Support NeoGAF

[Wizpig]

So the critic is right about this being a good "78/100" game, and GAF is wrong about this being a shitty game.

 

[Zarovitch]

Is this game is better than Mushroom Man?

 

[gamingeek]

WTF has happened in this thread? :lol

I'm on my 2nd playthrough on Epic Mickey, found much more stuff, breaking down the levels more. Also encountering more camera trouble than I did on my first run through. I guess because I'm trying to cram my ass into every damned corner of the game looking for stuff.

Managed to get only 2 out of 4 of Goofy's parts in Tomorrow Land, I officially dislike this level. Got 3 out of 4 of Daisy's robot parts in Ventureland and facing off with H--- now. I can't work out how to kill him, I saved T--------- before.

I think by the end of my 2nd playthrough I might bump my provisional score down to somewhere between 8.5 - 8.7.

Not being able to revisit levels and the auto saving hurts things a bit. Still very enjoyable though and I had forgotten some of the nice set pieces here.

This game has got 6/10 and 9/10s from critics, this thread pretty much reflects that. Personally I would say to anyone thinking about getting this, watch the gametrailers review which sits plum in the middle and is a little more level headed.

 

[markatisu]

I find it humorous when someone shares a criticism about a game and that someone is attacked by the game's fans instead of offering any rebuttal of substance. It proves that the critic is right.

If you are speaking about your criticism it was "played it for a few hours, it sucks and nobody can defend it" So not sure what kind of rebuttal you are looking for.

Had you finished the game or progressed further along than I think you had you might have enjoyed it more. I do not think anyone is contesting the slow level progression, horrible camera, or tedious fetch quests that make up the first few levels/worlds.

 

[RobbieNick]

I liked the Evil Dead Xbox games somewhat because i liked the Evil Dead franchise and the game wasn't TERRIBLE but it was farrrrrrrrr from a good game. It's okay to like a game that isn't that good but you should accept the fact that it has major problems. It's like saying " well i prefer a game to have a bad framerate, it's fun to see your character pause when lots of enemies come into the screen, makes me feel like i get more time to decide what to do next"

But the Evil Dead game was met with low expectations to begin with. It was strictly for fans of the franchise. This game was marketed with tons of hype and they made it out to be this huge "Epic" game. It obviously did NOT meet up to expectations.

 

[netguy503]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_bvwpVN7fI&feature=sub

This is DSP's review of Epic Mickey. Keep in mind that his ratings are from 0-5 only. He is a very flawed reviewer

Spoiler

as well as human being

.:lol

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_bvwpVN7fI&feature=sub

This is DSP's review of Epic Mickey. Keep in mind that his ratings are from 0-5 only. He is a very flawed reviewer

Spoiler

as well as human being

.:lol

This review can pretty much stand in for my opinion, point for point. I mean, I wouldn't call it "Epic Shitty" and say its a steaming pile of shit and fuck you, but as for all of the points raised... yeah.

 

[netguy503]

This review can pretty much stand in for my opinion, point for point. I mean, I wouldn't call it "Epic Shitty" and say its a steaming pile of shit and fuck you, but as for all of the points raised... yeah.

He still shouldn't rate it a 3.5 with the amount of problems he raised which is a C+/B- according to his scale.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

So essentially this game is a Rare Nintendo 64 platformer only with Mickey Mouse? Because that's the impression I get from this thread.

Just want to make sure because I may borrow a Wii to play this.

 

[Lijik]

So essentially this game is a Rare Nintendo 64 platformer only with Mickey Mouse? Because that's the impression I get from this thread.

Just want to make sure because I may borrow a Wii to play this.

Someone hit the nail on the head when they said it was structured like Conker, theres just a lot more fetch questing in between worlds.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So essentially this game is a Rare Nintendo 64 platformer only with Mickey Mouse? Because that's the impression I get from this thread.

Just want to make sure because I may borrow a Wii to play this.

funny that is mentioned because wasn't Rare supposed to make some Mickey platformer for N64 when Nintendo and Disney announced that exclusive partnership? I always imagined it would look something like Epic Mickey, only it never saw the light of day and we ended up with a couple of Mickey Mouse racing games and some shitty Princess game for GB Color.

 

[JohngPR]

Got to Osworld and I'm still really enjoying the game. The story is a bit darker than I anticipated. The story is pretty creative, IMO.

