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[hipsterpants]

I think the solution to MCU villians is just... better writing? To take from Spider-Man 2, you have:

- Brief introduction scene (30 minutes into the movie!) that immediately makes him an interesting and tragic character (since you know what will happen)
- Spooky hospital scene
- Ties directly into the movie's theme/Peter's arc
- Memorable ending where he sacrifices himself

In terms of actual screentime and movie presence, he really doesn't do that much. But the writing turns him into a top 3 superhero movie villain easily.

 

[Timu]

Watching this day one...can't wait, Marvel is killing it!!!

 

[brandonh83]

Do people think it would be wise to opt into seeing this in 3D over 2D then? I haven't actively chosen to see a film in 3D over 2D in years.

I'm indifferent toward 3D mostly, I'm fine either way but some movies seem tailor-made to be seen in 3D and I'd say this is one of them. I guess I'm mostly indifferent because I don't live close to a great IMAX, there are two within driving distance but they're kinda bottom-tier. Still decent, but not good enough to make me absolutely prefer it.

But I'll be seeing this in IMAX 3D for sure.

I think the solution to MCU villians is just... better writing? To take from Spider-Man 2, you have:

Exactly this, and with having a "universe" spanning many films, there is absolutely no excuse as to how mediocre they've been. You'd think this would be some epic thing with some of the best villains out there but that's not the case; bigly sad when they're so good in the source material.

Like imagine if you had villains written as well as Ock, but in multiple movies and not necessarily a one-off. It would really just be incredible.

p.s. this track right here, this fucking thing here is amazing

 

[shira]

Do people think it would be wise to opt into seeing this in 3D over 2D then? I haven't actively chosen to see a film in 3D over 2D in years.

Saw the IMAX 3D 15 minute preview.
It's pretty intense for action.
There's a lot of fun tricks they do with 3D without it being shot in 3D like Avatar.

 

[brandonh83]

btw how action heavy is this supposed to be and is the action shot competently? Any word on that? Kind of a big deal for me. Not necessarily the amount of action but the nature of the thing has my hopes up for some killer or at least unique action sequences.

 

[Blade30]

Jesus 24 minutes are his reviews normally this big? That length is not a review its a in-depth plot analysis.

Yes, everyone gives their thoughts on the movie pro and cons, that's why it's so long.

I think the solution to MCU villians is just... better writing?

Well yeah, but first of all they would have to give the villains higher priority/more focus because right now they are being sidelined as stepping stones for the next mcu movie.

 

[BumRush]

I'm also in the "villains need to be written better" camp but I do think there's something about comic book movies and screen time that makes it extremely difficult to have well-developed villains. The joker is the best example of an amazing villain (TDK), and although he was written well he was also in enough scenes to develop.

 

[DevilFox]

DC:

Teach me

This has been my most hyped film since the start of the year.

You gave me this idea. No bad feeling DC fans, just playing
Here the movie will release the 26th. I've my ticket ready, obv. I am hyped as fuck since they revealed Cumberbatch as Dr Strange, I just love everything he does.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

p.s. this track right here, this fucking thing here is amazing

I swear I heard this in Shovel Knight.

 

[ratcliffja]

Doc Ock is one of my all time favorite comic book villains. That guy in SM2 was in no way Doc Ock. I can't believe people love that campy mess.

 

[brandonh83]

I swear I heard this in Shovel Knight.

I know exactly what you're talking about! SK had great music.

Doc Ock is one of my all time favorite comic book villains. That guy in SM2 was in no way Doc Ock. I can't believe people love that campy mess.

I can believe that you don't

 

[icespide]

my biggest issue with doc ock is that the arms were controling him

 

[torre_avenue]

Do people think it would be wise to opt into seeing this in 3D over 2D then? I haven't actively chosen to see a film in 3D over 2D in years.

Absolutely.

I highly recommend seeing it in both IMAX and 3D because, believe me, when the magical mystery tour starts, there are just some things Strange sees that you absolutely have to see on IMAX to get the scale of it and in 3D to see just how Marvel layered such depth into those realms.

It's beautiful and I strongly urge you to watch it in that format. I'm sure 2D won't alter that sequence's impact, but it seems like such a IMAX-worthy thing to see.

 

[ratcliffja]

my biggest issue with doc ock is that the arms were controling him

Right. Dude is just an evil guy. Spider-Man has lots of conflicted villains if they wanted to go that route.

 

[Elandyll]

Aw yesss!

Can't wait ...

 

[SpaceWolf]

Absolutely.

