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[BronsonLee]

Soda would never ever ever be exempt from SNAP because the soda makers would be furious so nah

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I used to agree with this, and I also would favor legalizing all drugs. That stopped when I saw my health insurance premiums rise last year. If someone is going to be taxed for bad consumption habits, I sure don't want it to be me. They can make their own choices when I can make my own choice of not paying for their healthcare.

Yeah, people like to think that their choices re: their health only affects them, but it's just not true.

We all pay for bad health habits in the end.

 

[Kin5290]

Soda tax is one of the dumbest things ever conceived. Not only is it the fed trying to control what people drink (which is beyond asinine), but it very negatively effects many people who suddenly can't afford drinks for their kids at the grocery store.



Mhmm.

Local city government, not "the fed".

 

[PanicFreak]

So the original plan was 3c per ounce for regular soda and 0c per ounce for diet soda? And then they changed to 1.5c per ounce on everything. wtf is that about? What's the point of disincentivising diet soda?

Diet soda is also crap for you.

 

[GurgleBot20]

I'm sure most don't even want to tackle this side of the argument.

I would think that if a person has to budget their grocery spending on government assistance, then a higher price on soft drinks would have to be accounted for.

That said, it's hard to determine the affect this has on actually deferring the consumption of such items without actual data, and it would be nice if some of that additional revenue would go to actual educational programs.

I get the desire to encourage people to curb how much soda they drink (I drink a few glasses a year at most), but it seems hypocritical when alcohol is widely available and advertised all the time and when the momentum is in favor of legalizing marijuana.

I did a quick google search and it seems there is a %10 tax on alcohol in Philly, and marijuana is often taxed where it is legal.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I'm sure most don't even want to tackle this side of the argument.

If they want to use marginally more of their SNAP benefits on soda thats their choice. Not one I'd make but hey.

Ok but where is the line? DO we start saying you don't need hamburgers, pizza, fatty pastas, sodas, juice alcohol. I mean I guess if you are a health nut that doesn't consume those thigns anyway then that would be fine for you. But how much are we going to start controlling the decisions people make in their lives. Is it a slippery slope?

The line is when there is an obesity epidemic in the country that is crippling our healthcare system and its already been crossed. If we can get our shit together and take some personal responsibility then we can take a new look at this stuff.

 

[Manmademan]

Ok but where is the line? DO we start saying you don't need hamburgers, pizza, fatty pastas, sodas, juice alcohol. I mean I guess if you are a health nut that doesn't consume those thigns anyway then that would be fine for you. But how much are we going to start controlling the decisions people make in their lives. Is it a slippery slope?

We already do this and no one cares.

There's a reason prepared foods are taxed, but groceries are not.

You also can't use EBT on most prepared foods, because those are mostly junk.

 

[mid83]

It constantly amuses me how many of us give the government unlimited credit for their brilliant social ideas, but Average Joe is a perennial idiot.

That's what I find somewhat ridiculous about this. People here seem to think the average person is a moron who is getting fleeced by big sugar. Only the government forcing a certain behavior can save them.

Plus, you'd think by all the responses here that this forum is full of people who drink nothing but water and eat completely healthy. What a load of BS.

 

[ezrarh]

It constantly amuses me how many of us give the government unlimited credit for their brilliant social ideas, but Average Joe is a perennial idiot.

Whether the average joe is an idiot or not isn't important to me. I actually favor increased decentralization of a lot of things. I could buy your argument but as long as large companies have outsized influence with government, especially at federal level, then local government should have the option to do something about it. I favor this idea more so because it stems from local decision making of the city versus a mandate from the federal government or even state. If it doesn't work the way the city intended then others can learn from it.

 

[perfectchaos007]

That's what I find somewhat ridiculous about this. People here seem to think the average person is a moron who is getting fleeced by big sugar. Only the government forcing a certain behavior can save them.

Plus, you'd think by all the responses here that this forum is full of people who drink nothing but water and eat completely healthy. What a load of BS.

Victim culture. We are perceived victims of a poor health education system so we don't know any better. Also, this hurts the individuals who want to indulge in moderation. The overall "healthy" guy who buys one coke a week will still pay the "sin tax" which is ridiculous

 

[Xe4]

I'm in favor of taxes on sugary drinks. It will hurt lower income individuals in the short term, but help them in the long term, same as with taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.

What is fucking stupid is then putting it on diet soda. People should be incentivised to drink diet soda, not dissuaded. Ad far as health goes, it's a bell of a lot closer to water than it is to all that sugary crap.

 

[rjinaz]

If they want to use more of their SNAP benefits on soda thats their choice. Not one I'd make but hey.



The line is when there is an obesity epidemic in the country that is crippling our healthcare system and its already been crossed. If we can get our shit together and take some personal responsibility then we can take a new look at this stuff.

