ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Besides the fact you should never link that site here, DmC was released on the 15th of January.
Chartz hasn't even put their fake data up yet for launch week.
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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
Besides the fact you should never link that site here, DmC was released on the 15th of January.
Chartz hasn't even put their fake data up yet for launch week.
Because they say they are estimates. Which they are. They are not lying.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I personally don't think they falsify they data, but rather use a representaive example to make rough estimates.
still, it's not hard data and can be hugely misleading. It's not worth taking any stock in what's on that site.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
ChartZ are banned because of their 'estimates', which do not accurately represent the sales market. Given the tendency for heated discussion about sales here on NeoGAF, it's important that sales data being as accurately as humanly possible. Otherwise you have people saying Game Y sold X, sourcing ChartZ, and it is factually inaccurate because ChartZ does not have sourced, accurate numbers. They've been so off the mark with data in the past that they cannot be relied on, so we don't allow their numbers to be discussed when talking about sales, as it just leads to misinformation.
So yeah, don't post ChartZ numbers or you'll likely cop a whack from the ban hammer. If you didn't know this was a rule, it's probably wise to head over to the FAQ forum from the front page and double check the ToS and banned sites/topics/memes threads.
So yeah, don't post ChartZ numbers or you'll likely cop a whack from the ban hammer. If you didn't know this was a rule, it's probably wise to head over to the FAQ forum from the front page and double check the ToS and banned sites/topics/memes threads.
Omg, this looks absolutely AWFUL!
What a total step back in every respect, that shadow clone just sitting there is the junkiest looking thing I've ever seen.
I can't believe people are comparing this to DMC4 and saying it's better. Unbelievable!
I am pretty sure that DmC is more than a single bossfight. DmC indeed is better than DMC4 in many, many aspects. Combat depth and bossfights is not one of those, of course.
Nemesis_
Member
The combat is fine, but significantly streamlined from it's predecessors.
A good analogy that I realised was somewhat true recently was that the jump from DMC4 to DmC is almost like the jump from MvsC2 to MvsC3.
They basically made it more accessible and easier to play.
But I guess MvsC3 hasn't been the cruel target for vitriol as much as DmC has.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Would this not pretty eloquently indicate the combat scoring system is fundamentally broken then? And if the arcade, skill driven scoring system is one of the strongest attractions to the genre (just as it was for Devil May Cry and Bayonetta), then this would be a pretty noteworthy negative towards DmC?
Sounds like something they could surely patch though, if it's just the way the scoring system is coded.
Ok, makes sense. I read over the TOS and FAQ about banned sites so hopefully this falls in line. (I only saw VG listed as a banned site. Are there more listed somewhere else?)
According to this report DmC debuted at number one on the charts in the UK however it also states "The retail monitor said DmC sold over a third of what Devil May Cry 4 did at launch when it also hit the top spot in week six of 2008". When I tried looking up the numbers DMC 4 did in its first week I found only a reference on Gamasutra which said it had done well during the second week of February but it didn't list any particular units sold just a percentage breakdown between units moved between consoles. The other source was listed in an older GAF thread here which has a combined total of around 245,000 but it's not exclusive to the UK (It actually lists the week before the UK release so I think it's Japan only.)
Does anyone happen to know the exact number DMC 4 did its first week in the UK? That would help since I keep seeing the 1/3 statistic listed for sales in relation to DmC.
Nemesis_
Member
I've repeated this multiple times throughout the thread, but you are correct. The ranking system is very, very broken.
For example - if I were to find all the collectibles in a mission, then I get an SSS rank for "completion" in the level. Considering three factors (plus deaths and item use) are used in calculating your final ranking, completion contributes an automatic SSS rank for the remainder of your game.
It's artificially jacks up your score - leading to situations where I didn't even see a rank below SS during my first playthrough on "Hard" difficulty. This shouldn't really happen on a first playthrough of a DMC game, if you ask me.