I highly recommend seeing it in both IMAX and 3D because, believe me, when the magical mystery tour starts, there are just some things Strange sees that you absolutely have to see on IMAX to get the scale of it and in 3D to see just how Marvel layered such depth into those realms.

It's beautiful and I strongly urge you to watch it in that format. I'm sure 2D won't alter that sequence's impact, but it seems like such a IMAX-worthy thing to see.

Oh fantastic! There's an IMAX cinema in the next town over from where I am and I was debating with myself whether it was worth the trouble of going down there to see it there instead of at my local cinema, so you might just have tipped the scales for me! Thanks!

 

[Litan]

btw how action heavy is this supposed to be and is the action shot competently? Any word on that? Kind of a big deal for me. Not necessarily the amount of action but the nature of the thing has my hopes up for some killer or at least unique action sequences.

I've read all 14 reviews so far and the action is one of the most praised aspects of the movie. I don't think you'll have to worry on that front.

 

[guek]

I'm also in the "villains need to be written better" camp but I do think there's something about comic book movies and screen time that makes it extremely difficult to have well-developed villains. The joker is the best example of an amazing villain (TDK), and although he was written well he was also in enough scenes to develop.

It helps when the villain is much more interesting than the hero. See also: the first Thor

 

[brandonh83]

my biggest issue with doc ock is that the arms were controling him

Well, okay, I'll be fair. I'm not really a purist when it comes to anything so I guess I just can't relate to people being upset that things end up being a bit different on film. But that's what happens when you adapt to film, hire performers, etc. For me the performance and just how well its written overrides everything else that may not be spot-on from the material and filmmakers have to sort of make adjustments to get things to work better on-screen.

So when people complain about changes, or the arms controlling him, or Peter taking his mask off, none of that registers in my mind as something worth being upset over if the execution is solid.

 

[LionPride]

Doc Ock is one of my all time favorite comic book villains. That guy in SM2 was in no way Doc Ock. I can't believe people love that campy mess.

my biggest issue with doc ock is that the arms were controling him

Right. Dude is just an evil guy. Spider-Man has lots of conflicted villains if they wanted to go that route.

THANK YOU! Otto Octavius is an evil bitch right? His character at his core is something that was not presented in that movie, Alfred Molina played him superbly but holy shit that wasn't Doc Ock at all

 

[What did he mean by this?]

If youre going to the Airbus Real Imax in Chantilly VA for the midnight premiere lets have a GAf meetup!

Im kidding! Dont talk to me

 

[icespide]

I'm also in the "villains need to be written better" camp but I do think there's something about comic book movies and screen time that makes it extremely difficult to have well-developed villains. The joker is the best example of an amazing villain (TDK), and although he was written well he was also in enough scenes to develop.

Joker also had the benefit of already being pretty well known and established for the general audience

 

[Stinkles]

"Stinkles, it's me, Stinkles, but I'm from the future."

"WTF happened to our hair?"

"That's not important right now. I need to talk to you about the future."

"OK, It's 1980 dude, which is pretty futuristic. how can it get better than Atari?"

"You know all those comics you love? Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Starlord, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Superman, Fantastic Four, Thor, Avengers, Hulk? They're all going to have good-to amazing movies and also you will be able to put on a helmet and play video games that look more or less like real life. And cars can be powered by the sun and drive themselves."

"Well to be honest Superman and Fantastic Four are pretty lame. How are they gonna make them watchable? And will these cars fly? And will TVs be flat?"

"Fair enough. I exaggerated. And no, and hell yes."

"What are the lottery numbers?"

"I HAVE TO GO!"

 

[Timu]

Absolutely.

I highly recommend seeing it in both IMAX and 3D because, believe me, when the magical mystery tour starts, there are just some things Strange sees that you absolutely have to see on IMAX to get the scale of it and in 3D to see just how Marvel layered such depth into those realms.

It's beautiful and I strongly urge you to watch it in that format. I'm sure 2D won't alter that sequence's impact, but it seems like such a IMAX-worthy thing to see.

I'm so seeing this in 3D!!!

 

[SpaceWolf]

"Stinkles, it's me, Stinkles, but I'm from the future."

"WTF happened to our hair?"

"That's not important right now. I need to talk to you about the future."

"OK, It's 1980 dude, which is pretty futuristic. how can it get better than Atari?"

"You know all those comics you love? Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Starlord, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Superman, Fantastic Four, Thor, Avengers, Hulk? They're all going to have good-to amazing movies and also you will be able to put on a helmet and play video games that look more or less like real life. And cars can be powered by the sun and drive themselves."

