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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Nardole has human lungs, hence why he collapsed. They could have used a line for the Doctor's imperviousness but I gather it's because he's a Time Lord?

The Secretary General was a coward.

Monk's power hasn't been explained, but they're clearly OP as fuck.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Hot Coldman said:
Nardole has human lungs, hence why he collapsed. They could have used a line for the Doctor's imperviousness but I gather it's because he's a Time Lord?

The Secretary General was a coward.

Monk's power hasn't been explained, but they're clearly OP as fuck.
Click to expand...

Ok so now the Tardis is carrying the bacteria and will wipe out the earth next time the door is opened. And the bacteria destroyed all life, not just humans so you'd think it'd still affect the doctor?

I'm all for suspension of disbelief but I still need a couple of things I can hold onto.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Hot Coldman said:
This wasn't UNIT guys, it was just the normal UN. Otherwise we'd have Kate and co.

And the Cybermen don't have the power to rewrite history, I don't think the monks are them. They said they chose the form of corpses, anyway.
Click to expand...

They aren't rewriting anything though? They've just used their simulations to predict the right moment to surface and 'save' humanity.
 
M

Mr-Joker

Banned
Yeah this week episode was a little weak, more so after how clever last week episode was. Hopefully next week episode will be better.
 
M

mclem

Member
mrklaw said:
They aren't rewriting anything though? They've just used their simulations to predict the right moment to surface and 'save' humanity.
Click to expand...
He's referring to how they fixed the Doctor's eyes.


Given what we know about the next series, I wonder if this episode's going to act as a mirror to something later on.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
this episode contained one of my least favorite things in all of fiction - situations that only exist because people feel like lying for stupid goddamn reasons

the world is literally about to end, maybe tell somebody you don't have eyes you ass
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Htown said:
this episode contained one of my least favorite things in all of fiction - situations that only exist because people feel like lying for stupid goddamn reasons

the world is literally about to end, maybe tell somebody you don't have eyes you ass
Click to expand...

Well who could have predicted a high tech bio lab using giant suitcase combination locks on their doors?
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
mrklaw said:
Well who could have predicted a high tech bio lab using giant suitcase combination locks on their doors?
Click to expand...

you know what you CAN predict high tech labs ARE full of?

fucking screens which he can't read

so he'd need eyes anyway

basically everything about the way the Doctor handled this was sloppy as hell
 
M

Mr. Bad Example

Neo Member
There was a lot not to like in this episode--I still cringe at the President of Earth thing, for example--and I can't wait for Stephen Moffat to go back to writing only grocery lists, but the one thing that absolutely staggered me was Douglas. Here we have a man who:
  • Despite being hung over nigh unto death, continues to work with potential biohazard materials.
  • Goes through the airlock without his hazmat suit helmet.
  • Scoops up a sample of the bacteria that he's just seen reduce a bunch of plants to organic goo into an unsealed container with his hands. (Gloved, but still.)
  • On the way back out of the lab, leaves both airlock doors open, because that's a thing you can apparently do with the discount LUFTSLUSS range from Ikea.

It mystifies me how Douglas hadn't been not just fired, not just mega-fired, but Super Double Turbo Extreme Deluxe Fired II: The Sackening (Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry Series) before then.
 
D

Doctor_Thomas

Member
One of the reasons Doctor Who works so much better in futuristic settings and space stations is because you can basically fire up a load of cables and wires, have really dim lights and use practical effects that are both cheap and look good for TV.... during the day, that doesn't really work and when a TV show relies on CGI, especially when it's done on the cheap like Doctor Who tends to be, then it kind of falls short.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
This was the weakest episode of the season. Not awful, but it was almost entirely trying to check boxes with convenient hangups to keep the setup going. Some things were too easy to solve (figuring out it was a lab and where it was) while a lot of the problems felt too contrived (like that combination lock). The acting wasn't anything to write home about either, and even though I was kind of on board with the blind Doctor it did end up feeling unnecessary as ultimately the only moment where it was seriously relevant was that airlock situation.

