Digital Foundry VS Bethesda: PS3 Skyrim is still shit

EternalGamer said:
I generally agree with you on the issue of consumer demand and companies having to answer to it. I guess where we differ is primarily that I think the onus is on the game writers and consumers to become informed about the badly designed product.

As I said, I think there are some people that, if they had this information ahead of time, this product would still be "ok" for. But then again I can also realize that this is because I have a different standard for what I consider "unplayable." I played a ton of games in the 32 bit era for example that had framerates below 20fps on ona regular basis. Hell, many of them that was the maximum framerate. I'm the guy that didn't really have a problem playing Enslaved while there was a ton of general bitching and moaning about it. I literally almost didn't recognize it because 20-25 fps doesn't bother me that much. I certainly don't consider it "unplayable."

In this case, it is certainly worse that than, but it's primarily in towns and primarily after fast traveling and even then only for some players, correct? I think it is a bit of hyperbole to call that "unplayable." For the consumer that has only a PS3, in fact, I think that might be a worthwhile trade off as long as they weren't decieved about it ahead of time.

Again, if they were, that is a problem.
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Jeez man, it's not hyperbole. The game is actually unplayable with a framerate in the single digits past a certain amount of play time for most, probably all players eventually. I don't think you actually know what the problem is and how bad it is, because if you did you would know it's not hyperbole at all.
 
astroturfing said:
what the hell has the bolded to do with anything??? Skyrim on PS3 would be amazing if it ran 20-25fps, but it doesn't, for many it's often in the single digits or even 0fps.

you can't equate the atrocious quality of Skyrim on PS3 to other perfectly playable ports. it makes uhmm, no sense.
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I wasn't really. I was pointing that out because people were literally saying Enslaved was nearly "unplayable" so my tolerance for that sort of thing is clearly higher.

I admit Mav's point about framerate mattering more or less depending on the game, though.
 
EternalGamer said:
A very good point.

Still, I think the onus is more on the game writers and consumers.
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That's crazy. No one is in a better position to know how the game runs than the company that made it.

cpp_is_king said:
The most surprising aspect of this whole fiasco is that even with Bethesda's track record, people are still surprised by this. How the fuck did anyone not see this coming? Also surprising is that the universal praise in reviews has almost universally completely overlooked this. What incentive does the company have to improve its products when it just gets 10s across the board?

Game is a shit sandwich right now, and should have review scores that reflect that.
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Reviews were universally (famitsu doesn't count) on the 360 version.
 
Am I the only one experiencing this on 360, as well? Not quite as bad as that video, but post-patch, I've hit a few points where the game becomes unplayable due to very similar stop-start insanity.
 
astroturfing said:
what the hell has the bolded to do with anything??? Skyrim on PS3 would be amazing if it ran 20-25fps, but it doesn't, for many it's often in the single digits or even 0fps.

you can't equate the atrocious quality of Skyrim on PS3 to other perfectly playable ports. it makes uhmm, no sense.
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he admits that his subjective barrel-scraping standards are well below average, then states that skyrim on ps3 is below even those standards, then goes on to state that anything to the contrary is objective hyperbole.

delicious cognitive dissonance in full effect.

if a game is below my standards, it is below the standard at which i would even want to play it; by definition, unplayable. which rules me out of playing vast majority of the ps3 library. i only wish there was noise like this being made at the beginning of the generation, as soon as devs starting seeing respectable framerates on "next-gen" consoles as some mythical ideal.
 
Whats worse is all those high scores for the PS3 version that never mentioned any issues, I'm guessing they never played the game long enough to see this issue or they saw the issue but were persuaded to give high scores and dismiss the problem.

Reviews have been a joke this gen when broken games can score 10's
 
ghst said:
but still, i can't help but feel that TheSeks would agree with me.

thanks for bringing back post history.
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On the Subject of post history:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32260677&postcount=92

me said:
Buying an Elder Scrolls game at launch, for a platform that can't be modded (i.e. fixed) isn't something anyone should be recommending really. If you must get the console release then at least wait for the GOTY (i.e. the mostly fixed) version.
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And I got shit for saying that.
 
