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Doctor Who Off-Season | Hey Missy, you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind
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peanutbutterlatte
Member
I was just so sour on Tennant by the End of Time. Just so bored. I loved him as a Doctor, but the stories he was in were soooo variable.
That line stuck out during my first watch. But considering the way the previews for the finale were edited, I'd say it was inserted as a line to fuel the Clara = Missy theories.So...this might mean nothing, oh who am I kidding it probably means nothing, but I noticed something kind of...odd last night.
I was writing in bed last night and had Doctor Who on in the background, Listen specifically, when a bit of dialog knocked me out of what I was doing and made me rewind to make sure I'd heard it right. It was from the scene where Clara goes back to her date with Danny after having seen his childhood. It goes.
DANNY: I don't know what to say.
CLARA: Then don't say anything...or say something nice.
Emphasis mine. Yeah, probably just a quirk of Moffat's writing for women, but it just struck me as odd/uncomfortable/bizzare that Clara would use Missy's exact catchphrase on her first date with Danny.
10 seasons and 3 movies!8 years. Go on. You can beat Tom.
paradox121
Member
Problem with Smith's final run is that now I have a feeling they were holding back on the ideas for the specials + the next Doctor. Shame really, he was outstanding with the right material and managed to elevate a lot of the weaker scripts too.
It's interesting actually that both the 10th and 11th Doctors suffer in their final few episodes from their respective show runners trying to build to something. Both have 'big' standalone episodes prior to them leaving that are of questionable quality (50th excluded) and then a finale that tries to bring everything together in one way or the other.
I think both Doctors suffered greatly from being taken out of their comfort zones and having no interesting foils to bounce off of. The 10th Doctor is alone and so his narcissistic, melodramatic traits tend to show through most, and the 11th Doctor is away from Amy and Rory who essentially kept his manic, childlike tendencies down.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I thought that Tennant had been written to the point of leaving, but if they'd delayed that arc a year or two I would not have minded.
I cannot comment on Smith since I never much liked him in the role.
I cannot comment on Smith since I never much liked him in the role.
I think 3-4 years is a good run time for a Doctor. I don't really feel like either Tennant or Smith ever wore out their welcome, though I think if either of them had done an additional year on top of what they already did, it might start to feel that way.
Agreed. It's long enough that we get to really explore that version of the character and don't feel cheated like I still kinda do with the Ninth and definitely do with the Eighth. It's short enough that you don't feel like later seasons are the TV equivalent of Greatest Hits Mixed Tapes.
Also, I don't want to see Tom's record broken, both for practical and sentimental reasons.
"You might be a doctor, but I'm The Doctor. The genuine article, you might say."
As an aside, my cold, near-Vulcan father got a heart-warming twinkle in his eye when they played the clip that quote is from during Capaldi's announcement as the new Doctor. No secret who my dad's Doctor of choice is...
Edit: Bonus points if you hear the quote with Tom's inflections inserted every time you look at it.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Actually, no, I want the record broken by the first female Doctor.
APZonerunner
Member
I thought that Tennant had been written to the point of leaving, but if they'd delayed that arc a year or two I would not have minded.
I cannot comment on Smith since I never much liked him in the role.
I think the thing about Tennant's run is that RTD always had a four year plan (Daleks/Cybermen/Master/Davros) and had a very clear view of what his run was going to look like from start to finish from as early as 2005. He, Gardner and Tennant made the pact to leave together when he was cast, too, so that was in place as early as 2005 also. But then... that plan went a bit wrong.
The original intention was actually for the show to end, at least for a while. During the early planning for Series 3 when RTD was rather ill/overworked and made clear he intended to go, the BBC was considering winding the show down for an undetermined break period (that could've been a year, it could've been ten) after RTD left, but then a few things happened: RTD said he wanted the series to continue without him and campaigned fiercely for it, Series 3 did incredibly well, Blink underlined who the obvious successor should be, and Voyage of the Damned's incredible 13.3 million viewers (still not beaten to this day) also happened, and that was that - Series 5 was definitely going to happen, with or without RTD.
