The Elite
BOSS
I'm sure there is some influence in there somewhere.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time
- Thread starter tomtom94
- Start date
I'm sure there is some influence in there somewhere.
acheron_xl
Member
You know, series 10 isn't over yet, but for my druthers, the Capaldi era is probably the most consistently good 3 season run the entire show has had since seasons 12-14. Just remarkably few misses, and some all-time classics. I'm going to miss him terribly.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I dunno. I think he's been in a ton of terrible episodes (though his acting is never the reason they're bad).
I'd go with 2/3/4 being the best 3 series in a row recently. 2 has quite a few clunkers, but there's a lot in S9 I didn't like.
Actually, 25/26/1/2/3/4/5 is a pretty damn good run to me.
I'd go with 2/3/4 being the best 3 series in a row recently. 2 has quite a few clunkers, but there's a lot in S9 I didn't like.
Actually, 25/26/1/2/3/4/5 is a pretty damn good run to me.
I agree, easily the most consistent.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Yep. Having been an HHGTTG fan since the early 80s but arriving at Who just a few years ago, my default sense of primacy is flipped. But thinking about it, HHGTTG really owes a lot to Who.
Yeah, completely agree. This is going to be a run that will really stand out when people look back on it in a few years. Definitely the best run of the modern series in my eyes.
forgeforsaken
Member
Eh, I dunno, some of my least favorite episodes and plot arcs have been in the Capaldi run. Kill the Moon is a top 5 worst episode for sure, and I really didn't like that Me/Clara arc. Early Clara was also much better than later Clara.
Oh yeah HHGTTG owes everything to Doctor Who. Douglas Adams wanted to write for Doctor Who as he was a giant fan, didn't get that chance at first, so he wrote HHGTTG for radio. And some time later he obviously got the Who gig anyway. But there are a ton of DW references in HHGTTG, particularly to the Hartnell era. The Tardis appearing on a cricket pitch and the commentators dryly taking it in their stride and commenting on it is almost recreated in Hitchhikers entirely for instance. The Babel Fish is Adams trying to explain the Tardis translating before the show ever did (which didn't happen until Eccleston), the impossibillity drive is basically the chameleon circuit, etc. There's a lot there.
There were even parody shows on the air back then that commented on Adams very public wish to write DW and having to create his own version at the time, and Adams himself has been very honest about it. RTD and Moffat have always said that, if Adams hadn't died so tragically young, he would definitely be writing for the new show, and his style was a major influence on the show we have now. His scripts would always be late as he was a chronic procrastinator, but he'd be there.
The Artisan
Member
huh, seeing this thread reminds me. does the music in this clip sound familiar?
https://youtu.be/69J67L4b0xU?t=15m46s
https://youtu.be/69J67L4b0xU?t=15m46s
The Elite
BOSS
I actually didn't get turned on to Doctor Who until around 2002. I had watched episodes when I was a kid but never quite got into it. It wasn't until an ex-girlfriend got me into the series that I became a huge Who fan. The first episode she showed me - City of Death. Oddly enough the same ex-gf gave me my first copy of Hitchhiker's Guide.
He has a fucking time machine. Why doesn't he just go back to the few hours before the pathogen was released/created and stop it?
He's crossed his own time stream before. When the destruction of all life on a planet occurs, I think it'd be okay to do again.
He's crossed his own time stream before. When the destruction of all life on a planet occurs, I think it'd be okay to do again.
You could apply this criticism to pretty much any episode though. It's just one of those things you have to accept really.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
They could have found other ways to write that scene. The ep was riddled with things like this. Just felt like an unfinished script.
Oh I agree that this episode was messy, I was just commenting on the logic of "why doesn't the Doctor just travel back to before things went to shit" in general. The logic of it makes sense, but there wouldn't be a show if the writers allowed him to do that every week.
On another note, I'm listening to Radio Free Skaro (best DW podcast out there!), and they had an interesting theory: in The Tenth Planet Mondas is described as Earth's twin planet. Exactly the same as Earth, except there's Cybermen and it's dying. What if Mondas turns out to be one of the recreated Earths as seen in last week's episode?
I don't think that's where they're going with this, but I thought that was a fun observation. It'd piss off a lot of canon-obsessed fans too without it actually contradicting anything, which is always fun.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
In the back of my head I've always known this, but every now and then something makes it hit home. Like above, when somebody mentioned that the Doctor had been President, it dawned on me that the Heart of Gold is basically the Tardis in practical effect.
