This episode felt like Wedding of River Song where we see a detached overview of events, the connective tissues between each scene wasn't there. Make it seem like each solution just fell in the Doctor's lap rather than earned. I was expecting a big twist at the end just because the Doctor was facing no obstacle the whole way through.
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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time
- Thread starter tomtom94
- Start date
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I generally liked the RTD era, but that was some serious "love conquers all" bullshit right out if the worst part of his playbook.
I didn't really care for this episode at all. Knock Knock was bad, but was at least suspenseful. This was half a terrible "fooled you" waste of time followed by a decent commando raid followed by Love Ex Machina.
Meh. Parts 1 and 2 were so good, too.
I didn't really care for this episode at all. Knock Knock was bad, but was at least suspenseful. This was half a terrible "fooled you" waste of time followed by a decent commando raid followed by Love Ex Machina.
Meh. Parts 1 and 2 were so good, too.
ClivePwned
Member
The vid "Sherlock is Garbage" evicerates Moffat's work, including a section on Who. It's pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkoGBOs5ecM
LordRaptor
Member
Hot Coldman
Banned
That was boring as fuck. Man. Liked what it was going for but just, eh, never felt super compelling. It all felt extremely flat after the "regeneration".
Felt like they could have had way more fun with the concept of a renegade Doctor and Bill standing against. Like, surely the ideal ending is Bill ending up shooting the Doctor, signalling the end of her love for the Doctor, which would then turn out to be the thing keeping the Monks' tech in place? Right???
Felt like they could have had way more fun with the concept of a renegade Doctor and Bill standing against. Like, surely the ideal ending is Bill ending up shooting the Doctor, signalling the end of her love for the Doctor, which would then turn out to be the thing keeping the Monks' tech in place? Right???
Exterminieren
Banned
No offence, but I'd rather spent two hours watching a Sherlock and a half rather than listening to someone snottily pick it to death.
Ah yeah, definitely. Narratively it can get a bit tiring because I'm seeing these same scenarios used so much lately without a lot in the way of variety, but I agree that it's great that shows are doing it because it can be particularly educational at the moment. I can't complain much about the current overuse of fascism as an antagonistic force in fiction when I think of how ridiculous the worldwide political climate is. I agree that it's the time to push these messages to the front, especially if said shows are watched by younger people.
Now that I think about it, everyone just forgetting about it at the end of the episode is actually pretty appropriate, as is Bill allowing the Monks to take control without fully understanding of what her choice would mean for the world...
I don't even have to click, I already know Sherlock is garbage. Sherlock is just an unlikable asshole with no redeeming qualities in this version and Watson is a masochist who puts up with his behavior for no reason, why are they even friends? It's not believable at all.
Every episode is Sherlock assholing his way through London and being a condesending douche and then he reveals the killer.
Elementary is the better of the two present day Sherlock Homes shows, it's not even close.
ClivePwned
Member
WadiumArcadium
Member
It was better than The Pyramid at the End of the World but I can't help but feel a bit disappointed in this arc after how much I enjoyed Extremis. The opening fifteen or so minutes were great but it all went a bit downhill after the Doctor revealed he was just testing Bill. We didn't really learn anything more about the monks and they were never as intimidating as in Extremis.
The Elite
BOSS
It would have been a lot better if they had introduced the Monks in Extremis and just followed up with them later in the season or just didn't do anything with them at all. Leave them out there as an impending threat that some future showrunner can play with.
As it is now: Great setup and quickly rushed into irrelevance.
As it is now: Great setup and quickly rushed into irrelevance.
Agent Gibbs
Member
I was hoping that, she's just been irritating, questioning everything and making absolutely awful decisions - Christ she sacrificed an entire planet to give the Doctor his Sight back, that alone would have had previous doctors treat her as a villain and abandon her! Jack got abandoned for being an anomaly, Bill willingly sacrifices a planet to an invading force for some medical care for a doctor who can just regenerate or find another way
Can't wait for the Moffat era of Doctor Who to end. It's always the same:
- Companion might die, but of course doesn't
- Doctor might die, but of course doesn't
- Doctor is feared by everyone, the most important person in the universe
- Doctor always has a masterplan
This makes most of the episodes really predictable.