I don't disagree with you on principle. So let's just tax, proportionally to your income, all things that are considered unhealthy or that there are healthier options. We get the problem under control and absolutely everybody is treated equally. Of course coming up with such a system is probably impossible.

I think I take more offense at the callous attitude more than anything, like this doesn't really affect anybody. Well yes it does, you are taking away a choice for a poor person. But, it may be a necessary one I'm not going to lie. Heck I would stop drinking sugary drinks if they were taxed to high hell. I wouldn't be happy about it but I would. But, same goes for pizza and hamburgers too. I'd stop if I could no longer afford them.

 

[Ron Mexico]

The line is when there is an obesity epidemic in the country that is crippling our healthcare system and its already been crossed. If we can get our shit together and take some personal responsibility then we can take a new look at this stuff.

So if the city wasn't horribly up to its ears in fiscal mismanagement, do you think this tax would have ever seen the light of day?

There's a separate argument for obesity and just a shit fiscal policy. You'll find very little philosophical disagreement on the former. This issue is the latter.

 

[Xe4]

Diet soda is also crap for you.

No it's not. Stop with the bullshit and read the literature on diet soda.

 

[Skellig Gra]

So if the city wasn't horribly up to its ears in fiscal mismanagement, do you think this tax would have ever seen the light of day?

There's a separate argument for obesity and just a shit fiscal policy. You'll find very little philosophical disagreement on the former. This issue is the latter.

You are right of course, its a convenient excuse to raise taxes but at least its a legitimate one.

 

[Wads]

Interesting, in sf the tax will be charged to the distributor instead of the consumer. I am sure the price will go up for the consumer by it being passed through, but higher price =lower sales and the consumer doesn't see the tax on their receipt.

 

[Manmademan]

Interesting, in sf the tax will be charged to the distributor instead of the consumer. I am sure the price will go up for the consumer by it being passed through, but higher price =lower sales and the consumer doesn't see the tax on their receipt.

The Philly tax is the same way. The cost is just passed on entirely because that's the obvious result.

The only reason the tax shows up on the receipt is that some retailers arbitrarily put it there out of protest.

 

[tearsintherain]

Be a good chance to see if the tax has any impact on whether it changes peoples buying habits. Unfortunately I seriously doubt any of that is planned for, the tax is just implemented with no setup for any followup studies to see how people change their buying and consumption habits and if the tax had a positive effect on society.

Anytime this type of tax is implemented there should definitely be language in it that part of the money will be used to fund studies before the tax and after the tax so it can be be scientifically shown whether the tax was good or bad, and if the net impact was minimal the tax should be rolled back.

I personally have little confidence in any of these kind of taxes having any impact on health, the increase would have to be dramatic ala tax on cigs to really make people think twice. Paying 30c more for a case of soda is just a "shrug, prices have gone up" thing you get used to super fast. It would have to double or more for people to really think about whether they want something or not.

 

[rjinaz]

We already do this and no one cares.

There's a reason prepared foods are taxed, but groceries are not.

You also can't use EBT on most prepared foods, because those are mostly junk.

Well that's true too.

I'm not opposed to a sugar tax mind you. But it does suck for people that just want to drink some coke after working at McDonald's all day but now no longer can because it's just getting too expensive. It does effect poor people disproportionately I don't think people can deny that. Though thankfully it's not such a high tax (for now) that most people would be stopped by it completely so I wouldn't vote against such a tax myself.

 

[Manmademan]

Be a good chance to see if the tax has any impact on whether it changes peoples buying habits. Unfortunately I seriously doubt any of that is planned for, the tax is just implemented with no setup for any followup studies to see how people change their buying and consumption habits and if the tax had a positive effect on society.

Anytime this type of tax is implemented there should definitely be language in it that part of the money will be used to fund studies before the tax and after the tax so it can be be scientifically shown whether the tax was good or bad, and if the net impact was minimal the tax should be rolled back.

The tax is designed primarily to fund early childhood initiatives and that's how it was sold to Philly voters.

The "health" aspect is a nice bonus but not why it was presented or passed.

And the tax is 1.5 cents per ounce, so a case of say 24 16 oz bottles is 5.76

Not exactly shrugworthy

 

[LosDaddie]

If they want to use marginally more of their SNAP benefits on soda thats their choice. Not one I'd make but hey.

But there is little-to-no health benefits to soda, and it can lead to serious health issues like diabetes.

So why should people be able to use their govt benefits on soda? 😏

No it's not. Stop with the bullshit and read the literature on diet soda.

The acid content alone is horrible for your teeth. Diet soda is a better option than regular soda, but that doesn't make it healthy.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Interesting, in sf the tax will be charged to the distributor instead of the consumer. I am sure the price will go up for the consumer by it being passed through, but higher price =lower sales and the consumer doesn't see the tax on their receipt.

