joshbob1985, do you read the letters, scrolls, and various stuff that are lying around? If you did, then you must have missed a vital directional clue.
Theylon shouldn't disappear from the town until you find his hideout in the eastern woods and discover that he has been working with the Conduit. Going inside the church shouldn't really change anything. I was down there before early in the game (sneaked with invisibility, and teleported my party down to me), and Theylon was still in town after that because there were no direct clues linking him to the church until you find his hideout.
If you did find his hideout, then you would have read that the Conduit was sending him a new female apprentice. It also contains directions to opening the hatch in the church, and mentions the amulet which he says the Conduit already has. If you put the two together, it's a clear sign that Evelyn is the link here, so why -wouldn't- you search her house for more evidence?
A good example of how discoveries can be made. you really do need to explore, and read, and try to piece together all the scraps of information you obtain.
It can be difficult, and easy to overlook some things, but it's incredibly rewarding when you figure something out for yourself.
Right, but at that point you can break into Evelyn's house and continue. I mean, it's a house marked with her name, sitting there locked. It's obviously related to her, so if you need to investigate her and she's disappeared it's quite an obvious place to look.
As I said, it's mindset issue. In other games you'd be told to search her house, this game leaves it up to you to choose how to conduct your investigation. A downside to allowing you this freedom is that the game has to guide you less, so there is more room to overlook things. That's not a fault with the actual game design though, probably more to do with how often other games hold our hands so tightly.
There are definitely a few times that the game is a little too obscure, but I think the murder investigation is very well scripted.
I had not hit a dead end, there were other things to do, I looked it up because it was clear from the nonsensical dialogue options that something was wrong, and it was. You are suppossed to
investigate Evelyn before you go to the church
but there is no way to know that.
I understand your desire to defend this excellent game but it does have design problems.
Duckroll: Theylon is lying crippled on the ground behind the force field under the church. I have not found his hideout.
Im sure if you find all the clues and follow it through in the intended order it all makes sense. But things become wierd if you dont follow the intended order.
I had not hit a dead end, there were other things to do, I looked it up because it was clear from the nonsensical dialogue options that something was wrong, and it was. You are suppossed to
investigate Evelyn before you go to the church
but there is no way to know that.
I understand your desire to defend this excellent game but it does have design problems.
The first building you run past is Evelyn's house, and if you hover over the door it tells you it's her house. There are a limited amount of buildings in the town, it isn't difficult to discover Evelyn's house. And if she's not there any more, it's the most obvious place in the entire game to check
.
And while there is an optimal order to things, there is not really a "supposed" order, and this is a good thing.
I've already admitted there are design problems, it's not perfect, but the things you list are actually positive design elements and not issues.
It only became weird for you because you checked the guide and found that you couldn't follow it. If you'd simply explored you would have eventually found alternative options naturally. If you do things in certain orders, you will always find references to things that aren't there. This is because not every character is omnipotent, and doesn't update automatically based on the different choices you make. The game teaches you to explore, and if you hit a dead end or find yourself lost exploring and paying attention to all the details will lead you where you need to go.
If I had re explored the town I would have come across her door again and broken in like I did after checking the guide.
This led me to her hideout. When I went in she was already there despite me having just left her in the medical centre. This makes no sense without the "she left in a hurry" you're meant to get from Theylon.
"It only became weird for you because you checked the guide" As I said, I checked the guide because it had already become wierd.
It does sound like you managed to break the sequence in an unfortunate way which probably isn't intended. Such bugs are to be expected given how open ended the discovery process of some of the quests are. There are literally a dozen ways to so to approach the murder quest and advance various stages of it. I would say it's impressive that the majority of them actually feel natural in their progression. Sadly it's always possible to do one thing or another unintentionally to make it feel a bit less logical, yes.
If I had re explored the town I would have come across her door again and broken in like I did after checking the guide.
This led me to her hideout. When I went in she was already there despite me having just left her in the medical centre. This makes no sense without the "she left in a hurry" you're meant to get from Theylon.
she left because you're told by an NPC that she left?
Just because you
leave her there doesn't mean she couldn't leave after you and arrive at the location before you, especially as you need to hunt for the way and she knows it.
It does sound like you managed to break the sequence in an unfortunate way which probably isn't intended. Such bugs are to be expected given how open ended the discovery process of some of the quests are. There are literally a dozen ways to so to approach the murder quest and advance various stages of it. I would say it's impressive that the majority of them actually feel natural in their progression. Sadly it's always possible to do one thing or another unintentionally to make it feel a bit less logical, yes.
