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[BigWeather]

We [mostly] all agree Bernie is no threat. So why would it matter what Hillary said? High road or not? It just doesn't matter because she's getting the nom.

Yeah, she's getting the nom -- but she needs as many of Bernie's supporters as possible to ensure election.

 

[Piecake]

They released the usernames that accessed the data and that one guy said 3 of them were his. And once data is insecure, they could have a billion copies of it, this whole 'return the data' thing makes it seem like it's a physical commodity. There's nothing that can be done.

So what you're saying is you agree with the lockout as a form of punishment, even though the contract clearly states they can't do that?

Don't put words in my mouth. You said he took responsibility and he didnt. I am saying that is something they could have said and done in the beginning even if giving back the data, etc., was impossible. That would have been taking responsibility.

Instead, he tried to use the incident for his own political purpose and tap into the whole Bernie being trampled by the man/conspiracy theory narrative that seems somewhat common with Bernie Supporters. What he did was damage control after information revealed that members of his campaign stole data that is apparently worth millions.

And are you really taking a thief's word that 3 of the 4 accounts were his?

 

[CDX]

You missing the fact that they cannot stop Sanders campaign's access without a 10 day written notice.

You Sanders people keep mentioning that 10 day thing but then for some reason never seem to mention this

The DNC agrees that it shall take all measures necessary to protect the secrecy of, and to avoid disclosure and unauthorized use of the Confidential Information.

 

[B-Dubs]

They took responsibility, but it's not the DNC's place to lock them out of their voter database unless doing so presents a threat to Hillary's data.

Since that's not the case, locking them out is a punitive farce. If damage was done, damage was done, not letting them see their own data serves no purpose.

That's not what I was talking about though. I was talking about Hillary's camp having a right to be mad at Sanders's camp fundraising over this when it was Hillary's camp that was wronged in this.

I dunno, man. The entire point is that Hillary's team is supposed to be the one that's good at this. Pushing hard on this is a political misstep and I want them to do the smart thing no matter how mad they might be.

I suppose. So long as they don't push too hard I think it's OK to be a little mad about Sanders's raising money off it though.

 

[Monocle]

I wouldn't vote for someone based on their gender - that's sexism.

Guess I was racist for thinking Obama's race was a decent selling point for his presidency (after giving due consideration to his platform, political leanings, and qualifications).

 

[Arkeband]

Don't put words in my mouth. You said he took responsibility and he didnt. I am saying that is something they could have said and done in the beginning even if it was impossible. That would have been taking responsibility.

Instead, he tried to use the incident for his own political purpose and tap into the whole Bernie being trampled by the man/conspiracy theory narrative that seems somewhat common with Bernie Supporters. What he did was damage control after information revealed that members of his campaign stole data that is apparently worth millions.

And are you really taking a thief's word that 3 of the 4 accounts were his?

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm pointing out how eloquently you're dancing around the fact that the DNC, by contract, needs to give them a ten day grace period before locking them out of the system. Whether it was intentional or not, which we'll never know because apparently you don't trust the thief (but do trust him about the saving part, I guess you can pick and choose which parts to believe), this thread is about the suspension. They cannot immediately suspend their logins.

 

[noshten]

You Sanders people keep mentioning that 10 day thing but then for some reason never seem to mention this

If the issue was addressed by the vendor than I don't see what you are talking about. It's not Sander's campaign actual responsibility to keep that data secure. That's up to the vendor and DNC.

 

[Piecake]

I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm pointing out how eloquently you're dancing around the fact that the DNC, by contract, needs to give them a ten day grace period before locking them out of the system. Whether it was intentional or not, which we'll never know because apparently you don't trust the thief (but do trust him about the saving part, I guess you can pick and choose which parts to believe), this thread is about the suspension. They cannot immediately suspend their logins.

I am not dancing around shit since I never even brought up the issue. I specifically responded to your point about responsibility. You were the one who brought it up because you are simply trying to spin this story to put Bernie in the best light possible and the DNC in the worst light possible. Do I agree with the DNC? No, but to say that Bernie took responsibility and is now the victim here is laughable.

