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[Sanctuary]

Does Confidence Man actually like that or does he just like it when it's compared to 2 and 3? Because 1 is pretty streamlined and mainstreamed for previous wrpg standards, it's just 2 and 3 made it soooo much worse.

Both of the first two Mass Effect games were probably my favorite two "console" games of the current generation. It always boggles my mind how so many people talk about the second with such loathing when it did so many things better than the first. At least in terms of gameplay and a realization of the ME universe. You could argue that it became more action oriented and less RPG, and that's a fair assessment, but it was still a shooter/RPG hybrid. The first game was as well, but had awful gameplay for so many reasons and was also not challenging in the least. Sure, biotics were pretty damn fun (which were mostly ruined in the second game unless you count Charge), but the actual shooting/cover aspects were pretty lame all around, and the best way to bother with guns was to use either a Soldier or Infiltrator who used both Marksman with a pistol (LOL) and Immunity every time it was up for a fight. I'm not even really a TPS/FPS fan at all either, but if you're going to implement the mechanics, don't do it so half-assed.

Three on the other hand turned out exactly as I assumed it would and I never want to play it again. Something about it just felt so very off the entire time. I also hated everyone on the squad but Garrus. Bioware literally took the cream of the crap from the two games before it due to fan requests and also added a dudebro ape on top of it. Well, I guess Javik was okay, but I often didn't have room for him due to his powers.

 

[Aaron]

There's a lot of little broken bits. I figured out the combination to a safe just by trying a few things. Then I find out Slackjaw wants that combo. Do I even get the option to tell him the code of a safe I've already opened? Of course not. I've got to sneak back into the whorehouse to torture a guy for a combo I don't need, for a safe that's already open.

 

[Riposte]

The heart doesn't actually provide you any useful information and it is not like you should act on it.

In your case, what you got was a generic message drawn from the pool of "aristocrat", despite the character being named. If you kept on using it on that one NPC you'll get them all, then when you meet some random noble while out on a mission, you'll get those same messages.

There are unique pools for unique characters, but it is kind of a stretch to call that stuff relevant.

I remember someone saying they were going to execute people they meet judging by secrets told to them by the heart. Knowing how it works, that is hilariously unfair.

EDIT: I'm disappointed with the implementation of this potentially awesome mechanic, to say the least.

 

[Eusis]

What is a stealth game without risky moves?

A super hero simulator. Though even Batman was trickier, but then he doesn't actually have superhuman abilities like Corvo does.

 

[Zeliard]

It is more than a matter of difficulty. Blink basically makes dealing with intricacies in the level design (the game's main asset) optional and redundant. Even if you are not challenged by a game, you can still appreciate seeing level design and adapting to it (this is usually where the fun from powers / skills / etc comes from). It simplifies the game and if you think about it it shouldn't be a big surprise. It cuts out movement and all the risks associated with movement. What is a stealth game without risky moves?

The levels are basically built with the assumption that the player will use Blink, while also largely making it feasible to traverse the old-fashioned way. I use a mix of Blink and platforming to get around and it feels smooth, and I don't feel like the level design's been compromised.

I've found Blink to add more freedom and variety than anything else. Opinions will probably differ here but I also view Dishonored less a straight stealth game, personally, and more a sandbox. And Blink is just another tool in that sandbox.

I basically go stealth if I'm in the mood to, but I don't feel restricted to it. It's not a game I really play for the game-over challenge but rather the challenge of finding various ways to take out enemies as I soak in the atmosphere in a cool setting.

I'll eventually try a non-lethal stealth playthrough but the challenge there will come in attempting to speed run it. You can launch a solid criticism at the game for essentially making the player create their own challenges, but I think that's how these games typically always are. I'm accustomed to trying to be as creative as possible with games that offer that possibility, so I'm naturally inclined to dig this sort of game.

 

[adamsapple]

Every mission in this game has ruined my choices with some busted nonsense.

So far:

Spoiler

Didn't touch Geoff Curnow but Callista says he never made it back. Huh.

Save a lady from two guards and get a key I don't need. Save her from four weepers and I don't even get a thanks.

For these two things ...

1/

Spoiler

you need to dump him into a safe dumpster that pops up on your HUD if you knock him out, or if circumstances prevail you just need to make sure he runs out of the building and doesn't get killed by any guards in the court yard accidentally

2/

Spoiler

saving people gives a bonus to chaos reduction over the usual not killing-thing, so its worth it if you're doing a low chaos run

 

[TheOddOne]

Flooded District is one of the longer, more open levels since the very first, with excellent vertical level design in a really interest and great looking settings. It's also the first proper time in the game where

Spoiler

you're on an assassination mission with no real guidance or set objective

.

