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[YuriLowell]

This is stupid.

Government get out of my life.

 

[Freshmaker]

Drink tea if you guys can't stand the blandness of pedestrian tap water. If you don't like hot beverages drink iced tea, not ice tea, iced tea.

Thank me later.

There's no factual support for this being somehow better.

 

[Manmademan]

So is this "soda tax" the only "sin tax" that doesn't come with an age restriction of purchase? With the sin taxes on beer, wine, and cigarettes you have to be of age to buy. Should there be an age restriction on soda? And should the punishment of underage soda purchases be a misdemeanor or felony?

Not very bright are you.

It's a tax on sugared drinks because those are luxury items, not necessities. This bill was not sold as a "healthy!" Initiative like Bloomberg's was, just another revenue stream.

We already tax prepared foods like pizza, burgers, and cheesesteaks while leaving groceries alone. Now we tax soda while leaving water, milk, and OJ alone.

Has nothing to do with age and sin taxes.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

This tax is going towards prekindergarten programs, schools, and parks. Presumably, all of these will be shut down once people stop drinking soda and the revenue source disappears.

That or the government doesn't actually expect it to reduce soda consumption and it's just a ploy to tax the poor without upsetting people.

 

[jello44]

I mean shit, I roll with water, sparkling water, and a soda like once a month but the tax is still garbage

Yeah, if you rarely drink anything sugary, you can still be against the idea of this dumbass tax.

I'd die of boredom in Delaware

And this.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I mean shit, I roll with water, sparkling water, and a soda like once a month but the tax is still garbage



I like Philly with all of its' flaws like the complete mismanagement of funds and lots of city initiatives designed to simply fill the coffers (looking right at you, PPA)

I'd die of boredom in Delaware



Iced tea counts against the tax too if it has any sweetener in it.

Why would you put sweeteners in your iced tea?

There's no factual support for this being somehow better.

Its flavored water (no sugar though).

 

[rjinaz]

Not very bright are you.

It's a tax on sugared drinks because those are luxury items, not necessities. This bill was not sold as a "healthy!" Initiative like Bloomberg's was, just another revenue stream.

We already tax prepared foods like pizza, burgers, and cheesesteaks while leaving groceries alone. Now we tax soda while leaving water, milk, and OJ alone.

Has nothing to do with age and sin taxes.

We charge those things a higher tax? Where do you live, they don't here. Well I don't get taxed per ounce of fast food anyway.

 

[Wafflecakes]

So is this "soda tax" the only "sin tax" that doesn't come with an age restriction of purchase? With the sin taxes on beer, wine, and cigarettes you have to be of age to buy. Should there be an age restriction on soda? And should the punishment of underage soda purchases be a misdemeanor or felony?

This is dumb. No one thinks soda should have an age restriction.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

The poors can just drink water. It's free.

I don't get this. I'm not poor and I drink water because I know it's better for my health, even if it isn't free for me; I live in a rural area and I'd probably get sick if I drank tap water. It's still less expensive than buying a liter of coke or whatever that's only going to last three days at most and it's going to taste like crap after the first day (no gas). That's not even going into how you can't cook with soda (some people probably do), wash your teeth with soda, etc.

Whenever I get tired of "just water" I buy limes and squeeze a lime into my glass. That's also probably cheaper than soda.

I don't get why people try to turn this into a "holier than thou attitude vs the poors" thing.

 

[Xe4]

By juice you don't actually mean natural juice, and the same with lemonade, right? Like, you're talking about fake bottled juice and sugary water with artificial lime flavor, correct? Otherwise you're wrong about those two.

Also, I don't think there's much of a difference between carbonated water and soda (carbonated water != sparkling water), unless you actually meant sparkling water instead. I know the terms are used interchangeably, but they're not quite the same as I understand it.

Diet soda is even better than 100% juice, because it has tons of sugar, and a lot of the nutrition is removed in the jucing. Seriously, look at the back of 100% juice bottles sometimes, and compare it to diet sofa. Juice is way worse for your health.

And yeah, sparkling or carbonated water are both better, because they aren't as damaging to your teeth, due to the lack of phosporic acid.

The phosphoric acid literally destroys your teeth. That makes it crap in my book.

And I say that as someone who loves soda.

It depends by what you mean as destroy. Most of the acid is neutralized by your slaiva, and while it's still not great for your teeth, phosphoric acid in sodas is still 100x better for your teeth than sugar in sodas and juices.

 

[Manmademan]

We charge those things a higher tax? Where do you live, they don't here. Well I don't get taxed per ounce of fast food anyway.

