Support NeoGAF

[LordOfChaos]

Got the patch, I still think performance mode looks more blurry than a game like this should be on PS5, but I feel quality mode and quickly go back. Ah well. I hope they add FSR later or something.

 

[wizaga]

The best settings so far for my LG E9 in performance mode: i have the tv HDMI on the game output with game mode on, sharpness i turn up to 25, and most importantly put super resolution on high (not available on PC mode), i found these settings to make the game in performace much nicer with no noticable inputlag increase at all

 

[wizaga]

Oh i forgot as i metionet earlier also put the ps5 in 1440p mode in the system settings if your tv supports is

 

[paolo11]

DF saying the Nibelheim section, aka the games opening is the ugliest part of the game and after this the visuals improve a lot. With a lot more detail and nice geometry.

This is very surprising as the usual pattern in games is that the first few hours are of the highest quality with the rest sometimes not being to the same standard.

Performance mode hovering around 1100p, mostly stable 60fps, extreme stress situations can see it dip to 55fps, but overall decent.

Quality mode mostly rendering at a full 4K 2160p, very stable 30fps, dips only about 1fps.

When considering this I think they could deliver a decent 40fps here without dropping the resolution much and it would be a very good middleground. I guess many devs think 120hz/HDMI 2.1 TVs aren't in many homes yet and they're probably right?

I guess quality mode is the mode to go. I wish they can patch performance mode to 1440p just like Integrade.

 

[balls of snow]

I've a LG G3 and 30fps is perfectly fine for me ,no problem at all.

Lg cx, motion smoothing on baby. All 30 fps look like 60 fps. Git gud with the input lag.

 

[buenoblue]

Why not? This game is $94 CAD before tax in Canada. You can bet i'm having second thoughts on paying that much for a perf mode that is pretty subpar.

Everyones' eyes are different. I can't do 30fps on OLED.

That's why I went Samsung OLED. They have Game motion plus interpolation. Input lag goes from like 10ms to 30ms but that is still very playable. Does it look like 60fps? No not really. Feels More like 40fps modes on games, but it gets rid of the double image judder on 30fps games and smooths out the motion just enough.

 

[jumpship]

Pro consoles aren't going to solve this.

The mid-Gen updates last Gen didn't solve this issue, all it did was allow developers to add more bells and whistles while not addressing overall performance. When this Gen came out, everyone was convinced we had put 30fps behind us because it was a step up from the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X who were already sliding into 30fps territory.

Three years into this generation where 4k/120 was a selling point of both consoles, we're back to 30fps with graphical bells and whistles taking developer's priorities over 60fps and good texture/IQ.

Anyone thinking it's going to be any different with an overpriced "pro" console is setting themselves up for disappointment. Just spend another $600+ - I'm sure THIS time you'll get the amazing graphics they promise.

With the trend this gen of optional quality / performance modes for most games the bare minimum I'd expect from a PS5 Pro is a the ability to play games with the PS5 4K quality mode but @60 fps and PS5 performance mode @120 fps. If the rumored Ai Upscaler is true it would help achieving that goal unless the game is cpu bound of course.

Theres no doubt a side-by-side comparison would show a noticable improvement running on a PS5 Pro compared to the regular PS5 version of the game. Otherwise what's the point in making it in the first place.

 

[paolo11]

The best settings so far for my LG E9 in performance mode: i have the tv HDMI on the game output with game mode on, sharpness i turn up to 25, and most importantly put super resolution on high (not available on PC mode), i found these settings to make the game in performace much nicer with no noticable inputlag increase at all

How do I do super resolution? I got LG Cx

 

[wizaga]

How do I do super resolution? I got LG Cx

Put the HDMI input to game input, then turn on game mode in the picture settings settings. After you have done that go in to your picture settings and find "advanced settings" and there you will find super resolution put that on high

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I guess quality mode is the mode to go. I wish they can patch performance mode to 1440p just like Integrade.

I think the performance mode is a tricky one as they need to maintain a locked 60fps which is never easy in a game with a lot of particle affects, characters to render, as well as large environments with a ton of NPCs, small details and enemies. Sure it can be done, but I think a 40fps mode would be a lot easier and provide a noticeable boost whilst maintaining a much clearer IQ.

 

[Low Moral Fibre]

People now talking about using motion smoothing/interpolation lol. Wow...

Frame gen can be ok if you are trying to get to 166fps or 240fps but from 30 fps holy shit I dunno what to say lads but you must be a different species to me to tolerate that.

 

[paolo11]

I think the performance mode is a tricky one as they need to maintain a locked 60fps which is never easy in a game with a lot of particle affects, characters to render, as well as large environments with a ton of NPCs, small details and enemies. Sure it can be done, but I think a 40fps mode would be a lot easier and provide a noticeable boost whilst maintaining a much clearer IQ.

Im full support on 40fps . I just wish they are listening and will apply it

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Im full support on 40fps . I just wish they are listening and will apply it

Yeah, I think most devs don't realise the demand for it. But more and more are getting sets with HDMI 2.1 so I think eventually it will become somewhat common.

 

[Fbh]

It's not just about prettier graphics. Rebirth has changed the game design by adding larger open worlds that simply cost too much to render on the GPU. If anything, the graphics fidelity is largely the same, what they did do was use the PS5 to create a larger open world to match their vision for the original.