The only negative I have against it is

Spoiler

the bland linear sewer stretch at the end

, but that makes up such a small percentage of an otherwise phenomenal level that I don't really mind.

Only scrubs dislike the Flooded District. Fact.

My biggest gripe with that level is the bizarre enemy detection. Sometimes they see me from really far away and sometimes they are oblivious to me.

The level layout is fine though, but still prefer most of the other levels.

 

[beastmode]

1/

Spoiler

you need to dump him into a safe dumpster that pops up on your HUD if you knock him out, or if circumstances prevail you just need to make sure he runs out of the building and doesn't get killed by any guards in the court yard accidentally

Spoiler

Didn't knock him out. Nor was he near any guards. He just stood around by the secret entrance statue.

Spoiler

Second one was just trying to illustrate the idiocy of having an NPC you save in scripted event immediately walk into a street filled with weepers. Saving her from them with no acknowledgement really exposes the shallow nature of those events within the world simulation.

 

[Papercuts]

I didn't expect the mana to work the way it did, with it always regenerating after each use of Blink. I figured it would be more like the DE:HR battery that only worked when you were tapped out.

It's especially odd that Dark Vision consumes the same amount and lasts more than long enough to actually have it refill mid power, letting you easily blink behind people as you see their vision cone move away from you. That combo alone makes the game extremely easy, and it's hard not to exploit by the nature of the design.

 

[AniHawk]

just beat it.

eh.

i need to stop my imagination from doing things.

 

[Riposte]

The levels are basically built with the assumption that the player will use Blink, while also largely making it feasible to traverse the old-fashioned way. I use a mix of Blink and platforming to get around and it feels smooth, and I don't feel like the level design's been compromised.

But they clearly are not, as the layout of the game doesn't keep up for the most part. It is trivialized by Blink (and to a lesser extent Dark Vision and the heart). It is only when the game bottlenecks you does blink stay in check and even then it just remains the best (cheapest, safest) option.

Of course Blink would be feel smooth, it smooths out the game itself.

I've found Blink to add more freedom and variety than anything else. Opinions will probably differ here but I also view Dishonored less a straight stealth game, personally, and more a sandbox. And Blink is just another tool in that sandbox.

I basically go stealth if I'm in the mood to, but I don't feel restricted to it. It's not a game I really play for the game-over challenge but rather the challenge of finding various ways to take out enemies as I soak in the atmosphere in a cool setting.

What you saying is more or less that the level design (and this includes the interaction between enemies and the player) isn't very good as balanced by what the player can do, but you just don't mind because you like what the player can do in itself and the atmosphere is good. That's a hard thing for me to forgive. I liked Blink too, but it is a very fleeting amount of fun as I saw the game's intricate level design fall apart in front of me. I recall all the games which don't fall apart so swiftly and had more virtues like more natural exploration or specialization.

 

[beastmode]

Game's at the same level of bullshittery as Red Dead Redemption for me. The difference is that Dishonored's design philosophy & sales pitch is choice, creativity, and player agency so I feel even more disappointed.

 

[Dennis]

Flooded District is truly awful. But luckily the mission right after is fine.

I am at the last (I think) mission now and unless it turns out to be bad, I can safely say that the horrible Flooded District is the only misstep the game has made with its levels.

 

[syllogism]

You can look at Dishonored as a game about taking many keys and opening many locks, much like Deus Ex or Hitman. However it is also a game which immediately gives you a magic key that opens every one those locks. There should have been no free spells, not blink or god-vision. Blink itself obliterates more than half of the game's level design (Dark Vision will clean up whatever is left). I'm going to take a hard stance and say they didn't properly design around it. Like... if you took Human Revolution and added blink to it, it would feel just about as overpowered as it does in Dishonored. One way to look at it is that the game is very vertical, but enemies and most obstacles are horizontally inclined and work very poorly against vertical combat or stealth. Solutions using Agility (lol), Possession, and so on become marginal alternate paths branching off the shorter straight line.

