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Dishonored |OT| The belle of the ball

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
(very late game spoilers, do NOT read unless you finished)

I wish they would have given a full mission to each of the 3 betrayers. Would it have been a little corny story wise and just a reason to extend the game's length further? Yes. But would anyone have complained if we got 2 extra missions designed like the first few to get rid of Pendleton and Martin and then go on to the current last mission? I doubt it.

They would have to make 6 missions then, since the circumstances in which you encounter the three at the end depend on your chaos. If you finish high chaos, you get to take each of them separately.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I saw a rune in a room behind a doorway blocked by a few chairs, used windblast and nothing happened. Laaaame.
 

Tess3ract

Banned
Does Confidence Man actually like that or does he just like it when it's compared to 2 and 3? Because 1 is pretty streamlined and mainstreamed for previous wrpg standards, it's just 2 and 3 made it soooo much worse.
2 and 3 ruined Mass Effect.

I wanted an RPG not another fucking shoulder shooter.
 

Juice

Member
Finished it today. Still not sure how I feel about the game overall.

I enjoyed it for the most part, but it didn't really grab me.

The whole time I kept being distracted by how the game felt like an awkward remix of a bunch of other trendy games.

Oh, and did anyone else get a strong Timesplitters 2 vibe from the character models? A little too silly for me, especially given how dark the game is.
 

Riposte

Member
You can look at Dishonored as a game about taking many keys and opening many locks, much like Deus Ex or Hitman. However it is also a game which immediately gives you a magic key that opens every one those locks. There should have been no free spells, not blink or god-vision. Blink itself obliterates more than half of the game's level design (Dark Vision will clean up whatever is left). I'm going to take a hard stance and say they didn't properly design around it. Like... if you took Human Revolution and added blink to it, it would feel just about as overpowered as it does in Dishonored. One way to look at it is that the game is very vertical, but enemies and most obstacles are horizontally inclined and work very poorly against vertical combat or stealth. Solutions using Agility (lol), Possession, and so on become marginal alternate paths branching off the shorter straight line.

I also think exploration is too guided (the heart lol. Everything is gold, this feels like Twilight Princess), the game lacks any sort of punishment (alarms are lol), and combat is quite easily solved (though I like it enough. The gun feels surprisingly good to shoot). There are too few powers, a few powers are really lame, mana is too plentiful (and unnecessary in some cases), and, maybe one of the game's biggest failings, it fails to garner any sort of specialization (not in powers, not in upgrades, and ultimately not in tactics). Bone charms don't do a good enough job to elevate that last problem. Saves are done terribly and the game practically begs you to spam quicksave (literally, on a loading screen) This game takes on a stylish painted look, but it spends most of its time wanting to look like Fallout 3. Character models are unappealing to me for the most part, errs too much on the side of cartoony to me (mainly with the hands and limbs).

This is kind of a bigger thing, but: I really wish stealth games didn't just make lethal and non-lethal approaches mostly the same. "Ghosting" it would have been quite interesting if it had virtually no non-lethal options. Blink would certainly make up for it. That being said, as the game is now, it is only duller by taking on challenges like no kills or pure stealth.

Funny enough, I kind of like the story. Less controversially, I like the setting too (if they make another one, a pirate game would make sense). Voice acting is particularly weak though. Music pretty much sucks across the board. There is like one tune that I'm going to bother recall and it plays on cue every time you dock, which deflates it after the first few times.

I don't hate the game, but I'm probably going to be spending more time beating it up since its being received as the bee's knees. If nothing else was interesting to you this year, then I would even recommend it for its good moments and maybe fantasize about its failed potential.

Anyway, with an extremely friendly UI (which I assume people turn off), mostly simplistic sidequests (the non-lethal solutions feel like pushing a button and making something that couldn't fit naturally in the game's environment happen), blink, dark vision, very forgiving alert status, and no instance of fail states upon discovery (even Assassin's Creed had these)... maybe you can see why I would say it is the most accessible stealth game I've played. Mind you, I'm not saying it is bad because it is accessible, but that is where its flaws led it.