That is not fundamentally broken, only if someone ignores the actual points below that fancy little letter. Basically, in this game, the scores matter, because the threshhold for "SSS" ranking is VERY low in every fight. You can still be stylish, you can still earn points with varied and well-though out combos, but that one single letter (or 3, in case of SSS) will no longer solely represent what you do.
Kinda like with Bayonetta*. I am glad that it omitted that lettering, and only uses scores instead. To determine whether someone plays stylishly there, one would actually have to look at the moves being performed and the score instead of just staring at that letter.
*Except that Bayonetta's scoring is way more professional, non-broken and awesome, ofc
Nemesis_
Member
That is not fundamentally broken, only if someone ignores the actual points below that fancy little letter. Basically, in this game, the scores matter, because the threshhold for "SSS" ranking is VERY low in every fight. You can still be stylish, you can still earn points with varied and well-though out combos, but that one single letter (or 3, in case of SSS) will no longer solely represent what you do.
Kinda like with Bayonetta*. I am glad that it omitted that lettering, and only uses scores instead. To determine whether someone plays stylishly there, one would actually have to look at the moves being performed and the score instead of just staring at that letter.
*Except that Bayonetta's scoring is way more professional, non-broken and awesome, ofc
Bayonetta uses a ranking system still though, they just replace the letters with precious metals.
No one knows. That's the problem.
I know, but they at least do not just compress it into one letter during the fight. Also, for the first 10-20 hours in DmC, my mind alway said "Fuck, you got hit, time to restart the level" when I was clearing for all SSS nephilim - when in reality, that does not even matter here. Which is actually sad.
Then why the hell do you even play ACTION games? Jesus, the platforming looks like complete whatever town!
Just play Uncharted then, it looks better and it does that kind of stuff more convincingly. I just don't get this argument, the combat and boss fights are 90% of what these games are about!
Same reason people can criticize DmC for its presentation "issues" I guess. I mean, the majority of crying about DmC has been about the way Dante looks and acts.
I've seen others say this as well but I feel like it's an unfair misrepresentation of the core problems people have had with this reinterpretation (At this point I don't know what they are officially calling it anymore; reboot, prequel, spin-off, ect..) of the DMC universe. Most people I've seen complaining, while they do list appearance and attitude of the protagonist, have a laundry list of much larger issues they find at fault. I feel like people are easily dismissing the outcry by fans by trying to diminish it with this counterclaim that they are being vapid in how they take umbrage with it.
Funchameleon
Banned
He said combat depth, not enjoyability.
You would have a point of there would be only two options in the gameplay department. Which is SSS and UTTER PURE SHIT.
SSS, SS, S and hell, even A tier of action games are greatly enjoyable my puny, pathetic type. If you only eat dat glorious "best of the best" and refuse to touch anything else, go for it. Replay DMC4 Castle once more, it surely feels better than DmC!
(Not for me )I do not play Uncharted. Not enough interesting gameplay in there for my taste.
DarknessTear
Banned
The majority of the issues for people who HAVE played the game are the story, characters and music. It has good gameplay and environments. It's not just the way Dante looks.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I definitely think a main point was a definite separation of two groups for people who aren't really into the reboot. There is definitely a portion of people who don't like the new aesthetics and the redesigns of the characters. Then there is a section of people who didn't like it because NT is an incompetent developer. Of course there are people who are in both camps.
Personally when I first saw the trailer I was like "well this is kind of different I guess to say the least". Than it turned into "this doesn't seem like something Capcom internal would do". Then I saw Ninja Theory's logo and I said "this is going to be shit, fuck this game". Personally I don't really care about the Alice / El Shaddai level style or the character redesigns too much. I mean I prefer the weird gothic castle aesthetics and the older designs but it was never a dealbreaker. Ninja Theory was the dealbreaker.
I believe that in the long term this game will probably be regarded as a middling reboot. I still have not played the game (and won't until I can get it for under 5$ USD) but just judging from videos it looks like the scoring system is pretty much broken. The bosses have already proven to be completely worthless, the platforming will be boring as fuck on constant replays. Nothing about the game seems as ferociously tuned for mastery and replaying like the older games. I am sure there is some fun to get out of it but it doesn't offer the meticulously designed scoring of 3/4 or hard level progression of previous games (to varying degrees in the DMC games of course) and other action games. Also it just seems to be much buggier than previous games (which I assume they will patch some of that stuff).