The intent THEN was for the show to have a year off for the new production team (which would of course be Moffat's crew) to get settled, but then there was a slew of events including some new people moving into jobs who weren't aware of the plans. When they found out about those plans, they panicked, the idea of no Doctor Who for a year unacceptable. They then begged RTD to stay and said if he didn't they'd rush Moffat's series through, and knowing what a huge task Moffat was undertaking and how he'd need breathing room, RTD agreed to stay. It's likely at this stage Tennant had already put pen to paper (or at least verbally agreed) to do Hamlet, so there was no way he could do another full series, nor did RTD really want to do one.
The end result was the agreement to do a limited run, which resulted in the five episode specials run at the end of Series 4 in 2009. All this is in the Writers' Tale, with RTD writing furious ranting emails (reproduced mostly uncensored) about the BBC's wobble over a plan they'd agreed to multiple times over in the past.
Some of this can be seen in the show: If you think about Journey's End, a story RTD conceived well in advance, you can see how it might've been the ultimate end for the show for a period and then, later, the ultimate end for the Tenth Doctor. But then it wasn't. It's not like the script was written as an exit - by the time pen was put to paper, all that wobbling was a good year in the past - but certainly when it was conceived in RTD's mind it was as a goodbye.
In there I think the problem with Tennant's exit sits; the episodes feel like an extension on a building that is already standing; it looks good and provides some extra room, but if you look closely you can see the joins and see it was 'built' after the rest. It doesn't QUITE fit. There's small signs that this is the case: The 'knock four times' arc is the only one not mentioned in the previous series (Torchwood is mentioned in S1, Saxon in S2, The Medusa Cascade in S3 etc). The Tenth Doctor had a trajectory emotionally that was there from the start, I think, but the final descent ended up stretched out over another year and another five episodes. Things like the companion goodbye tour feel like a retread of Journey's End, too. Even the Rose thing - if he knows he's about to regenerate and thus probably no longer love her/be the man she loves, it makes a lot more sense for the Doctor to send Rose off with the metacrisis version of himself rather than ask her to come with him. As it stands now, it still doesn't really sit completely right with a lot of people, and for good reason.
That said, I could've easily taken another year of Tennant and the story synopsis for a Tenth Doctor Series 5 that Moffat tried to lure Tennant to break his pact with RTD for & stay on is genuinely marvellous. I would've loved to have seen it. The Specials Year also gave us more John Simm and The Waters of Mars, both of which are welcome, so hey ho.
With Smith, I think it's the opposite - it's clear Moffat either wasn't thinking as far ahead as RTD or he and Smith were playing it on a much more year-to-year basis. It seems like the production troubles fucked it over too... Series 7 feels awfully rushed, what with the companion departure halfway through, then a new costume, a new attitude, and the arrival of Clara. If the production problems the show suffered during S6/S7 with Moffat playing producer deletion whack-a-mole hadn't happened, we probably would've had Series 7 in 2012, Series 8 in 2013, the 50th, then now be on Series 9.
Another 13 episodes, with Amy/Rory exiting more traditionally at the end of a series and with Clara/11 getting a full 13 probably would've made his exit feel a lot smoother and given it more time to breathe. It all feels so rushed right now - shit, we didn't get rid of Amy/Rory during Series 6 properly, but now we don't want to enter the 50th/regeneration episodes without a companion the audience knows because 2010 was really hard work, and we only have the time/budget to do one series between now and then -- so let's get rid of them halfway through the series, then introduce a new companion in the second half and get to know them in time for the 50th & regeneration. It's the opposite problem to Tennant/RTD - that was stretched out 5 episodes too far thanks to the BBC's fucking about, while Smith's exit feels like it's missing a series, because we basically did lose a series thanks to production cock-ups.
True. I also remember hearing that Moffat had expected to have Smith for a whole extra year beyond what he got. I think he tried to cram everything he wanted to do with the Eleventh Doctor into what time he had left as a result. You can really feel the lack of breathing room. He probably should've just sighed and killed some things he really wanted to do, save them for his back pocket in case he has a use for them later.
Also: I think I would feel much more fondly about Tennant's era if they'd stuck to RTD's plan. Thanks a lot, BBC.