It is funny because I was planning to just plop this somewhere in my top 10 for 2013, but it might not even make it in as a runner-up. After being told that this year sucked so many times, I was somewhat starting to believe it, but right now the list I'm gathering is quite cutthroat. I could do a top 18 at this point and I'm similarly expecting Xcom, Far Cry 3, and Hitman Absolution to be a threat (and I would hope so or my list is going to have a poor ratio of western games).

EDIT: The fact this game doesn't have throwing knives is a damn shame. I would use bend time II constantly.
 

branny

Member
Okay, I just finished with low chaos. I think the game is lovely when it's at its best, but I feel like a lot of things are criminally undercooked. I wanted more, especially out of the last couple of missions. The ending I got was functional but a bit anti-climactic.

I also would've loved if missions were a little more independent when it came to replaying them. Just being a timeline of sorts for you to go back to (and needing to redo the rest beyond it for a particular run) is kind of limiting.

edit: ^Bend Time II is fabulousss
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Finished it today. Still not sure how I feel about the game overall.

I enjoyed it for the most part, but it didn't really grab me.

The whole time I kept being distracted by how the game felt like an awkward remix of a bunch of other trendy games.

Oh, and did anyone else get a strong Timesplitters 2 vibe from the character models? A little too silly for me, especially given how dark the game is.

I'm terribly curious to find out what constitutes a "trendy" game.
 

Zeliard

Member
I don't hate the game, but I'm probably going to be spending more time beating it up since its being received as the bee's knees.

So dumb. Criticize it for what you feel deserves to be criticized, not in some reactionary fashion to others who enjoy the game.
 

GorillaJu

Member
How does the flooded district feel out of place? It perfectly fits into its place in the story IMO. It's hard to pick which part of the game is my favorite but its a great view into the parts of Dunwall that were really hit hard. If all you saw were the areas in the first two or three missions you'd never get a feelin for just how serious the plague is.

The only "eh" level to me is
the last one
and that's because it's so short. If I were to put a list together of my top 5 level designs of the generation I think all 5 would come from Dishonored. :p
 

Eusis

Member
2 and 3 ruined Mass Effect.

I wanted an RPG not another fucking shoulder shooter.
While I enjoyed them it IS kind of funny to me how my opinions on WRPGs versus JRPGs bounced around some in the last few years. But then JRPGs were getting overly cinematic for awhile before largely moving to handhelds and having that throttled some with FFXIII seemingly being the wake up call on excessive linearity, whereas the western game industry on a whole seems to going into wild extremes and losing all sight of the middle ground. Little wonder something like Dishonored blew me away and completely absorbed me.
 
You seem to be misinterpreting it. When you have to argue someone thing isn't great, then you are going to spend a lot of time trashing it.

Why would you even bother at that point? So what if someone thinks its great, why would you need to deconstruct and try to convince them otherwise?
 
So dumb. Criticize it for what you feel deserves to be criticized, not in some reactionary fashion to others who enjoy the game.

Hater: A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.

But really, in all honesty, dig or boo at whatever accurate personal disinterests that strike whomever as... hm... distasteful. To have a clear understanding of a clients sociological and simulacra starved mind as fun, we need too dig deeper, and really find what the source of our true unhappiness is and then nip it in the bud.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Flooded District is one of the longer, more open levels since the very first, with excellent vertical level design in a really interest and great looking settings. It's also the first proper time in the game where
you're on an assassination mission with no real guidance or set objective
.

The only negative I have against it is
the bland linear sewer stretch at the end
, but that makes up such a small percentage of an otherwise phenomenal level that I don't really mind.

Only scrubs dislike the Flooded District. Fact.

This game takes on a stylish painted look, but it spends most of its time wanting to look like Fallout 3.

Of all the people I've spoken to about this game, and all the comments I've read, here and elsewhere, you are literally the very first person to draw any comparison between Dishonored's art direction and Fallout 3. It looks nothing, nothing like Fallout 3 or like it's trying to look like Fallout 3, and instead could be mistaken for impressionist Half-Life 2. If you really feel it looks that way, okay I guess, but I'm baffled how you drew those comparisons.
 