The state of Pennsylvania hits prepared food with sales tax. Philadelphia has an additional 2% on top of the 6% state tax. This hits every single bit of fast food you buy.

So buying McDonald's for lunch is 8% sales tax. Buying a steak from the grocery store is 0% sales tax.

There's also a ban on using SNAP benefits on hot, prepared food, but I don't know if that's state or federal.

 

[BronsonLee]

In completely unrelated news that just came up I really want McDonald's now

 

[rjinaz]

I don't get this. I'm not poor and I drink water because I know it's better for my health, even if it isn't free for me; I live in a rural area and I'd probably get sick if I drank tap water. It's still less expensive than buying a liter of coke or whatever that's only going to last three days at most and it's going to taste like crap after the first day (no gas). That's not even going into how you can't cook with soda (some people probably do), wash your teeth with soda, etc.

Whenever I get tired of "just water" I buy limes and squeeze a lime into my glass. That's also probably cheaper than soda.

I don't get why people try to turn this into a "holier than thou attitude vs the poors" thing.

What if I don't want to drink only water? I don't like water. Is it really that strange of a concept that people like different things. That's what I don't get. That people that only drink water can't grasp why everybody doesn't only drink water. I know a guy that mostly eats lettuce and tuna and rice. Healthy as hell. Why doesn't everybody just eat that?

 

[Xe4]

What if I don't want to drink only water? I don't like water. Is it really that strange of a concept that people like different things. That's what I don't get. That people that only drink water can't grasp why everybody doesn't only drink water. I know a guy that mostly eats lettuce and tuna and rice. Healthy as hell. Why doesn't everybody just eat that?

Drink diet soda. Buy Mio, and carbonated water. All of those are better options than sugary soda, and still give you the benefits of taste and carbonation that lots of people (myself included) like.

 

[Freshmaker]

Its flavored water (no sugar though).

Most teas you can buy off the shelf are sweetened. It's a massive pain to find ones that aren't.

I'll take my freedom Coke Zero over combing for a drink I don't especially like.

 

[BronsonLee]

Drink diet soda. Buy Mio, and carbonated water. All of those are better options than sugary soda, and still give you the benefits of taste and carbonation that lots of people (myself included) like.

I heard Mio gives you butt cancer, confirm/deny

 

[h1nch]

I don't get the nanny state comments in this case. Tax != ban.

If you want to continue drinking garbage, feel free. You just gotta pay a little extra to help offset the negative health problems you are contributing to. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[rjinaz]

Drink diet soda. Buy mio, and carbonated watee. All of those are better options than sugary soda, and still give you the benefits of taste and carbonation that lots of people (myself included) like.

Diet soda gives me headaches and causes me to urinate all day long. It has weird effects on my body.

That said, I don't currently drink soda at all. I used to. Juice and sparkling water. Or sometimes I use stevia which doesn't effect me in the same way but stevia sode can be pricey.

 

[xxracerxx]

I am perfectly fine if we ever got a soda tax.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Diet soda is even better than 100% juice, because it has tons of sugar, and a lot of the nutrition is removed in the jucing. Seriously, look at the back of 100% juice bottles sometimes, and compare it to diet sofa. Juice is way worse for your health.

And yeah, sparkling or carbonated water are both better, because they aren't as damaging to your teeth, due to the lack of phosporic acid.


It depends by what you mean as destroy. Most of the acid is neutralized by your slaiva, and while it's still not great for your teeth, phosphoric acid in sodas is still 100x better for your teeth than sugar in sodas and juices.

Ah, I see. To me "juice" is the one you make at home, pulp and everything. Otherwise (even if it claims to be 100% juice) it's still a sugary drink. So yeah, I see what you mean now.

What if I don't want to drink only water? I don't like water. Is it really that strange of a concept that people like different things. That's what I don't get. That people that only drink water can't grasp why everybody doesn't only drink water. I know a guy that mostly eats lettuce and tuna and rice. Healthy as hell. Why doesn't everybody just eat that?

I did ask earlier "why don't you just drink water", and if the answer is "I don't like water" then that's a good answer and we're done. I'm not attacking you if you prefer to have soda or whatever, but then I don't see how you get to complain about being taxed for a luxury item.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I don't get the nanny state comments in this case. Tax != ban.

If you want to continue drinking garbage, feel free. You just gotta pay a little extra to help offset the negative health problems you are contributing to. I don't see a problem with that.

Except that's not the case, at least not in Philly. The revenue distribution was changed in committee from what was initially marketed to the public.