Yes, it has some camera issues and has a bit of jankyness to it, but that doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile game.

I think that's the problem with expectations these days. It seems like people are less tolerant of a game having problems before they pretty much write it off. I understand that some people might genuinely not like the game, but if you passed final judgment on this game after playing it for three hours, I think that's a bit too soon to completely write the game off.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Someone hit the nail on the head when they said it was structured like Conker, theres just a lot more fetch questing in between worlds.

But Conker is one of the best games ever made so why the hate?

 

[MrDaravon]

Got to Osworld and I'm still really enjoying the game. The story is a bit darker than I anticipated. The story is pretty creative, IMO.

Yes, it has some camera issues and has a bit of jankyness to it, but that doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile game.

I think that's the problem with expectations these days. It seems like people are less tolerant of a game having problems before they pretty much write it off. I understand that some people might genuinely not like the game, but if you passed final judgment on this game after playing it for three hours, I think that's a bit too soon to completely write the game off.

If you're not enjoying a game after 3 hours, the developers have done something wrong, period.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

But Conker is one of the best games ever made so why the hate?

It's actually much closer in scope, length and design to Conker's Bad Fur Day, anyway (diametrically opposed content notwithstanding), which crushes it like a grape.

It's Conker, if Conker had only one mechanic and 75 fetch quests. And a borked camera.

My point was that it was not really as broad and open as Banjo-Kazooie, where the overarching goal is to collect a set number of doohickeys in a gigantic level. It's a bunch of discrete, small-ish areas with evolving objectives that add up to about a 15-hour game.

 

[Rush2thestart]

If you're not enjoying a game after 3 hours, the developers have done something wrong, period.

Yeah couldn't possibly be that you just don't like the game.

 

[JohngPR]

If you're not enjoying a game after 3 hours, the developers have done something wrong, period.

Perhaps you're right, but 3 hours of a 20-25 hour game isn't a ton of time in the grand scheme of things.

I certainly wouldn't want a reviewer to play three hours of any game and then write a review of it.

I'mtalking more about the people that are saying the game is shit after playing it for a short time. Personally, it's kind of hard to take that kind of opinion seriously because I don't think Epic Mickey is a shitty game. Flawed perhaps, but there are definitely worse games out there. It just comes off as hyperbole, just as much for those saying the game is amazing and that there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[MrDaravon]

Yeah couldn't possibly be that you just don't like the game.

If you had actually read what I was responding to, you would have seen that he said that he considered 3 hours "a bit too soon" to write the game off.

To rephrase, if it takes your game more than 3 hours to give the player a compelling reason to want to keep playing, it's doing it wrong. If your game has a shit first 5 hours but then the most amazing 20 hours after the fact, you can't expect players to necessarily get to that point, or to give a game that many second chances. See all of the FFXIII backlash for example. Ultimately at the end of the day I had a good time with that game, but I had to slog through so much bullshit to get to the amazing stuff that I wouldn't recommend it to almost anybody.

 

[Owzers]

If you had actually read what I was responding to, you would have seen that he said that he considered 3 hours "a bit too soon" to write the game off.

To rephrase, if it takes your game more than 3 hours to give the player a compelling reason to want to keep playing, it's doing it wrong. If your game has a shit first 5 hours but then the most amazing 20 hours after the fact, you can't expect players to necessarily get to that point, or to give a game that many second chances. See all of the FFXIII backlash for example. Ultimately at the end of the day I had a good time with that game, but I had to slog through so much bullshit to get to the amazing stuff that I wouldn't recommend it to almost anybody.

Out of curiousity, when did you get to the amazing stuff and without spoilers, why was it amazing? Gameplay change? I keep going back to this game but everytime i do it's just...terrible. I got the first rocket piece on top of the tower in Tomorrow Land and now i'm supposed to do more fetch quests to get ten power sparks. Is it worth doing this? I only have 300 tickets because i spent mine on the last trip to Mean Street buying power sparks avoiding this very same crap. It's like Warren snuck up to me and said " hah you thought you'd get past fetch quests? HERE"S SOME MORE!"

I think i'm just going to sell this unless it's going to get better SOON, i'd like to move on to something else but i keep going back to it. Game abuse

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Put in about 4-5 hours on the game over the weekend. Really enjoying playing it, though I'd say the review scores seem about right overall... game could definitely used some more time for polish and tuning.