Also: I think I would feel much more fondly about Tennant's era if they'd stuck to RTD's plan. Thanks a lot, BBC.
That said, I could've easily taken another year of Tennant and the story synopsis for a Tenth Doctor Series 5 that Moffat tried to lure Tennant to break his pact with RTD for & stay on is genuinely marvellous.
Wait, what? Is this out there somewhere? I mean the story that there was one has been around for a while, but I've never seen even a cursory explanation of what it was.
Wait, what? Is this out there somewhere? I mean the story that there was one has been around for a while, but I've never seen even a cursory explanation of what it was.
From Doctor Who Magazine:
I only had the roughest idea. Had David stayed for one final year, it would certainly have been his last, so my pitch was that it would start with the Tardis crashing in Amelias back garden as now and a terribly battered and bruised Tenth Doctor staggering out.
Amelia finds him, feeds him fish custard (no that was for Matt, it would have been something more Davidy) and generally helps him. But we, the audience, can see hes in a truly bad way. Dying maybe. Eventually he heads back to his TARDIS, and flies off.
But when he returns many years later for Amy he seems perfectly fine, and indeed doesnt remember any of those events And of course over time, we realise what we saw was the Tenth Doctor at the end of his life, about to regenerate. Events that we return to in Episode 13
acheron_xl
Member
I've been saying that you don't take an entire series to 'thaw out' a new Doctor just to shuffle him offstage after 3 years. I hope he at least ties Pertwee's 5.
APZonerunner
Member
I feel like I'll be very surprised if he remains the Doctor for long after his 60th, so I reckon 3 or 4 years. 3 years is the standard, after all... a fan like Capaldi surely knows about 'The Troughton Rule' that even Smith cited as a good reason to leave over.
I feel like I'll be very surprised if he remains the Doctor for long after his 60th, so I reckon 3 or 4 years. 3 years is the standard, after all... a fan like Capaldi surely knows about 'The Troughton Rule' that even Smith cited as a good reason to leave over.
The Troughton Rule is a solid rule. And as much as I personally love the 12th, I don't think he's ever going to be as beloved as the 4th or even the 10th. 3-4 and out is just about right before the show starts to stagnate and/or the audience begins to get really restless. That said just thinking about the 12th dying and preparing for the inevitable first regeneration of this cycle makes me deeply, deeply distressed.
In-universe things I've been thinking about lately:
*So, we know that all Time Lords are Gallifreyan and that not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords, but do we know if regeneration is something inherent to Gallifreyan physiology due to prolonged exposure to Artron particles or do y'all think it might be a physiological change made to Time Lords specifically when they are exposed to the Untempered Schism? Based on River Song's existence, I'm thinking the former, but it would be interesting to discover that "normal" Gallifreyans don't actually regenerate. I mean, we didn't actually see any of the people being killed during the Time War regenerating...It's the sort of thing I could see the stodgy elite of Gallifrey ferretting away for them and theirs alone. Just locking away those extra years like a miser.
*On that front, what is the deal with Rassilon? Wasn't he super-dead prior to his appearance in The End of Time? Did his presence and the Lord President again ever get explained in expanded universe stuff?
*I can't help but wonder if the reason primitive peoples draw gods and angels with sun discs around their heads is actually because of the Time Lords' stupid hats. They do kind of look like sun discs...
APZonerunner
Member
*So, we know that all Time Lords are Gallifreyan and that not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords, but do we know if regeneration is something inherent to Gallifreyan physiology due to prolonged exposure to Artron particles or do y'all think it might be a physiological change made to Time Lords specifically when they are exposed to the Untempered Schism? Based on River Song's existence, I'm thinking the former, but it would be interesting to discover that "normal" Gallifreyans don't actually regenerate. I mean, we didn't actually see any of the people being killed during the Time War regenerating...It's the sort of thing I could see the stodgy elite of Gallifrey ferretting away for them and theirs alone. Just locking away those extra years like a miser.
There's Jenny, too. She took longer to pop and didn't show normal signs, but that weird experiment came out with regenerative abilities (of some description) intact...