 

[Freshmaker]

I heard Mio gives you butt cancer, confirm/deny

I can only find food babe level "it's not NATURAL OH NOES!" articles on the subject.

Gotta be legit.

 

[BronsonLee]

I can only find food babe level "it's not NATURAL OH NOES!" articles on the subject.

Gotta be legit.

We gotta figure this out, ok everyone go ahead and search Mio butt cancer

 

[rjinaz]

Ah, I see. To me "juice" is the one you make at home, pulp and everything. Otherwise (even if it claims to be 100% juice) it's still a sugary drink. So yeah, I see what you mean now.

I did ask earlier "why don't you just drink water", and if the answer is "I don't like water" then that's a good answer and we're done. I'm not attacking you if you prefer to have soda or whatever, but then I don't see how you get to complain about being taxed for a luxury item.

Well because my point is, if I only drink sugary drinks, it's not a luxury item to me simply because water exists. If that's the case then everything but tuna, lettuce, and rice should be taxed higher because you can live off of that too, correct? Pretty much everything is a "luxury"

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I have no issue with the the taxes personally, though the money should all go to subsidizing health care. Essentially forcing people who make shitty health choices to at least put some more money into the healthcare system that will have to deal with them eventually.

As for hitting the lower classes more, I'm sure it does since that's the demographic that probably buys the most cheap, non diet sodas and other sugary drinks. But maybe that will help them realize the money they're pissing away on drinks vs tap water. Which also can be cheaply turned into coffee, unsweet tea etc. On top of the health benefits from not consuming empty liquid calories.

I do think there are better ways they could incentivize healthier choices rather than being lunatics with taxes. But have no issues with the taxes if they use the money for public health purposes, something that will be more essential as Trump and the GOP wreck our health care system.

 

[BronsonLee]

I feel like all of y'all live in fuckin' Eagleton and I'm just chillin in Pawnee

 

[Manmademan]

What if I don't want to drink only water? I don't like water. Is it really that strange of a concept that people like different things. That's what I don't get. That people that only drink water can't grasp why everybody doesn't only drink water. I know a guy that mostly eats lettuce and tuna and rice. Healthy as hell. Why doesn't everybody just eat that?

You can drink whatever you want, but if you want sugar water instead of regular water or milk It's going to cost more.

You can take public transportation to work and not be taxed, OR you can drive, but get hit with a gas tax per gallon of gas.

What if you don't want to take the bus? You don't like the bus? The government is forcing you to "not drive?" Stupid argument, you have options, but there's no obligation to ensure that all of those options cost the same.

 

[h1nch]

Except that's not the case, at least not in Philly. The revenue distribution was changed in committee from what was initially marketed to the public.

Well in that case, that's a bunch of horseshit. One of the best things about cannabis legalization in Colorado is that the tax revenue is put towards education and other public services.

 

[stanis]

what is a homeless duck?

 

[BronsonLee]

You can take public transportation to work and not be taxed, OR you can drive, but get hit with a gas tax per gallon of gas.

What if you don't want to take the bus? You don't like the bus? The government is forcing you to "not drive?" Stupid argument, you have options, but there's no obligation to ensure that all of those options cost the same.

Wait are you trying to recommend someone actually take SEPTA

Do you want them to die and/or get peed on

 

[rjinaz]

You can drink whatever you want, but if you want sugar water instead of regular water or milk It's going to cost more.

You can take public transportation to work and not be taxed, OR you can drive, but get hit with a gas tax per gallon of gas.

What if you don't want to take the bus? You don't like the bus? The government is forcing you to "not drive?" Stupid argument, you have options, but there's no obligation to ensure that all of those options cost the same.

Then let's tax all foods and drinks that are not absolutely essential and healthiest. It's for the best. It just seems to me that the people that say drink water it's better for you are the ones that eat steak instead of chicken breast or hamburger instead of veggie burger.

No I get it, the option is not removed completely it just costs more but it seems to me if we're gong to tax one luxury, we should tax them all (at a higher rate) and really consider what a luxury is.

 

[Manmademan]

Well because my point is, if I only drink sugary drinks, it's not a luxury item to me simply because water exists. If that's the case then everything but tuna, lettuce, and rice should be taxed higher because you can live off of that too, correct? Pretty much everything is a "luxury"

If you refuse to drive nothing but BMWs regardless of your budget, that doesn't mean they're no longer luxury cars.