Hellsing321 said:
Never buy a Bethesda game until at least 6 months out. Hell wait for the GOTY edition if you can. Only frustration can come from playing the bug filled mess they always end up being. This applies to all platforms.
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90 hours into the PC version with no problems, this is unfortunate for PS3 buyers though.
 
catashtrophe said:
Whats worse is all those high scores for the PS3 version that never mentioned any issues, I'm guessing they never played the game long enough to see this issue or they saw the issue but were persuaded to give high scores and dismiss the problem.

Reviews have been a joke this gen when broken games can score 10's
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http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim

Only one PS3 review below a 9. It's from OPMUK and the review was posted on November 29th
 
The only bugs I've ran into on the 360 version is that annoying unkillable, backwards flying dragon once.

Also, fell through the map a couple times, but it brings you right back to where you fell from.

Really, really unfortunate for PS3 owners. I'm crossing the 50 hour mark now on my playthrough, the game runs very well.

My GOTY by miles.
 
catashtrophe said:
Whats worse is all those high scores for the PS3 version that never mentioned any issues, I'm guessing they never played the game long enough to see this issue or they saw the issue but were persuaded to give high scores and dismiss the problem.

Reviews have been a joke this gen when broken games can score 10's
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Most didn't play it full stop. They reviewed the 360 version and copied the text.
 
Fool me once, shame on you, you won't fool me a second time Bethesda.

They were smart, why mention the issue when it doesn't appear until 30+ hours into the game? I own a PS3 and a 360 and during pre-release in the OT, there were people championing the PS3 version as being perfect, and it was for its first couple hours. No way to know about the frame rate issues pre-release. The 360 though had those texture streaming issues, so it seemed like an easy choice to get the PS3 version right?

Thank god I happen to know the guy who works at my local EBGames and he let me do a straight exchange for my PS3 copy to a 360 copy. Never buying a Bethesda release on PS3 ever again.
 
mavs said:
That's crazy. No one is in a better position to know how the game runs than the company that made it.
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The fact is that PS3 players had no idea to know about this unless actually getting that far in and experiencing it for themselves. It's not mentioned in reviews, not reflected in scores, nothing. Also you'd think that the developers would know how bad it gets, I mean don't they playtest these things? They're the fucking developers. They need to be held responsible for this and they need to issue out an okay to retailers saying that if a customer tries to return the PS3 version because they can't fucking play it, to give them a full refund.

This may sound over the top and I tend to avoid making drama queen type posts, but I am pretty fucking disgruntled about it. It's true that I did know that the PS3 version wasn't quite up to snuff, but that the game was still playable. This video proves otherwise. So yeah I'm kind of upset that I paid the money for this game when I could have gotten something like Rayman Origins which is supposedly fantastic and is a game that you can actually play.
 
KorrZ said:
Thank god I happen to know the guy who works at my local EBGames and he let me do a straight exchange for my PS3 copy to a 360 copy. Never buying a Bethesda release on PS3 ever again.
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I know some of the guys at my Gamestop very very well, I wonder if they would let me trade it for something for equal value. It's worth a shot at the least.
 
cpp_is_king said:
The most surprising aspect of this whole fiasco is that even with Bethesda's track record, people are still surprised by this. How the fuck did anyone not see this coming? Also surprising is that the universal praise in reviews has almost universally completely overlooked this. What incentive does the company have to improve its products when it just gets 10s across the board?
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Actually, this part is not very surprising at all. Beth has a history of jank, and a history of free passes and critical acclaim.

And even with their history (I expressed concern in the OT a few day before release that they had still not shown the PS3 version) not many expected things to be this bad.
 
cpp_is_king said:
The most surprising aspect of this whole fiasco is that even with Bethesda's track record, people are still surprised by this. How the fuck did anyone not see this coming?
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i absolutely expected the ps3 version to be the weaker console version and i'm fine with that. what i didn't expect was an unplayable game. oblivion and fallout had their issues on ps3, but they weren't broken. not sure how i could have anticipated that, and i am surprised and pretty unhappy about it.
 