Theylon is accessory at best, as you find hints about the necessity of searching her house even without talking to him at all, since when she leaves the ambulatory, she leaves behind a backpack with some personal effects that implicitly redirect you to it
I understand your desire to defend this excellent game but it does have design problems.
It does. This isn't one of them.
You claimed yourself that "the Evelyn thing went over your head" and I'm not even sure how that is possible paying any degree to attention, since there are like three different questlines pointing at her sooner or later.
It makes no sense that she left because you're told by an NPC that she left?
Just because you leave her there doesn't mean she couldn't leave after you and arrive at the location before you, especially as you need to hunt for the way and she knows it.
No, he managed to break the quest such that the NPC who wasn't supposed to disappear, did, and the one who was supposed to, didn't. I can see how it happens if you do it out of order in a certain way. It's probably one of the very few loops in that quest line which they didn't write or design some sort of alternate connection, because they didn't expect it.
It doesn't sound broken at all. All he missed was the prompt from Theylon that Evelyn had left in a hurry. If you break into her house and leave before her, then can't you imagine she may have checked her house, found it ransacked, and hurried to the hideout?
I mean, it might be nice if she referenced that once you eventually find her, but it doesn't sound bugged in any way to me.
No, what I don't understand is how Theylon could have left town without him discovering the other location, and why he would leave while Evelyn remained. That sounds like some sort of bug!
4 suspects all the others had dialogue options for asking them about the body. Evelyn did not have an option to ask about it which seemed odd. I think it was broken from there.
Also the guide mentioned the bag she was meant to leave behind but it is not there in my game (probably because she never left). I teleported straight to the waypoint by her hideout from her house but she beat me to it which seemed very wierd, she could have teleported I suppose!
@tuco. I didn't say the thing you put in quotations. I could tell it was
Eve right after speaking to the mortician and the other suspects
No, he managed to break the quest such that the NPC who wasn't supposed to disappear, did, and the one who was supposed to, didn't. I can see how it happens if you do it out of order in a certain way. It's probably one of the very few loops in that quest line which they didn't write or design some sort of alternate connection, because they didn't expect it.
No, what I don't understand is how Theylon could have left town without him discovering the other location, and why he would leave while Evelyn remained. That sounds like some sort of bug!
I was just editing my post to respond to this part, sorry, I'll do it here.
I don't think he broke it.
First, he didn't
push Esmarelda enough to discover evidence to trigger Evelyn to leave
, so instead of exploring more he decided to leave the quest for now.
He explored elsewhere and triggered an event that made
Theylon leave.
(
Evelyn staying doesn't sound wrong, she had no reason to leave at that point because you hadn't discovered her, much like Theylon doesn't leave when you find evidence that points to Evelyn
).
Doing this meant he couldn't persue the previous path, so upon returning to the quest he had no direct leads.
At this point he was aware of the culprits, and having no leads the obvious place to look would be
the locked house of one of the prime suspects.
And arriving at
the hideout and finding Evelyn
even though you
left her at the town
isn't broken either. I mean, is it really
a stretch to reason she found her house ransacked, realised you were aware of the hideout, and hurried there before you (knowing the way she could arrive before you even though she left after)?
This sounds like it's working as intended to me.
Perhaps they could smooth it out by adding references to how you managed to solve it, something like Evelyn saying "I thought all blame had fallen on that fool Tehylon, but then I noticed you'd discovered my lair! Lucky for me I managed to get here before you Source hunter!", that would make everything feel like it slots into place neatly, but I think it still does without the explanation.
Is this recent conversation a little borderline worrisome with regard to early early main quest spoilers (names, things related to names, suchlike) or am I just being oversensitive?
Is this recent conversation a little borderline worrisome with regard to early early main quest spoilers (names, things related to names, suchlike) or am I just being oversensitive?
that made Theylon leave. (Evelyn staying doesn't sound wrong, she had no reason to leave at that point because you hadn't discovered her, much like Theylon doesn't leave when you find evidence that points to Evelyn).
I believe he's only supposed to leave town after you discover his hideout with the evidence pointing to his involvement. Prior to this he has no reason to leave even if you investigate the church, unless something else triggers if you do something differently that I'm not aware of. He said he didn't discover the hideout. That's what I'm confused by. The church only indicates that there is some cult involved in something. Nothing more.
If that really happened, it sounds like something broke!
I believe he's only supposed to leave town after you discover his hideout with the evidence pointing to his involvement. Prior to this he has no reason to leave even if you investigate the church, unless something else triggers if you do something differently that I'm not aware of. He said he didn't discover the hideout. That's what I'm confused by. The church only indicates that there is some cult involved in something. Nothing more.