*On that front, what is the deal with Rassilon? Wasn't he super-dead prior to his appearance in The End of Time? Did his presence and the Lord President again ever get explained in expanded universe stuff?
I don't remember if any other extended universe stuff deals with it, but RTD said at the time somewhere (commentary, interview, somewhere) that they revived him with a new regeneration as they did with The Master, and he displaced Romana as Lord President. We already know they were so desperate they were reviving people who they thought would be good warriors via The Master, so for them to revive their greatest ever (if slightly maniacal/insane) leader makes sense.
This reminds me of one way I imagined the Time War/Regeneration Limit could've been handled -- would preferred this to Day of the Doctor, but then again it is my idea, so I'm biased, but... What if the Doctor died? What if the Eighth Doctor died (which, in fairness, actually happened during Night of the Doctor) while fighting the war. Like with The Master, the Time Lords returned him to life as the Ninth, who then, fresh off regeneration, not thinking straight & enraged at his own death or whatever, stole/built and then pulled the trigger on the super weapon to end the war completely. Obviously, with the revival, the regeneration limit would've been reset, as the Master said previously.
There's Jenny, too. She took longer to pop and didn't show normal signs, but that weird experiment came out with regenerative abilities (of some description) intact....
If I remember correctly, in the script it says that she is returned to life via the same forces that are returning the planet's surface to life, which is why she doesn't do the full face-changing Timelord regen. Whether Jenny had Regeneration abilities or not is kind of questionable therefore. River Song absolutely did and as far as I know, she was never exposed directly to the Untempered Schism prior to her first regen, but River Song is (in more ways than one) a confusing and impossible anomaly just in general, so I don't find her to be definitive proof one way or the other.
I don't remember if any other extended universe stuff deals with it, but RTD said at the time somewhere (commentary, interview, somewhere) that they revived him with a new regeneration as they did with The Master, and he displaced Romana as Lord President. We already know they were so desperate they were reviving people who they thought would be good warriors via The Master, so for them to revive their greatest ever (if slightly maniacal/insane) leader makes sense.
Yep, that checks out for me. Seeing the Whoniverse from the point of view of the Doctor, I see utilizing Rassilon as being on the level of suicidal alongside inviting Omega back to Gallifrey, but I get the sense that the average Time Lord (if such a thing can be said to exist) doesn't perceive Rassilon with quite the trepidation that the Doctor does for...reasons. Good ones.
This reminds me of one way I imagined the Time War/Regeneration Limit could've been handled -- would preferred this to Day of the Doctor, but then again it is my idea, so I'm biased, but... What if the Doctor died? What if the Eighth Doctor died (which, in fairness, actually happened during Night of the Doctor) while fighting the war. Like with The Master, the Time Lords returned him to life as the Ninth, who then, fresh off regeneration, not thinking straight & enraged at his own death or whatever, stole/built and then pulled the trigger on the super weapon to end the war completely. Obviously, with the revival, the regeneration limit would've been reset, as the Master said previously.
I...actually really like that. I didn't mind Time of the Doctor's solution, but it did seem a bit...convenient. Forgiven for me at the time basically because it was Christmas and that was one whopper of a Christmas present, I'd say.
Reminds me of another theory that I have: the reason why there is an imposed limit on Time Lord regenerations. This could easily be squashed by several things, but it amuses me so go with me on this: What if, the reason why there's a limit is because the longer lived a Time Lord is, the more Artron energy is released during the regeneration?Or Regeneration Energy if you prefer, but both are shown to look like the same golden particles, leading me to wonder if "regeneration energy" and Artron are one and the same.
Think about this: First dies, he just fades into Second and that's more or less true up through to Seventh, maybe getting slightly more showy as they go. When the Seventh becomes the Eighth, he's become a complicated enough space-time event that he produces a localized electrical storm in the morgue where they're keeping the Doctor's body. When Eighth regenerates, he's become complicated enough that visible Artron emissions can be seen leaving his body as he changes. The ninth spat them out like a roman candle. The tenth critically damaged the TARDIS by regenerating within the control room. The Eleventh went off like a bomb.