Really interested to see where the new showrunner is taking things.
- Companion might die, but of course doesn't
- Doctor might die, but of course doesn't
- Doctor is feared by everyone, the most important person in the universe
- Doctor always has a masterplan
This makes most of the episodes really predictable.
Really interested to see where the new showrunner is taking things.
You really think any of that will change?
I really, really, really hope so.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I assume Bill thought a Doctor that was at 100% could reverse any damage the Monks would cause.
As for regeneration, I don't think Bill was even aware the Doctor could regenerate when she gives her consent. Correct me if I'm wrong.
So it's a completely faithful adaptation of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes?
The same could be said about the RTD era as well.
Apart from the 'most important man in the universe' part, every classic series episode as well. And really, if you include that bit, still most of the classic series.
this is basically every Doctor Who episode in history. If you're looking for a show that doesn't do that, you're probably into the wrong franchise.
hell in classic Who it was often even worse because they had to manufacture a cliffhanger every half hour
True, but getting the Doctor back to a more quiet figure would be good. Having every fucker in awe of him constantly is tiresome.
I don't get how we've slowly drifted from Jade and the Forest not even knowing what he was and viewing him as a myth to every fucker been able to look up Doctor on the space internet and shitting themselves.
Especially as they've had multiple attempts to retcon him back to less of a big figure (Bad Wolf Virus, Soufle Clara Mindwipe, Bigbang 2)
I don't get how we've slowly drifted from Jade and the Forest not even knowing what he was and viewing him as a myth to every fucker been able to look up Doctor on the space internet and shitting themselves.
Especially as they've had multiple attempts to retcon him back to less of a big figure (Bad Wolf Virus, Soufle Clara Mindwipe, Bigbang 2)
The Elite
BOSS
Though the companions in the RTD era did suffer lasting negative effects from their travels with the Doctor, which I liked.
Moffat doesn't really do that to his companions. The closest was Clara at the end of series 8, but then y'know, she came back in series 9 and gained immortality and her own TARDIS.
Moffat doesn't really do that to his companions. The closest was Clara at the end of series 8, but then y'know, she came back in series 9 and gained immortality and her own TARDIS.
ClivePwned
Member
Is this the right time to use this gif?
yes. it's always time. That said, the best thing about the cliffhangers were the stings screaming into the end credits (Up until the Trial season).
Weren't Rory and Amy forced to live the rest of their lives 100 years in the past? That seems like a very long lasting negative effect.
I remember Eleven saying that he would work in the shadows for a while since he had gotten too famous but y'know, that didn't last very long.
Eh, they didn't seem too unhappy. They essentially returned to the family life that they were trying to have while they were (unsuccessfully) trying to go cold turkey from the Doctor that one time.
Eh, they didn't seem too unhappy. They essentially returned to the family life that they were trying to have while they were (unsuccessfully) trying to go cold turkey from the Doctor that one time.
Zeouterlimits
Member
They didn't even get to raise their own daughter! For the second half of their life they didn't get to see their daughter or their closest friend. Or their family, or anyone they knew from the first half of their life.
But they lived well, and they were very happy, since they had each other.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think what I loved more was the long lasting effect of the companions on the Doctor himself. Tenth was slowly destroyed over multiple seasons by what happened to his companions. It extremely well done.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think what I loved more was the long lasting effect of the companions on the Doctor himself. Tenth was slowly destroyed over multiple seasons by what happened to his companions. It extremely well done.
"Main characters might die, but then don't" could be said about many many TV shows.