So basically what you and Vick are saying is that you want to curtail and limit dev's creative vision just so you could get 60 fps.
What you and Vick are arguing is a generation of cross gen games build around PS4 era specs just with double the resolution and double the FPS.

If thats the case then I am sorry, but I need to be harsh here, and I say this with love in my heart for both of you, but maybe console gaming is not for you. For 9 generations now, the goal for each generation was to push gaming forward not just in visuals but also and more importantly gameplay. We have seen this before. We saw Kojima ditch 60 fps because he wanted larger areas in MGS3 compared to the linear corridors in MGS2. And MGS3 is probably the greatest MGS game of them all. Technically the PS2 could do 60 fps but devs like Rockstar, Kojima, and Bungie decided that scale and scope is far more important than 60 fps.

Ive been building PCs since 2003. Did it in 2011 as well as 2018 because by the tail end of the console generation, ive had my fill of 30 fps games and want to play everything at 60 fps so trust me when i say i get the appeal. But id rather have FF7's open world areas instead of yet another corridor game. Star Wars Jedi Survivor is another example. The PS5 ssd helped them create way larger open worlds and even the linear levels were way bigger in scope than previously. The number of enemies they throw at you is also very impressive. Would you rather have 60 fps instead of those things?

If it was just about fancier graphics then we wouldnt be having this discussion in a FF7 Rebirth thread because it has one of the smallest leap in visuals we've seen this gen.

See above.

On a base level I agree with your point. I agree games like GTA (3-V) or MGS3 or Shadow of the Colossus benefited from not focusing on 60fps because it allowed devs to make games that felt next gen and were doing stuff that just wouldn't have been posible if they were aiming for 60fps.

But with these modern games I'm just not seeing how they are pushing gaming forward in any meaningful way. I don't doubt Rebirth is a good game but how is the open world in it doing anything that wasn't possible in Forbidden West, or RDR2, or AC Odyssey, or Elden Ring or Hogwarts Legacy or Spiderman2 ?. From what I've seen/read in reviews it's just another bog standard open world with some fun activities spread around, it even has Ubisoft towers. There's no interesting new traversal, or physics, or giant enemies roaming around in real time, or big groups of enemies with complex AI, or an unprecedented level of interactivity with the world, or AC Unity tier crowds in a bigger world, etc.
You say it's not just about fancier graphics? So how is Rebirth evolving open world games beyond just slightly fancier graphics? If Square is unable to make what tons of other developers do that's just technical incompetence on their part.

A game where you argument makes sense to me is Tears of The Kingdom. Yeah it's 30fps, but it's also running on a mid tier tablet from 2017 and it's doing some impressive physics in a massive open world setting. It's making an open world that feels more interactive and fun to explore than most games which are being made for way more powerful hardware. In that scenario I agree demanding 60fps wouldn't make sense because a game like TotK isn't doable at 60fps on the Switch hardware, you'd be telling Nintendo to limit their game design for the sake of performance.

I'm not someone who hates 30fps no matter what. But if you are going to give me a 30fps Ps5 game it should be doing something that's comparatively as impressive as what TotK does on Switch hardware.
If it's just going to be the same sort of games we already had last gen but with better graphics then I'd rather get slightly more dated graphics at 60fps and with decent IQ

 

[Physiognomonics]

Got the patch, I still think performance mode looks more blurry than a game like this should be on PS5, but I feel quality mode and quickly go back. Ah well. I hope they add FSR later or something.

With FSR the combats (with tons of transparencies and particles) are going to be a visual abomination! FSR won't make those bad textures look better.

 

[Bojji]

It's not just about prettier graphics. Rebirth has changed the game design by adding larger open worlds that simply cost too much to render on the GPU. If anything, the graphics fidelity is largely the same, what they did do was use the PS5 to create a larger open world to match their vision for the original.


Ive been building PCs since 2003. Did it in 2011 as well as 2018 because by the tail end of the console generation, ive had my fill of 30 fps games and want to play everything at 60 fps so trust me when i say i get the appeal. But id rather have FF7's open world areas instead of yet another corridor game. Star Wars Jedi Survivor is another example. The PS5 ssd helped them create way larger open worlds and even the linear levels were way bigger in scope than previously. The number of enemies they throw at you is also very impressive. Would you rather have 60 fps instead of those things?

If it was just about fancier graphics then we wouldnt be having this discussion in a FF7 Rebirth thread because it has one of the smallest leap in visuals we've seen this gen.

See above.

UE4 is not a good engine to build open world games in it, it was proven many times now. They chose wrong software for this job.

Jedi Survivor is pretty much 60FPS and above 1080p once they got rid of that useless Ray Tracing in performance mode so I don't get what you are talking about.

Rebirth IQ is 100% developers fault, they don't have 720p internal res like some games but 1080-1440p - you can get decent IQ from that on 4K screen with right upscaling/reconstruction. They are just incompetent at the moment.

 

[SlimySnake]

UE4 is not a good engine to build open world games in it, it was proven many times now. They chose wrong software for this job.

Jedi Survivor is pretty much 60FPS and above 1080p once they got rid of that useless Ray Tracing in performance mode so I don't get what you are talking about.