There were some cool ideas to be found here, but the execution fell flat, which is unfortunate since I really enjoyed last week's. Hopefully the next one will be more entertaining, the preview shows promise.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Yeah I wouldn't say any of the differing levels of believability I have with this episode mean I think it's a classic. It be wonky. Very wonky.

Harness should probably stop writing Who.
 
P

paradox121

Member
I thought the episode was fine, but definitely constrained by being a middle-parter. Knowing that the Doctor was going to lose and someone was going to make a terrible decision kinda drags down an episode, particularly one which is otherwise comprised of people standing around talking about what to do.

I think there's a better episode without the Monks where you just have all the nations on the brink of war, and there's probably also an episode about negotiating with aliens who offer to fix the world's problems with dubious costs. But knowing the Monks are bad guys (And, I mean, look at them. They look like corpses. Don't trust corpses), and knowing that Harness typically writes the military and world leaders as gung-ho idiots basically killed all tension.

I will say that final scene was fantastic though. Yes, the Doctor should have told Bill earlier and yes, a combination lock is a questionable thing to have in a biochemical facility, but I love the simplicity of the problem. The Doctor loses because he was too proud to be seen as weak. Its essentially the Face the Raven problem all over again - thinking you can handle a situation even though you're clearly not fully equipped. I love how it played out and pretty much made me shrug off the more glaring idiocies in the episode.
 
P

Platy

Member
a Three Parter ?

c1nCZBs.png


...or not a three parter ?

I liked more when Doctor Who episodes were like "The Ark in Space PART ONE" so that way you knew that the episode would not have actually ended =P
 
B

Boem

Member
Platy said:
a Three Parter ?

c1nCZBs.png


...or not a three parter ?

I liked more when Doctor Who episodes were like "The Ark in Space PART ONE" so that way you knew that the episode would not have actually ended =P
Click to expand...

That's just the wiki right? I believe this was announced as a three parter even back before they announced the episode titles.
 
G

GodParticle

Member
Symphonia said:
It's been noted before that the Doctor is the President of Earth. In 'Dark Water' and 'Death In Heaven' had him flying around in Air Force One. It a stupid concept, I agree, but it's not a new one.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know about him being president back before. Just tired of the whole doctor is the center of the universe idea. I guess it could be a throwback to him being president of gallifrey in the OG series, but still
 
B

Boem

Member
GodParticle said:
Oh, I know about him being president back before. Just tired of the whole doctor is the center of the universe idea. I guess it could be a throwback to him being president of gallifrey in the OG series, but still
Click to expand...

Yeah this has always been a bit of a problem in the modern series compared to the classic one really. In the original series, he's really just a wanderer through time and space. It's basically where Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy came from. In the modern series they try to have it both ways - just a flippant guy who just wants to have a bit of fun, but also the last of the Timelords, the worst enemy of every monster, the centre of every big event in history, etc. I sort of get why they do it, and it makes sense in a way - most modern tv includes a bit of metatextual overlap between the pure plot and the character's personal journey, and he was involved with a lot of shit over the years (and sometimes good stuff comes out of treating him like this larger than life presence), but it also removes a lot of tension. And there's a lot of repetition in that idea.

I prefer the idea from the (especially early) classic show, where he's just a guy who happens to stumble into these great adventures. It's not all about him, he's just a guy who's there. A tourist, who at the end rides off into the sunset like Lucky Luke without anyone ever knowing who he was or that he was anyone really important at all.

When the show disappears from tv for bit and it comes back after 5 or 10 years, I kinda hope they move back to that part of it some more. The feeling you should get from the Doctor's travels isn't supposed to be a Lord of the Rings-type epic quest. It's a drunken roadtrip you make in your late teens/early twenties with a bunch of friends, full of wine, girls, weird adventures and dumb mistakes. If you know what I mean. And not that epic tales can't happen ('epic' as in LotR, not gaming-epic), it's more that that shouldn't happen so often.

Although I admit, I kinda like the President of the World bit. It's a fun little joke. But I get why you wouldn't agree with it.
 
M

mclem

Member
Platy said:
a Three Parter ?

c1nCZBs.png


...or not a three parter ?