Sibylus

Banned
first-person platforming is never a good example of anything, especially when you have no body awareness
Exactamundo.
Feh, nothing a little practice doesn't solve. The fear of falling in that level is just so strong, love balancing that against the swooping gunship and the rattling of the razor train as it passes overhead. But I'll leave you gentlemen to your uncompromising hate >:|
 

vazel

Banned
"It spends most of its time wanting to look like Fallout 3"

.....okay, guy.
Looks like he hasn't played a certain popular PC game. And even then only some parts of Dishonored look similar.

And yes, the superpowers are overpowered. But you can ignore them like I did for much of my playthrough. But also don't be afraid to indulge in them, how many stealth games have fun powers like this one has?
 

GorillaJu

Member
You seem to be misinterpreting it. When you have to argue someone thing isn't great, then you are going to spend a lot of time trashing it.



Oppressively bleak series of buildings in disrepair.

Indeed Fallout 3 was the first game to ever have a dark atmosphere and it should have been the last.
 

Zeliard

Member
Don't argue that something isn't as great or as bad as others think it is. Just opine on how you personally feel about it regardless of its reception. Contrarian anti-hype isn't any better than excessive hype. It just comes across as petty and with an axe to grind.

Be like EatChildren. That dude will read Mass Effect novels - Mass Effect novels! - and he gives 0 fucks what anyone thinks of them ;)
 

Riposte

Member
Indeed Fallout 3 was the first game to ever have a dark atmosphere and it should have been the last.

To be clear, I'm not being literal (duh). The game has a painted look, but you spend most of your time in garbage and all too familiar ruins. That is offset by some the fancier locations you go to perform assassinations at.
 
Why do you think I want to convince people otherwise?

If not then why would you be arguing in the first place? The only reason you even made that big long post was to express your thoughts contrary to other's feelings and thoughts in this thread. Going as far as trashing a lot of what others have found cool about this time (Powers, atmosphere, etc). Why would you make that post in an otherwise positive thread if not to bait an argument from someone who feels differently?
 
Looks like he hasn't played a certain popular PC game. And even then only some parts of Dishonored look similar.

And yes, the superpowers are overpowered. But you can ignore them like I did for much of my playthrough. But also don't be afraid to indulge in them, how many stealth games have fun powers like this one has?

I'm letting the magic flow through my veins. The sandbox that Arkane has developed is too broad and useful to not use. I hate trial and error, magic fixes this.

Though, I am for sure going back through on a purist blink only very hard fox only on Final Destination run.
I think I can

If not then why would you be arguing in the first place? The only reason you even made th Why would you make that post in an otherwise positive thread if not to bait an argument from someone who feels differently?
No one likes to be alone in their feelings.
 

Riposte

Member
If not then why would you be arguing in the first place? The only reason you even made that big long post was to express your thoughts contrary to other's feelings and thoughts in this thread. Going as far as trashing a lot of what others have found cool about this time (Powers, atmosphere, etc). Why would you make that post in an otherwise positive thread if not to bait an argument from someone who feels differently?

I'm strongly opposed to the idea that OTs are only for people who love the game. Since I'm not being rude, I see no reason for the offense.

I do want an argument, but there is more to arguing than to convincing the other side (which is a rare occurrence, to say the least). If people don't want their ideas challenged like I want mine, then they are free to ignore me like they could any post in this thread. Frankly, it is unfortunate that this had to be a conversation in the first place. Too much dancing around the core of my critique.
 

Zeliard

Member
If not then why would you be arguing in the first place? The only reason you even made that big long post was to express your thoughts contrary to other's feelings and thoughts in this thread. Going as far as trashing a lot of what others have found cool about this time (Powers, atmosphere, etc). Why would you make that post in an otherwise positive thread if not to bait an argument from someone who feels differently?

He can think the powers are terrible or whatever. Ain't no problem with that.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a lengthy post trashing a game. Where it gets silly is if you're dogging it to that extent solely because of its reception. The game itself has nothing to do with those sorts of outside elements.
 
I'm strongly opposed to the idea that OTs are only for people who love the game. Since I'm not being rude, I see no reason for the offense.

I do want an argument, but there is more to arguing than to convincing the other side (which is a rare occurrence, to say the least). If people don't want their ideas challenged like I want mine, then they are free to ignore me like they could any post in this thread. Frankly, it is unfortunate that this had to be a conversation in the first place. Too much dancing around the core of my critique.

