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[Sho_Nuff82]

You might not be supposed to but many people do laugh WITH Cartman and not at him and repeat his catchphrases and frankly South Park is not nearly as clever and its satire not nearly as well executed as its defenders seem to think it is. The commentary in SP has all the depth of a paddling pool and is often loaded with fallacies. Anyone who thinks that SP has been a net positive in the fight against anti-semitism in the last 15+ years is not being honest with themselves.

If people are too dumb to tell they're being made fun of that's not the fault of the artist. I think most leftists got the point that PC Principal was a character to be mocked, not emulated.

If SP has normalized anything it would be all of the characters' ubiquitous use of the words "fag" or "gay" as a slur, even if the show has been relatively progressive towards LGBT.

 

[Pinko Marx]

To everyone in here saying that it's different because Cartman is the villain and you're supposed to hate him...

That's nonsense.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise. You are not supposed to hate Cartman -- you're supposed to buy a mug with his face on it. The writers are leveraging antisemitism for comedic effect, just like PewDiePie was doing. You can argue (as I would) that South Park is more skilled at doing this, but the intent is no different.

Cartman is definitely not the main character of the series. You can make an argument about the entire crew being the main characters, of which Cartman belongs, but he himself is not the main draw. His antics in the series has propelled him to the spotlight, but all those antics are horrible. Not only that, but his antics usually backfire on him. Cartman's goals are usually versus to Stan and/or Kyle, who you ARE supposed to relate to.

 

[Venture]

South Park, no. I think you could make a case for Family Guy though. Like 99% of the time when a Jewish character is on screen or Jews are mentioned it's to make a "LOL! Jews are money-grubbing cheapskates!" joke. Maybe I'm biased though. Never liked Family Guy.

 

[gutter_trash]

the Far-Left seriously needs to stop to trying to falsely label South Park as Alt-Right

South Park makes fun of everybody

the Moses episode with macaroni art was great

 

[Laevateinn]

To everyone in here saying that it's different because Cartman is the villain and you're supposed to hate him...

That's nonsense.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise. You are not supposed to hate Cartman -- you're supposed to buy a mug with his face on it. The writers are leveraging antisemitism for comedic effect, just like PewDiePie was doing. You can argue (as I would) that South Park is more skilled at doing this, but the intent is no different.

Kyle and Stan are the main characters since they are the embodiment of the show's creators.

 

[entremet]

Isn't Milo Greek? He'd be one of the first ever Jewish Greeks I've ever heard of. I was always under the impression that outside converting later, Greeks are all effectively Orthodox. The religious ones anyway.

Never heard of the Jewish diaspora?

 

[Slaythe]

In no way are they antisemitic.

They have trashed EVERYBODY with no exception.

And while the jews jokes were the most frequent, they had Kyle to be the voice of reason, along with Stan.

Cartman is never portrayed as a good person and it's obvious that everything he likes is bad.

Matt Stone has jewish legacy, but decided to become atheist. He still respects his family.

If people can't understand Cartman is meant to be the bad guy, then they were gonna be assholes anyway to begin with.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

To everyone in here saying that it's different because Cartman is the villain and you're supposed to hate him...

That's nonsense.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise. You are not supposed to hate Cartman -- you're supposed to buy a mug with his face on it. The writers are leveraging antisemitism for comedic effect, just like PewDiePie was doing. You can argue (as I would) that South Park is more skilled at doing this, but the intent is no different.

Cartman is the most popular character on the show, because he's a piece of shit.

The comic book villain The Joker is heavily merchandised as well. Are the comic book writers trying to push a "pro" Joker agenda?

 

[Puruzi]

Hell no.

 

[TS-08]

To everyone in here saying that it's different because Cartman is the villain and you're supposed to hate him...

That's nonsense.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise. You are not supposed to hate Cartman -- you're supposed to buy a mug with his face on it. The writers are leveraging antisemitism for comedic effect, just like PewDiePie was doing. You can argue (as I would) that South Park is more skilled at doing this, but the intent is no different.