If that really happened, it sounds like something broke!
Added extra spoiler tags, sorry. Anyone remember if
Evelyn is meant to have a dialogue option to ask her about stealing the body? The only thing she was ever able to say to me was that I broke her stone.
@Duckroll: when I went in the church one of the cultists mention Theylon before they attacked me.
I always try to do side quests before story quests in RPGs so that I dont miss anything. This led me to try and complete the
undead scourge quest before finishing the murder investigation ( I couldn't have known they were linked). It wasn't so much that I missed the clues leading up to that point but more that the quest I was doing jumped me ahead of them straight to finding out Theylon was a naughty chap.
Added extra spoiler tags, sorry. Anyone remember if
Evelyn is meant to have a dialogue option to ask her about stealing the body? The only thing she was ever able to say to me was that I broke her stone.
Added extra spoiler tags, sorry. Anyone remember if
Evelyn is meant to have a dialogue option to ask her about stealing the body? The only thing she was ever able to say to me was that I broke her stone.
@Duckroll: when I went in the church one of the cultists mention Theylon before they attacked me.
In my case I never aggro'd anyone in the church during my investigation because at that point I wasn't high level enough to fight them. If that's the case, then it doesn't really sound broken, because you could follow up on that lead. Is it possible to ask Evelyn anything about Theylon at that point?
Yes but this particular route is definitely more challenging than the normal sequences I can think of!
In particularly it's worth noting that I found his hideout completely by accident while exploring the eastern part of Cyseal. I don't recall any indication from anyone else that he has a house outside of town.
In general though, I think it's pretty amazing that we're even having this debate about the different open ended discovery methods the game has for just one quest. It's really not something most developers even bother with anymore.
In my case I never aggro'd anyone in the church during my investigation because at that point I wasn't high level enough to fight them. If that's the case, then it doesn't really sound broken, because you could follow up on that lead. Is it possible to ask Evelyn anything about Theylon at that point?
Thats when I realised something was wrong, I went back to Eve at the med centre ready to say "I've rumbled you, you body snatching bitch. How do I get to Theylon?" but she just wanted to talk about her stone that I broke. As I edited into my post above: doing the undead scourge quest skips a load of the muder investigation and you find out Theylon is a cultist without following all the clues people here keep talking about. Having discovered he is reponsible you have no option to tell anyone or confront Eve
.
Searching her house is a logical next step if you remember having come across a locked
Evelyns house
when exploring town. I didnt remember so used a guide, it works out in the end but does not make a lot of sense. It also means I have missed a chunk of the murder investigation quest due to choosing a different quest to do first.
Yes but this particular route is definitely more challenging than the normal sequences I can think of!
In particularly it's worth noting that I found his hideout completely by accident while exploring the eastern part of Cyseal. I don't recall any indication from anyone else that he has a house outside of town.
In general though, I think it's pretty amazing that we're even having this debate about the different open ended discovery methods the game has for just one quest. It's really not something most developers even bother with anymore.
Oh yes, it certainly is more challenging if you do things in certain orders. I also found the
hideout
by chance.
I think the
hideout and the trigger at the church
are purposely placed. If you
lose your way during the investigation initially
, and decide to push on elsewhere, they're there to put you back on track with it. I think that's quite clever design.
One thing I would say is that there's no way to question
Evelyn
directly. You can question
Theylon about the murde
r, and
ask him about Evelyn
, but
Evelyn will only discuss the bloodstone
. I think it would be nice to
be able to ask her, even if she says something like "sorry, I have too much on my mind now! I must consider this strange power!" after the bloodstone event
has taken place.
Still, the next logical step
would be to check the other suspects
, and if you're thorough you will
eventually find a way back to Evelyn
.
It's not broken, but it could use a few tiny edits here and there to make it feel like it's all perfectly connected.
Thats when I realised something was wrong, I went back to Eve at the med centre ready to say "I've rumbled you, you body snatching bitch. How do I get to Theylon?" but she just wanted to talk about her stone that I broke. As I edited into my post above: doing the undead scourge quest skips a load of the muder investigation and you find out Theylon is a cultist without following all the clues people here keep talking about. Having discovered he is reponsible you have no option to tell anyone or confront Eve
Searching her house is a logical next step if you remember having come across a locked
Evelyns house
when exploring town. I didnt remember so used a guide, it works out in the end but does not make a lot of sense. It also means I have missed a chunk of the murder investigation quest due to choosing a different quest to do first.
"if you remember". The onus is on you to remember the things you've found, and if not to retrace your steps and find them again. Instead of jumping to a guide you should have explored more. The guide would have confused your further as it would reference things that you couldn't access due to the order you chose.