I also think exploration is too guided (the heart lol. Everything is gold, this feels like Twilight Princess), the game lacks any sort of punishment (alarms are lol), and combat is quite easily solved (though I like it enough. The gun feels surprisingly good to shoot). There are too few powers, a few powers are really lame, mana is too plentiful (and unnecessary in some cases), and, maybe one of the game's biggest failings, it fails to garner any sort of specialization (not in powers, not in upgrades, and ultimately not in tactics). Bone charms don't do a good enough job to elevate that last problem.

I agree with most that is being said here, in particular level design and blink. It's a good game with some design issues and overall not as satisfying as Thief or the new Deus Ex. Blink and combat being trivial (disclaimer: i didn't play at the highest difficulty) removes most of the tension. The heart and the fact mana isn't a limited resource also resulted in exploration not being as satisfying as in some other games of this genre. I'm OCD about these games so I take my time but it didn't feel like I was being sufficiently rewarded, thus it got a bit tedious.

 

[xenist]

I'll take one game where the developers trust me and themselves to give me my tools, give me my space, give me my objective and then turn around and let me do whatever, than ten games where "choice" just means a different guided path for you. Sure, I'm gonna get to dead ends. I'm gonna get to awkward places both mechanically and diegetically. I may even break stuff. I don't care.

Dishonored is not the kind of game where your path is clearly determined by your choice of playstyle. Instead of "I'm stealthy therefore vents" it's "I'm stealthy therefore do whatever, just not be seen." In this way it is clearly superior to games like DX:HR. Yes, you could approach its objectives through difefrent paths, but they were paths nonetheless. Dishonored is absolutely open in its approach. Its "paths" branch after almost every step you make. I have grown more and more distasteful of crafted experiences for all their benefits.

 

[Carbonox]

I'm such a monster:

Spoiler

In the Golden Cat where you find the room with the unconscious hooker and aristocrat, I picked them up and threw them out of the window in to the ocean just 'cause.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Eusis]

I have grown more and more distasteful of crafted experiences for all their benefits.

A lot of the problem is HOW crafted they are really. I don't mind a fairly linear game with some reasonable ability to explore or whatever, but I don't want it to just be a corridor from start to finish just so they can carefully craft each setpiece, especially when it's not inherently necessary in the genre (IE 2D platformers that aren't actively Metroid style or similar). We actually seem to be in wild extremes where the most popular games are carefully crafted setpiece corridors or full blown open world games, when the middle grounds like this, Dark Souls, and older Metroid/Zelda (even current Zelda to an extent!) are far, far more satisfying. Hell, I considered Halo and Half Life some of the earliest examples of more rigidly linear FPSes, but in comparison to the likes of CoD they're also "middle ground" games, albeit a few steps from the linear extreme.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Level 5, the party, was a bit of a disappointment to me.

Spoiler

I had hoped there'd be more investigating and mingling. The first woman I spoke to said to go upstairs, I did so easily, then after ten minutes of exploring I found what I needed to know and popped downstairs to slit her throat.

It wasn't a bad mission, but I thought it had potential to be much better.

 

[TheOddOne]

Level 5, the party, was a bit of a disappointment to me.

Spoiler

I had hoped there'd be more investigating and mingling. The first woman I spoke to said to go upstairs, I did so easily, then after ten minutes of exploring I found what I needed to know and popped downstairs to slit her throat.

It wasn't a bad mission, but I thought it had potential to be much better.

You should have walked around and spoke to more people, it really is pretty open.

 

[spindoctor]

Level 5, the party, was a bit of a disappointment to me.

Spoiler

I had hoped there'd be more investigating and mingling. The first woman I spoke to said to go upstairs, I did so easily, then after ten minutes of exploring I found what I needed to know and popped downstairs to slit her throat.

It wasn't a bad mission, but I thought it had potential to be much better.

Yea, the idea of the mission is awesome but it's execution was a bit undercooked.

Spoiler

You just need to spend 5 minutes on the ground floor talking to 2-3 people and you'll get all the mission info including the non lethal variant without ever having to go upstairs. I actually went up for exploration but the AI bugged out on me somehow so whenever I would return downstairs, everyone would get alarmed. I tried everything, including leaving the building by the balcony and coming back in but they would always get alarmed at the sight of me. Eventually had to stab the target and run down to the basement to get out.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

You should have walked around and spoke to more people, it really is pretty open.

The few people I spoke to just commented on my mask, mostly, so I gave up.

Yea, the idea of the mission is awesome but it's execution was a bit undercooked.