Personally when I first saw the trailer I was like "well this is kind of different I guess to say the least". Than it turned into "this doesn't seem like something Capcom internal would do". Then I saw Ninja Theory's logo and I said "this is going to be shit, fuck this game". Personally I don't really care about the Alice / El Shaddai level style or the character redesigns too much. I mean I prefer the weird gothic castle aesthetics and the older designs but it was never a dealbreaker. Ninja Theory was the dealbreaker.
I believe that in the long term this game will probably be regarded as a middling reboot. I still have not played the game (and won't until I can get it for under 5$ USD) but just judging from videos it looks like the scoring system is pretty much broken. The bosses have already proven to be completely worthless, the platforming will be boring as fuck on constant replays. Nothing about the game seems as ferociously tuned for mastery and replaying like the older games. I am sure there is some fun to get out of it but it doesn't offer the meticulously designed scoring of 3/4 or hard level progression of previous games (to varying degrees in the DMC games of course) and other action games. Also it just seems to be much buggier than previous games (which I assume they will patch some of that stuff).
No doubt there are other issues, but it's easy to see their complaints are being misrepresented. After all, they did start complaining, and complained the loudest, before they got their hands on the game. It's a bit like crying wolf. No one's going to take the actual complaints as seriously now when even news media has picked up on the (somewhat funny) fan outrage over presentation issues, because they can easily dismiss criticism in one big swoop. "If they're getting panties in a bunch over the color of Dante's hair, then why should we care about any other complaint they have?"
AcceptableGhost
Member
Also for a bunch of reviewers it seems like this is almost their first action game or something? It is strange seeing reviewers for once in the history of mankind actually mention that a game has remixed higher difficulties and such. Interesting to see people exclaiming about features that have been in previous games (and done better in previous games) and or are genre staples, maybe Capcom sent out a pamphlet or something.
That's true. I can remember how people initially reacted to the first trailer and the new look and attitude of Dante. However at the time it was all they had to go on so their criticism had to be contained to just the aesthetic presentation of the world and protagonist. As time went on though and more information, a demo, and finally the game itself was released that criticism grew from simply the look of the game, protog, and its setting and music to gameplay, structure, enemy type and placement, style system, and difficulty. I don't know though if it's completely unfair to judge a reboot of something simply based off an initial reaction to its presentation. There are cases where all it takes is just one look to make up your mind. Case in point:
witchedwiz
Member
so..
in a combat game the combat depth and bossfights being shallower then another game in the serie, don't make the game inferior to the latter?
sounds legit.....
You would have a point of there would be only two options in the gameplay department. Which is SSS and UTTER PURE SHIT.
SSS, SS, S and hell, even A tier of action games are greatly enjoyable my puny, pathetic type. If you only eat dat glorious "best of the best" and refuse to touch anything else, go for it. Replay DMC4 Castle once more, it surely feels better than DmC!
I do not play Uncharted. Not enough interesting gameplay in there for my taste.
I get that this game is more enjoyable than something like Dante's Inferno but I guess it just blows my mind that people can compare this game positively to 1-3-4 in a general sense.
There's just such a lack of craftsmanship here, such a lack of style and precision, I guess most people just don't see these things. This game just rubs me the wrong way, total lack of polish and amateurish mistakes left and right, It's depressing to me to see that one of the last great action game series has gone in this direction.
But seriously though, do people not see the junky projectiles that Vergil uses in that fight? Do they not see the GIGANTIC downgrade compared to DMC3 Vergil fights? It feels like a student project or something really unpolished and thrown together to me, like one of the youtube fan videos of a guy learning animation. A bad copy that misses the point basically.
It's cool that people find it fun in it's own way but to see it being held up as the new standard all over the media and on this forum by some questionable people is really crazy imo. If this is the new standard than I really don't know what to say....