And of course you miss out aspects of the quest if you do them in certain orders. You could potentially
barge into Evelyn's house
right away and negate the entire thing. This is the blessing and the curse of the open nature of the game. You will very likely miss something if you do something else. That's what multiple playthroughs are for.
I still think it makes sense overall, the only part that could use a tiny edit would be
Evelyn's
dialogue to reference the missing body and then to reference
Theylon
leaving. It wouldn't give anything away but it would connect to the progress you've made.
For my first playthrough I had my main characters as a Sword and Shield Tank and my other as a Cleric who I later turned into a Geomancer. Throughout the game she did a good job at melee, heals, buffs, summons, and poisons. But now I'm going to try an Archer and a Witch for my main characters, two classes I completely avoided last game
I think it should have been set up to let you say something to people after you discover the truth about Theylon, like if you confront Eve she legs it. It really was frustrating to be talking to her/the wizard/the legion boss and not be able to say anything about Theylon which my character obviously would.
I think it should have been set up to let you say something to people after you discover the truth about Theylon, like if you confront Eve she legs it. It really was frustrating to be talking to her/the wizard/the legion boss and not be able to say anything about Theylon which my character obviously would.
Agreed. I'm going to write something up and make a suggestion to Larian. It wouldn't take much, just a few edits to the dialogue to make it all connect together nicely.
"if you remember". The onus is on you to remember the things you've found, and if not to retrace your steps and find them again. Instead of jumping to a guide you should have explored more. The guide would have confused your further as it would reference things that you couldn't access due to the order you chose.
And of course you miss out aspects of the quest if you do them in certain orders. You could potentially
barge into Evelyn's house
right away and negate the entire thing. This is the blessing and the curse of the open nature of the game. You will very likely miss something if you do something else. That's what multiple playthroughs are for.
I still think it makes sense overall, the only part that could use a tiny edit would be
Evelyn's
dialogue to reference the missing body and then to reference
Theylon
leaving. It wouldn't give anything away but it would connect to the progress you've made.
If I had not looked up how it was meant to work I would be left thinking the plot was really badly put together. Playing it through the way I did made it really silly and obtuse. Now I know that there was a nice logical progression to be enjoyed by players not "stupid" enough to do the "wrong" quest first I feel slightly better about it.
If I had not looked up how it was meant to work I would be left thinking the plot was really badly put together. Playing it through the way I did made it really silly and obtuse. Now I know that there was a nice logical progression to be enjoyed by players not "stupid" enough to do the "wrong" quest first I feel slightly better about it.
Agreed! One of the first things I loved about this game was the not really knowing where to go feeling. You go into a mindset where you look at the game and it's world in a different way, a much more interesting way.
Any tips on buffing my rogue? I typically go invisible at the beginning of the fight and make my way behind the enemies (or to their healer/mage), wait for the melee enemies to come towards the rest of my party (preferably Madora), then backstab the shit out of the healer/mage. But then usually a turn or so later I'm getting hammered because she's so squishy. I never feel like I'm doing enough damage, even with backstab criticals.
For reference, I'm still early on, level 6, still wandering around the outskirts of the Cyseal area.
I guess we are getting close to the end we just finished
the forest spirit quest where you fight the demon boss in the shack basement and then free the spirit
I feel like playing divinity 2 after that (I got director cut on Steam) I played this when it was released a few years back was not very impressed, should I give it another chance ?
I guess we are getting close to the end we just finished
the forest spirit quest where you fight the demon boss in the shack basement and then free the spirit
I feel like playing divinity 2 after that (I got director cut on Steam) I played this when it was released a few years back was not very impressed, should I give it another chance ?
I guess we are getting close to the end we just finished
the forest spirit quest where you fight the demon boss in the shack basement and then free the spirit
I feel like playing divinity 2 after that (I got director cut on Steam) I played this when it was released a few years back was not very impressed, should I give it another chance ?
ok I'm starting the game. Reading the thread now I realize I've got suboptimal classes (Rogue and Wayfarer). I don't really care about that but I'm wondering:
1) If it makes sense to fill my inventory with items that aren't rare quality like random swords. With rogue pickpocket and sneaking there are a ridiculous amount of items in the world so far
2) Are there vendors that will buy all this crap and is it enough to justify picking up anything that isn't tied down?