Spoiler

You just need to spend 5 minutes on the ground floor talking to 2-3 people and you'll get all the mission info including the non lethal variant without ever having to go upstairs. I actually went up for exploration but the AI bugged out on me somehow so whenever I would return downstairs, everyone would get alarmed. I tried everything, including leaving the building by the balcony and coming back in but they would always get alarmed at the sight of me. Eventually had to stab the target and run down to the basement to get out.

Yeah the AI bugged for me too. No guard saw me, not even a stage 1 alert, but when I went downstairs everyone was crouched and the guards attacked me. Had to leg it.

 

[Veelk]

If I select new game after beating it, will I retain all my abilities, or is it back to square one? I tried the mission select and it just gives me back the gear I had when I first did that mission.

 

[TheOddOne]

The few people I spoke to just commented on my mask, mostly, so I gave up.

I like the non-lethal way to take her down, talk to enough people and you will find it out Also, be nice and get a lady a drink, ladies love booze.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I'll talk to more people when I replay it, then!

 

[Eusis]

Level 5, the party, was a bit of a disappointment to me.

Spoiler

I had hoped there'd be more investigating and mingling. The first woman I spoke to said to go upstairs, I did so easily, then after ten minutes of exploring I found what I needed to know and popped downstairs to slit her throat.

It wasn't a bad mission, but I thought it had potential to be much better.

Given how late in the game the mission is it really does make me wonder what the hell was going on with play testers to need someone to suggest going upstairs. If this were the first proper assassination or even MAYBE the second then I could understand, but at that point players should understand that doesn't mean you literally can't go up there, but that you need to find a different route (or

Spoiler

wait for the retarded guard to walk away and never come back

). Did they just test with people playing demos at expos, or blind testing with people skipping all other missions and only playing that one? Or they tried to find a different way to solve it, which definitely can be done with an even less obvious elements (

Spoiler

where the fuck do I get a drink for the lady? Wait, the fountain!?

).

 

[beastmode]

So it's bugged for everyone? Damn.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Given how late in the game the mission is it really does make me wonder what the hell was going on with play testers to need someone to suggest going upstairs. If this were the first proper assassination or even MAYBE the second then I could understand, but at that point players should understand that doesn't mean you literally can't go up there, but that you need to find a different route (or

Spoiler

wait for the retarded guard to walk away and never come back

). Did they just test with people playing demos at expos, or blind testing with people skipping all other missions and only playing that one? Or they tried to find a different way to solve it, which definitely can be done with an even less obvious elements (

Spoiler

where the fuck do I get a drink for the lady? Wait, the fountain!?

).

Yep, if it was the first oe second mission I'd be more forgiving, but pretty much everything that comes before it is so complex in comparison.

I mean, even getting to the party is just crossing a bridge and hopping a wall...

 

[spindoctor]

Given how late in the game the mission is it really does make me wonder what the hell was going on with play testers to need someone to suggest going upstairs.

Was this the level they talked about when they said that people wouldn't go upstairs because a guard told them not to?

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Was this the level they talked about when they said that people wouldn't go upstairs because a guard told them not to?

... What? Who would listen to a guard?

There's a massive particle gate there that you've been taught since the second mission you can disable and get around. Of course people are going to do that, especially

Spoiler

when the very first guest you see suggests it.

 

[Dennis]

Judging from this thread I am the only one playing this to maximum.

People rush through miss half the stuff. ALL my missions have been completed using alternative non-lethal means and getting the most involved and interesting outcomes.

Hence my playtime is long and I have gotten my moneys worth.

This is one of those games that actually expects the player to take responsibilty for their own enjoyment. You get out what you put in.

I know this rare these days and almost antithetical to the "I am the consumer, I paid money, now entertain me dammit" attitude.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I've explored and done a lot of side quests, I just don't feel that mission was designed in a way that encouraged it. The guests I spoke to said trivial things and the upstairs contained empty rooms and a few notes. When I went out on to the balcony thinking I could maybe reach another part of the house it was clear to me it was just another route to get down back to the start or to be used as an escape.

Then, when I went back downstairs, everyone was bugged so I had no real option but to stab her in the face and leg it.

 

[beastmode]

Judging from this thread I am the only one playing this to maximum.

On the fifth mission. Steam says 22.2 hrs.

Pros
-Art direction
-Player toolset
-Level design
-The universe
-The Heart

Cons (nitpicks)
-Feels designed for waypoints
-Busted objectives and mission linearity
-Some dumb repeating graffiti in weird places
-Wonky Heart aiming, no option to skip if you've already heard the blurb before
-Art direction when it looks straight up lifted from Half-Life 2
-Some of the effects are pretty poor (e.g. the wire traps)
-Letterboxing
-Could use some dialogue trees, maybe puzzles
-Still waiting for this type of game to do co-op or multiplayer (e.g. Deus Ex, Skyrim)

Probably GOTY.