JoeFenix: Big words, but DmC is not pronounced as a new standard or the new top of the genre. No need to pretend otherwise in order to draw insane amounts of disappointment, pathos and rage at the same time. The problems with the game are clearly understood and articulated as well.
It would, however DO WELL for DMC as a series to hold onto SOME of the aspects of this game as a true new standard. In an ideal world - for me, anyway - true DMC5 would feature no bactracking, a level variety that is similar to what is in DmC (insane variety, basically.), bold color choices (not copying DmC, but being at least that daring in that aspect), and maybe, just maybe free camera and a platforming that is actually fun to do this time. Although I understand that I am in the minority who enjoys replaying the platforming sequences in the game
I just do not understand why it has to be black and white. Either GodMade or UtterShit. Why? Why cant some parts of this game actually be recognized as clearly great and something to hold on to? Is it that threatening in other aspects? I do not think that anyone at Ninja Theory or at Capcom actually thinks that the combat system in DmC is superior to DMC4/DMC3 and should be "kept" as the new standard. If you think that, I would not want to share that worldview, as I deem it too pessimistic or fear-based...
It would, however DO WELL for DMC as a series to hold onto SOME of the aspects of this game as a true new standard. In an ideal world - for me, anyway - true DMC5 would feature no bactracking, a level variety that is similar to what is in DmC (insane variety, basically.), bold color choices (not copying DmC, but being at least that daring in that aspect), and maybe, just maybe free camera and a platforming that is actually fun to do this time. Although I understand that I am in the minority who enjoys replaying the platforming sequences in the game
I just do not understand why it has to be black and white. Either GodMade or UtterShit. Why? Why cant some parts of this game actually be recognized as clearly great and something to hold on to? Is it that threatening in other aspects? I do not think that anyone at Ninja Theory or at Capcom actually thinks that the combat system in DmC is superior to DMC4/DMC3 and should be "kept" as the new standard. If you think that, I would not want to share that worldview, as I deem it too pessimistic or fear-based...
JoeFenix: Big words, but DmC is not pronounced as a new standard or the new top of the genre. No need to pretend otherwise in order to draw insane amounts of disappointment, pathos and rage at the same time. The problems with the game are clearly understood and articulated as well.
It would, however DO WELL for DMC as a series to hold onto SOME of the aspects of this game as a true new standard. In an ideal world - for me, anyway - true DMC5 would feature no bactracking, a level variety that is similar to what is in DmC (insane variety, basically.), bold color choices (not copying DmC, but being at least that daring in that aspect), and maybe, just maybe free camera and a platforming that is actually fun to do this time. Although I understand that I am in the minority who enjoys replaying the platforming sequences in the game
I just do not understand why it has to be black and white. Either GodMade or UtterShit. Why? Why cant some parts of this game actually be recognized as clearly great and something to hold on to? Is it that threatening in other aspects? I do not think that anyone at Ninja Theory or at Capcom actually thinks that the combat system in DmC is superior to DMC4/DMC3 and should be "kept" as the new standard. If you think that, I would not want to share that worldview, as I deem it too pessimistic or fear-based...
This game has been held up in the media as the way forward, the new standard or direction that was needed for the franchise. It's been ALL over the place, we even have incredibly stupid articles written by journalists saying that fans are crazy for complaining and that they're just whining about the hair. It's not like I'm making this up, most mainstream people seem to really think this is a better game than past DMCs.
You seem to think that this is some kind of experiment and that we'll get a DMC5 made internally, one that implements the best parts of DmC and the best of old DMC. Yeah right! They've already said that they're holding on to Ninja Theory, unless sales are bad this is what we're getting from now on. And you know what, I actually like the backtracking in DMC games, I would much rather see them improve the environment design than to dumb it down and make linear corridors instead. The castle in DMC4 had alot of potential.
I can have alot of fun with lower tier games, I actually really miss the B tier actions games of the PS2 era, I'd take something like Shinobi or Nightshade over this mess any day of the week. Atleast those games are usually classy and polished, they don't run on an engine that feels like it's barely holding together either.