Dr Zhivago
Member
You'd rather the Doctor was an ex-military badass than a puzzle-solving intellectual?
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I'm afraid I don't follow on recreated earths. By last week you mean Extermis?
Yeah the computer simulation one. Which is why I don't think why they're going there, since Mondas was an actual planet that was physically there. But it was also a duplicate of earth, and there are definitely a bunch of big hints that the monks are Mondasian Cybermen, which is why I liked the observation. The latest episode of Radio Free Skaro talks about it if you want their take, I'm just writing these quick posts on my phone during my break, sorry if I wasn't clear.
It kind of was, or at least it wasn't as good as it could be. From Doctor Who Magazine:
I had no idea, that explains a lot. Can't really blame him, that must have been insanely hard. I appreciate that he can be honest about it though.
Considering that context it's actually surprising the episode turned out as well as it did. It's not great because you can feel it's not where it should be, but it's not an outright disaster either.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Ahh, I thought you mean recreation of a real earth, thought I'd somehow missed a massive plot point.
I don't think having mondas be a massive holodeck really works, but you can have that theory work in a way - Mondas was destroyed in '86, so it's possible survivors made their way to earth and have hid in secret since then. Thirty years of rebuilding and simulations sounds plausible.
The only thing that doesn't make sense, and leads me to be unsure about the monks being cybermen is the massive power increase they showed by being able to heal the doctor instantly and remotely, something the doctor was unable to do with timelord technology (which makes zero sense itself). That said, moff has totally ignored canon before, so I could be overthinking it. Plus the consent stuff is still a mystery of course.
Oh man.
Oh wow, that explains a lot. Real sad situation, I couldn't have made anything in that state.
Jesus Christ.
In that situation, they literally had NO-ONE they could have called to help ghost write it????
I know schedules are tough and all but no contingency at all for personal loss???
Sir_Crocodile
Member
If it was a normal one I'm sure he could have asked a friend like rtd or chibnall to do it, but it's a core plot episode, so he probably had to check it himself and make sure there was nothing that went against his plan for the finale.
Ooof, poor Moffat.
EvilRedEye
Member
Sad news about Moffat. In that context, the rough edges seem pretty forgivable - at least there was nothing as bad as Time Lord DNA travelling through solid metal via a lightning bolt.
A snippet of Big Finish news I've not really heard talked about - that one-off Eighth Doctor Time War boxset has been bumped up to a series so it seems that's a full-on successor to Doom Coalition now.
A snippet of Big Finish news I've not really heard talked about - that one-off Eighth Doctor Time War boxset has been bumped up to a series so it seems that's a full-on successor to Doom Coalition now.
Exterminieren
Banned
Yeah, it was really sad to read that about Moffat's Mum- I really enjoyed the episode, but there were a few aspects about the ending that might have benefited fro a proper second pass, and Moffat had much, much more important things to do.
If anyone's interested, here's footage of the lines they cut because of the Manchester bombing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V00klBxPt0
I think they were right to just cut it out. If only because there was every chance that families directly or indirectly affected by the bombing were watching this as a bit of escapism to get their minds off things. As much as I love Who, real life, especially with tragedies like this, is always more important than silly scifi stuff.
Apparently the scenes were still included in some overseas broadcasts (I read some stuff about some South American countries - I didn't even know they did more or less simultaneous broadcasts outside of North America). I guess the decision to cut it out was made fairly late and the foreign broadcast versions had already gone through the subtitling process.
I think they were right to just cut it out. If only because there was every chance that families directly or indirectly affected by the bombing were watching this as a bit of escapism to get their minds off things. As much as I love Who, real life, especially with tragedies like this, is always more important than silly scifi stuff.
Apparently the scenes were still included in some overseas broadcasts (I read some stuff about some South American countries - I didn't even know they did more or less simultaneous broadcasts outside of North America). I guess the decision to cut it out was made fairly late and the foreign broadcast versions had already gone through the subtitling process.
APZonerunner
Member
Yeah, it's fine. My one hope is that they restore it on the DVD, which they never did with Robot of Sherwood - I always thought that one was a bit silly though, since in medieval stuff people get their heads lopped off all the time, it's just part of the trope. This is a very specific reference however, so, yeah. Right to cut it.