The fact that he is popular and on merchandise doesn't make him not a "villain." If you spent about a minute thinking that through and considering other examples I think you would have realized that.

 

[turtle553]

Yes. the butt of all their jokes are jews. just because one of your characters is a jew doesn't mean its okay. its like saying i have a black friend, so its okay to say nigger.

If only they ever addressed that

 

[Cyframe]

Because half the stuff on that show is way worse than anything PewDiePie ever did.

Both are terrible in their own ways.

I was harassed because South Park helped normalize and popularize homophobic slurs. I'm sure, and someone mentioned already, that they knew someone who was harassed because they were Jewish and South Park made anti-semitic jokes.

Maybe it's not their intent to encourage harassment, but it was a result and they've never, as far as I know took responsibility for that side effect

I just don't find South Park to be funny.

 

[A Link to the Past]

No, but I think that South Park can be a tool used by anti-Semites. It's kind of like All in the Family: Archie Bunker was designed to be a character who people mocked and derided for his viewpoints. Instead, many viewers identified with him and his racism. In the end, they were forced to change his character and make him learn and grow as a person (which to be frank was an ultimately good thing) to reduce the amount of identification between racist viewers and Archie. I don't think that Matt and Trey like at all that a non-trivial percentage of SP viewership identify with Cartman's bigotry, but I think it's worth talking about whether they should make any of their writing decisions based on that.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

There are two kinds of jokes in play here:

Joke A: Jews sucks.

Audience A: Haha yeah jews do suck


Joke B: Jews sucks.

Audience B: haha holy shit how can anyone say that with a straight face you're horrible


In Joke A, the target of the joke are the jews. It meant to bring attention to them, and have people laugh at them.

In Joke B, the target of the joke is the joker. It's meant to bring attention to himself, as a horrible person, and make the audience laugh at him.



PDP is Joke A.

South Park is (typically) Joke B.

This is about as well outlined and simple as anyone could explain it OP.

To everyone in here saying that it's different because Cartman is the villain and you're supposed to hate him...

That's nonsense.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise. You are not supposed to hate Cartman -- you're supposed to buy a mug with his face on it. The writers are leveraging antisemitism for comedic effect, just like PewDiePie was doing. You can argue (as I would) that South Park is more skilled at doing this, but the intent is no different.

You can buy a whole bunch of merch with comic book villains on them. That doesn't mean they're framed as heroes.

Hell, a huge portion of the jokes in All In The Family is Archie Bunker being ignorant.

 

[LiK]

There's a difference.

 

[NHarmonic.]

This is unfortunately true. I also remember students quoting SP to attack overweight classmates. This is why SP isn't meant for children - they are stupid about context.

It's obviously not intended for children, the explicit shit and the coarse language are huge indicators of that.

 

[Glix]

Both are terrible in their own ways.

I was harassed because South Park helped normalize and popularize homophobic slurs. I'm sure, and someone mentioned already, that they knew someone who was harassed because they were Jewish and South Park made anti-semitic jokes.

Maybe it's not their intent to encourage harassment, but it was a result and they've never, as far as I know took responsibility for that side effect
(Which reminds me, that George Zimmerman episode was horribly executed, like, yikes).

I just don't find South Park to be funny.

Im sorry if you suffered but the boldes is just as wrong as it gets. I was 18 when south park came out and kids had been calling me a fag since elementary school.

 

[Apathy]

One actually understands how to do satire, the other is pewdiepie

 

[Bronx-Man]

There are two kinds of jokes in play here:

Joke A: Jews sucks.

Audience A: Haha yeah jews do suck


Joke B: Jews sucks.

Audience B: haha holy shit how can anyone say that with a straight face you're horrible


In Joke A, the target of the joke are the jews. It meant to bring attention to them, and have people laugh at them.