Should this trend continue, the Doctor will have to tip himself out into space for his regeneration, lest he run the risk of cracking the surface of whatever world he's on or accidentally blowing up the TARDIS...again.
The Master has had whole new bodies. She's presumably tooling around in effectively a clone body at this point. One that was resurrected with black magic (or something?) at that. This could explain why she's not yet become such a complicated event as to be able to blow up a major city just by regenerating within it. Woe be to this universe should she ever achieve such a thing.
APZonerunner
Member
If I remember correctly, in the script it says that she is returned to life via the same forces that are returning the planet's surface to life, which is why she doesn't do the full face-changing Timelord regen. Whether Jenny had Regeneration abilities or not is kind of questionable therefore. River Song absolutely did and as far as I know, she was never exposed directly to the Untempered Schism prior to her first regen, but River Song is (in more ways than one) a confusing and impossible anomaly just in general, so I don't find her to be definitive proof one way or the other.
The script never really says. Martha says "there's no sign of regeneration," and presumably she'd know about it either through the Doctor telling her or through UNIT - but then when she is returned to life, she exhales an energy that looks very, very similar to the energy also exhaled by the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors immediately after regenerating - it's just a lighter colour, which admittedly also makes it look potentially a bit more like The Source from that episode. So it really could be either.
I like to think she can probably regenerate normally, though. We already have it established that a Time Lord can heal themselves if they're within 12 hours or so of their regeneration, and she was within that of being 'born', which could count for the same. As far as the energy being slightly lighter, in the 2005-10 era the view was always that regenerations would look slightly different depending on the character. IE a Romana regeneration would be the same effect, but the colour and the nature of the energy might be different. The Master's was shown to be more controlled/elegant than both of the Doctor's in that time, for instance, and rather than the golden hue his had this crazy rainbow effect going on which presumably represents his insanity. Not sure if this detail has been merely forgotten or actively discarded under Moffat, since River's effect was identical to the Doctor's (could be a statement that she's so very like him it's the same, though), but that was definitely the case under RTD and so explains the energy being a bit different in colour.
funkystudent
Member
So it only occurred to me yesterday that the whole 'promised land' thing throughout this last season was never really explicitly explained and in fact doesn't really make sense in the context of the finale.
Yeah that popped into my head a few days after.
So all the dead peoples consciousness got stored in some Time Lord hard drive and the place Danny was in the final not actually a physical place.
But Missy was seen there a bunch of times. So clearly people who are still alive can travel to and from there? Unless Missy is actually dead already or something.
Yeah that popped into my head a few days after.
So all the dead peoples consciousness got stored in some Time Lord hard drive and the place Danny was in the final not actually a physical place.
But Missy was seen there a bunch of times. So clearly people who are still alive can travel to and from there? Unless Missy is actually dead already or something.
Pretty sure that was just the nethersphere.
paradox121
Member
But Missy was seen there a bunch of times. So clearly people who are still alive can travel to and from there? Unless Missy is actually dead already or something.
It's a Time Lord Matrix. People can travel in and out of it just by 'jacking in' as it were.
As for the Promised Land its just another name for the Nethersphere. It seemed to be only robots that were heading for it, so I assume Missy had set up that aspect as some kind of idyllic land for robots only, seeing as they dont technically have an afterlife. Or a concept of death I guess.
So it only occurred to me yesterday that the whole 'promised land' thing throughout this last season was never really explicitly explained and in fact doesn't really make sense in the context of the finale.
What I understood is that it's part of the myth to attract those super rich which facilitates the, well R&D, basically, of making Cybermen able to recruit the dead.
So, the SS Marie Antoinette ship was programmed to find it, and that's why that droid was intent on getting there, maybe he gained that desire by harvesting the bodies of the human passengers, something like that... Of course, there is less to go out on concerning the Robots of Sherwood, so who knows
Reflecting on it, yes, ultimately the overall season plot was disappointing. Though, I still find the individual stories strong enough to still consider it my favorite.
The script never really says. Martha says "there's no sign of regeneration," and presumably she'd know about it either through the Doctor telling her or through UNIT - but then when she is returned to life, she exhales an energy that looks very, very similar to the energy also exhaled by the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors immediately after regenerating - it's just a lighter colour, which admittedly also makes it look potentially a bit more like The Source from that episode. So it really could be either.