3) Once you learn from a book can you just drop it? I'm confused about what is worth keeping.
ok I'm starting the game. Reading the thread now I realize I've got suboptimal classes (Rogue and Wayfarer). I don't really care about that but I'm wondering:
1) If it makes sense to fill my inventory with items that aren't rare quality like random swords. With rogue pickpocket and sneaking there are a ridiculous amount of items in the world so far
2) Are there vendors that will buy all this crap and is it enough to justify picking up anything that isn't tied down?
3) Once you learn from a book can you just drop it? I'm confused about what is worth keeping.
1. For weapons they don't seem to sell for much. Armor does, though. I've made a decent chunk of change just selling all of the Old Mails I've found.
2. Tons of stuff is worth selling, a lot isn't. Pictures are great to sell, for instance. Shells aren't. You'll figure it out easily enough.
3. Yep, go ahead and drop it (or sell it. It's not much, but hey, money).
ok I'm starting the game. Reading the thread now I realize I've got suboptimal classes (Rogue and Wayfarer). I don't really care about that but I'm wondering:
1) If it makes sense to fill my inventory with items that aren't rare quality like random swords. With rogue pickpocket and sneaking there are a ridiculous amount of items in the world so far
2) Are there vendors that will buy all this crap and is it enough to justify picking up anything that isn't tied down?
3) Once you learn from a book can you just drop it? I'm confused about what is worth keeping.
You can get rid of books once you've read them. Any note can be used in crafting, so it might be worth keeping those.
You can trade with pretty much any NPC. The icon under their portrait on the left hand side of the dialogue window. Most won't have much to trade with, but each town will have dedicated traders or NPCs who have certain fixed stock types. They'll buy anything you have except fixed quest items.
It's worth taking everything you can and selling it. you have a lot of inventory space, and pass by traders often.
I left the quest because I wanted to do side quests first.
I found
Theylon crippled behind a force field.
.
Went back to town to speak to related NPCs but my character didn't feel it was worth mentioning to anyone. This is where it is silly.
I have to break into
Eves house
. This is where it is obtuse. I dont know she has a house (I passed it much earlier before I knew who she was) and up to this point have not touched any red doors/boxes as I'm an honest sort.
Finding the house is kind of reasonable although in the normal course of events you are directed there so you would not have to. The lack of dialogue options is very silly.
Ok, so you chose to go elsewhere before finishing, discovered new information, therefore you put yourself in the position where you had to complete the investigation in a different order. The game allowed you to do this, which is a great thing!
There are plenty more times where the game leaves you alone to explore and find stuff without telling you explicitly where to go, just warning you now.
A few hrs in and have a few questions:
Where can I find an identify glass in the first town? Havent found anyone who sells them.
Also does breaking open a chest destroy any loot as opposed to picking the lock?
Are any of the defensive skills worth it for a mage or ranger character?
A few hrs in and have a few questions:
Where can I find an identify glass in the first town? Havent found anyone who sells them.
Also does breaking open a chest destroy any loot as opposed to picking the lock?
Are any of the defensive skills worth it for a mage or ranger character?
A few hrs in and have a few questions:
Where can I find an identify glass in the first town? Havent found anyone who sells them.
Also does breaking open a chest destroy any loot as opposed to picking the lock?
Are any of the defensive skills worth it for a mage or ranger character?
Pretty sure you can get an ID glass from the lady that sell water spell and potions at the market place or check Ahru (the cat mage) I think I got mine from him .
Breaking chest doesn't break loot inside
A few hrs in and have a few questions:
Where can I find an identify glass in the first town? Havent found anyone who sells them.
Also does breaking open a chest destroy any loot as opposed to picking the lock?
Are any of the defensive skills worth it for a mage or ranger character?
I've found a couple of them in a chest. I'd just pay for vendor IDing until you do, because they're expensive. Then again, I'm trying to play the game as a non-thief so I don't have as much cash as most.
The ranger defensive that extracts you from combat (by jumping), I've found to be very useful.
Where can I find some more Magical Unlock scrolls? My co-op partner used the one found in Ahru's room on a normal chest earlier in the game and there is magically locked chest that I want to open now. We had no idea these scrolls would be required for certain chests.
I agree with some of the complaints. Luckily the dual dialogues can be set off, and I didn't care that most things talked or that gravestones were narrated. The pixel hunts and lack of engaging boss encounters after Braccus are things I agree with. He talks about later areas being more bereft of quests which I also agree, though luckily Hunter's Edge has plenty going for it and it was my first time really double checking my journal and dialogues since Cyseal..
But yeah, he really didn't seem to care for the whimsy of the world. Unfortunate.
Well yes, everyone has the right to his own opinion, but i would like to know, if someone did heard about this site before this review? Because for me this is the 1x, and already Metacritits and Gamerankings have this review with the other ones..