Other thoughts: camera can definitely be wonky, but so far it hasn't really been anything above a minor annoyance. Love the art and setting, think it has mostly solid platforming mechanics, and the painting aspect is cool. I keep forgetting I can also interact with the world with thinner, as I'm just not used to erasing part of the world I'm playing in. The frequent fetch quests can be a bit much and the game seems much more linear/less choice-based than I'd like, at least as far as I am

Spoiler

(swamp outside Tomorrow Land)

.

Looking forward to playing more... probably this weekend.

 

[Borman]

In anticipation for picking the game up, Im looking at chargers for my Wii. Are there any that don't need to replace the back? Ive got a Red Wiimote and a Black one and I just don't want to deal with funky backs. Thanks!

 

[Windom Earle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_bvwpVN7fI&feature=sub

This is DSP's review of Epic Mickey. Keep in mind that his ratings are from 0-5 only. He is a very flawed reviewer

Spoiler

as well as human being

.:lol

Pretty good review, I agree with most of his points. Also the framerate gets even worse? It's allready pretty bad IMO. This is nowhere near a stable 30. Oh well, DKCR has spoiled me.

 

[LevityNYC]

If you're not enjoying a game after 3 hours, the developers have done something wrong, period.

Indeed

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

It's Conker, if Conker had only one mechanic and 75 fetch quests. And a borked camera.

My point was that it was not really as broad and open as Banjo-Kazooie, where the overarching goal is to collect a set number of doohickeys in a gigantic level. It's a bunch of discrete, small-ish areas with evolving objectives that add up to about a 15-hour game.

So in other words it's as if they took everything good about Rare platformers, and took them away, while keeping the things that have made them age to a degree?

 

[gamingeek]

So in other words it's as if they took everything good about Rare platformers, and took them away, while keeping the things that have made them age to a degree?

Why don't you read our thread back at the barn?

 

[gamingeek]

2 page interview here, have fun guys.

http://clutch.mtv.com/2010/12/06/epic-mickeys-warren-spector-responds-to-the-internets/

 

[Amir0x]

2 page interview here, have fun guys.

http://clutch.mtv.com/2010/12/06/epic-mickeys-warren-spector-responds-to-the-internets/

Welp, I'm not sure exactly what type of game the camera is supposed to work for... because in action scenes, platforming moments and "RPG" moments (lol, it's hardly an RPG in any moment contrary to what he wishes)... it's a complete failure. He suggests the camera had to accommodate multiple play styles, but I'm not sure why focusing on just a platforming-type camera wouldn't have made it way better. Had he tuned the camera to work well for the platforming style, I feel it would have been better overall by far. There are absolutely obscene camera failures at the most critical times, no matter how you fiddle around with it.

And anyway, if it was JUST the shit camera it might be forgivable. But there are fundamental issues with the design that have nothing to do with 'misunderstanding' the concept... and everything to do with them just being poor development choices. I also can't tell you the amount of time I pointed at something to paint, only to be inexplicably blocked by like a tiny slope in the ground or some shit. Even in first person sometimes I have to constantly modify my position to paint smaller places because for whatever reason the paint will hit the floor instead of something I'm clearly pointing at with the pointer icon. Like, on one of those hump bridges trying to paint the rails, jesus... There's so many little annoyances.

 

[AniHawk]

I'm curious as to what you would replace MP's beam doors with. Not saying the idea is flawless, but how else do you identify to the player where they should be going next aside from making the game a completely linear path? (ie. you get the wave beam, now you can look at your map and go to all the areas with purple doors, there's not really a good alternative to this).

Haven't gone through a door yet: colored beam doors
After having gone through the door once: any beam opens the door

Seems like something that might've been a problem with GC hardware or disc space. I dunno. Retro's weird

Spoiler

(bad)

design decisions don't stop with that game. DKCR's got 'em too, so maybe they really thought it was a good idea.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I haven't read the entire article yet, but for the record, I challenge anyone to break the camera in a game like Super Mario Galaxy 2 for an extended period of time, specifically during movement over a platforming section. You have to be physically fighting against it to knock it out of place, as opposed to the opposite scenario Epic Mickey presents.

This doesn't counter any larger point, and I'm not saying that sort of camera could have worked in Epic Mickey, but to say you can break the camera in a third-person platformer in 3D specifically tailored for any one control set is a bit inaccurate.