I can't find an exact quote anywhere, but several wiki's and things say that Moffat has stated that she was revived by the source. Could be retconned later if they want to use the character again, but it was the intent. It was apparently also the stated reason in the Time Traveler's Almanac...though I have no idea the veracity of that text. I don't own it myself.
I like to think she can probably regenerate normally, though. We already have it established that a Time Lord can heal themselves if they're within 12 hours or so of their regeneration, and she was within that of being 'born', which could count for the same. As far as the energy being slightly lighter, under RTD his view was always that regenerations would look slightly different depending on the character. IE a Romana regeneration would be the same effect, but the colour and the nature of the energy might be different. The Master's was shown to be more controlled/elegant than both of the Doctor's under RTD, for instance, and rather than the golden hue his had this crazy rainbow effect going on which presumably represents his insanity. Not sure if this detail has been merely forgotten or actively discarded under Moffat, since River's effect was identical to the Doctor's (could be a statement that she's so very like him it's the same, though), but that was definitely the case under RTD and so explains the energy being a bit different in colour.
I'm ok with the idea of there being slight variation as some expression of the life they've lived (each Time Lord's timestream expressed in their regenerative emissions maybe) but I am totally fine with regenerations being made to look uniform too. Both seem like they could easily be justified to me. The Master's regeneration being different looking could easily be explained away as a quirk of all the crazy shit he's done to himself to keep himself alive after burning through so many extra lives.
Hm. After booting up the good ol' TARDIS data core, it looks like my two theories about regeneration hover around the most recently provided possible explanation. Regeneration is something that happens because of proximity to the Untempered Schism, but was apparently described as something resultant from effectively background radiation coming off it. Like a really beneficial version of developing cancer due to living near a nuclear test site? This comes from the Doctor's theorizing about how River's "time head" could have come into existence during A Good Man Goes to War.
Interestingly, the Time Traveler's Companion for the Doctor Who RPG sites the Rassilon Imprimatur as being the source of a Time Lord's regenerative abilities as well as their ability to bond with a TARDIS. This actually seems much more likely to me, that it came about because of intentional genetic tampering rather than being a "natural" manifestation of prolonged exposure to raw space-time. Regeneration seems far to beneficial to be an accident. Then again, maybe blind creatures would say the same of sight.
Interestingly, the Time Traveler's Companion for the Doctor Who RPG sites the Rassilon Imprimatur as being the source of a Time Lord's regenerative abilities as well as their ability to bond with a TARDIS. This actually seems much more likely to me, that it came about because of intentional genetic tampering rather than being a "natural" manifestation of prolonged exposure to raw space-time. Regeneration seems far to beneficial to be an accident. Then again, maybe blind creatures would say the same of sight.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I am taking my girlfriend through the series and we just got done with the end of Donna, and man. I liked Capaldi's season and love him as the Doctor, but there is such a huge build up in this episode, and all of the companions show up, Rose, Mickey, Jack, etc, that it's hard to top. Capaldi's finale just didn't have the build up and punch that this had.
The Doctor regenerating from his hand, Donna becoming half Time Lord, everyone falling into their roles, and Donna getting erased. So good.
It almost seems like once Tennant was done the series split, and post Tennant is in one universe, and Tennant's run is in another. Will we ever see Rose or Martha or anyone show up again? Or will it just be callbacks to Amy and Rory?
The Doctor regenerating from his hand, Donna becoming half Time Lord, everyone falling into their roles, and Donna getting erased. So good.
It almost seems like once Tennant was done the series split, and post Tennant is in one universe, and Tennant's run is in another. Will we ever see Rose or Martha or anyone show up again? Or will it just be callbacks to Amy and Rory?
APZonerunner
Member
I am taking my girlfriend through the series and we just got done with the end of Donna, and man. I liked Capaldi's season and love him as the Doctor, but there is such a huge build up in this episode, and all of the companions show up, Rose, Mickey, Jack, etc, that it's hard to top. Capaldi's finale just didn't have the build up and punch that this had.