Kinda funny that the same game can legitimately appear on GOTY lists (PC version) and worst game of the year lists (PS3 version). :p
 
Where has Bethesda PR man Nick Breckon gone off to anyways? I actually like him because of Idle Thumbs but that feeling is slowly eroding because of this issue, even if he personally can't do anything to fix it.
 
hamchan said:
Where has Bethesda PR man Nick Breckon gone off to anyways? I actually like him because of Idle Thumbs but that feeling is slowly eroding because of this issue, even if he personally can't do anything to fix it.
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Todd Howard should be here and apologize for the shitty version his company put out. He is a Gaffer and you can bet that he reads all of this.
 
I've only played about 15hrs, but I've already had to had reset my PS3 5 times because of freezing. One time it took 10 minutes just to get to the save screen. This shit is really really unprofessional. I paid too much money for a broken game.
 
sweet. Just called Gamestop and they agreed to give me store credit for it (not trade in credit, full credit). fuck yeah. oh Bethesda, get your shit sorted out, thanks.
 
EternalGamer said:
So even if the issue was a just a matter of having to reboot your system you would see it as "completely unacceptable"?

Comparing getting sick and vomiting with getting a crappy framerate and rebooting a console is a little absurd, don't you think?
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Yes absolutely? Why should I have to do out of the ordinary for my game to properly work?

Also this problem is not some obscure thing. I am nowhere near 60 hours of playtime and I have experienced it.
 
ghst said:
he admits that his subjective barrel-scraping standards are well below average, then states that skyrim on ps3 is below even those standards, then goes on to state that anything to the contrary is objective hyperbole.

delicious cognitive dissonance in full effect.

if a game is below my standards, it is below the standard at which i would even want to play it; by definition, unplayable. which rules me out of playing vast majority of the ps3 library. i only wish there was noise like this being made at the beginning of the generation, as soon as devs starting seeing respectable framerates on "next-gen" consoles as some mythical ideal.
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Actually you completely reversed my thought process in an attempt at character assassination.

I said that the calls for the devs head and calling the game "unplayable" seem perhaps hyperbole, then later I said that I admit that my attitudes tolerance regarding framerate are admittedly higher than many others. The order that you put things in makes a pretty big difference if you are trying to psychoanalyze my thought process.

At any rate, it is pretty clear we just have different definitions of what the phrase "unplayble means." To me that phrase does not mean "I do not want to play this." I means I literally "I can't play this because it breaks or is impossible to progress."
 
Bitmap Frogs said:
Wanna see something fun?

The people at Bethesda's own forums have compiled a buglist. I intended to paste it here but alas, I can't because the buglist is over 120k characters long and the forum only supports up to 24k characters per post, but you can check it out there:

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1297205-unofficial-buglist/

Now, tell me Bethesda's QA didn't catch these.
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haha, oh wow.

I checked, and all my quest-breaking bugs are already mentioned. Good job, community.

Zzoram said:
Game "journalism" lol

Skyrim is going to get GOTY despite this
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I see no problem with the PC version of Skyrim getting GOTY.
 
EternalGamer said:
At any rate, it is pretty clear we just have different definitions of what the phrase "unplayble means." To me that phrase does not mean "I do not want to play this." I means I literally "I can't play this because it breaks or is impossible to progress."
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Don't worry, Skyrim has those, too!
 
mavs said:
That's crazy. No one is in a better position to know how the game runs than the company that made it.



Reviews were universally (famitsu doesn't count) on the 360 version.
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True on both accounts. And if the devs went out of their way to conceal the game's performance, then they very, very much deserve harsh criticism. But there is a difference between trying to conceal it and openly displaying it. I'm not sure they have an obligation to show videos of the worse case scenario performance issues, which is essentially what this video is doing.

I think it is up to game writers to do that. In this case, it does seem like they failed with their PS3 reviews. At the very least, it shows a failure of the "universal review" where they review it on one console and then (falsely) assume it to be the same experience on the others.
 
Kos Luftar said:
This happens as long as you played 65 hours or more? It doesn't matter how far along in the game you are?

I'm 30 hours in but yet to even finish a main quest line.

