Do you guys consider South Park anti-semitic?

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The responses of "... but the children!" are completely off the mark. It's not a show for kids. Furthermore, kids will insult other kids regardless of where they get the insults from.

South Park is clearly satire, and the rationale for suggesting that it's anti-semitic would make a great deal of the world's best satire a hate crime.




Damn man I guess that's why they never sell Darth Vader merchandise huh


oh wait

I don't really think that the comparison is sound. Cartman isn't Darth Vader, or The Joker; hell, he's a worse person than Red Skull. None of these characters are defined, at least in modern times, on their hatred of people based on race, gender, sexuality, etc.

The episode with the Jewish alien TV producers did nothing but perpetuate stereotypes about Jews in Hollywood and in general. I want one of you Cartman-hating South Park fans to defend the portrayal in that episode. Or, better yet, the one with Kyle's cousin. Please. �� You can defend it like a lot of people do with comedy and say "They're jokes. Don't take it so seriously" or you can fess up and call it what it is- offensive and hurtful.

I think it is a problem yeah, of racially stereotypes being used in design rather than in action. I do not think that intention is there, but the outcome is that stereotypes are perpetuated. As an example, in all of the pictures I've seen, Caitlyn Jenner seems... a lot more exaggerated in her masculinity, and her face seems like it exaggerates features than a lot of other public figures.
 
Well no one is calling Trey and Matt anti-semites to be fair

Isn't that implied by calling them alt-right? That's my take away anyway, or maybe I just associate alt-right with pretty much every -ism that exists. It's my understanding it is a catch-all to describe shite people. I should add a catch-all that said shite people subscribe to by choice.
 
I've never jived with their overly crude brand of humor, but Matt and Trey are self described equal opportunity offenders. They make fun of everyone and anyone.

I feel like their intent is clearly separated from any real message of hatred or intolerance.
 
This discussion made me think of the time Chris Rock retired a routine he used to do because he felt it gave racists license to use the n-word.

I remember that. It was his Black people and n-word(s) routine. Racists latched onto it and used it because they believed that there is a difference between Black people and n-words. So his joke was used against fellow Black people, and he smartly said, I'm gonna retire it.
 
No, though I recognize people have used its humor for their own antisemtism.

I've personally had people use the "jew gold" line on my but I still don't feel that that joke was antisemtic because in context it was about the absurdity of cartman's antisemtism.

Family guy has had openly antisemtic content though and Mort Goldman is horrible and tends to be used antisemeticly. Gerald Sheila on the other hand aren't even though they both are very obviously jewish characters.
 
Isn't that implied by calling them alt-right? That's my take away anyway, or maybe I just associate alt-right with pretty much every -ism that exists. It's my understanding it is a catch-all to describe shite people.

Just to be clear, alt-right is a name invented by white supremacists to rebrand themselves. It's not a term invented by its opponents as a pejorative, like the "alt-left" I've heard repeated references to in the earlier PewDiePie threads.

Umm what? Multiple posts here have said they are and the title of the thread asks if they are.

Going by the OP, the title of the thread is probably using it to defend against claims that PewDiePie's videos were anti-Semitic. I don't think they genuinely believe what they're saying, they're trying to make a point by "proving" that their opponents are hypocrites.
 
Well no one is calling Trey and Matt anti-semites to be fair

Umm what? Multiple posts here have said they are and the title of the thread asks if they are.

Edit- chriiiist now people are calling Matt and Trey alt right?! Again Matt is fucking Jewish.
 
Then, if you aren't dismissing me, then you would have read that kids used the show, directly to torment me with it. But you state, it would have happened anyway, so...that sounds pretty dismissing to me.

Look at the person I quoted. The creators may not have intended certain things to happen, but it did.

It's comparable to Trump's rhetoric, where kids took what he said and used that language to harass other students, even if they don't understand the consequences of the words.

You stated that south park normalized homophobic slurs. This is factually not true and I specified that it was what I was responding to.