It'll be pretty obvious when you're paying a dollar or two more for a pack of soda that the tax exists, even if it's not a specific line item on a receipt.

 

[Meatfist]

If they're going to tax tobacco and alcohol, they should tax soda too--it makes economic sense.

It's hard to say how much the tax should be, but anything to encourage people to make healthier choices is a good start

 

[EYEL1NER]

That's dumb, they could tax the price increase from whatever vanilla bullshit latte cappa thing people want added to their coffee.


This should totally be an ep in Always Sunny though; The Gang Smuggles Soda. And then to cut costs, Charlie and Frank start mixing their own Charlie Cola in their bathtub.

Frank already owns stock in Wolf Cola, so I imagine they would be smuggling that into the city. Unless Wolf Cola is actually being made in their bathtub.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

What about just drinking water? I probably drink one soda per semester, if that.

Soda tax is good.

 

[Xe4]

But there is little-to-no health benefits to soda, and it can lead to serious health issues like diabetes.

So why should people be able to use their govt benefits on soda? 😏




The acid content alone is horrible for your teeth. Diet soda is a better option than regular soda, but that doesn't make it healthy.

Not good for your teeth != crap.

Here's a list of drinks diet soda is better than.

• Soda
• Juice
• Energy Drinks
• Sugary Tea
• Suary Coffie
• Lemonade

Here's a list of drinks diet soda is worse than.

• Water
• Carbonated Water

I'd say diet soda is not half bad for you, all things considered.

 

[jello44]

Why single out sugary drinks? How about implement taxes on all high caloric foods starting with your Philly Cheesesteaks. Lets slippery slope this bitch

There would be riots if they tried this shit.

And it's just a cheesesteak godammit, drop the Philly.

 

[Poohblaster]

Just like the lottery is a tax on the mathematically challenged. The soda tax is for the nutritionally challenged. I'm all for it.

 

[Manmademan]

Why single out sugary drinks? How about implement taxes on all high caloric foods starting with your Philly Cheesesteaks. Lets slippery slope this bitch

How do people like this go through life being unaware that we already tax prepared junk food like cheesesteaks?

Soda was equally junk if not worse, but was tax exempt. Now it's not.

 

[Fulminator]

the answer is simple: drink water

 

[TK-421]

Someone is gonna drive a U-Haul to Delaware, load up on soda at CostCo, come back to Philly and sell for profit.

 

[Sulik2]

Everyone saying this tax hurts poor people is forgetting the government already provides free drinking water to everyone, the poor already have a free alternative. This is a tax on a luxury item that has long term costs to all of society and the tax is to try and discourage people from drinking soda. Its a great idea. Just like the heavy tax on cigarettes.

 

[Poohblaster]

Someone is gonna drive a U-Haul to Delaware, load up on soda at CostCo, come back to Philly and sell for profit.

I hear heroin is much more lucrative.

 

[jello44]

How do people like this go through life being unaware that we already tax prepared junk food like cheesesteaks?

Soda was equally junk if not worse, but was tax exempt. Now it's not.

They do, but some places usually have signs that says "tax included in price".

Taxing extra? Yeah, we'll get mad.

 

[rjinaz]

How do people like this go through life being unaware that we already tax prepared junk food like cheesesteaks?

Soda was equally junk if not worse, but was tax exempt. Now it's not.

Well it's not exactly the same tax though. If it was the 5% whatever tax here in Arizona which is typical, I'd be ok with that. They are taxing per ounce. There is a difference here.

the answer is simple: drink water

No, you.

 

[BronsonLee]

Someone is gonna drive a U-Haul to Delaware, load up on soda at CostCo, come back to Philly and sell for profit.

Please don't make me go to Delaware

Everyone saying this tax hurts poor people is forgetting the government already provides free drinking water to everyone, the poor already have a free alternative. This is a tax on a luxury item that has long term costs to all of society and the tax is to try and discourage people from drinking soda. Its a great idea. Just like the heavy tax on cigarettes.

lol what the fuck, this logic dies entirely when you have a sip of Philly water and somehow the rest of your intestines just fly out of your mouth

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Not good for your teeth != crap.

Here's a list of drinks diet soda is better than.

• Soda
  [*]Juice
• Energy Drinks
• Sugary Tea
• Suary Coffie
  [*]Lemonade

Here's a list of drinks diet soda is worse than.

• Water
• Carbonated Water

I'd say diet soda is not half bad for you, all things considered.

By juice you don't actually mean natural juice, and the same with lemonade, right? Like, you're talking about fake bottled juice and sugary water with artificial lime flavor, correct? Otherwise you're wrong about those two.