Recently got the "dragon-flying-backwards" glitch...is this a sign that the game will start to become unplayable?
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Check your game box. If it says "Playstation 3" across the top then this is your sign that the game will become unplayable.
 
Haunted said:
Don't worry, Skyrim has those, too!
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And a game that consistently has that is one that I would say consumers would absolutely have a right to demand a refund.

A game you don't want to play because of performance problems is one thing. A game that you literally can't progress in because of them is an entirely different issue.
 
I feel bad for the guy ahead of me on release day... who bought that gigantic collector's edition and the huge strategy guide.

Man, Beth really shook him down....
 
Bitmap Frogs said:
Wanna see something fun?

The people at Bethesda's own forums have compiled a buglist. I intended to paste it here but alas, I can't because the buglist is over 120k characters long and the forum only supports up to 24k characters per post, but you can check it out there:

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1297205-unofficial-buglist/

Now, tell me Bethesda's QA didn't catch these.
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unbelievable ..... 60 fucking € for that.

and yet we have eternalgamer accusing gamers to be spoiled brat if they complaint.
 
EternalGamer said:
And a game that consistently has that is one that I would say consumers would absolutely have a right to demand a refund.

A game you don't want to play because of performance problems is one thing. A game that you literally can't progress in because of them is an entirely different issue.
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I think "virtually unplayable" is closer to the truth than "performance problems". Broken is also another word I see thrown around, and it's hard to deny that moniker, too.

Well, when in doubt, I tend to go with the consumer's rights instead of protecting the companies (whether retailers or publisher).
 
I wanted Skyrim for Christmas but it looks like that's not going to happen. PS3 only gamer here. I never trust Bethesda dating back to my PC gaming days. How a company that consistently releases such buggy messes gets so much praise is beyond me. I blame Sony too for letting it get by just to meet the holiday release window. I was listening to the official PS blogcast and heard no mention of the game's problems. Just high praise. :/
 
EternalGamer said:
Actually you completely reversed my thought process in an attempt at character assassination.

I said that the calls for the devs head and calling the game "unplayable" seem perhaps hyperbole, then later I said that I admit that my attitudes tolerance regarding framerate are admittedly higher than many others. The order that you put things in makes a pretty big difference if you are trying to psychoanalyze my thought process.

At any rate, it is pretty clear we just have different definitions of what the phrase "unplayble means." To me that phrase does not mean "I do not want to play this." I means I literally "I can't play this because it breaks or is impossible to progress."
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is this supposed to be read backwards too?

your psychotic definition of "unplayable" is completely useless to anyone who wants anything approximating an enjoyable experience. if you went to a new movie screening whereby they screened a 240p 4:3 cut off the film ripped off of youtube, and upon asking for a refund they pointed to the clause that stated the film must be in "an unwatchable state", you'd throw one in their ingenuous yaw and collect the $10 yourself.
 
Haunted said:
I think "virtually unplayable" is closer to the truth than "performance problems". Broken is also another word I see thrown around, and it's hard to deny that moniker, too.

Well, when in doubt, I tend to go with the consumer's rights instead of protecting the companies (whether retailers or publisher).
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Nah man fuck the consumers that bought a 60+ dollar game and expected it to work as it was marketed. They shouldn't be allowed to complain.
 
Trick_GSF said:
I'm on PS3. Been playing 130+ hours and it's working fine.
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There's clearly a real problem here but the frustrating part is that it's not clear what configuration of the hardware/firmware its affecting or if that even matters at all. It's not happening to everyone but is the people it's happening to a vocal minority or the majority. I guarantee you if I couldn't play skyrim, I'd set something on fire... maybe not but I'd make sure everyone heard about it. So of course the news will be overwhelmingly negative. I doubt that Digital Foundry performed witchcraft to produce the footage so it's clear that it can happen fairly easily but I wish I knew the real cause. I can't simply just jump on "it Gamebryo" bandwagon because it tells you nothing but I doubt Bethesda (or even Sony) would ever share the cause with the public.
 
damn...ok so i REEEEAAALLLYYY want to purchase this game but i have a feeling that this issue will never get fixed. what do you think GAF?
 
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