Rebirth IQ is 100% developers fault, they don't have 720p internal res like some games but 1080-1440p - you can get decent IQ from that on 4K screen with right upscaling/reconstruction. They are just incompetent at the moment.

my point was that they went from smaller areas to massive open worlds in jedi. not just to improve graphics but to provide actual gameplay additions.

Im sure rebirth's performance IQ issues are their fault. I didnt blame anyone else.

 

[Bojji]

my point was that they went from smaller areas to massive open worlds in jedi. not just to improve graphics but to provide actual gameplay additions.

Im sure rebirth's performance IQ issues are their fault. I didnt blame anyone else.

But they did that and game is still 60fps vs 30 in JFO on PS4:



In generations before with very limited poly budget difference between 30fps and 60fps target could be quite big, but past PS4 gen games barely look that much better in 30fps (aside resolution).

Now it's mostly about CPU load, that was the point for 30fps only modes in Starield and and Plague Tale. Plague Tale devs did overcome this with some cuts and have HFR mode now.

We have great looking open world games running in 60FPS, I don't think any developers are really limited right now by the hardware like they were in PS2/PS3/PS4 gens. "Gameplay" barely improved since PS3 times so looks like better hardware and lower framerate targets aren't really changing much in developers "visions".

 

[SlimySnake]

On a base level I agree with your point. I agree games like GTA (3-V) or MGS3 or Shadow of the Colossus benefited from not focusing on 60fps because it allowed devs to make games that felt next gen and were doing stuff that just wouldn't have been posible if they were aiming for 60fps.

But with these modern games I'm just not seeing how they are pushing gaming forward in any meaningful way. I don't doubt Rebirth is a good game but how is the open world in it doing anything that wasn't possible in Forbidden West, or RDR2, or AC Odyssey, or Elden Ring or Hogwarts Legacy or Spiderman2 ?. From what I've seen/read in reviews it's just another bog standard open world with some fun activities spread around, it even has Ubisoft towers. There's no interesting new traversal, or physics, or giant enemies roaming around in real time, or big groups of enemies with complex AI, or an unprecedented level of interactivity with the world, or AC Unity tier crowds in a bigger world, etc.
You say it's not just about fancier graphics? So how is Rebirth evolving open world games beyond just slightly fancier graphics? If Square is unable to make what tons of other developers do that's just technical incompetence on their part.

A game where you argument makes sense to me is Tears of The Kingdom. Yeah it's 30fps, but it's also running on a mid tier tablet from 2017 and it's doing some impressive physics in a massive open world setting. It's making an open world that feels more interactive and fun to explore than most games which are being made for way more powerful hardware. In that scenario I agree demanding 60fps wouldn't make sense because a game like TotK isn't doable at 60fps on the Switch hardware, you'd be telling Nintendo to limit their game design for the sake of performance.

I'm not someone who hates 30fps no matter what. But if you are going to give me a 30fps Ps5 game it should be doing something that's comparatively as impressive as what TotK does on Switch hardware.
If it's just going to be the same sort of games we already had last gen but with better graphics then I'd rather get slightly more dated graphics at 60fps and with decent IQ

It's hard to quantify these engines without profiling exactly what they are doing. Every game is different even if its built on the same engine.

For example, you can switch between 3 characters during a battle in FF7. Do other UE4 open world games allow this? Days Gone? Dead Island 2? Gears of Way 5? Each of these characters have their own moveset, their own animations, and we just dont know how their engine is allocating resources towards this stuff compared to other games. You brought up Zelda ToTK which was my GOTY last year, but lets be honest, it's no RPG despite being impressively systems driven. Its just that the systems are different. I wouldnt knock Zelda for not having FF7 features, dont think its fair to compare game engines like that.

I do agree that we should be seeing a gigantic leap in physics based systems, but like I said, they did utilize the hardware by moving to bigger areas so its not like they upped the resolution, texture quality, slapped on RT and called it a day like so many devs did during the cross gen period.

You brought up Spiderman 2 and I took a lot of shit for praising it in the next gen graphics thread where Matrix Awakens is our barometer for next gen. But to me, the stuff they did with the flying speeds, increased NPC and traffic density and various boss fights was next gen worthy. Same goes for FF16 which did setpieces and boss fights on a scale i did not see all last gen. We dont know if Rebirth will have those massive setpieces, but from what ive seen in the second demo, the scale has definitely gotten bigger while keeping the RPG systems intact.

P.S Star Wars has a couple of these amazing setpieces that I would love to see on last gen hardware. I bet they have loading screens galore a la MGS4's act 3 chase. The number of enemies on screen at once likely also takes a hit. These are gameplay upgrades we have gotten this gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

But they did that and game is still 60fps vs 30 in JFO on PS4:



In generations before with very limited poly budget difference between 30fps and 60fps target could be quite big, but past PS4 gen games barely look that much better in 30fps (aside resolution).

Now it's mostly about CPU load, that was the point for 30fps only modes in Starield and and Plague Tale. Plague Tale devs did overcome this with some cuts and have HFR mode now.

Sorry i am confused. FF7 has a 60 fps mode too. I dont know what we are arguing about here. I dont really disagree with anything you are saying other than the bit below.

I agree UE4 is not a good engine to build open world games. With some rare exceptions like Gears 5 and Dead Island 2, every game has had issues. Even Days Gone which is one of the best looking open world UE4 games had severe streaming issues on the PS4. Though i hear they were fixed by the time the PC version released.