The Doctor regenerating from his hand, Donna becoming half Time Lord, everyone falling into their roles, and Donna getting erased. So good.
It almost seems like once Tennant was done the series split, and post Tennant is in one universe, and Tennant's run is in another. Will we ever see Rose or Martha or anyone show up again? Or will it just be callbacks to Amy and Rory?
Well, we see them all in Let's Kill Hitler, even Martha, to be fair. And we had 'Bad Wolf' Rose in Day of the Doctor. But... probably not really, no.
They were RTD's characters, it was RTD's universe. Donna and Rose's stories are done, really (until Big Finish gets a new Who license), but Martha, Mickey and Jack could all have more done with them one day if people decide they want to, especially since they're fighting aliens and all that. We live in a world where Sarah Jane returned 30 odd years later and the Brigadier and Jo also returned to the Who universe (admittedly in SJA), so it's not outside the realm of possibility, really.
Jack was actually meant to be in 'Good Man' as part of the gang as said above, but Barrowman wasn't available at that time so it fell through. I think Jack and Capaldi's Doctor would be a great pairing, so hopefully he comes back one day. He stands a strong chance in particular, I think, as he has a large fanbase from Torchwood who'd love to see him. I'd like to see Martha and/or Mickey one day, though. That'd be nice. They're out there, doing alien-related stuff, somewhere.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Interesting, thanks guys.
I want more of the RTD era stuff, I like Moffat and co, and they bring a newer feel to the show, but man, the callbacks and the coordination between episodes in the Tennant seasons is crazy, even with the occasional bad episode just seeing everything come together over the last 3-4 episodes was great.
I want more of the RTD era stuff, I like Moffat and co, and they bring a newer feel to the show, but man, the callbacks and the coordination between episodes in the Tennant seasons is crazy, even with the occasional bad episode just seeing everything come together over the last 3-4 episodes was great.
I am taking my girlfriend through the series and we just got done with the end of Donna, and man. I liked Capaldi's season and love him as the Doctor, but there is such a huge build up in this episode, and all of the companions show up, Rose, Mickey, Jack, etc, that it's hard to top. Capaldi's finale just didn't have the build up and punch that this had.
That's not really a fair comparison though, Capaldi's finale was the culmination of just one year while Journey's End was tying up characters from three. That huge build-up is supposed to be sending off RTD's whole run. Moffat on the other hand isn't finished yet.
APZonerunner
Member
I would like to see Davies write an episode, I hope Moffat can convince him to come back. Just call him up again and see if he's in the mood these days.
I think the fanboy in him will want to write for every Doctor from 9 for as long as he can. He wrote for 11 in SJA, but with Liz gone his only option if he wants to write for 12 now is to come back and do an episode. Hope he will.
I like that there are little connections to the RTD Universe - having the Moffat-era UNIT staff mention both Malcolm (the crazy lead UNIT scientist from Planet of the Dead) and the Valiant (the gigantic SHIELD helicarrier style ship The Master helped them to build in S3) in recent appearances made me smile. That's enough for me.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I think I'd love it if Captain Jack came back, and contrary to the expectations of 12 vaguely disapproving and them quibbling with each other, they hit it off immediately and begin going off on everybody else around them instead.
In other news, I've begun an official trek through Eighth Doctor Adventures and I'm pretty much loving them. I just listened to "The Horror of Glam Rock" and was wondering why the old manager dude sounded so familiar, only to hear in the credits that is was the same actor that played Donna's dad. Wouldn't mind seeing him return.
In other news, I've begun an official trek through Eighth Doctor Adventures and I'm pretty much loving them. I just listened to "The Horror of Glam Rock" and was wondering why the old manager dude sounded so familiar, only to hear in the credits that is was the same actor that played Donna's dad. Wouldn't mind seeing him return.
Do you want to see a video from 1979 where people dance to a disco version of the theme tune at Cardiff Wales Airport? Of course you do.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I feel like Moffatt is trying so hard to get that Journey's End "gang back together" feel every single time the Paternoster crew comes back. And it tanks because they're such unbearable characters in comparison.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
People complain about them coming back too much, but have they really had that many appearances?
peanutbutterlatte
Member
People complain about them coming back too much, but have they really had that many appearances?