"Well to be honest Superman and Fantastic Four are pretty lame. How are they gonna make them watchable? And will these cars fly? And will TVs be flat?"

"Fair enough. I exaggerated. And no, and hell yes."

"What are the lottery numbers?"

"I HAVE TO GO!"

Haha, so true.

 

[Litan]

Well, okay, I'll be fair. I'm not really a purist when it comes to anything so I guess I just can't relate to people being upset that things end up being a bit different on film. But that's what happens when you adapt to film, hire performers, etc. For me the performance and just how well its written overrides everything else that may not be spot-on from the material and filmmakers have to sort of make adjustments to get things to work better on-screen.

So when people complain about changes, or the arms controlling him, or Peter taking his mask off, none of that registers in my mind as something worth being upset over if the execution is solid.

For real. Even as a CMB reader, it annoys me when people complain about little changes made to comic characters. It matters to me that the core of the character is mostly there, but otherwise it's all in the execution.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

my biggest issue with doc ock is that the arms were controling him

Eh... that was done on purpose to reflect Peter Parker's arc throughout the movie. I'm honestly baffled at a lot of the love for comic movies but people seem to not get what Spider-Man 2 did right that is missing in later comic adaptions.

"To do what's right, we have to be steady and give up the thing we want the most even our dreams".

 

[torre_avenue]

"Stinkles, it's me, Stinkles, but I'm from the future."

"WTF happened to our hair?"

"That's not important right now. I need to talk to you about the future."

"OK, It's 1980 dude, which is pretty futuristic. how can it get better than Atari?"

"You know all those comics you love? Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Starlord, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, Superman, Fantastic Four, Thor, Avengers, Hulk? They're all going to have good-to amazing movies and also you will be able to put on a helmet and play video games that look more or less like real life. And cars can be powered by the sun and drive themselves."

"Well to be honest Superman and Fantastic Four are pretty lame. How are they gonna make them watchable? And will these cars fly? And will TVs be flat?"

"Fair enough. I exaggerated. And no, and hell yes."

"What are the lottery numbers?"

"I HAVE TO GO!"

Tell your 1980s self that Ant-Man, Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange, Daredevil, Jewel, Luke Cage and Iron Fist all got features or TV shows before Wonder Woman had even one live-action big budget film. A Batman movie won someone an Oscar before Wonder Woman got her own movie.

 

[inky]

Looks alright.

 

[Discotheque]

People who think any mcu movie is better than spiderman 2 are soooo off the mark

This won't be either but still these reviews sounding strong which is good to hear.

 

[icespide]

Eh... that was done on purpose to reflect Peter Parker's arc throughout the movie. I'm honestly baffled at a lot of the love for comic movies but people seem to not get what Spider-Man 2 did right that is missing in later comic adaptions.

How did that reflect his arc exactly? Honestly if they just cut out all of the inhibitor chip scenes the movie still works so I'm not really sure what you're getting at

 

[brandonh83]

Joker also had the benefit of already being pretty well known and established for the general audience

The problem with some of these villains is simply their presence and lack of screen time. And lack of conflict with the heroes. The conflict is there but it's surface-level. Guardians of the Galaxy rocks, but the villain is bland because he has absolutely zero chemistry or relationship with the protagonists and is barely in the film. Doc Ock, Joker are great villains because the scripts tie them in directly with the protag's journey and how they develop. Doc Ock was great because they treated him like an actual human being and he had a lot of screen time and even very personal conversations with Parker before he became a villain. It was parallel to Peter's losing connection with being "Spider-man" and this played off of Ock's actions in the film.

It felt like a unison and that's what made it great. Ock is just as much an antagonist as Peter is a protagonist and when you focus heavily on the protagonists but have a villain that is just sort of there in a few scenes that shows up at the end for a lame fight scene-- you do not have a strong villain.

People who think any mcu movie is better than spiderman 2 are soooo off the mark

I'll take this rare opportunity to agree with you in full.

 

[icespide]

People who think any mcu movie is better than spiderman 2 are soooo off the mark

This won't be either but still these reviews sounding strong which is good to hear. Needed another marvel movie without a bunch of cameos and appearances again

I don't think MCU is better than spidey 2 I just think spidey 2 is severely over rated

 

[ChaosZeroX]

I refuse to believe this film will be as good as Spiderman 2.

I cannot.

Agreed. Spiderman 2 hasn't been topped for me yet.