And someone would have to be a fucking idiot to think that the theft was not intentional. They clearly targeted data that would be relevant to the upcoming campaign to download. You don't 'unintentionally' do that.

 

[Arkeband]

I am not dancing around shit since I never even brought up the issue. I specifically responded to your point about responsibility. You were the one who brought it up because you are simply trying to spin this story to put Bernie in the best light possible and the DNC in the worst light possible. Do I agree with the DNC? No, but to say that Bernie took responsibility and is now the victim here is laughable.

And someone would have to be a fucking idiot to think that the theft was not intentional. They clearly targeted data that would be relevant to the upcoming campaign to download. You don't 'unintentionally' do that.

What is your specific criteria for taking responsibility, beyond what they've already done?

 

[B-Dubs]

What is your specific criteria for taking responsibility, beyond what they've already done?

Actually admitting what they've done and not shifting blame to the DNC. The guy who got fired was on MSNBC saying how he had saved a bunch of data, literally an hour after the Sanders press conference where they said that they didn't save the data. Admit you fucked up, say it's been taken care of, that it won't happen again, and apologize. That's what taking responsibility looks like and that's not what they did.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

You Sanders people keep mentioning that 10 day thing but then for some reason never seem to mention this

The DNC agrees that it shall take all measures necessary to protect the secrecy of, and to avoid disclosure and unauthorized use of the Confidential Information.

I think that's because that's actually an obligation (i.e. "the DNC are on the hook for securing this data"), not like, a grant of powers ("the DNC are allowed to break this contract and/or laws if they feel like they need to to secure the data"). It's an obligation that they failed to meet, and I feel like they should be called out for it, but it's a distraction from the issue at hand.

Also, if the bug has been fixed, then why would they need to lock anybody out? And if they're super paranoid (i.e. understandably not confident in their own shitty software), why not at least give the Sanders campaign a dump of its own data, so they can continue to run their campaign while they're sorting this out?

 

[Dude Abides]

Taking the high road is when you don't lower yourself to respond to some petty insult. Ignoring or downplaying when another party steals important data that is apparently worth millions of dollars just makes you look weak and will look very bad in the general election.

"If you arent willing to stand up to cyber theft from your own party, why should we expect you to stand up to the Chinese/whoever when they are caught in a cyber attack?" - Republican candidate.

No it doesn't. It makes you look thin-skinned and combative over a trifle.

 

[B-Dubs]

I think that's because that's actually an obligation (i.e. "the DNC are on the hook for securing this data"), not like, a grant of powers ("the DNC are allowed to break this contract and/or laws if they feel like they need to to secure the data").

Also, if the bug has been fixed, then why would they need to lock anybody out? And if they're super paranoid (i.e. understandably not confident in their own shitty software), why not at least give the Sanders campaign a dump of its own data, so they can continue to run their campaign while they're sorting this out?

Well, according to the NYTimes Sanders is getting access back tomorrow morning. All totaled he missed out on the data for one day, which seems more than fair to them considering what they did.

 

[Arkeband]

I think that's because that's actually an obligation (i.e. "the DNC are on the hook for securing this data"), not like, a grant of powers ("the DNC are allowed to break this contract and/or laws if they feel like they need to to secure the data").

Also, if the bug has been fixed, then why would they need to lock anybody out? And if they're super paranoid (i.e. understandably not confident in their own shitty software), why not at least give the Sanders campaign a dump of its own data, so they can continue to run their campaign while they're sorting this out?

Because it's a bullshit punishment, which is why even the vice-chair of the DNC is saying it should be re-instated.

 

[noshten]

Because it's a bullshit punishment, which is why even the vice-chair of the DNC is saying it should be re-instated.

You gotta keep in mind you arguing with people who have said this is Watergate 2.0, be gentle with them.