Ehh...
A Good Man Goes to War
The Snowman
Crimson Horror
Name of the Doctor
Deep Breath
More than enough for me.
I think I'd love it if Captain Jack came back, and contrary to the expectations of 12 vaguely disapproving and them quibbling with each other, they hit it off immediately and begin going off on everybody else around them instead.
In other news, I've begun an official trek through Eighth Doctor Adventures and I'm pretty much loving them. I just listened to "The Horror of Glam Rock" and was wondering why the old manager dude sounded so familiar, only to hear in the credits that is was the same actor that played Donna's dad. Wouldn't mind seeing him return.
But Captain Jack would try to hug 12! No hugging!
Also, good for you on the Eighth Doctor Adventures. Some of my favorite Doctor Who stories in any medium come out of that line. Paul McGann is an awesome dude and has the perfect voice to be the "face" of Big Finish Doctor Who. Definitely one of my favorite doctors of all time.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ehh...
A Good Man Goes to War
The Snowman
Crimson Horror
Name of the Doctor
Deep Breath
More than enough for me.
Right and the problem is that three of those are in one series.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I feel like Moffatt is trying so hard to get that Journey's End "gang back together" feel every single time the Paternoster crew comes back. And it tanks because they're such unbearable characters in comparison.
Kill Strax and Vastra.
Jenny is the companion.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Kill Strax and Vastra.
Jenny is the companion.
None of them are really. The potential for a Soontaran companion is so good and they just turn Strax into slapstick. I feel like any comment on Jenny and Vastra will be interpreted as homophobia, but man do they like reminding people that they are together and it's absolutely fine. I know it's fine. I'm aware.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
None of them are really. The potential for a Soontaran companion is so good and they just turn Strax into slapstick. I feel like any comment on Jenny and Vastra will be interpreted as homophobia, but man do they like reminding people that they are together and it's absolutely fine. I know it's fine. I'm aware.
That moment in The Snowmen where they do the whole "flippant marriage comment freaks out fuddy duddy british man" gag soured me on them I think
Bobby Roberts
Banned
None of them are really.
Huh? Jenny would make a fine companion. Sort of a weird combination of Leela and Clara, really.
The shit you're complaining about regarding her making out with the lizard lady wouldn't be a thing if you killed the lizard lady and the potatohead. Plus that sort of weight could be used to more clearly define Jenny's character.
Exterminieren
Banned
The potential for a Soontaran companion is so good
No it isn't. Sontarans have always been stock, 2D characters. Strax is outstanding in his field by not being indescribably boring.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Huh? Jenny would make a fine companion. Sort of a weird combination of Leela and Clara, really.
The shit you're complaining about regarding her making out with the lizard lady wouldn't be a thing if you killed the lizard lady and the potatohead. Plus that sort of weight could be used to more clearly define Jenny's character.
Yeah she should be ok. Shame is, she gets overshadowed in most scenes she's in by condescending know it all lizard lady and jokey potatohead.
And I don't think Moffat would kill any of them off. My headcanon dictates he still wants a spinoff baaad.
Closest we will get to RTD era characters are off hand one liners and the 50th special. Jack was supposed to be in A Good Man Goes to War but couldn't due to schedule conflicts with Torchwood.
We could've had the headless monks take off his head and then the Doctor could've placed it in a jar thus solving that mystery once and for all.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And I don't think Moffat would kill any of them off. My headcanon dictates he still wants a spinoff baaad.
I used to think the same thing, but I dunno, I think the window has closed on that.
That's another difference between Russell and Steven. I think were Russell still in charge, we'd absolutely have gotten a Paternoster spinoff - and he'd likely have tried the off-season Eighth Doctor webseries that was being discussed shortly after the 50th.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
We could've had the headless monks take off his head and then the Doctor could've placed it in a jar thus solving that mystery once and for all.
AAAAAAH that's actually quite not awful... better than "The Silence hijacked my TARDIS."
Okay... so... how
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