Series 9 and 10 may be more consistent than past years, but I don't value consistency as much as I do episodes that engage me completely. Heaven Sent and Listen are the actual only two episodes that have done that for me in the Capaldi era. I feel as though the show is less ambitious in general.
For me, the metric for how much I'll miss Capaldi is how sad am I going to be when he regenerates. I was rolling manly tears during 10 and 11's last scenes, and I really do not think I'm going to be nearly as effected by 12.
I liked the 2-parter approach, Series 9 had the best series opening with the two-part Missy/Dalek story and one of the best Doctor Who stories ever, Me was an interesting character, there was a clear arc going on with the Doctor's character about loss, the Zygon episodes while not always good were a fitting continuation of Day of the Doctor, Clara was the best she'd been with Capaldi, 12 playing guitar, Time Lord Victorious returned, the final 3 episodes were great, and Death in Heaven was the best ever. It's not as fun as S5 but it's up there for quality.
I gotta catch up on the last couple episodes of Series 10 but nothing has me very enthused. Not even Bill. It had the worst DW series opening. Only Thin Ice impressed me. Overall it's just not very compelling. The rest could still be great, we'll see.
I haven't been so down on Moffat Who since, well, ever. I've had few complaints about his direction. 8 was also easily much better than 10, I'd say.
Holy shit I cannot imagine. I was a mess when my grandmother died a few months back. Cannot imagine if it was my mom.
APZonerunner
Member
Something I've realised is that despite the fact she had a tenure as long as Amy and Rose, poor old Clara is going to be relegated to the Martha school of companions. She's the middle one that... doesn't really matter, to be honest.
Like, I think in a decade when people are talking about "remember the Doctor and X" it's going to be 11 and Amy and 12 and Bill. She really did hit her stride later on in her run, but it was almost too late in a sense. I'll never understand why Moffat didn't write Amy & Rory out sooner, at the end of S6 (or given where they were parked in S6, left them there to have them return for Smith's finale or something). Clara really suffered that first year because they really had to rush a characterisation and her 'mystery' and, really, rush her relationship to the Doctor in order to make her a suitable 'everyman' companion in time for the 50th and to support a regeneration. She sort of goes backwards, weirdly, once Smith is gone and Capaldi is settled, and that's when she gets good and begins to grow.
Like, I think in a decade when people are talking about "remember the Doctor and X" it's going to be 11 and Amy and 12 and Bill. She really did hit her stride later on in her run, but it was almost too late in a sense. I'll never understand why Moffat didn't write Amy & Rory out sooner, at the end of S6 (or given where they were parked in S6, left them there to have them return for Smith's finale or something). Clara really suffered that first year because they really had to rush a characterisation and her 'mystery' and, really, rush her relationship to the Doctor in order to make her a suitable 'everyman' companion in time for the 50th and to support a regeneration. She sort of goes backwards, weirdly, once Smith is gone and Capaldi is settled, and that's when she gets good and begins to grow.
Yeah Clara had a rough beginning. Either she would have had to enter the show earlier (I agree that Series 7A didn't really add anything for Amy & Rory anymore, that could have been Clara's moment), or Matt Smith should have done a season more after the 50th. That way she could have had some more time to settle in.
But yeah, she's great with Capaldi. I won't go on about it again because I know a lot of people here don't like the character, but I love what Danny did for her character growth. As well as Capaldi, the slower pace and the slightly more adult tone of series 8. That entire season was magic to me. People have often compared it to Sarah Jane, who started at the end of Pertwee (and was already magnetic at that point), but really became the character and best friend to the Doctor we all love with Tom Baker. and I agree with that. When I think back to Clara, I think of Capaldi Clara, not Smith Clara.
I think it's a bit too early too judge if history is going to Martha her - we're only half a season into Bill's first (and, let's be honest, only) season. But it's true, Bill comes in with a lot less baggage.
I love em both, but I just hope they'll keep Bill as just a normal person, and that she doesn't turn out to be Susan or the War Master or the son of God or anything. She can just be Bill. That's what makes her work.
But yeah, she's great with Capaldi. I won't go on about it again because I know a lot of people here don't like the character, but I love what Danny did for her character growth. As well as Capaldi, the slower pace and the slightly more adult tone of series 8. That entire season was magic to me. People have often compared it to Sarah Jane, who started at the end of Pertwee (and was already magnetic at that point), but really became the character and best friend to the Doctor we all love with Tom Baker. and I agree with that. When I think back to Clara, I think of Capaldi Clara, not Smith Clara.