 

[Foffy]

You gotta keep in mind you arguing with people who have said this is Watergate 2.0, be gentle with them.

Didn't that have material worth a shit in regards of taking and/or keeping secret? This is genuinely peanuts to that.

This was pleb tier data theft by people acting with exploitation in mind. True for politics, but pretty bad it is coming from a camp that talks against that shit.

 

[Piecake]

What is your specific criteria for taking responsibility, beyond what they've already done?

Actually admitting what they've done and not shifting blame to the DNC. The guy who got fired was on MSNBC saying how he had saved a bunch of data, literally an hour after the Sanders press conference where they said that they didn't save the data. Admit you fucked up, say it's been taken care of, that it won't happen again, and apologize. That's what taking responsibility looks like and that's not what they did.

Yup, I really don't understand how anyone can see this as anything but an attempt to score political points and damage control.

Just in case you are wondering Arkeband, that does not preclude someone to think that the DNC was out of line in their punishment.

No it doesn't. It makes you look thin-skinned and combative over a trifle.

Where do you live? I wouldnt mind helping myself to some of your property.

 

[cocopuffs]

I'm not even American but I've been following the election stuff from the side-lines, and honestly I would much rather see Sanders in the White House than Clinton. I've watched the debates and to both of them talk and honestly Clinton seems incredibly flip-floppy on the issues and really doesn't have much of a strong opinion on anything.

Sanders comes across as really genuine and even that notwithstanding, a lot of his policy proposals and ideas make sense. For one of/the oldest candidate, he seems to be the most in touch of the bunch.

 

[The Lamonster]

The debate is going to be pretty fun now.

 

[Indicate]

Aides to Bernie Sanders say they've reached a deal with the DNC that will allow them to regain access to their voter files on Saturday.

Success

Edit: beaten by B-Dubs

 

[Foffy]

Yup, I really don't understand how anyone can see this as anything but an attempt to score political points and damage control.

Just in case you are wondering Arkeband, that does not preclude someone to think that the DNC was out of line in their punishment.



Where do you live? I wouldnt mind helping myself to some of your property.

Ownership itself is an illusion. Do you want to share a hectare with me?

I get what you mean, in this culture and all.

 

[Piecake]

Ownership itself is an illusion. Do you want to share a hectare with me?

No, I am determined to fight against The Bern's Communist/socialist revolution.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

Well, according to the NYTimes Sanders is getting access back tomorrow morning. All totaled he missed out on the data for one day, which seems more than fair to them considering what they did.

That's good news. I'm guessing everybody wants to move past this as soon as possible. Even if they had access to the data today I can't imagine they'd have been able to get much work done with this going on.

Because it's a bullshit punishment, which is why even the vice-chair of the DNC is saying it should be re-instated.

Yup :/ That's definitely how it felt, at least. Hopefully this solution will let both sides back down and save face. I don't want any of this noise following us into the general.

 

[danm999]

Success

Good, this has gone on long enough.

 

[Foffy]

No, I am determined to fight against The Bern's Communist/socialist revolution.

Pfft, jokes on you. I was promoting naturalism.

You can play your game.

 

[dramatis]

Yup :/ That's definitely how it felt, at least. Hopefully this solution will let both sides back down and save face. I don't want any of this noise following us into the general.

I don't think it was a bullshit punishment. In 2012, I spent many hours over several months as a volunteer making calls and gathering data for the Obama campaign. If a competitor took advantage of a data breach to steal mine and hundreds of other volunteers' work, then tried to blame everyone but their own campaign, I would think cutting their access off from the VAN is not a bullshit punishment at all.

People who like to talk up how Bernie's campaign is grassroots and made of activists and whatnot, it's like they don't know the other side is made of volunteers who have beliefs they're willing to devote time and effort to as well. Why should their efforts for Hillary be considered so cheap?

 

[Cerium]

"Reached a deal" sounds like a polite way of saying that Debbie caved as per her usual habit of fucking up at everything. Looks like Hillary will just have to find a way forward based on the assumption that Bernie has all her shit. I think we can dispense with any notion that she's not going to have to work to earn the nomination.