This may or -- more than likely -- may not actually discredit any of his larger points, which I haven't yet read, but you know, just sayin'.

 

[TheMagician]

Warren Spector: 'Reviewers misunderstood Epic Mickey'

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=279538

 

[Ushojax]

If reviewers want to give us a hard time about it because they're misunderstanding the game we made, it's not for me to tell them that they're wrong, absolutely not.

:lol Just admit it Warren, Disney forced the game out half-done. He basically admits in the interview that the camera is a broken mess. It will be interesting to see what he says about the development of the game once Junction Point is inevitably closed down and Spector shuffled off.

The fact that you're making something that people feel that strongly about either way is way better to me in a weird sort of way, of course you want everybody to think you made the best game ever, but if we were trending at something like an 8 out of 10? I'd probably have to kill myself.

Just stop now.

 

[gamingeek]

Warren Spector: 'Reviewers misunderstood Epic Mickey'

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=279538

That's just a second site reporting the same story from the source link I provided

 

[Deleted member 30609]

""But here's the deal, what I try to be completely clear about is that this is not a platforming game. This is a game that takes platforming elements and adventure game elements and role-playing elements and merges them. So we couldn't tune the camera perfectly for platforming or for action adventure. It’s a very different camera style. What we did is try to find the best compromise in the moment and give the player as much manual control as we could. So we took the hardest problem in third-person gaming and made it harder by trying to accommodate two different playing styles."

I respect him a lot, but there is a HUGE ideological misalignment in here, in my opinion. If you have to compromise something as substantial and experience forming as an in-game camera to accommodate different play-styles, then you have your priorities back to front. As far as I'm concerned, the vision should be reined in to fit the technology. This is a massive ethical flaw present throughout all of Epic Mickey, and is almost certainly why most people are left without any one part of the game resonating strongly with them. There's no one thing done well enough to latch onto.

 

[[Nintex]]

I think that Spector missed the point, so I dug up one of his design documents

 

[MYE]

I see the bitching is still going strong in here. And its always the same handfull of people coming back for another round.

 

[apana]

Yikes, the damage control by Warren is making me depressed. Also why do I get the feeling that a few more Gaffers will be sacrificed to Disney Epic Mickey before all is said and done? Good luck people.

 

[EatChildren]

I see the bitching is still going strong in here. And its always the same handfull of people coming back for another round.

If you want a circle jerk, go elsewhere.

 

[dragonfart28]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTMFX7BlVkw

 

[hatchx]

"And I will go to my grave, imperfect as it is, proud as hell of my camera team. If reviewers want to give us a hard time about it because they're misunderstanding the game we made, it's not for me to tell them that they're wrong, absolutely not. But I wish people would get it out of their head that we made a 'Mario' competitor, because we didn't."


pffft



I'm wondering how this game will perform.

 

[confuziz]

"And I will go to my grave, imperfect as it is, proud as hell of my camera team. If reviewers want to give us a hard time about it because they're misunderstanding the game we made, it's not for me to tell them that they're wrong, absolutely not. But I wish people would get it out of their head that we made a 'Mario' competitor, because we didn't."


pffft



I'm wondering how this game will perform.

saleswise? I think abysmal in europe, but solid in america

 

[MYE]

If you want a circle jerk, go elsewhere.

Shoe fits?

 

[Lijik]

"And I will go to my grave, imperfect as it is, proud as hell of my camera team. If reviewers want to give us a hard time about it because they're misunderstanding the game we made, it's not for me to tell them that they're wrong, absolutely not. But I wish people would get it out of their head that we made a 'Mario' competitor, because we didn't."

:lol
Come on Warren, the first I ever heard of this game was in an EGM Rumor Mill article that said "Disney wants Warren Spector to make a Mario killer starring Mickey Mouse"

 

[EatChildren]

Shoe fits?

Not really. I've refrained from posting awhile now, but I've noticed increasing hostility from people enjoying the game against people who are not, as if those who are disappointed "dont get it" or are complaining about insignificant issues.

Your post was a prime example of this childness. Seems plenty of people are discussing in-depth their thoughts about what does and does not work. Dont be so quick to call it 'bitching' just because they dont share your impressions.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I think it's sometimes interesting to discuss how and why a game doesn't work at least as much as why a game does work. Especially for a game like this, which isn't a completely dismissable piece of shovelware but seems to have made some baffling decisions in development.