That just means you have unreasonable preferences for luxury goods.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Well because my point is, if I only drink sugary drinks, it's not a luxury item to me simply because water exists. If that's the case then everything but tuna, lettuce, and rice should be taxed higher because you can live off of that too, correct? Pretty much everything is a "luxury"

Sure, if that's the slippery slope you want to head towards, then might as well switch to drinking scotch exclusively and declare it's not a luxury because you don't like anything else.

There are certain products that are considered basic goods. In terms of food, they're not limited to rice/lettuce so I'm not sure your comparison is valid. For drinks I think you can substitute water with milk or juice.

In any case, I'm certain we won't agree on this, which is fine. If you don't like the tax you can write to your representative in congress and make sure your stance is known. I can say honestly that I am both in the position of "eh, it doesn't affect me" and "I think it makes sense because of health issues and it being a luxury item"; I say this as a guy that buys three bottles of wine and a case of beer pretty much every month and I'm fine with the tax because I know those are luxury items.

Then let's tax all foods and drinks that are not absolutely essential and healthiest. It's for the best. It just seems to me that the people that say drink water it's better for you are the ones that eat steak instead of chicken breast or hamburger instead of veggie burger.

You'd be wrong in my case. I buy/eat more fish/chicken that I do red meat. It's funny how you're throwing around these baseless assumptions.

 

[Manmademan]

Wait are you trying to recommend someone actually take SEPTA

Do you want them to die and/or get peed on

I take septa to work downtown every day. Only fools drive into center city.

There is a VERY stark divide between who takes the subway and who takes regional rail though.

 

[h1nch]

Then let's tax all foods and drinks that are not absolutely essential and healthiest. It's for the best. It just seems to me that the people that say drink water it's better for you are the ones that eat steak instead of chicken breast or hamburger instead of veggie burger.

No I get it, the option is not removed completely it just costs more but it seems to me if we're gong to tax one luxury, we should tax them all (at a higher rate) and really consider what a luxury is.

I would argue that none the examples you listed have had anywhere near the negative public health impact that sugary drinks have.

 

[BronsonLee]

I take septa to work downtown every day. Only fools drive into center city.

There is a VERY stark divide between who takes the subway and who takes regional rail though.

You're taking him on a gateway drug that leads straight to hell

 

[Ron Mexico]

Well in that case, that's a bunch of horseshit. One of the best things about cannabis legalization in Colorado is that the tax revenue is put towards education and other public services.

But notice what all the conversation is about. It's how Philly can run itself into the ground while nobody is any the wiser. It's also why they need a soda tax to patch the gunshot wounds in their budget, but that's just going in circles now.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

What if I don't want to drink only water? I don't like water. Is it really that strange of a concept that people like different things. That's what I don't get. That people that only drink water can't grasp why everybody doesn't only drink water. I know a guy that mostly eats lettuce and tuna and rice. Healthy as hell. Why doesn't everybody just eat that?

Largely an issue because of this.

If you want to continue drinking garbage, feel free. You just gotta pay a little extra to help offset the negative health problems you are contributing to. I don't see a problem with that.

If you want to be unhealthy fine. The rest of us shouldn't have to pay higher premiums for insurance we barely use to subsidize you unhealthy types. If the tax revenue is put toward health care (and I get that it often isn't and that's fucked up) it's at least a step in the direction of tying the money people put into the system to their health habits or lack there of.

What we really need is yearly physicals and discounts on premiums for healthy people, much like safe driver discounts auto insurance. That would only work given a public option for people in poverty of course. But in the middle class and above those who take care of theirselves and really only have instance in case of accidents and non-preventable health problems shouldn't be paying the same premiums as obese diabetic alcoholic smokers.

 

[DOWN]

I don't get the nanny state comments in this case. Tax != ban.

If you want to continue drinking garbage, feel free. You just gotta pay a little extra to help offset the negative health problems you are contributing to. I don't see a problem with that.

Except many people drink in moderation and don't have health issues from soda.

 

[rjinaz]

I would argue that none the examples you listed have had anywhere near the negative public health impact that sugary drinks have.

That's fair. My point was though that the people that think of soda as simply a luxury that poor people don't need, are the same people that have their own luxuries and usually more expensive ones that they can afford.

Sales tax itself is a burden on the poorer people. The rich won't even give a second thought about a sales tax because it's virtually nothing to them but it matters to people counting their pennies. The sales system is not perfect and does effect people differently.

But I already said that I had a problem more with that attitudes I was seeing regarding sugary drinks more so than this tax itself so I'l just leave things here. People smarter than me will ultimately decide what the tax should be.