I don't think it was a bullshit punishment. In 2012, I spent many hours over several months as a volunteer making calls and gathering data for the Obama campaign. If a competitor took advantage of a data breach to steal mine and hundreds of other volunteers' work, then tried to blame everyone but their own campaign, I would think cutting their access off from the VAN is not a bullshit punishment at all.

People who like to talk up how Bernie's campaign is grassroots and made of activists and whatnot, it's like they don't know the other side is made of volunteers who have beliefs they're willing to devote time and effort to as well. Why should their efforts for Hillary be considered so cheap?

I don't even care if it was malicious or not, fuck Hilary and her corporate campaign. Within reason the goal justifies the methods to stop her nomination. This might end up badly though looking at the fact that people in general care more about drama than the improvements of their own lives.

 

[noshten]

I'd wait for Debbie to hand in her resignation before calling this a success. The level of incompetence is beyond negligence.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'd wait for Debbie to hand in her resignation before calling this a success. The level of incompetence is beyond negligence.

Care to explain how she is responsible for someone from Sander's campaign downloading data they should have have access to?

 

[noshten]

Care to explain how she is responsible for someone from Sander's campaign downloading data they should have have access to?

Lets see
- breaking contract in place with the Sanders campaing
- working with a vendor who on multiple occasion caused security breaches
- ignoring and not addressing prior reports from the Bernie campaign about said
- blaming Sander's campaign when the DNC and vendor are the ones accountable for keeping the database secure.

But yes keep defending DWS

 

[Suikoguy]

Lets see
- breaking contract in place with the Sanders campaing
- working with a vendor who on multiple occasion caused security breaches
- ignoring and not addressing prior reports from the Bernie campaign about said
- blaming Sander's campaign when the DNC and vendor are the ones accountable for keeping the database secure.

But yes keep defending DWS

So let me get this straight;

If per chance a bank vault is left open by some sort of software error during the day, and someone stole money from that vault; it is the entire fault of the bank?

 

[eBay Huckster]

on the bright side of this update: there's just eleven more weeks of this shit

on the dark side of this update: there's ELEVEN ENTIRE GODDAMN WEEKS of this shit

 

[Phased]

Care to explain how she is responsible for someone from Sander's campaign downloading data they should have have access to?

You missed the note. It's the organization's fault for not keeping their data more secure, not the Bernie campaign's fault for downloading it. Really if they didn't want the data stolen they'd have protected it better, so it's basically all their fault in the end.

 

[Piecake]

Lets see
- breaking contract in place with the Sanders campaing
- working with a vendor who on multiple occasion caused security breaches
- ignoring and not addressing prior reports from the Bernie campaign about said
- blaming Sander's campaign when the DNC and vendor are the ones accountable for keeping the database secure.

But yes keep defending DWS

The Sander's campaign shouldn't be blamed for stealing data from Clinton's campaign?

 

[noshten]

So let me get this straight;

If per chance a bank vault is left open by some sort of software error during the day, and someone stole money from that vault; it is the entire fault of the bank?

I'm not sure if you are serious?

The Sander's campaign shouldn't be blamed for stealing data from Clinton's campaign?

The staff member was fired. If anyone wants to pursue this any further they can start an investigation - it's not very difficult to actually compile enough information of what happened if the computers that were used and the database logs are both investigated. DWS said that if Sander's campaign had this data they wouldn't be given access to the database earlier today. So if they are now allowing him access either they are afraid of the suit or Sander's team has proven that they don't have any of that data and it was the work of a staff member who overstepped boundaries much like DWS and was promptly fired.

In any case what I outlined above still needs to be addressed and DWS is personally accountable.

 

[royalan]

Lets see
- breaking contract in place with the Sanders campaing
- working with a vendor who on multiple occasion caused security breaches
- ignoring and not addressing prior reports from the Bernie campaign about said
- blaming Sander's campaign when the DNC and vendor are the ones accountable for keeping the database secure.