In Joke B, the target of the joke is the joker. It's meant to bring attention to himself, as a horrible person, and make the audience laugh at him.



PDP is Joke A.

South Park is (typically) Joke B.

Spot on.

 

[Megalosaro]

Cartman is the most popular character on the show, because he's a piece of shit.

The comic book villain The Joker is heavily merchandised as well. Are the comic book writers trying to push a "pro" Joker agenda?

Yup. That is the first thing that came to mind when I saw that post too.

Cartman is very VERY rarely shown as being "right".

 

[NoblesseOblige]

To everyone in here saying that it's different because Cartman is the villain and you're supposed to hate him...

That's nonsense.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise. You are not supposed to hate Cartman -- you're supposed to buy a mug with his face on it. The writers are leveraging antisemitism for comedic effect, just like PewDiePie was doing. You can argue (as I would) that South Park is more skilled at doing this, but the intent is no different.

We buy merch with villains all the time.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Im sorry if you suffered but the boldes is just as wrong as it gets. I was 18 when south park came out and kids had been calling me a fag since elementary school.

I don't think it's alleged that SP created a situation where fag was acceptable, but I think it contributed to it.

 

[Matt]

Isn't Milo Greek? He'd be one of the first ever Jewish Greeks I've ever heard of. I was always under the impression that outside converting later, Greeks are all effectively Orthodox. The religious ones anyway.

Something happened about 75 years ago that made that the case.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

To everyone in here saying that it's different because Cartman is the villain and you're supposed to hate him...

That's nonsense.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise. You are not supposed to hate Cartman -- you're supposed to buy a mug with his face on it. The writers are leveraging antisemitism for comedic effect, just like PewDiePie was doing. You can argue (as I would) that South Park is more skilled at doing this, but the intent is no different.

Michael Scott is the most popular character in The Office...but he's also a terrible boss and a complete dumbass and no one within their right mind would ever run a company like he does.

Loving to hate people, or loving to laugh at their incompetence/ignorance, are tried and true comedy tropes. Even pro-wrestling will have fans of the heels who boo them viciously or cheer them ironically.

It's already been pointed out, but there's a world of difference between plainly making minorities the butt of your joke and making ignorance towards minorities the butt of the joke. South Park is clearly the latter. Is PDP? If not, the analogy falls short, and he'll have to stand on his own merits.

 

[timetokill]

The responses of "... but the children!" are completely off the mark. It's not a show for kids. Furthermore, kids will insult other kids regardless of where they get the insults from.

South Park is clearly satire, and the rationale for suggesting that it's anti-semitic would make a great deal of the world's best satire a hate crime.

He's the main character of the series. He's the most popular character in the series. He's on all the t-shirts, mousepads and other merchandise.

Damn man I guess that's why they never sell Darth Vader merchandise huh


oh wait

 

[Infinite]

I don't think South Park is inherently anti-semetic, however I do think that their humor has sort of increased the amount of anti-semetism in the world.

A 12-year-old watching isn't likely to think "The stupid psychopath character is anti-semetic; that's funny." They just hear "Shut up, Jew," laugh, then repeat on XBox Live without even thinking about it. Then they grow up and keep repeating it until it's normal and not really a joke anymore.

It's an unfortunate, unintended side-effect, but it's there.

I definitely agree with this

 

[acheron_xl]

I imagine at worst it's like the situation Dave Chappelle found himself in. Making very pointed jokes that found their way, context-less, into the mouths of people who didn't understand the joke.

 

[Copper]

No more anti sematic than PewDiePie

 

[Cyframe]

Im sorry if you suffered but the boldes is just as wrong as it gets. I was 18 when south park came out and kids had been calling me a fag since elementary school.

My experience can't be wrong because other kids would quote cartman and other characters from the show to harass me. Granted that wasn't the only factor of abuse and homophobia but it added to it. Thanks for dismissing me.

The problem with these so-called satire comedy shows is that,certain people aren't or willing to look at certain audience members who don't just leave the jokes with the show. They want to be popular, so they quote shows like that.