But every engine is different. Every game is different. I would not look at something like Horizon FW or Plague's Tale and then shit on an RPG with various underlying systems that may or may not be CPU heavy. Starfield got so much crap for its 30 fps mode but on PC you could immediately tell that it was the most taxing next gen game we had had in terms of CPU performance. Even after months of optimization, they were only able to save around 10-15% of the CPU resources. if the game was developed on the xbox series consoles first then yes, they were definitely limited by that CPU which we know from DF's test is quite shit. It's possible Rebirth devs are running into the same bottlenecks.

What ended up happening with Starfield was that a clear message was sent to devs: Downgrade your games to run on shit CPUs and GPUs we bought a decade ago or we will call you lazy and incompetent. Meanwhile i was looking at almost 80% CPU usage and thinking wait, this is the first game thats actually utilized my CPU and im supposed to be mad about this?

We have great looking open world games running in 60FPS, I don't think any developers is really limited right now by the hardware like they were in PS2/PS3/PS4 gens. "Gameplay" barely improved since PS3 times so looks like better hardware and lower framerate targets aren't really changing much in developers "visions".

I disagree. I can see exactly what the GPU usage of these games are on PC and they are always maxed out unlike CPUs which arent. FF16 on the PS5 runs at 1440p down to 1080p. They are clearly limited by the GPU here. When it comes out on PC, im sure my 3080 will be able to run it at double the framerate but unless they leave half of the GPU unused, we can safely say that they did utilize 100% of the PS5 GPU, they just ran out of resources.

 

[Bojji]

Sorry i am confused. FF7 has a 60 fps mode too. I dont know what we are arguing about here. I dont really disagree with anything you are saying other than the bit below.

I agree UE4 is not a good engine to build open world games. With some rare exceptions like Gears 5 and Dead Island 2, every game has had issues. Even Days Gone which is one of the best looking open world UE4 games had severe streaming issues on the PS4. Though i hear they were fixed by the time the PC version released.

But every engine is different. Every game is different. I would not look at something like Horizon FW or Plague's Tale and then shit on an RPG with various underlying systems that may or may not be CPU heavy. Starfield got so much crap for its 30 fps mode but on PC you could immediately tell that it was the most taxing next gen game we had had in terms of CPU performance. Even after months of optimization, they were only able to save around 10-15% of the CPU resources. if the game was developed on the xbox series consoles first then yes, they were definitely limited by that CPU which we know from DF's test is quite shit. It's possible Rebirth devs are running into the same bottlenecks.

What ended up happening with Starfield was that a clear message was sent to devs: Downgrade your games to run on shit CPUs and GPUs we bought a decade ago or we will call you lazy and incompetent. Meanwhile i was looking at almost 80% CPU usage and thinking wait, this is the first game thats actually utilized my CPU and im supposed to be mad about this?

I disagree. I can see exactly what the GPU usage of these games are on PC and they are always maxed out unlike CPUs which arent. FF16 on the PS5 runs at 1440p down to 1080p. They are clearly limited by the GPU here. When it comes out on PC, im sure my 3080 will be able to run it at double the framerate but unless they leave half of the GPU unused, we can safely say that they did utilize 100% of the PS5 GPU, they just ran out of resources.

I thought you were talking about how 30FPS target would allow devs to reach new heights when in the case of Jedi, Spider Man 2 and Horizon 2 they were able to that and have 60fps modes, no problem.

Most super CPU heavy games are like that due to incompetence and not some actual CPU heavy stuff that players can see, Jedi on PC is a fucking mess and still runs like shit on fastest CPUs on the planet with RT. Starfield has less open world than Skyrim yet is murders fast CPUs, joke is that it's not really utilizing CPUs in any decent way:

It performs best when you allow it to use less than half of the CPU

In PS3 gen we had wizards at Sony utilizing 100% of Cell SPUs, right now most of the code performs like shit and many, many games are CPU limited. I guess it's partially thanks to how developers are hired, that 18 months contracts and fact that many games are using CPU unoptimized engines like UE4/UE5.

UE5:

CP:

And they are changing Red engine to UE5...

PS3 era game:



Now compare that to modern games with completely static environments that require 13900K to run decently

 

[Arioco]

That's why I went Samsung OLED. They have Game motion plus interpolation. Input lag goes from like 10ms to 30ms but that is still very playable. Does it look like 60fps? No not really. Feels More like 40fps modes on games, but it gets rid of the double image judder on 30fps games and smooths out the motion just enough.

I don't know what happened to Samsung Game Motion Plus, but it definitely used to look and feel like 60 fps on older TVs, with some artifacts in static elements, but great overall. Now as you say it's more like a 40 fps experience, with the same artefacts, of course. If I compare my Samsung Q7FN from 2018 to my newer Samsung OLED the difference is night and day. It's not affecting only OLEDs though, I've seen people complain about this very issue and they owned a high-end Samsung QLED, so Samsung has done something to Game Motion Plus on all newer models, both LED and OLED. Now the only way you can achieve the same effect is exit game mode first and crank up the Motion Plus option, but that will increase impug lag significantly, so it's not ideal either.