I liked more when Doctor Who episodes were like "The Ark in Space PART ONE" so that way you knew that the episode would not have actually ended =P
Click to expand...

I seem to remember hearing it described as "Not exactly a three-parter, but three related stories". Which makes sense; each story stands alone in itself but ends in a segue to the next. I wonder if that's a conscious experiment to avoid the slight issue where two-parters tend to lose audience (presumably due to people not wanting to tune in because 'they didn't see the first part'?)
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
mrklaw said:
Such a bad episode. They needed to get from point A to point B but this was just shit.
Click to expand...

Yup to all of that. What a disappointment after the last two.

And also, he had two easy ways of reading the combo lock:
1) Bill just needed to find the monks' camera feed and read the combo lock from the CCTV
2) use videochat with Bill's phone to see the lock

This whole episode was full of awful writing on both plot and characters. The Doctor putting Bill in danger by bringing her into the pyramid for no real reason (including the UN Sec. General picking her up for no reason)? Bill dooming the world just to maybe save the Doctor? Horrible. And the wooden acting and terrible dialogue from the generals. This is the kind of DW episode that makes me wonder why I watch this show.
 
G

Goldrush

Member
Thought the show was heading into a 12 Monkey scenario where it's the Doctor's intervention that released the bacteria in the first place. It still could, but a deal was made and releasing the bacteria would break the promise. So, I'm guessing the plot reason to save the bacteria is to use it as a final weapon against the monk causing them to turn themselves into Cybermen.

Boem said:
Yeah this has always been a bit of a problem in the modern series compared to the classic one really. In the original series, he's really just a wanderer through time and space. It's basically where Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy came from. In the modern series they try to have it both ways - just a flippant guy who just wants to have a bit of fun, but also the last of the Timelords, the worst enemy of every monster, the centre of every big event in history, etc. I sort of get why they do it, and it makes sense in a way - most modern tv includes a bit of metatextual overlap between the pure plot and the character's personal journey, and he was involved with a lot of shit over the years (and sometimes good stuff comes out of treating him like this larger than life presence), but it also removes a lot of tension. And there's a lot of repetition in that idea.

I prefer the idea from the (especially early) classic show, where he's just a guy who happens to stumble into these great adventures. It's not all about him, he's just a guy who's there. A tourist, who at the end rides off into the sunset like Lucky Luke without anyone ever knowing who he was or that he was anyone really important at all.

When the show disappears from tv for bit and it comes back after 5 or 10 years, I kinda hope they move back to that part of it some more. The feeling you should get from the Doctor's travels isn't supposed to be a Lord of the Rings-type epic quest. It's a drunken roadtrip you make in your late teens/early twenties with a bunch of friends, full of wine, girls, weird adventures and dumb mistakes. If you know what I mean. And not that epic tales can't happen ('epic' as in LotR, not gaming-epic), it's more that that shouldn't happen so often.

Although I admit, I kinda like the President of the World bit. It's a fun little joke. But I get why you wouldn't agree with it.
Click to expand...

Never watched old Doctor Who past the first series, but I do agree with this. I was intrigued at the end of the Wedding of River Song where the Doctor hinted at a more subdued direction, but nothing really came out of it.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Boem said:
Yeah this has always been a bit of a problem in the modern series compared to the classic one really. In the original series, he's really just a wanderer through time and space. It's basically where Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy came from. In the modern series they try to have it both ways - just a flippant guy who just wants to have a bit of fun, but also the last of the Timelords, the worst enemy of every monster, the centre of every big event in history, etc. I sort of get why they do it, and it makes sense in a way - most modern tv includes a bit of metatextual overlap between the pure plot and the character's personal journey, and he was involved with a lot of shit over the years (and sometimes good stuff comes out of treating him like this larger than life presence), but it also removes a lot of tension. And there's a lot of repetition in that idea.

I prefer the idea from the (especially early) classic show, where he's just a guy who happens to stumble into these great adventures. It's not all about him, he's just a guy who's there. A tourist, who at the end rides off into the sunset like Lucky Luke without anyone ever knowing who he was or that he was anyone really important at all.

