesting because we never had four tiers of power at the same time. People buying Geforce Titan might not need them until 2016 or so.
But since the new designs are closer to PC architecture, won't the beefier system simply have more of the graphical effects that the PC port gets? They're already creating a game that can have settings turned on and off to tweak the game to make it smooth on a wealth of PC specs, and since the PS4 is basically another "PC spec", won't it be fairly easy for them to just tweak the graphics specs of the game to best fit the PS4 power?
This idea that all ports will default to the lowest common demoninator doesn't really fly when these same games are being ported to the system that has a wealth of graphics options...the PC.
This idea that all ports will default to the lowest common demoninator doesn't really fly when these same games are being ported to the system that has a wealth of graphics options...the PC.
I don't see anything inherent in the XB1 platform that makes it more suitable for "cloud processing" than PS4. If you want to list an advantage for it make it "on-chip low latency memory pool" or something.
rohlfinator
Member
They are still "port buddies"... the architecture is really really similar. PS4 will get the superior versions, but the process of porting will be much easier than it was this gen.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Not really, because that metric is largely dependent on seeing the Xbox One GPU more like a part where 600GFLOPs represents 50% of GPU's overall power, and so any gap of equal amount must also represent a 50% advantage over this GPU. But when you do that, you aren't really seeing the Xbox One GPU as the 1.2TFLOPS GPU that it actually is. When you start with the ps4's TFLOP count as your base, you actually calculate the xbox one GPU as a full 1.2 TFLOP part, unbiased by the fact that 600GFLOPS represents 50% of 1.2 TFLOPS, and that's how you arrive at the 33% advantage for the PS4 GPU.
Microsoft Azure is all you need to answer that question plus the dedicated hardware on one of the move engines. It may not be more suitable for cloud processing, but it may be better setup for it, especially with the amount of servers Microsoft are dedicating.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
double post.
I was trying to throw them bone here. Guess I could add 32 MB of low latency ram.
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