 

[buenoblue]

I don't know what happened to Samsung Game Motion Plus, but it definitely used to look and feel like 60 fps on older TVs, with some artifacts in static elements, but great overall. Now as you say it's more like a 40 fps experience, with the same artefacts, of course. If I compare my Samsung Q7FN from 2018 to my newer Samsung OLED the difference is night and day. It's not affecting only OLEDs though, I've seen people complain about this very issue and they owned a high-end Samsung QLED, so Samsung has done something to Game Motion Plus on all newer models, both LED and OLED. Now the only way you can achieve the same effect is exit game mode first and crank up the Motion Plus option, but that will increase impug lag significantly, so it's not ideal either.

Yeah I heard they nerfed it too. I've tried interpolation without game mode and it is definitely smoother, though I do notice far more artifacts so maybe that's why they changed it . Still I much prefer game motion plus on for 30fps games. Like I said it gets rid of that horrible double image when panning the camera and I batley notice any artifacts.

 

[SlimySnake]

I thought you were talking about how 30FPS target would allow devs to reach new heights when in the case of Jedi, Spider Man 2 and Horizon 2 they were able to that and have 60fps modes, no problem.

Yeah, but I also said that the cost of those 60 fps modes were too high. Horizon 2 was broken in performance mode for months. Literally months. A shimmering mess. Most people played in that shitty mode. Jedi didnt get that no-RT patch until september, like 5 months after launch. people were playing a 650p game that wasnt even a locked 60 fps constantly dropping to mid 40s. FF16 has the same drops to mid 40s and literally caps all combat scenarios at 720p to get a locked 60 fps. Spiderman 2 is the best of them all but even that runs at 1080p internally. But thats another game people say doesnt look next gen. I wonder why.

I have seen so many people dismiss games like Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Jedi, FF16 because they played the shitty versions. That was my reason for saying devs should stick with 30 fps modes because at least that way the players will see the game in its best light. Again, going back to my original post, Uncharted 4 was 30 fps, after they revealed the game as a 60 fps game. No one cared because we all saw that uncharted was no longer a corridor shooter. It had wide open areas, massive setpieces that went on forever, driveable vehicles etc etc. Back then we understood the cost of going open world for linear games.

I am sure the issues in the performance mode will eventually be fixed like they were by GG and Respawn. It will take months though and I dont think its sheer incompetence. GG is anything but. Respawn too. These games are just doing a lot of new things and a lot of times, offering a 60 fps mode means retooling the entire graphics pipeline which takes time they dont have.

Most super CPU heavy games are like that due to incompetence and not some actual CPU heavy stuff that players can see, Jedi on PC is a fucking mess and still runs like shit on fastest CPUs on the planet with RT. Starfield has less open world than Skyrim yet is murders fast CPUs, joke is that it's not really utilizing CPUs in any decent way:

Honestly i was shocked when i saw this graphic from DF because my CPU profiling was showing 70-80% usage on each thread.

This was not the case with any other cpu heavy game. Star Wars Jedi is exceptionally poor with threads just sitting there in the teens. hell, 99% of the games not named cyberpunk and starfield top out at like 15-20%.

Starfield like most bethesda games uses the CPU more than most games. yes, its probably not as optimized as it could be, but its one of those rare games where i could excuse it because of their usage.

P.S I should mention that the PS3's cell processor was a dedicated chip with its own cooling. the PS5 cpu is part of an APU that has to shares it thermal budget with the GPU. If devs push it too hard like they did with the cell processor or like they do with GPUs, the GPU might start to get throttled. my guess is thats probably why we dont see much multithreading. the more CPUs are running the hotter it might get. the PS360 CPUs didnt have to worry about that.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Not offering a 60fps mode that is entirely achievable because one person on the planet feels like the games aren't being respected.

Meanwhile, everyone continues to play in 60fps because it actually looks better. Why try to take away things from others?

if a game had a 60fps mode but mysteriously could only display on black and white, I think I would still play 60fps.

The ship has sailed on 30fps, the displays aren't made for it. It would be like insisting everyone have big N64 huds and text because you are stuck on an old ass TV.

I still think 30fps should be available and have a benefit. I won't take that away. Dragons Dogma 2 is gonna be the moment Capcom fell from grace.

Graphics are so slow to evolve where we may have to be in a cycle where one gen Is linear and beautiful, the next gen is the same graphics at a larger scale. Then the process repeats.

The problem is PS4 pro showed us the benefits of this gen at 30fps, cheating the natural evolution. Now photomode chasers demand games achieve the next level of that 30fps timeline, but fail to realize it isn't the real timeline.

 

[SlimySnake]

Meanwhile, everyone continues to play in 60fps because it actually looks better.

This looks better to you?

No one should be playing this game with that blurry IQ. And the screenshots dont even capture the artifacts that you see in motion. just watch the video and you will see that it definitely does not look better just because it feels smoother at 60 fps.

FF7 remake has a great 60 fps mode. I was just playing it a few minutes ago and it looked indistinguishable from the native 4k mode. But there is something really wrong here. likely because their internal resolution is lower and other post processing effects are running at half the resolution to save on performance. Alan Wake 2 had a similar issue that plagued its image quality.

 

[CGNoire]

Nice Spoiler there at the opening...DF ya Fucking Dipshits.