I think it's a bit too early too judge if history is going to Martha her - we're only half a season into Bill's first (and, let's be honest, only) season. But it's true, Bill comes in with a lot less baggage.
I love em both, but I just hope they'll keep Bill as just a normal person, and that she doesn't turn out to be Susan or the War Master or the son of God or anything. She can just be Bill. That's what makes her work.
Eh, I don't think so. This has been the least popular series of his time and he had Clara for two of them. 10 just had Martha for one and he was constantly missing Rose. I'd say Clara is actually his Rose and Bill is his Martha or Donna. I thought it was implied he even loved Clara in Hell Bent. Rose and Clara were also the only new Who companions to go from one Doctor to the next.
Clara was very good in Capaldi's first season. I think people will remember 12 and her with the whole Danny Pink romance, Missy, the Hybrid and the return to Gallifrey etc.. She will be his Rose, while Bill will be his Donna: a companion fondly remembered who is not THE companion.
A problem I had with the Moffat era was that he kept the companions for too long. Amy and Rory should have left at the end of S6, introducing Clara at the very beginning of S7 and writing her off at the end of S8, with Bill for S9 and S10.
Series 9 was all about losing Clara though. It would have been a totally different story if Bill had been the companion and stayed for 10.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Going back any earlier would probably create a paradox, yeah? As long as the clock is ticking down (which affects the monk's presence, the military leaders' behaviours, etc etc) that's history the Doctor is bound to. If that makes sense.
He can't solve the problem before he first encounters it, basically? Otherwise he'd probably rip a hole in the universe. Which is probably worse than whatever the monks can do.
Clara will have three times the episodes and almost certainly a more prominent role and arc than Bill will ever have.
I don't really think Bill is making so much of an impression in a vacuum tbh.
forgeforsaken
Member
That's not exactly in Clara's favor. My big problem with her as a character is how important she became to the universe and the Doctor's origin story, really soured me on her as a character, Bill, at least so far, still comes across as human.
I also dislike Rose for similar reasons.
I feel like that too. The companion being "unimportant" and just a normal human being with a normal life is part of what makes the concept appealing to me. The more developed their life outside of the Doctor, the better. They should be special because they're human, and that's it.
I'd still like to see a companion from a different era (rip Clary Poppins), but I don't know when/if we'll ever get that in current Who.
This is a preference thing, though.
Clearly Clara will have a bigger impact on Doctor Who than a companion who is likely to be one-and-done, and half way through the season has been fairly tertiary to the plot at least half the time. Whether or not that impact is a good one, I'll leave up to debate.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Donna is very often considered to be one of the best companions in the series history. She had the one season. (plus a couple specials, I guess)
Sometimes one season is all you need.
It's not about the time you have, it's about what you do with it.
(which is why people consider Wilf one of the best companions, too)
Sometimes one season is all you need.
It's not about the time you have, it's about what you do with it.
(which is why people consider Wilf one of the best companions, too)
acheron_xl
Member
APZonerunner
Member
Yeah, like I actually think Rose & 9, Donna & 10, Amy & 11 - and I think the trajectory right now is for my stand-out memory to be Bill with Capaldi. I feel like Jenna - who is probably the... second best actress of the lot, actually got short-changed a bit with Clara, even if she got a lot of episodes.
But, yeah - there's a reason why Big Finish went for Donna first, and honestly I think the Rose stories would've been with 9 if not for Eccleston's lack of interest.
Anyway. Since the tardis has the gas in it,
Doc likely knows this full well and is gonna make his way to inside the pyramid and call the tardis in somehow. Then he will open the door and kill the monks with it. Because they chose a human corpse form they'll probably be affected by the gas.
World saved. The end. New pyramid.
Doc likely knows this full well and is gonna make his way to inside the pyramid and call the tardis in somehow. Then he will open the door and kill the monks with it. Because they chose a human corpse form they'll probably be affected by the gas.
World saved. The end. New pyramid.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Sort of, if you cut out the ex-military bit. Reacher wanders the USA like the Doctor wanders the universe, alone and at random. He's smart in a practical way and puzzles out whatever there is to puzzle out. Langdon may be an intellectual but he's only intellectual at one very precise and not very useful thing, he's like a semiology call centre.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
good
Similar threads
- Locked