And, if the only thing a person can say is "sorry, it's satire", that's not good enough for me. I'm not saying the show should be canceling or anything. But when someone literally tells you about their own experiences and this is the type of response they get. It's a problem.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

This is something people don't realize. Not everyone can see the satire, especially kids.

If all comedy had to be adjusted for the lowest common denominator, it would be the death of comedy.

The context of South Park and its jewish jokes are:
1. Eric's an asshole and you're laughing at him.
2. They mock every religion.
3. The moral of their stories are never "look how stupid jewish people are".

Pewdiepie's joke on the other hand came off as the following:
1. Rich white dude pays poor people to make anti-semitic statements.

The joke could've worked very well if it was better executed. Shining a light on class differences and the exploitations of poor people by the rich elite.

Basically; it could've been a joke hitting up, when it came off as hitting down.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Damn man I guess that's why they never sell Darth Vader merchandise huh


oh wait

Ha!

 

[Jennings]

South Park is one of the very best things TV has had to offer for the last 20 years.

 

[Shanks D Zoro]

Just watch The Passion of the Jew to see what they think of anti-semites. It ends with a crazy Mel Gibson shitting in Adolf Cartman's face.

 

[watership]

Because making a joke to make someone laugh, while using something horrible.. is comedy.. but making a joke to offend and shock, then saying "ha ha, it's all jokes you idiots" is a lack of imagination and using something racist/sexist without needing too.

A good example of this.. if not the best, is Mel Brooks' The Producers. The idea of doing a musical about Hitler is insanity, and that's why it's funny. The characters acknowledge it's insanity. And yet, making a Hitler sitcom called "Heil Honey I'm Home!" (serious, it came out in the 1990s in the UK) was a pointless uses of Hitler and racism. It's all how it's done. It's not easy to do. and doing it poorly, makes you come out looking like a doing jokes for shock value, rather than for real laughs.

 

[His Majesty]

Yes. the butt of all their jokes are jews. just because one of your characters is a jew doesn't mean its okay. its like saying i have a black friend, so its okay to say nigger.

they make jokes about all faiths

so no

 

[Glix]

I don't think it's alleged that SP created a situation where fag was acceptable, but I think it contributed to it.

Really? How old are you?

Calling things you dont like "gay" and calling people "fags" has been going on in playgrounds since my youth.

One of south parks earliest episodes is about how being gay is not a choice.

South park has had nothing to do with it

 

[EmiPrime]

If people are too dumb to tell they're being made fun of that's not the fault of the artist. I think most leftists got the point that PC Principal was a character to be mocked, not emulated.

If SP has normalized anything it would be all of the characters' ubiquitous use of the words "fag" or "gay" as a slur, even if the show has been relatively progressive towards LGBT.

It doesn't matter what the intent was, if it's harming Jewish kids more than it is shaming/exposing racists and Neo-Nazis then it has failed as satire. This is partly why Alan Partridge works as satire of Daily Mail reading Little Englanders and why Cartman/SP doesn't.

As for the bolded, no, it really hasn't.

 

[Glix]

My experience can't be wrong because other kids would quote cartman and other characters from the show to harass me. Granted that wasn't the only factor of abuse and homophobia but it added to it. Thanks for dismissing me.

The problem with these so-called satire comedy shows is that,certain people aren't or willing to look at certain audience members who don't just leave the jokes with the show. They want to be popular, so they quote shows like that.

And, if the only thing a person can say is "sorry, it's satire", that's not good enough for me. I'm not saying the show should be canceling or anything. But when someone literally tells you about their own experiences and this is the type of response they get. It's a problem.

Im not dismissing you at all. Im just saying that the same thing would have happened to you even if south park never existed.

And that sucks.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

It doesn't matter what the intent was, if it's harming Jewish kids more than it is shaming/exposing racists and Neo-Nazis then it has failed as satire. This is partly why Alan Partridge works as satire of Daily Mail reading Little Englanders and why Cartman/SP doesn't.