 

[Perfo]

60fps instantly makes a game look better without even considering the overall IQ, if anything because in 30fps the moment you turn the camera you can't see shit! But Square Enix should really work on cleaning the image up a bit like they did with Forspoken…

 

[Bojji]

Yeah, but I also said that the cost of those 60 fps modes were too high. Horizon 2 was broken in performance mode for months. Literally months. A shimmering mess. Most people played in that shitty mode. Jedi didnt get that no-RT patch until september, like 5 months after launch. people were playing a 650p game that wasnt even a locked 60 fps constantly dropping to mid 40s. FF16 has the same drops to mid 40s and literally caps all combat scenarios at 720p to get a locked 60 fps. Spiderman 2 is the best of them all but even that runs at 1080p internally. But thats another game people say doesnt look next gen. I wonder why.

I have seen so many people dismiss games like Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Jedi, FF16 because they played the shitty versions. That was my reason for saying devs should stick with 30 fps modes because at least that way the players will see the game in its best light. Again, going back to my original post, Uncharted 4 was 30 fps, after they revealed the game as a 60 fps game. No one cared because we all saw that uncharted was no longer a corridor shooter. It had wide open areas, massive setpieces that went on forever, driveable vehicles etc etc. Back then we understood the cost of going open world for linear games.

I am sure the issues in the performance mode will eventually be fixed like they were by GG and Respawn. It will take months though and I dont think its sheer incompetence. GG is anything but. Respawn too. These games are just doing a lot of new things and a lot of times, offering a 60 fps mode means retooling the entire graphics pipeline which takes time they dont have.

Honestly i was shocked when i saw this graphic from DF because my CPU profiling was showing 70-80% usage on each thread.

This was not the case with any other cpu heavy game. Star Wars Jedi is exceptionally poor with threads just sitting there in the teens. hell, 99% of the games not named cyberpunk and starfield top out at like 15-20%.

Starfield like most bethesda games uses the CPU more than most games. yes, its probably not as optimized as it could be, but its one of those rare games where i could excuse it because of their usage.

P.S I should mention that the PS3's cell processor was a dedicated chip with its own cooling. the PS5 cpu is part of an APU that has to shares it thermal budget with the GPU. If devs push it too hard like they did with the cell processor or like they do with GPUs, the GPU might start to get throttled. my guess is thats probably why we dont see much multithreading. the more CPUs are running the hotter it might get. the PS360 CPUs didnt have to worry about that.

FFXVI is definitely GPU limited most of the time but beauty of GPU limit is that there is no good reason to NOT offer locked 60 - just drop resolution enough and they did exact that in combat. They should have offere locked 60 experience for anyone who wanted it in 720-900p resolution. They could have made 40fps mode etc. But they didn't bother, they don't care. Game even has massive drops below 30FPS in one entire area (Waloed).

At least 30FPS mode had decent motion blur to smooth it on modern display.

Jedi devs were stubborn, there was no reason for performance mode to have any RT in the first place, it looked like shit and performed like shit. Something that PC users could disable from the get go (also not on series s).

This looks better to you?

No one should be playing this game with that blurry IQ. And the screenshots dont even capture the artifacts that you see in motion. just watch the video and you will see that it definitely does not look better just because it feels smoother at 60 fps.

FF7 remake has a great 60 fps mode. I was just playing it a few minutes ago and it looked indistinguishable from the native 4k mode. But there is something really wrong here. likely because their internal resolution is lower and other post processing effects are running at half the resolution to save on performance. Alan Wake 2 had a similar issue that plagued its image quality.

60fps doesn't look like choppy mess in motion.

Right now I don't have any good option to play this amazing game:

- 30fps mode that looks like garbage in motion, without ANY camera motion blur

- 60fps mode that looked bad but they decided to make it even worse on release day

When game could have:

- proper 30fps mode with motion blur (almost zero performance impact) like XVI
- good 60fps if they used some decent upscaling, they have pixels and performance to do that

- MAYBE some 40FPS to blance IQ and performance

 

[CrustyBritches]

I tried out the demo on my 32" monitor and I would definitely go with Performance mode. In Quality mode anytime you pan the camera it feels sludgy and looks weird. Almost choppy. At least in Performance mode you get super smooth camera panning and movement.

 

[buenoblue]

The trouble is I bet digital foundry crew insist on having "calibrated" screens
i.e sharpness at zero and brightness set to 120 nit dullness.

Is the game blurrier than I'd want? Yes. But just turn the sharpness up and add a bit more contrast and it looks fine.

 

[Zuzu]

Yeah, doubt I'll buy this as it currently is because of that terrible image quality in performance mode. I'll have to wait for the PC version or a PS5 Pro version. I have a feeling that the eventual PC version will be a bit of a mess. UE4 + Open World + Square Enix + PC = potential disaster.

Well I didn't hold out for long lol. I preordered the twin pack and will probably just have to tolerate the 30fps mode. Maybe I'll switch to 60fps when doing non-important side quests. I don't want to run the risk of having too much of the game spoiled which could happen if I wait.

 

[Physiognomonics]

This looks better to you?

No one should be playing this game with that blurry IQ. And the screenshots dont even capture the artifacts that you see in motion. just watch the video and you will see that it definitely does not look better just because it feels smoother at 60 fps.