If you watch media from the 80s, or have other sources besides myself to talk to about the history of homophobia in this country you will find out that all of that was normalized for decades before matt and trey were even born.

While I have genuine sympathy for your formative years and what you went through, if we scrubbed all media of things children could take out of context and then use to hurt other children, there would be no media.

There was a kid in my elementary school who mse family was not well off and he would have old hand me down clothes and stuff. The kids would call him Pigpen, or Oscar.
 
Just to be clear, alt-right is a name invented by white supremacists to rebrand themselves. It's not a term invented by its opponents as a pejorative, like the "alt-left" I've heard repeated references to in the earlier PewDiePie threads.

Yeah, I thought/knew as much. Hence why I feel it's a little disingenuous when South Park/Matt and Trey get called alt-right. I haven't seen it often, but there has been the odd post here and there on GAF mentioning alt-right and SP in the same sentence. Calling them alt-right pretty much would suggest anti-semites by association due to what the alt-right movement is.
 
Umm what? Multiple posts here have said they are and the title of the thread asks if they are.

I think Infinite is using "no one" in the sense of "barely anyone." Also, I took the OP as doing a "double standards much" over South Park vs. PewDiePie, so basically a devil's advocate thing.
 
All the "they make fun of everyone" isn't a good defense of problematic content.

The better defense is who south park is targeting and 9 times out of 10 its the person who is racist, or antisemtic, homophobic, etc that is the target of the joke.

That's not to say people can't object to the content or rightfully fear that this type of humor can dehumanize the person being used as a kind of object to make a joke at the other persons (the racists) expense.
 
I don't really think that the comparison is sound. Cartman isn't Darth Vader, or The Joker; hell, he's a worse person than Red Skull. None of these characters are defined, at least in modern times, on their hatred of people based on race, gender, sexuality, etc.



I think it is a problem yeah, of racially stereotypes being used in design rather than in action. I do not think that intention is there, but the outcome is that stereotypes are perpetuated. As an example, in all of the pictures I've seen, Caitlyn Jenner seems... a lot more exaggerated in her masculinity, and her face seems like it exaggerates features than a lot of other public figures.

Wait. Red Skull the NAZI? You sure about that?
 
A thousand times no. They make fun of everyone but they're not racist/anti-semitic/bigoted like you are suggesting. If you really think they are, you don't have much exposure to the show or are forcing an agenda that's not there.
 
Most of the anti-semitic sentiment in SP is through Cartman, a character that is the epitomy of that shithead kid in your school that nobody liked. So, no.
 
I am not a comic reader, but from what I understand from MCU, Red Skull was Hydra and not a Nazi (I mean he was a Nazi, but he went against the party in favor of his own), and in fact disliked Nazis. Correct me if I am wrong.

Your point original point stands but hes not the best example of "not hating due to color or religion."

Also vader/empire is wildly racist and xenophobic but thats EU stuff so i guess it doesnt really factor in here.

Johann Schmidt was a Nazi general officer and confidant of Adolf Hitler. He has been closely affiliated with Hydra and is an enemy of S.H.I.E.L.D., the Avengers, and the interests of the United States and the free world in general. He was physically augmented by having his mind placed into the body of a clone of Captain America, the pinnacle of human perfection. He has been seemingly killed in the past, only to return time and time again to plague the world with schemes of world domination and genocide
.
 
It's pretty crazy to me how the scope of comedy has changed so much over the past couple of years. I think the beauty of comedy is that no group is absolved from being made fun of, everyone is on the same ground. Just because you poke at a certain topic a few times (or let's be honest, several times) doesn't mean you are effectively against that group.

It's tough to judge comedy, but you can definitely tell the difference between a running joke and a joke coming from a place of deep hatred. I don't think SP has ever attacked Jewish people an absurdly malicious way.
 