But yes keep defending DWS

Someone made a safe analogy a few pages back that was pretty apt. Someone leaving their safe door unlocked doesn't give you the right to take the valuables inside.

The DNC's incompetence doesn't absolve Bernie's team of wrongdoing. And it's the very fact that Bernie's campaign is trying to spin this the way you just did that is making people say Bernie isn't taking ownership of what his team did and deserves punishment.

 

[Cerium]

Someone made a safe analogy a few pages back that was pretty apt. Someone leaving their safe door unlocked doesn't give you the right to take the valuables inside.

The DNC's incompetence doesn't absolve Bernie's team of wrongdoing. And it's the very fact that Bernie's campaign is trying to spin this the way you just did that is making people say Bernie isn't taking ownership of what his team did and deserves punishment.

Sanders 2016: The Buck Stops Somewhere Else, Probably At The DNC.

Presidential. Powerful. Inspiring.

.

 

[Piecake]

I'm not sure if you are serious?

Then what exactly did you mean with your 4th point?

 

[Zornack]

I'm not sure if you are serious?

Do you think Bernie's campaign did anything wrong here?

 

[akira28]

I'm not sure if you are serious?

This was framed as a security breach instead of a security lapse. There's a difference.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Why can't multiple parties/people be at fault for something? Why does it have to be an either/or? Why can't Sanders' campaign and the DNC both shoulder some fault in this to different degrees of wrongness? Is it just that hard for two opinions to exist in some people's minds?

 

[lednerg]

I'm not convinced either way about this and am going to wait for the investigation. That said, what the DNC did was bullshit.

 

[noshten]

This was framed as a security breach instead of a security lapse. There's a difference.

If the security breach is self caused, do you want to venture a guess who is liable.

 

[Arkeband]

Be careful reading past the articles on this story to comments because I saw a Star Wars spoiler in one.

That's the real fucking tragedy here, sunnuvabitch!

 

[ephemeral garbage]

I don't think it was a bullshit punishment. In 2012, I spent many hours over several months as a volunteer making calls and gathering data for the Obama campaign. If a competitor took advantage of a data breach to steal mine and hundreds of other volunteers' work, then tried to blame everyone but their own campaign, I would think cutting their access off from the VAN is not a bullshit punishment at all.

People who like to talk up how Bernie's campaign is grassroots and made of activists and whatnot, it's like they don't know the other side is made of volunteers who have beliefs they're willing to devote time and effort to as well. Why should their efforts for Hillary be considered so cheap?

Maybe you meant to quote the guy who actually called it a bullshit punishment (?) My question was as to whether the DNC actually needed to cut off the Sanders campaign to secure the data like they claimed, or whether the action was punitive (warranted or not). It seems like we're in agreement that it was punitive. I also agree with you that the breach was bullshit and should not have happened.

I am very grateful for your work on behalf of Obama, btw. I owe my sense of hearing to the fact that I had coverage through Obamacare (I was self-employed and didn't have insurance till last year).

 

[akira28]

If the security breach is self caused, do you want to venture a guess who is liable.

not me?

I blame the SOPs. fire the security officer

 

[ephemeral garbage]

So let me get this straight;

If per chance a bank vault is left open by some sort of software error during the day, and someone stole money from that vault; it is the entire fault of the bank?

Nope - but I won't be banking with them anymore, lol.

 

[Dude Abides]

Where do you live? I wouldnt mind helping myself to some of your property.

Lol. It's a voter database. Hillary's campaign still has access to everything they did yesterday. Don't make dumb analogies.

 

[Clefargle]

Lol. It's a voter database. Hillary's campaign still has access to everything they did yesterday. Don't make dumb analogies.

Oh so if I take your SS# and credit info it's fine because you still have them too? What the hell man

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Oh so if I take your SS# and credit info it's fine because you still have them too? What the hell man

I think the better analogy might be stealing trade secrets?