 

[Gutek]

Then let's tax all foods and drinks that are not absolutely essential and healthiest. It's for the best. It just seems to me that the people that say drink water it's better for you are the ones that eat steak instead of chicken breast or hamburger instead of veggie burger.

No I get it, the option is not removed completely it just costs more but it seems to me if we're gong to tax one luxury, we should tax them all (at a higher rate) and really consider what a luxury is.

All of these have nutritional value.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I like Philly with all of its' flaws like the complete mismanagement of funds and lots of city initiatives designed to simply fill the coffers (looking right at you, PPA)

I'd die of boredom in Delaware

always knew u were a thrill chaser.

must be one of those septa rider types.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

Lucky? The tax is to curb the purchase of sugary drinks. If they're not taxing them in your area, they probably want you dead.

You were unlucky all along.

 

[E92 M3]

Not quite hyperbolic at all.

Retailers were already raising prices before the tax, which is levied on the distributors level, could even stock their shelves with the newly-taxed goods.

Several places also raised their prices on bottled water, even though it was not and was never on the table to be taxed.

There's also arguments galore about how the breakdown of where the tax income was going changed once the bill went through committee.

All of these, while seemingly minor at face value, are going to be fought. That fight is going to cost resources, putting even more of a strain on a city that can't keep its fiscal shit together to begin with.

So yeah, wreaking havoc. And all of that is ignoring both a) the impact on the poor and b) the nonstop arguments over diet vs. regular and all that other nonsense.

Money going to the correct place is another issue altogether.

lol. I hope we have a high tax on M3s and any cars that give less than 50 MPG. Less of a burden on our ecosystem.

If you are really concerned about the burden on our health system, you should know that the obese and smokers have less lifetime healthcare costs than healthy people.

There already is a gas guzzler tax. Also, no one thinks about taxes when buying an M3.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Most teas you can buy off the shelf are sweetened. It's a massive pain to find ones that aren't.

I'll take my freedom Coke Zero over combing for a drink I don't especially like.

Make the tea yourself?

 

[LosDaddie]

It depends by what you mean as destroy. Most of the acid is neutralized by your slaiva, and while it's still not great for your teeth, phosphoric acid in sodas is still 100x better for your teeth than sugar in sodas and juices.

My statement wasn't ambiguous. I meant destroy, as in literally erode the enamel on your teeth. Phosphoric acid destroys your teeth. It's unhealthy. It's crap.

Just because diet soda doesn't contain a ton of sugar automatically make it a healthy drink.

 

[Manmademan]

But notice what all the conversation is about. It's how Philly can run itself into the ground while nobody is any the wiser. It's also why they need a soda tax to patch the gunshot wounds in their budget, but that's just going in circles now.

Tax isn't going to fix budget holes.

49% of the tax is going to fund pre K education that does not currently exist.

9% is going to community schools.

3% to parks

12% to the rebuild program.

1% to the healthy beverages tax credit.

And 6% to the fund balance contribution which helps keep the city's credit rating high.

The final 20% was added during negotiations..81 million.

Of that 6.7 is going to employee benefits, primarily for disability payments.

4.3 million to expanding health and human services. Primarily for the homeless

1.6 to juvenile lifers without parole. The supreme court ordered that 300 of these be resentenced, and that isn't free.

1 million to community colleges
1 million to cultural institutions like the African American museum.


Etc.


This is over a five year period and most of this expires. Despite this the pre K initiative will be fully funded.

 

[ZOONAMI]

With the diabetes epidemic in this country I'm surprised so many people are against this.

 

[CertifiedFP]

There's a Sin Tax on games (On Steam) in Illinois thanks to the Bruce Ruiner administration. Among other grievances I have with that farce of a governor. Should I stop spending what little downtime I have in my week enjoying a decent game or two because the Nanny State said so?

Spoiler

Bring Back Blago!

And besides, we all know these kinds of taxes are meant to keep the poor people down as opposed to creating some magical utopia. Grow a little cynicism and you'll see the truthfacts in play.

I'll support these measures when and only when we get universal healthcare. Not a moment before.

 

[junpei]

I'm not a fan of the nanny states. Some people like to be told what to eat, drink, and do but I don't.

Are you a fan of paying more for health insurance because that's exactly what you're advocating. An excess of sugar is going to negative health conditions and that in turn will lead to the insurance company having to pay out more. You better believe that they aren't just going to eat that cost someone is going to have to pay for that. Their choice doesn't exist in a vacuum and it doesn't just solely affect them. Unhealthy lifestyle choices cost health insurance companies billions of dollars.