Agent Gibbs
Member
I'd say she didn't know from what we have seen of them on screen, but this adventures have occurred over a period of time and we have got snippets of prior adventures, so who knows, in this show if the plot requires a companion to know something or not its entirely pot luck. The thing with that scenario though was she knew the Doctor as a man with a plan and could get out of everything (and even survived being in space for an extended period) and he could have found a way out - her choice was not trust the man she knew and instead go with the aliens the Doctor specifically forbade everyone from trusting and trust that they would actually help, its just stupid
Regardless the Doctor should have shown the same distain he did for her that he showed disobedient or different companions of the past and the fact he didn't was equally as odd to me
Eleven goes looking for Melody, finds her in the next episode
Eleven going back into the shadows, dropped by the end of the next season
Eleven looking for Gallifrey, he finds it in a crack in the next episode
Eleven being forgotten by the Daleks, they remember him just in time for their next appearance
Moffatt twists seem to simmer in the minds of the public while the show is off air and then be hand-waved away the moment it comes back
APZonerunner
Member
I think some of these criticisms are slightly duff, but my main issue with the Moffat era, which I've still enjoyed enormously, is the third of these points. It's that the show has become about the Doctor, right down to a season arc being dedicated to the question of 'Doctor Who', etcetera. Tennant's Doctor was brash and overconfident and fond of his "you have no idea who I am" speeches, but it's notable that he for all his grandiose speeches no enemies ever turned and ran from him based on the power of his name alone.
Not even, say, the Sontarans, who knew him specifically from his time in the Time War as well as all the past adventures in the classic series. Indeed, a lot of them were given chances/warnings and ignored them, forging on so he's forced to act against them. Except, of course, for in Silence of the Library/Forest of the Dead, which is really a prelude to Moffat's whole era.
This is actually the same criticism you can level at Sherlock too, in a way - the show is about how amazing Holmes is as a man more than it's about the mysteries he's solving, and that's actually a bit of a misstep, I think.
I feel like they chase this in search of developmental scenes for the Doctor, but you can find them without this - see sort of what we see Tennant's Doctor learn and change even in a relatively fluff story like The Doctor's Daughter, there's some big moments for him in there.
"Look me up"
Exterminieren
Banned
In fairness, that script was like a Moffat-era beta test.
quick reminder that it's canon that it's Clara who saves him from that. lol.
Is this the right time to use this gif?
APZonerunner
Member
As I say in the next paragraph... "Except, of course, for in Silence of the Library/Forest of the Dead, which is really a prelude to Moffat's whole era."
That idea is presented there, but it's obviously less problematic the first time than it is the sixth or whatever - also, that moment holds more power and makes more sense in a far-future library where his legend would be woven throughout countless books than it would... everywhere and anywhere.
LordRaptor
Member
For all the Moffat hate, as a longterm Who fan, I'm glad he gave us this
Fair enough, I missed that; distracted by the Sontarans.
CloudyTuba
Member
As someone who regularly enjoys listening to the 8th Doctor audio dramas, I'll never get over how cool that was.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Whatever happened to that Gallifrey thing anyway? I guess they gave him more regenerations and that's the end of that story?
CloudyTuba
Member
9 years of buildup to the return of Gallifrey culminating in the climax during the 50th anniversary special, then it just sort of came back off screen just in time for a single episode appearance before returning to irrelevance.
Yep, that's about it I guess.
Exterminieren
Banned
Good. Fuck Gallifrey.
Maybe I misheard, but didn't The Doctor straight up refer to Missy and himself as the last of the Time Lords again in the last episode?
That title doesn't really work when you brought a whole planet of them back.
Edit: Yeah, he introduces Missy as "The other last of the Time Lords." which makes no sense now that there's a planet of them kicking around again.
That title doesn't really work when you brought a whole planet of them back.
Edit: Yeah, he introduces Missy as "The other last of the Time Lords." which makes no sense now that there's a planet of them kicking around again.
CloudyTuba
Member
I don't think he means it literally. The Artist Formerly Known as the Last of the Time Lords. It's just sort of a title they both previously held with some importance that he brought up to illustrate the idea that they both were in that shit together.
CloudyTuba
Member
Back in the universe, but placed at the end of time to keep it out of view.
Exterminieren
Banned
Boy, The Lie of the Land does NOT hold up to a rewatch. What a shame.
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