 

[spindoctor]

... What? Who would listen to a guard?

There's a massive particle gate there that you've been taught since the second mission you can disable and get around. Of course people are going to do that, especially

Spoiler

when the very first guest you see suggests it.

Yea apparently this was the mission - http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/21/dishonored-clues-hints/

Judging from this thread I am the only one playing this to maximum.

Your judgement is so very very wrong.

 

[TheOddOne]

I find it funny that you can put Corbo's name in the guestbook. Such a little thing, but funny as hell.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Yea apparently this was the mission - http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/21/dishonored-clues-hints/

LOL

Talk about depressing. Don't go in a restricted area in a stealth game when you're an assassin?

Get better play testers.

 

[Eusis]

Judging from this thread I am the only one playing this to maximum.

People rush through miss half the stuff. ALL my missions have been completed using alternative non-lethal means and getting the most involved and interesting outcomes.

Hence my playtime is long and I have gotten my moneys worth.

This is one of those games that actually expects the player to take responsibilty for their own enjoyment. You get out what you put in.

I know this rare these days and almost antithetical to the "I am the consumer, I payed money, now entertain me dammit" attitude.

Are you reading another thread? A few of us talked about replaying it, preferring Very Hard due to Normal being a complete pushover, and while I talk about possibly being able to finish that mission without going upstairs I definitely did that and did my best to pick it clean without alerting anyone. I think the only case I saw of rushing through without really taking it in was that guy on 4chan, and I half suspect they had a long, normal playthrough before deciding to see if they can do a light speedrun. Personally, I got my money's worth by any sane definition.

Curiously enough, I never DID get the "why don't you go upstairs?" message on either playthrough. Either I didn't notice it being mentioned, I'm thinking of it isolated from a pile of other information, or maybe it even observes just how you're playing and drops it based on that: players who pick stages clean are obviously not going to give a shit about what some guard says, just whether he sees you go up there or not.

 

[persongr]

Level 5, the party, was a bit of a disappointment to me.

Spoiler

I had hoped there'd be more investigating and mingling. The first woman I spoke to said to go upstairs, I did so easily, then after ten minutes of exploring I found what I needed to know and popped downstairs to slit her throat.

It wasn't a bad mission, but I thought it had potential to be much better.

Yeah you should have investigated a bit more

Spoiler

walking around the house, a man would offer you a nonlethal choice, which would offer a rune as a reward in your chambers. Also, he would give you her name, thus making the second floor research optional.

about the bug:

Spoiler

i entered the second floor after i had neutralized lydia, and didn't come across any problems with the guests

party mission, trivia:

Spoiler

does anyone know the consequences of signing the guest book? I did so, but never heard comments about it :|

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Curiously enough, I never DID get the "why don't you go upstairs?" message on either playthrough. Either I didn't notice it being mentioned, I'm thinking of it isolated from a pile of other information, or maybe it even observes just how you're playing and drops it based on that: players who pick stages clean are obviously not going to give a shit about what some guard says, just whether he sees you go up there or not.

It's said by the very first woman once you enter the house. I stopped to listen to their conversation and then spoke to her, thinking I'd might start a cool investigation, and she basically goes "clues are probably upstairs!!" and that's it.

I've done a complete stealth playthrough with maybe 5/6 kills in total, so I doubt it's dynamic. I've been as much of a ghost as possible, doing quite a few non-lethal options for my targets.

Yeah you should have investigated a bit more

Spoiler

walking around the house, a man would offer you a nonlethal choice, which would offer a rune as a reward in your chambers. Also, he would give you her name, thus making the second floor research optional.

I'll concede that in this case I clearly just chose the wrong people to talk to after the first woman To be fair, though, the optional non-lethal way doesn't sound thrilling either. I think I just wanted more from this grand party scenario.

 

[beastmode]

Yeah you should have investigated a bit more

Spoiler

walking around the house, a man would offer you a nonlethal choice, which would offer a rune as a reward in your chambers. Also, he would give you her name, thus making the second floor research optional.

If you go upstairs the guards on the main floor become hostile even if you've been stealthy.

 

[Eusis]

Spoiler

does anyone know the consequences of signing the guest book? I did so, but never heard comments about it :|

Apparently at some point

Spoiler

someone remarks it must have been a bad joke.