When the show disappears from tv for bit and it comes back after 5 or 10 years, I kinda hope they move back to that part of it some more. The feeling you should get from the Doctor's travels isn't supposed to be a Lord of the Rings-type epic quest. It's a drunken roadtrip you make in your late teens/early twenties with a bunch of friends, full of wine, girls, weird adventures and dumb mistakes. If you know what I mean. And not that epic tales can't happen ('epic' as in LotR, not gaming-epic), it's more that that shouldn't happen so often.

Although I admit, I kinda like the President of the World bit. It's a fun little joke. But I get why you wouldn't agree with it.
Click to expand...

It's like the difference in storytelling between Dan Brown/David Baldacci and Lee Child/Dick Francis.

With Brown/Baldacci every single problem is wildly implausible world-shattering cataclysmic threats, while with Child/Francis every problem is little, and localised, in a recognisable place affecting real people.

I really prefer the Doctor to be a Jack Reacher rather than a Robert Langdon.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
First poor episode of this season, which is a shame.
 
Kanhir

Kanhir

Member
Htown said:
you know what you CAN predict high tech labs ARE full of?

fucking screens which he can't read

so he'd need eyes anyway

basically everything about the way the Doctor handled this was sloppy as hell
Click to expand...

Exactly. He has science sunglasses that can capture feed for 24 hours and somehow send this 24-hour feed from digital simulations to the real world...yet he can't take a quick photo, send it to Bill and say "How many times do I need to turn the dials?"
 
B

Bluth54

Member
Kanhir said:
Exactly. He has science sunglasses that can capture feed for 24 hours and somehow send this 24-hour feed from digital simulations to the real world...yet he can't take a quick photo, send it to Bill and say "How many times do I need to turn the dials?"
Click to expand...

Does the Doctor even carry a mobile phone though? I can't recall him ever carrying one he's always used someone else's phone.

The sunglasses don't seem like they can take normal images either. The sunglasses in the last episode weren't real.
 
A

Axiom

Member
I don't think anything this season so has been exceptional (though I loved The Pilot) - but it's all been pretty good and Bill is such a breath of fresh air. To me it feels like Moffat took a look at RTD's first series and had a crack at doing that in his own way.

So while we're not opening with The Doctor playing guitar on a tank, Davros being Davros and Missy pushing Clara down a hole. We're also not back in the bad half of the Smith run or hanging out with Robin Hood and kids in the forest.

I think the show right now is remarkably consistent - so if it's not been hitting with you then that consistency would a terrible thing.
Myself. I don't think much has changed from series 9 except for the general tone.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
I think Capaldi's tenure has been the right mix of the Doctor living as a wanderer, but finding himself at the epicentre of major events simply due to being as powerful as he is. The keyword here is consequence - the Twelfth Doctor has seen so much how having access to all of time and space and the knowledge contained within can cause problems. Don't forget that the two major, all-important threats and events he's faced - the Hybrid, and the Vault - are things the Doctor has tried to run from. The Hybrid he literally said "oh fuck this" and ran from, and the Vault is something he couldn't resist moving away from. Both with tragic consequences.

Eleven and Ten too often found themselves at the centre of universe-destroying threats as a matter of course. Twelve has been great for putting the Doctor's desire to simply be at the forefront of what he does.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Platy said:
a Three Parter ?

c1nCZBs.png


...or not a three parter ?

I liked more when Doctor Who episodes were like "The Ark in Space PART ONE" so that way you knew that the episode would not have actually ended =P
Click to expand...

To be fair, Utopia, Sound of Drums and Last of the Time Lords are thought of as 11, 12 & 13 - even though they're functionally a three-parter, the significant change in tone, setting, and scenario means one of the three parts is kept separate. This isn't exactly new either, Turn Left is the same...
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I liked the episode.

FWIW, thus series I started having my kids watch (8 and 12) and they loved loved loved it. So if Who's primary audience is still kids, it was a smashing success.

The Doctor was president of Gallifrey? Was this established before or after HHGTTG was aired? If before, I suddenly realize where Zaphod comes from.
 
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