 

[Brianimaniac]

People who think any mcu movie is better than spiderman 2 are soooo off the mark

This won't be either but still these reviews sounding strong which is good to hear. Needed another marvel movie without a bunch of cameos and appearances again

Spider-Man 2's awful dialogue undercut a lot of what it did right. All that other stuff doesn't matter if you strip it away and I can't buy into your characters as people. That dialogue was every bit as awkward and unnatural as Attack of the Clones.

 

[brandonh83]

Agreed. Spiderman 2 hasn't been topped for me yet.

Not a single person has said that it's better than Spider-man 2 though.

Spider-Man 2's awful dialogue undercut a lot of what it did right. All that other stuff doesn't matter if you strip it away and I can't buy into your characters as people. That dialogue was every bit as awkward and unnatural as Attack of the Clones.

What the fuck is this

 

[Subpar Spatula]

How did that reflect his arc exactly? Honestly if they just cut out all of the inhibitor chip scenes the movie still works so I'm not really sure what you're getting at

Peter Parker spells it out right at the end. Otto's dreams are scientific breakthrough and more while Parker wants to be normal, be with Jane, etc. but they have to give those up. The entire movie follows that simple idea while adding good ol' Raimi style.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Spider-Man 2's awful dialogue undercut a lot of what it did right. All that other stuff doesn't matter if you strip it away and I can't buy into your characters as people. That dialogue was every bit as awkward and unnatural as Attack of the Clones.

Not even close...

 

[SpaceWolf]

Not a single person has said that it's better than Spider-man 2 though.

Though true, claiming that it's as "satisfying" as Spiderman 2 would indicate it's roughly comparable in terms of quality on that particular reviewer's part, no?

 

[icespide]

Peter Parker spells it out right at the end. Otto's dreams are scientific breakthrough and more while Parker wants to be normal, be with Jane, etc. but they have to give those up. The entire movie follows that simple idea while adding good ol' Raimi style.

What does any of that have to do with the inhibitor chip?

 

[brandonh83]

Though true, claiming that it's as "satisfying" as Spiderman 2 would indicate it's roughly comparable in terms of quality, no?

Nobody said that either.

“Doctor Strange” is Marvel’s most satisfying entry since “Spider-Man 2,”

 

[Jarmel]

Marvel cinema villains feel neutered in a PG sort of way. None of them have the visceralness of their TV counterparts who beat people to death. The Russos took the best approach which is to make your villain morally complex as a way of not being physically threatening in that manner. They did have Bucky too though in Winter Soldier who had a level of brutality to him.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

What does any of that have to do with the inhibitor chip?

Taking control over one's life? He literally does that right at the end so does Parker. Have you even seen Spider-Man 2?

 

[icespide]

Taking control over one's life? He literally does that right at the end. Have you even seen Spider-Man 2?

Eh we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally I think you're reading a bit too much into it. Yes I've seen spider-man 2 lots of times

 

[brandonh83]

Train scene is the best action scene in a comic film and yep I've seen Civil War

 

[Prompto]

Train scene is the best action scene in a comic film and yep I've seen Civil War

Amen.

 

[torre_avenue]

Oh fantastic! There's an IMAX cinema in the next town over from where I am and I was debating with myself whether it was worth the trouble of going down there to see it there instead of at my local cinema, so you might just have tipped the scales for me! Thanks!

I'm so seeing this in 3D!!!

I hope I haven't oversold you on it, but I honestly thought it had some of the best visuals in a big blockbuster since "Inception." The two trippy sequences they showed sold me on it for sure.

 

[watership]

I think the solution to MCU villians is just... better writing?

The villain being so important is only because we have come to think movies are only as good as it's villains. Marvels focus on the characters and circumstance makes the villains part of the plot and not only dynamic.

Superhero movies used to live and die based on the villians, much like a Bond film. Not so much anymore. The movies have moved beyond that, especially something like Cap: Civil War.

 

[brandonh83]

Amen.

I mean the airport scene rocked and was very long and well-staged... but it never really hit a climax IMO. The train scene has multiple layers to it that keep stacking and I love how the music starts as action music as they're fighting but then becomes this sort of heartbeat rhythm as he's trying to stop the train. And it ends on a fantastic character moment.

 

[Stinkles]

Tell your 1980s self that Ant-Man, Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange, Daredevil, Jewel, Luke Cage and Iron Fist all got features or TV shows before Wonder Woman had even one live-action big budget film. A Batman movie won someone an Oscar before Wonder Woman got her own movie.

Wonder Woman was a smash hit tv series at the time though.