Kinda curious to figure out where and how, and how that differs based on chaos level because I'd think if you took the lethal route... yeah, that should REALLY stir up talk.

 

[persongr]

If you go upstairs the guards on the main floor become hostile even if you've been stealthy.

yeah, about that, i edited my post above. (should you use spoilers?)

I'll concede that in this case I clearly just chose the wrong people to talk to after the first woman To be fair, though, the optional non-lethal way doesn't sound thrilling either. I think I just wanted more from this grand party scenario.

It wasn't as grandiose as it could be, but more interesting than the "oh hi, you're dead" option.

 

[Eusis]

If you go upstairs the guards on the main floor become hostile even if you've been stealthy.

Missed this. Uhh, they didn't for me. I'd think that'd be the case if you got caught though.

yeah, about that, i edited my post above. (should you use spoilers?)

A news story talked about that mission and specifically going upstairs, and that a guard told you not to. Certainly you could put two and two together, I'd consider all the other options bigger spoilers (nevermind WHY you would need to go up there).

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

It wasn't as grandiose as it could be, but more interesting than the "oh hi, you're dead" option.

If she was cowering because you went upstairs and triggered some invisible fail state you'd be stabbing her in the face and running too, sir!

Missed this. Uhh, they didn't for me. I'd think that'd be the case if you got caught though.

I definitely didn't get seen.

 

[persongr]

If she was cowering because you went upstairs and triggered some invisible fail state you'd be stabbing her in the face and running too, sir!

I guess so! Maybe someone should notify Arkane for this in their fora or something...

 

[Sidzed2]

Flooded District is one of the longer, more open levels since the very first, with excellent vertical level design in a really interest and great looking settings. It's also the first proper time in the game where

Spoiler

you're on an assassination mission with no real guidance or set objective

.

The only negative I have against it is

Spoiler

the bland linear sewer stretch at the end

, but that makes up such a small percentage of an otherwise phenomenal level that I don't really mind.

Only scrubs dislike the Flooded District. Fact.



Of all the people I've spoken to about this game, and all the comments I've read, here and elsewhere, you are literally the very first person to draw any comparison between Dishonored's art direction and Fallout 3. It looks nothing, nothing like Fallout 3 or like it's trying to look like Fallout 3, and instead could be mistaken for impressionist Half-Life 2. If you really feel it looks that way, okay I guess, but I'm baffled how you drew those comparisons.

Oh no no no, it's truly awful and the absolute low-point of the game. The art is unbearably drab, the enemies have near-psychic abilities to spot Corvo, and that SEWER! My god, it's horrendous.

What's worse, there is no rhythm to the thing. After you neutralize the target, the level just goes on and on and on... A linear trek through, dark, cramped and boring corridors. Bleurgh.

The next mission isn't much better. In fact the last 3 missions sort of break my heart.

 

[Eusis]

I definitely didn't get seen.

Game probably bugged or something. My second run of the first assassination had

Spoiler

Campbell and Curnow come out of the meeting room just after they started talking regardless of what was happening. I guess I made enough ruckus I created a conflict in their AI where they would've responded, but were ALSO scripted to stay in place, so it delays until they become active. Something similar could've happened there, maybe you jumped around too much, barely got seen by the guard as you went up, or something else entirely?

 

[beastmode]

yeah, about that, i edited my post above. (should you use spoilers?)

Is someone going to be upset now that they know this game has guards, buildings, and stealth?

Missed this. Uhh, they didn't for me. I'd think that'd be the case if you got caught though.

If I got caught it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[JambiBum]

How is no one mentioning the awesome side quest for the party mission? I'm interested in how others did it. I

Spoiler

let him shoot first, stopped time, possed him and then let him kill himself with his own gun.

 

[Eusis]

SOMETHING must have triggered though.

However, come to think of it I wonder if that might be the real reason people didn't go up? They weren't assuming typical game logic "if they say I can't go up there I can't go up there!", but "if I go up there they'll all instantly know and want to kill me", which DEFINITELY makes sense with the way some games are where they just magically KNOW. And hell, it sounds like that's happened intentionally or not for some of you anyway.

 

[Sidzed2]

The party mission is definitely screwed up. I too had the experience of the guards going on high alert after going upstairs. I reloaded an earlier save and did it all again, basically in exactly the same way as before, and it worked out fine. Really sullied an otherwise fantastic level.