You essentially said you were going to "beat up" more on the game because other people like it a lot. How you expect your critique to be taken seriously after that is beyond my comprehension.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Circle jerk OPs suck so bad they might as well be closed. Opinions for all!
 

Eusis

Member
Only scrubs dislike the Flooded District. Fact.
I think a lot of the dislike is because it's basically the equivalent to Bioshock
post-Andrew Ryan
: we had some significant plot closure, and now gameplay is the bigger motivator. Although in this case I think that since the gameplay's more compelling (whether it IS stronger or if it's just because it's even more refreshing in ways than Bioshock was in 2007), and arguably it's more because the start can be seen as kind of irritating given that you
basically have to run past weepers to get to the zone your equipment's at. Really annoying for a no kill run, nevermind trying to ghost it
. I don't think it left the best impression on me due to trying to get it over with at that point, but in hindsight it really IS a striking, well designed part of the game.

Although, one of things I like most about Flooded District is the biggest change that happens with low and high chaos:
on low chaos at the end you come across a small settlement of friendly people, admittedly likely plague infected. In high chaos they're ALL weepers and as such you're probably going to gun them down unless you were trying for a "just barely" high chaos run, and even then if you were being passive through the stage this is the one point you're most likely going to want to go all out. Those kinds of moments end up the most horrifying to me, when friendly people or entire groups are zombies/monsters/just dead when you return, doubly worse here because it IS your fault, albeit indirectly.
 

Riposte

Member
You essentially said you were going to "beat up" more on the game because other people like it a lot. How you expect your critique to be taken seriously after that is beyond my comprehension.

I don't understand why this is such an odd concept. If I'm calling a game 3/5 and I'm talking to people who call it a 5/5, then the best way to explain my position is to speak on why the game is mediocre, which in this case means why it is flawed. Just because I have a negative bent isn't a very good excuse to ignore my points. It is not like I would suddenly think Blink was balanced if everyone thought it wasn't, I simply wouldn't have to say it with much detail because it would be redundant in the larger conversation. The game is okay though, which makes me clarify I don't completely hate it despite having to list what is wrong with it.
 

Zeliard

Member
Times like this I miss Amir0x's epic hate rants. Those are actually constructive. It's a shame he seems to like this game, it would've been fun to see it here.
 
On my second playthrough trying for no kill, completely unnoticed, and blink only.
It wasn't too bad until I got to the Flooded District. I'm still no kill and using Blink only but I've somehow been noticed by someone and I've tried replaying the level several times with the same result.

In playing this way some frustrating things that have been brought to the forefront. The FOV of the AI is unpredictable and I've been seen in bushes by the tallboys when I thought I was completely concealed. The audio is simply shit. I can't stand to be able to hear EVERY AI on every floor of a 3-4 story building. For a game about stealth the devs need to do a better job separating sounds for the player to communicate enemy positions better.The collision/hit detection could be a little more forgiving. All too often I've come up behind unsuspecting guards and thought I was going to choke them out only to have them turn around and notice me.

To be fair I'm probably playing in a manner not originally intended by the devs(I'm going after 6 achievements in one playthrough). Leave it to me to find the most unfun way to play. :p
 

Trickster

Member
Am I the only one that feels like the blink ability is way to good. That ability pretty much singel handedly made the game a total cake walk on hard or whatever they call the difficulty one tier harder than standard.

Think the game would have been better without that ability.
 

Eusis

Member
Am I the only one that feels like the blink ability is way to good. That ability pretty much singel handedly made the game a total cake walk on hard or whatever they call the difficulty one tier harder than standard.

Think the game would have been better without that ability.
I actually held back until the very end upgrading it. It still was ridiculously useful, but I had to depend more on double jump tricking than just teleporting wherever I felt.
 

Riposte

Member
Am I the only one that feels like the blink ability is way to good. That ability pretty much singel handedly made the game a total cake walk on hard or whatever they call the difficulty one tier harder than standard.

Think the game would have been better without that ability.

I agree with you (wrote a big post above). I wish they at least didn't make it free.
 