Ginger kids is the one time I can easily recall feeling that South Park crossed the line and actually started and contributed to a real world problem rather than simply being utilized by stupid people who would already otherwise engage in discriminatory behavior towards others and were using that as a popular veneer.

They've generally always been good about making a clear satirical line when doing jokes about Jews, gays, girls, etc with a resolution outlining why it's bad. But Ginger kids really introduced a whole new level of stuff and an air of acceptability to othering redheads in real life that wasn't there before.

I was only 10 when South Park first aired and have been watching it ever since. It was never hard to understand the edgy jokes and satire. It was always very clear to me what the messages were and how or why much of what was said and done was really not OK. If anything South Park was a show that made me think about a lot issues and things beyond myself at an age where I otherwise probably wouldn't have considered that stuff at all.

But yeah Ginger Kids is easily one of their worst offenses on the grand scheme for me.
 
Your point original point stands but hes not the best example of "not hating due to color or religion."

Also vader/empire is wildly racist and xenophobic but thats EU stuff so i guess it doesnt really factor in here.

I meant to say only Vader and Joker don't hate based on those things.

As far as Vader, Vader's racism and xenophobia is fictional, so it's not really a fair comparison to Cartman's. Vader's also a tragic villain who is redeemed, while Cartman is unredeemably shitty.
 
It's pretty crazy to me how the scope of comedy has changed so much over the past couple of years. I think the beauty of comedy is that no group is absolved from being made fun of, everyone is on the same ground. Just because you poke at a certain topic a few times (or let's be honest, several times) doesn't mean you are effectively against that group.

It's tough to judge comedy, but you can definitely tell the difference between a running joke and a joke coming from a place of deep hatred. I don't think SP has ever attacked Jewish people an absurdly malicious way.

I would actually say that they did attack Mormons pretty hard, but by using only their actual beliefs and not exaggerating things, they are shielded.
 
It's insane how satire goes right over so many people's heads. Depicting a bigot, especially one as loathsome as Cartman, is not the equivalent of condoning bigotry. It's generally quite the opposite.

Was PewDewPie being satirical? (I honestly don't know -- or care -- what he did.)
 
Ginger kids is the one time I can easily recall feeling that South Park crossed the line and actually started and contributed to a real world problem rather than simply being utilized by stupid people who would already otherwise engage in discriminatory behavior towards others and were using that as a popular veneer.

To be perfectly honest, that's another example where Cartman is the only one with misguided opinions on gingers. Kyle and Stan actually do the research on the scientific/biological explanation for red hair and freckles and see that it's a harmless genetic characteristic. Cartman is the one in that episode parading hate speech around and marginalizing them as a separate and lesser demographic.
 
You stated that south park normalized homophobic slurs. This is factually not true and I specified that it was what I was responding to.

If you watch media from the 80s, or have other sources besides myself to talk to about the history of homophobia in this country you will find out that all of that was normalized for decades before matt and trey were even born.

While I have genuine sympathy for your formative years and what you went through, if we scrubbed all media of things children could take out of context and then use to hurt other children, there would be no media.

There was a kid in my elementary school who mse family was not well off and he would have old hand me down clothes and stuff. The kids would call him Pigpen, or Oscar.

Enough.

I'm gay. I know that South Park wasn't the first or the last TV show to use gay slurs. But they did help normalize them. The show was popular, and kids took that media and internalized that language. An unintended consequence perhaps but a consequence nonetheless. And your response to that is a shrug and a half-hearted sympathy (to me anyway).

I'm not asking, (and I even said this before) for the show to be banned, but when someone says, I'm being harassed and this is a source for that, people (the creators) in this case have to address it. And other viewers shouldn't be so quick to dismiss or pretend that I of all people am unaware of the history of homophobia (give me a break).

Chris Rock noted that his comedy was being misused and made a change. They don't have to do that. But, it's so tiresome to hear, it's just humor when kids get harassed. Please pay attention to what I'm saying before you respond next time, with all due respect.
 
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