Just what does this game bring to the table exactly? The ranking/style system is a joke, that drive to push yourself further is just non-existent. I've actually heard alot of reviews and PR videos that call the combat system an upgrade. It's just embarrassing and I think time will not be kind to this game at all.
That's hardly surprising. This is January, nothing comes out.
witchedwiz
Member
personal opinion but what was wrong in dmc4 was:
1) nero was shallow.... sure the magic hand! whoo! yet the most profound feature, aka the trigger, was just thrown in for the heck of it in the tutorial and soon forgotten... at least dante was fun and variageted, if only a bit too op in some stance/weapon combination..
2) backtracking... seriously? backtracking a level is fine, 2 is tedious.. half game backtracking? plainly stupid..
3) more variety
so if dmc fixed those without breaking anything i'd be an happy dawg.. but the opinions on this matter seem really divided atm..
1) nero was shallow.... sure the magic hand! whoo! yet the most profound feature, aka the trigger, was just thrown in for the heck of it in the tutorial and soon forgotten... at least dante was fun and variageted, if only a bit too op in some stance/weapon combination..
2) backtracking... seriously? backtracking a level is fine, 2 is tedious.. half game backtracking? plainly stupid..
3) more variety
so if dmc fixed those without breaking anything i'd be an happy dawg.. but the opinions on this matter seem really divided atm..
The fuck?
You dismiss what it actually brings to the table, and then ask this. According to you, DMC does not need varied environments, no backtrack, actually fun platforming instead of unfun platforming, it does not need any of those.
DmC does not contain "linear corridors" only. It has some of those, yes. Like ANY other game. Any. Except for Minecraft, before you actually craft a LINEAR CORRIDOR! There are great spaces to move through, with plenty of free, open spaces. I have a feeling that you did not even play through this game, but okay.
The dumbest of reviews that call this game superior in combat, and vitriol-filled spits on the DMC fanbases should be discarded for what they are - but there is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water...
Dude Nero alone has more depth with Exceed system than anything in DmC. To truly master it you need to basically "Just Frame" every move that you do.
Nero was fun as shit to play, I would have actually been happy if they gave him a couple of other weapons and focused the game on him only. The Devil bringer brought so much hype and energy to the game, grabbing a boss by the head and slamming him down was glorious. Some of the animations for DB grabs were just fucking incredible.
The game should have removed some of the backtracking and should have explained the exceed system better but it was still really good. So many cool bosses, so many stylish over the top action scenes. Bloody Palace is glorious, getting S ranks was really fun and the game rewarded true mastery with no dmg bonuses.
It was a damn fine action game.
DMC 4 is piss easy to fix. They should have never added Dante to the campaign. He should have been an unlockable bonus mode, that allowed you to play through what ended up being his campaign and included cutscenes.
And add some fucking DT boss finishers for Dante while you're at it.
That's it, there. DMC 4 is fixed.
And add some fucking DT boss finishers for Dante while you're at it.
That's it, there. DMC 4 is fixed.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
This game is fantastic. I was lukewarm coming in after the demo and liking DMC4 well enough, but I ended up playing 5 hours yesterday and didn't want to stop.
I can get why people want the "old" DMC back, but I love the new direction. Ninja Theory has a way with characters that's for sure.
Hopefully this is a situation where NT gets to make another one of these and the "old" DMC gets a new game so everyone wins.
I can get why people want the "old" DMC back, but I love the new direction. Ninja Theory has a way with characters that's for sure.
Hopefully this is a situation where NT gets to make another one of these and the "old" DMC gets a new game so everyone wins.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
So depth is making things... easier to get right with no effort or learning curve. I see. The FEEL of DEPTH.
2/3rds of DMC4's UK purchasers response to DmC: Not in a million years :]
Try the new DmC, you might really like it!
Two Devil May Cry game with half sell for the "old" one and another half for the "new" one with two AAA budget game?
Not worth the money for Capcom
I'm not some kind of Savant or anything and I could Just Frame most of his moves consistently.
It's not THAT hard! Certainly VERY useable. Not to mention incredibly fun and rewarding!
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