Someone tell me I see a whale or at least its bones at some point in this game. Can't believe I haven't seen one yet considering how vital they are to this world. The one representation I have seen in a statue makes them look pretty cool.
 

Salsa

Member
I'll take the satisfaction, fun, fluidity and possibilities of using Blink over the added challenge that would mean not having it any day of the week

then again, that's just me. Opinions.
 
Am I the only one that feels like the blink ability is way to good. That ability pretty much singel handedly made the game a total cake walk on hard or whatever they call the difficulty one tier harder than standard.

Think the game would have been better without that ability.

What? You crazy. Without blink this would be the blandest stealth game ever made. It's inclusion is the only reason it's worth playing.
 

Trickster

Member
Someone tell me I see a whale or at least its bones at some point in this game. Can't believe I haven't seen one yet considering how vital they are to this world. The one representation I have seen in a statue makes them look pretty cool.

you do see one

What? You crazy. Without blink this would be the blandest stealth game ever made. It's inclusion is the only reason it's worth playing.

I really, really enjoyed it at the beginning of the game. Because yes, it is an incredibly satisfying ability to use. But as the game progressed, it became clearer and clearer just how easy the ability made the game. And I'm really not someone that think playing a game on what feels like easy is fun.
 

Eusis

Member
Game is easy regardless of Blink.

Blink just makes it more fun to move around and devise some inventive kills.
Yeah, I'm honestly amazed at how relatively unchallenging Very Hard is. Maybe it's because you can save whenever, but I thought I'd have way more trouble rather than it just meaning I can't be too reckless with being seen and attacking.
 

Riposte

Member
Game is easy regardless of Blink.

Blink just makes it more fun to move around and devise some inventive kills.

It is more than a matter of difficulty. Blink basically makes dealing with intricacies in the level design (the game's main asset) optional and redundant. Even if you are not challenged by a game, you can still appreciate seeing level design and adapting to it (this is usually where the fun from powers / skills / etc comes from). It simplifies the game and if you think about it it shouldn't be a big surprise. It cuts out movement and all the risks associated with movement. What is a stealth game without risky moves?
 

Zeliard

Member
I'll take the satisfaction, fun and possibilities of using Blink over the added challenge that would mean not having it any day of the week

then again, that's just me. Opinions.

I'm with you on this. There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with power combinations and Blink adds some spice to level traversal.
 

hteng

Banned
i think this is the first time a blink/quick teleport mechanic has ever been done so well in a stealth game. It also sets the game apart from other stealth games, doesn't matter if it makes the game easier or hard, it makes the game fun to explore.
 

beastmode

Member
Every mission in this game has ruined my choices with some busted nonsense. :(

So far:

Heart tells me Wallace is a spy but I'm not allowed to do anything about it.

Didn't see the lever beside Martin so I searched the surrounding area for it. Eventually I just forgot about him and moved on. Later Curnow and Campbell won't exit the unopenable door because it turns out you need to save Martin beforehand to trigger the scripting. Would it be so hard to just get Samuel to tell me "we can't leave without the both of you" after the assassination? To make it sting a little more, Martin hasn't been needed for anything important in the story so far.

Didn't touch Geoff Curnow but Callista says he never made it back. Huh.

Save a lady from two guards and get a key I don't need. Save her from four weepers and I don't even get a thanks.

Slackjaw wants me to go investigate Dr. Galvani. I go in and get an audiograph off his dead henchman. When I get back everyone is still friendly except Slackjaw himself. Mission is gone. ???

The searchlights on the bridge level. I tried finding a way to shut down a couple I saw at the start but no dice. At the end of the level I have Sokolov but there is no boat. In desperation I turn on waypoints - I have to go back through half the bridge. Even though there are no guards alive anywhere. And these lights don't appear elsewhere in the game (so far.)

Spent a few mins on the main floor of the Boyl mansion but I had to F9 after I messed something up. I remember a guy wanting to talk to me (maybe for a sidequest or non-lethal assassination method?) 2.2 hrs later I've cleared the rest of the place of guards and valuables stealthily. When I go downstairs (even through the front door) the guards are hostile to me. Not the ones outside, though. ?
 
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