FF7 remake has a great 60 fps mode. I was just playing it a few minutes ago and it looked indistinguishable from the native 4k mode. But there is something really wrong here. likely because their internal resolution is lower and other post processing effects are running at half the resolution to save on performance. Alan Wake 2 had a similar issue that plagued its image quality.

Of course it could be better in performance mode (maybe they'll improve it) but are you playing using screenshots?

FFXVI is definitely GPU limited most of the time but beauty of GPU limit is that there is no good reason to NOT offer locked 60 - just drop resolution enough and they did exact that in combat. They should have offere locked 60 experience for anyone who wanted it in 720-900p resolution. They could have made 40fps mode etc. But they didn't bother, they don't care. Game even has massive drops below 30FPS in one entire area (Waloed).

At least 30FPS mode had decent motion blur to smooth it on modern display.

Jedi devs were stubborn, there was no reason for performance mode to have any RT in the first place, it looked like shit and performed like shit. Something that PC users could disable from the get go (also not on series s).



60fps doesn't look like choppy mess in motion.

...

This

I tried out the demo on my 32" monitor and I would definitely go with Performance mode. In Quality mode anytime you pan the camera it feels sludgy and looks weird. Almost choppy. At least in Performance mode you get super smooth camera panning and movement.

And this.

 

[Arioco]

Yeah I heard they nerfed it too. I've tried interpolation without game mode and it is definitely smoother, though I do notice far more artifacts so maybe that's why they changed it . Still I much prefer game motion plus on for 30fps games. Like I said it gets rid of that horrible double image when panning the camera and I batley notice any artifacts.

Game Motion Plus definitely helps with a game like this, which runs at 30 fps with no motion blur in Graphics Mode. I just think it's a bit of a shame Samsung nerfed it somehow because the difference used to be staggering. Last gen I played several PS4 games using Game Motion Plus and it made a huge difference while causing very little input lag. You would expect this feature to be better now than it was 6 or 7 years ago, so I wonder what happened to it. It's a bit weird.

 

[The artful mincer]

We saw Kojima ditch 60 fps because he wanted larger areas in MGS3 compared to the linear corridors in MGS2. And MGS3 is probably the greatest MGS game of them all. Technically the PS2 could do 60 fps but devs like Rockstar, Kojima, and Bungie decided that scale and scope is far more important than 60 fps.

Kojima and MGS3 is always a good example about the value staying at 30fps for GAMEPLAY purposes. MGS3 is so superior to MGS2 it's not funny.

He did it last gen as well going from MGS5 to Death Stranding. Death Stranding was also the superior game.

It's far more forward thinking to be ambitious and stick to 30 than be less ambitious and go 60.

MGS3 is now 60fps with the same god tier level design and boss fights. MGS2 still has the same shitty small level design no matter how many GPUS you throw at it.

 

[Quezacolt]

Have you actually played the patched demo? I believe the whole drama is now completely overblown. Performance mode is fine now. The problem is that the game runs at a low resolution at 60fps. But it's not worse than those latest 720p- 1080p 60fps games.

The problem isn't the resolution. I've played ps3 games on my LG CX, and the low res didnt bother me. In this case the issue is how blurry and pixelated the image looks. It reminds me of Strangers of Paradise Final Fantasy Origins. That game also looked super pixelated even at the 4k mode
It was one of the worst looking games i tried, just for that reason.

With rebirth, its the pixelated look + blurryness that makes the image a complete mess that i cant get used to.

I'll be playing on graphics mode. 30fps never nothered me on my Oled tv.
Only issue with 30fps this gen is how devs seem to not know how to make 30fps play well.

Demon's souls remake 30fps is terrible, but i can play bloodborne just fine, same with dark souls remaster on the switch.

And this applies to many other games this gen.

 

[DiscoDave]

Currently replaying remake so dropping to 30fps won't be good especially since been playing everything at 60 lately and even alot at 120 on COD. I refuse to play it looking that shit at 60fps though and im sure will get used to 30 again. Have a good pc but there is no way I can wait.

Honestly don't see what's wrong playing 30fps on oled, I never noticed anything bad, though I'll be playing this on a large LCD down stairs as really like the extra brightness and size.

 

[adamsapple]

This looks better to you?

No one should be playing this game with that blurry IQ. And the screenshots dont even capture the artifacts that you see in motion. just watch the video and you will see that it definitely does not look better just because it feels smoother at 60 fps.

FF7 remake has a great 60 fps mode. I was just playing it a few minutes ago and it looked indistinguishable from the native 4k mode. But there is something really wrong here. likely because their internal resolution is lower and other post processing effects are running at half the resolution to save on performance. Alan Wake 2 had a similar issue that plagued its image quality.

There was another moment in the video where they show a side by side of trees (?) and the performance mode looked like a water-color smear.

No way I'm playing it like that either.

They should aim for a 40hz or VRR unlocked quality mode.

 

[DavidGzz]

Complete PC version down the road. I can wait.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Is 60fps consistent? Any of that motion blur crap in FF16?
Thats all I need to know

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah, but I also said that the cost of those 60 fps modes were too high. Horizon 2 was broken in performance mode for months. Literally months. A shimmering mess. Most people played in that shitty mode. Jedi didnt get that no-RT patch until september, like 5 months after launch. people were playing a 650p game that wasnt even a locked 60 fps constantly dropping to mid 40s. FF16 has the same drops to mid 40s and literally caps all combat scenarios at 720p to get a locked 60 fps. Spiderman 2 is the best of them all but even that runs at 1080p internally. But thats another game people say doesnt look next gen. I wonder why.