Also, I don't think there's much of a difference between carbonated water and soda (carbonated water != sparkling water), unless you actually meant sparkling water instead. I know the terms are used interchangeably, but they're not quite the same as I understand it.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You are right of course, its a convenient excuse to raise taxes but at least its a legitimate one.

And this is how Kenney (the mayor of Philly for those outside the area) could be the first Democrat to lose to a Republican (in a Democratic stronghold of all strongholds) since 1952 in his next re-election bid. If predictit had a market for this now, I'd be all over it. More realistically, he'll lose the primary but anywhere else, he'd be utter toast.

Even in this thread there's so much about the philosophy and ideals and so little about the real impact of the actual tax.

It's not going to end well.

 

[rjinaz]

Please don't make me go to Delaware



lol what the fuck, this logic dies entirely when you have a sip of Philly water and somehow the rest of your intestines just fly out of your mouth

The poors can just drink water. It's free.

Seriously I don't even have a problem with this tax when it comes down to it, but the attitudes just rub me the wrong way. We get it, you only drink water, or think people need to be healthier anyway and it doesn't effect you. I mean we won't go through your receipts and look at you unhealthy choices but it is what it is.

Sugar IS poison for the body pretty much.

Edit: You in a general sense.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Please don't make me go to Delaware

Would you rather be in Delaware or Philly tho.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Drink tea if you guys can't stand the blandness of pedestrian tap water. If you don't like hot beverages drink iced tea, not ice tea, iced tea.

Thank me later.

 

[Manmademan]

Someone is gonna drive a U-Haul to Delaware, load up on soda at CostCo, come back to Philly and sell for profit.

Which makes no sense, because Delaware has no sales tax on everything.

If there was a viable market to do this, someone would have done it for televisions, laptops, jewelry, or any number of things that are more profitable than soda.

No one does.

You wouldn't even need to go to Delaware. Drive to bucks, montco, or delco.

Virtually no one will.

 

[DOWN]

This is dumb. Some of us know moderation.

 

[LosDaddie]

Not good for your teeth != crap.

The phosphoric acid literally destroys your teeth. That makes it crap in my book.

And I say that as someone who loves soda.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

And this is how Kenney (the mayor of Philly for those outside the area) could be the first Democrat to lose to a Republican (in a Democratic stronghold of all strongholds) since 1952 in his next re-election bid. If predictit had a market for this now, I'd be all over it. More realistically, he'll lose the primary but anywhere else, he'd be utter toast.

Even in this thread there's so much about the philosophy and ideals and so little about the real impact of the actual tax.

It's not going to end well.

I checked and he won't be up for election until 2019. By then the impact will be clearer than what people have seen the past few days.

 

[Manmademan]

Would you rather be in Delaware or Philly tho.

Philly, how is this even a question

 

[perfectchaos007]

So is this "soda tax" the only "sin tax" that doesn't come with an age restriction of purchase? With the sin taxes on beer, wine, and cigarettes you have to be of age to buy. Should there be an age restriction on soda? And should the punishment of underage soda purchases be a misdemeanor or felony?

 

[BronsonLee]

The poors can just drink water. It's free.

Seriously I don't even have a problem with this tax when it comes down to it, but the attitudes just rub me the wrong way. We get it, you only drink water, or think people need to be healthier anyway and it doesn't effect you. I mean we won't go through your receipts and look at you unhealthy choices but it is what it is.

Sugar IS poison for the body pretty much.

Edit: You in a general sense.

I mean shit, I roll with water, sparkling water, and a soda like once a month but the tax is still garbage

Would you rather be in Delaware or Philly tho.

I like Philly with all of its' flaws like the complete mismanagement of funds and lots of city initiatives designed to simply fill the coffers (looking right at you, PPA)

I'd die of boredom in Delaware

Drink tea if you guys can't stand the blandness of pedestrian tap water. If you don't like hot beverages drink iced tea, not ice tea, iced tea.

Thank me later.

Iced tea counts against the tax too if it has any sweetener in it.

 

[jello44]

Philly, how is this even a question

Lol

So true.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I checked and he won't be up for election until 2019. By then the impact will be clearer than what people have seen the past few days.

Kenney is also more than the soda tax and this isn't his first foray into some questionable calls.

Just more of a sign of the times was my point-- it's way easier to argue the philosophical intent while the practical application ends up a disaster.

I like Philly with all of its' flaws like the complete mismanagement of funds and lots of city initiatives designed to simply fill the coffers (looking right at you, PPA)

Also this. Appreciate Philly enough that I don't complain about the wage tax from crossing the river and I was even concerned for the PPA-- when they stuck my violation (for being literally an inch too far) up their ass, I even warned them about paper cuts. But hey, at least my money went toward paying off their ex-chief who was forced to resign over a sexual harassment complaint. Wouldn't want him to get shafted out of his unused vacation, sick, comp, and whatever the fuck else time. That's Philly.