As for the bolded, no, it really hasn't.

But it's not, and it doesn't.

 

[Cyframe]

I don't think South Park is inherently anti-semetic, however I do think that their humor has sort of increased the amount of anti-semetism in the world.

A 12-year-old watching isn't likely to think "The stupid psychopath character is anti-semetic; that's funny." They just hear "Shut up, Jew," laugh, then repeat on XBox Live without even thinking about it. Then they grow up and keep repeating it until it's normal and not really a joke anymore.

It's an unfortunate, unintended side-effect, but it's there.

And it's not addressed.

It's comparable to Huck Finn, where the book is an anti-racist piece but kids that I went to school with used the book as an excuse to use the n-word and target me and others with it.

EDIT:

Im not dismissing you at all. Im just saying that the same thing would have happened to you even if south park never existed.

And that sucks.

Then, if you aren't dismissing me, then you would have read that kids used the show, directly to torment me with it. But you state, it would have happened anyway, so...that sounds pretty dismissing to me.

Look at the person I quoted. The creators may not have intended certain things to happen, but it did.

It's comparable to Trump's rhetoric, where kids took what he said and used that language to harass other students, even if they don't understand the consequences of the words.

 

[MKIL65]

-snip-

I did not bring Pewdiepie up once.

Lionel Mandrake wrote a better post about the issue than me.

 

[Betty]

Yes. the butt of all their jokes are jews. just because one of your characters is a jew doesn't mean its okay. its like saying i have a black friend, so its okay to say nigger.

You could not be more wrong

 

[msdstc]

LOL. Matt stone is Jewish. The character of Kyle is entirely based on him and Cartman is the asshole(s) who made fun of him. It's satire that completely eviscerates Nazis by making morons the face of their movement.

 

[Infinite]

This discussion made me think of the time Chris Rock retired a routine he used to do because he felt it gave racists license to use the n-word.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

This discussion made me think of the time Chris Rock retired a routine he used to do because he felt it gave racists license to use the n-word.

No one called Chris Rock a racist for that bit either. So yeah, they're actually pretty similar.

It's all people with edgy racial humor that gets misunderstood by idiots.

 

[Real Hero]

The worst thing about so many critics of south park is you can tell they read some opinion (anti semantic, no depth, pro trump, only ever take the middle ground) in some forum or blog post and just repeat it over and over. There's very rarely an engagement with actual content of an episode because they have only watched like 5 episodes

 

[Regulus Tera]

There's a difference between laughing at Jews and laughing and people at the absurdity of people who laughs at Jews. Context is important. Rarely does South Park present Cartman as a figure to exalt.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Really? How old are you?

Calling things you dont like "gay" and calling people "fags" has been going on in playgrounds since my youth.

One of south parks earliest episodes is about how being gay is not a choice.

South park has had nothing to do with it

I literally did not write a single letter in any post in this thread that contributed to the slightest implication that kids did not use homophobic slurs before South Park used them. Reply to what I say, not what you want me to have said.

The fact that the slur was popular before South Park does not mean that its usage in South Park cannot exacerbate the problem further. Chris Rock saw it happen with racial slurs, as did Dave Chappelle.

 

[Infinite]

No one called Chris Rock a racist for that bit either. So yeah, they're actually pretty similar.

It's all people with edgy racial humor that gets misunderstood by idiots.

Well no one is calling Trey and Matt anti-semites to be fair

 

[glow]

The episode with the Jewish alien TV producers did nothing but perpetuate stereotypes about Jews in Hollywood and in general. I want one of you Cartman-hating South Park fans to defend the portrayal in that episode. Or, better yet, the one with Kyle's cousin. Please. 😐 You can defend it like a lot of people do with comedy and say "They're jokes. Don't take it so seriously" or you can fess up and call it what it is- offensive and hurtful.