So, sorry if it's not all sunshine and lollipops, but neither is the game. I have no interest in personally insulting Warren Spector or going Angry Video Game Nerd on the game but I'm still interested in reading deconstructions and criticisms of the game. As well as embarrassingly weak defenses from the creative lead.

I mean, take Spector's claim that he could "break any camera within 30 seconds of any game". Yes, that's probably true! Except no one is trying to break the camera in Epic Mickey, it does it for you! It's not like I'm complaining about how easy it is to break the camera, I'm complaining that the camera breaks when I'm just trying to play the game normally. It's a depressingly transparent argument.

 

[Windom Earle]

I haven't read the entire article yet, but for the record, I challenge anyone to break the camera in a game like Super Mario Galaxy 2 for an extended period of time, specifically during movement over a platforming section. You have to be physically fighting against it to knock it out of place, as opposed to the opposite scenario Epic Mickey presents.

I've played some SMG2 yesterday and I think the camera is far from perfect. Try to get the second star in the beat block galaxy. At the most crucial part (trying to get the silver stars) you really have to make heavy adjustments to get a decent view. No reason to break it there, it is already. Of course EM's camera is infinitely worse.

 

[MeshuggahMan]

I don't post here much.. I also rarely ever return a game. I always finish every game I start. So with that, I'll say that I came close to returning epic mickey about 10 times. I've never seen worse game design for a supposedly AAA game. I found myself cursing this game to high hell, but not because of anything else than pure frustrationg from tedious and mind numbingly boring tasks. Is it just me or is everyone in these towns the most unreliable and laziest asshole ever. "Ah durpdurpdurp, I had that thing working a bit ago.. but I don't want to fix it. You go get these things." And yes, usually if I go to a door when I'm inside a house and it's the only place to go then I WANT TO FUCKING GO THROUGH THE DOOR. There is absolutely no reason to ask me if I want to do everything I said I wanted to do.

Overall, the game did have some decent platforming aspects with the thinner and paint aspects. However, I just find it impossible to overlook the idiotic design decisions for this game. Awful.

EDIT: Worth noting that I did tough it out and finish the game

 

[MYE]

Not really. I've refrained from posting awhile now, but I've noticed increasing hostility from people enjoying the game against people who are not, as if those who are disappointed "dont get it" or are complaining about insignificant issues.

Your post was a prime example of this childness. Seems plenty of people are discussing in-depth their thoughts about what does and does not work. Dont be so quick to call it 'bitching' just because they dont share your impressions.

"Childness" is proclaiming that a game is in fact shit and trying to justify positive opinions with "bad taste" or lower standards.

I feel no desire in disscussing about the music, art or other aspects of the game (things that naturally occur during the lifecycle of an Official Topic) when the same people keep coming back to say the same shit over and over and basically hijack the damn thread and prevent it from going anywhere. Thats the reason why when i hate something, i point it out, maybe elaborate on it and leave.

But thats me, i'm not telling how people should behave on message boards, i'm just pissed off that some dont seem to want this one to move on.

And again, i didnt mention names. There are alot of not so positive opinions here that have valid reasons to back them up. Never said otherwise

 

[Lijik]

.
EDIT- Didnt catch the stealth edit

 

[daakusedo]

If there is someone who don't know if he can take this game, now it seems really difficult.
If you read what's wrote recently here, we're far from just mixed opinions.
For me now that's just about the quality of situations to decide.

Months ago, we have that preview that describe the things you can do to collect masks for Goofy.
Like use paint to open the back wall of his shop and steal a mask you already give him.

That was pretty encouraging. And I want to know if the game have more of this moments.

 

[WillyFive]

And yes, usually if I go to a door when I'm inside a house and it's the only place to go then I WANT TO GO THROUGH THE DOOR. There is absolutely no reason to ask me if I want to do everything I said I wanted to do.

Yeah, I really dislike that.

I've played some SMG2 yesterday and I think the camera is far from perfect. Try to get the second star in the beat block galaxy. At the most crucial part (trying to get the silver stars) you really have to make heavy adjustments to get a decent view. No reason to break it there, it is already. Of course EM's camera is infinitely worse.

I haven't had to use the camera until the [spoilers]Green Stars[/spoilers], but yeah, once you have to use the camera, you notice it wasn't really designed to be used at all. You can barely move it or anything.