I have seen so many people dismiss games like Alan Wake 2, Avatar, Jedi, FF16 because they played the shitty versions. That was my reason for saying devs should stick with 30 fps modes because at least that way the players will see the game in its best light. Again, going back to my original post, Uncharted 4 was 30 fps, after they revealed the game as a 60 fps game. No one cared because we all saw that uncharted was no longer a corridor shooter. It had wide open areas, massive setpieces that went on forever, driveable vehicles etc etc. Back then we understood the cost of going open world for linear games.

I am sure the issues in the performance mode will eventually be fixed like they were by GG and Respawn. It will take months though and I dont think its sheer incompetence. GG is anything but. Respawn too. These games are just doing a lot of new things and a lot of times, offering a 60 fps mode means retooling the entire graphics pipeline which takes time they dont have.

Honestly i was shocked when i saw this graphic from DF because my CPU profiling was showing 70-80% usage on each thread.

This was not the case with any other cpu heavy game. Star Wars Jedi is exceptionally poor with threads just sitting there in the teens. hell, 99% of the games not named cyberpunk and starfield top out at like 15-20%.

Starfield like most bethesda games uses the CPU more than most games. yes, its probably not as optimized as it could be, but its one of those rare games where i could excuse it because of their usage.

P.S I should mention that the PS3's cell processor was a dedicated chip with its own cooling. the PS5 cpu is part of an APU that has to shares it thermal budget with the GPU. If devs push it too hard like they did with the cell processor or like they do with GPUs, the GPU might start to get throttled. my guess is thats probably why we dont see much multithreading. the more CPUs are running the hotter it might get. the PS360 CPUs didnt have to worry about that.

Starfield has no excuse for being a cpu hog when the levels are static as fuck with barely any destruction, mongoloid ia and the only way to show the psysics is using a fucking editor to spawn 100000 objects inside a room.
Zero gravity tech is not new since forever.

Come the fuck on, stop defending that ancient piece of shit with features that were in fucking oblivion or crysis1.

 

[KungFucius]

Pre-order canceled.

This is why they had a digital double version. First game + expansion free. No refunding that if you installed the first one.

Personally I don't care too much about performance. It is a JRPG. I am in for the story and hopefully a little more meaningful exploration than the last one.

 

[Dundar]

Is 60fps consistent? Any of that motion blur crap in FF16?
Thats all I need to know

Drops to 55 in some scenes. So inside VRR range, at least standing from the demo.
No motion blur at all on the camera.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Drops to 55 in some scenes. So inside VRR range, at least standing from the demo.
No motion blur at all on the camera.

Theres a VRR setting? When I used it for games like Ratchet and Clank, Horizon 2, the FPS was way higher. Will this be the case?

 

[mayham2199]

6:33. You didn't see this going on in your playthrough?

Nah I really don't. I'm not saying he's wrong it's just not a big deal to me. I'm not standing still staring off into the environment. I'm running around doing quest completing objectives. Probably why the game scored so well because people just want to play not over analyze this stuff.

 

[FUBARx89]

Theres a VRR setting? When I used it for games like Ratchet and Clank, Horizon 2, the FPS was way higher. Will this be the case?

No. Need 120hz activated aswell as VRR (Poster might be forcing VRR through PS5 settings as I dunno if Rebirth uses it).

I think it's kinda similar to LFC.

 

[Bojji]

No. Need 120fps activated aswell as VRR (Poster might be forcing VRR through PS5 settings as I dunno if Rebirth uses it).

I think it's kinda similar to LFC.

120Hz.

Every game can have this mode but this requires developers to give a fuck.

 

[FUBARx89]

120Hz.

Every game can have this mode but this requires developers to give a fuck.

Cheers. My bad.

Seems to really only be Sony first party studios doing it, which is annoying, at least on PS5, which is a shame cause I too use that on any game that allows it.

 

[Bojji]

Cheers. My bad.

Seems to really only be Sony first party studios doing it, which is annoying, at least on PS5, which is a shame cause I too use that on any game that allows it.

It's amazing! Every game that has 60fps mode renders higher frame rate most of the time but they are locked to 60, unlocking it with vrr in 120hz output produces amazing results and lowers input lag. Sony devs are leading here and most games have many display modes for everyone but 90% of developers don't give a fuck.

Sony is also to blame, console should be able to output 120hz automatically just like series x or pc. In the end we (players) are fucked and entirely on developers mercy. In the case of this game we have one bad option to play and another bad option to play it.

 

[ProtoByte]

This game might've benefitted from a 40fps mode.

Starfield has no excuse for being a cpu hog when the levels are static as fuck with barely any destruction, mongoloid ia and the only way to show the psysics is using a fucking editor to spawn 100000 objects inside a room.
Zero gravity tech is not new since forever.

Come the fuck on, stop defending that ancient piece of shit with features that were in fucking oblivion or crysis1.

The general lack of optimization is quite annoying. I hope diminishing returns forces devs to get back to that next gen.