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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

Best Capaldi season
Best Moffat season (I really dislike the Smith era a lot)
Best finale period.

I liked it a lot.



Rules stuff: If the Doctor doesn't have a regeneration limit and/or can use it to heal himself without regenerating into a new incarnation, why would he ever change? I personally don't think he has that much control over it.
 
I think Capaldi is a great Doctor but I don't think I'll ever be a fan of Moffat. He's got better since Smith era (which I really didn't enjoy) but still not up to RTD standards.

Shame Capaldi doesn't stay for one more season.
 
Capaldi's my current favorite doctor, so I'll miss him. I am actually pretty sad Bill is done already; I really liked her. She got only one series while Amy and Clara got two and a half? Bleurgh
 
That quick flashback of how the Doctor outwitted the Master and turned the Cybermen against them has to be the lowest point of the season. I almost stopped watching the finale because it opened witch such a bad scene.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
That quick flashback of how the Doctor outwitted the Master and turned the Cybermen against them has to be the lowest point of the season. I almost stopped watching the finale because it opened witch such a bad scene.

It was indeed a kinda jarring intro. I didn't particularly find screen time value in opening with the 'Doctor in Cybermans arms' either. It's the finale, and I think pacing wise it could have been used better
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
Just realized Stephen Moffat will have officially written television stories for the 1st, 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th Doctors. EIGHT Doctors out of twelve, not even including the War Doctor, who he created.

Blimey.
 

CryptiK

Member
Happy Bills gone dont think I could stand her another season.
Sad Missy is gone defs more could of happened there.
Torn on Nardole he had some good and bad things going.
Extremely sad Capaldi Doctor will be going.

Good finale.
 

Bluth54

Member
Just realized Stephen Moffat will have officially written television stories for the 1st, 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th Doctors. EIGHT Doctors out of twelve, not even including the War Doctor, who he created.

Blimey.

I imagine Moffat's one great regret is not writing for all of them.

He should of wrote new voice lines for 6 and 7 for the saving Gallifrey scene in the 50th so he had those two notches on his belt as well.
 

CryptiK

Member
Now that the Doctor has his Tardis I will be annoyes if they dont revist Nardol and the villagers if he doesnt he'd be leaving them for dead.
 
Thought it was a bit messy and boring honestly. No idea how people are calling this the best Capaldi series. Felt like a bit of a wet fart for Moffat to go out on.

Honestly think after 12 years the series is losing its appeal for me. A break after the Christmas special will be good, but my god Chibnall has got his work cut out for him.
 
I loved the finale.

I really wish Moffat hadn't written every off every companion the same way though. Bill's story here would have been so much more effective if I hadn't been 100% certain that Moffat would find some way to give her a long extended off screen life despite 'killing' her.

The over use of that trope undermined what would otherwise have been hugely effecting. At least for one season of Chibbers we will genuinely wonder if he'd actually kill a companion. That's going to be great. Remember when we actually believed he killed Rory and how great that was?

All that said, definitely the best post RTD season of the show. I'd put it behind season 3 and 4 (and not that far behind). Took a bit of a dip in the middle there with part 2 and 3 of the monk story, but it was nice how that tied in to the finale. The adventures were all basically stand alone, but things that happened to our heroes carried through to later adventures.

That's way better than the more convoluted attempts to tying seasons together than Moffat used in the middle there.

Capaldi was amazing. I wish we could have kept him for much longer, but I am very glad we got him for as long as we did. Best Nu Who doctor by far. Probably my second favorite ever at this point (behind Patrick Troughton).

I loved Broadchurch and season two of Torchwood. I've enjoyed many of Chibber's episodes of who (though not all). I didn't see Law and Order UK, so I have no idea about that. I'm very excited to see well written female characters again, and hope he brings something fresh to the series. Fingers crossed.

Moffat went out on a high. I'm glad he's leaving since he was always going to write the show the same way I guess, but this was the best season of his version of the show, and I'm very glad he didn't leave a season earlier.

Great job Moff. I don't want the door to hit you in the ass on the way out, but maybe if you could lock it after you've gone through that'd be nice.
 
I took it differently.

I took it that she was making sure he didn't fancy her and think he had a chance with her.

Why would you make that your last goodbye? Whereas "Against all odds, you're amazing and I do fancy you a bit" is something you might reveal to somebody when you're about to bite it.
 
Either way, if it was a subversion of the typical "If only things were different," or a straight-up "if only things were different," or "btw, remember Chekhov's Tear means something," it was clumsily inserted and didn't make much sense at all from any of those perspectives.

Especially once you remember it's not really Bill saying it, it's a weird original Cyberman in monotone parting its freaky cloth mouth and bleating "DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN I TOLD YOU I LIKE WOMEN" before trudging off to what they both believe is certain world-ending death.
 
Why would you make that your last goodbye? Whereas "Against all odds, you're amazing and I do fancy you a bit" is something you might reveal to somebody when you're about to bite it.

Eh, if he liked her, she didn't want to just up and leave without saying something about it. He's her friend.

More like, "Hey, before I piss off and leave you to die alone, I just want to make sure I'm not causing you more pain than I am currently aware of."

In reality it was just a fun little joke for the audience, even if it was a bit awkward within the fiction. Make the viewer think Bill is going to admit she was attracted to the Doctor, then SWERVE that wasn't what she was doing at all. HAW HAW.
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
Especially once you remember it's not really Bill saying it, it's a weird original Cyberman in monotone parting its freaky cloth mouth and bleating "DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN I TOLD YOU I LIKE WOMEN" before trudging off to what they both believe is certain world-ending death.

Oh man, this really made me laugh. Thank you.
 

Kurdel

Banned
Damn I can't get over how bad this episode was.

Bill as a Cyberman did not work at all, and he resolution was the most out of the left field bullshit possible.

Her character was basically "LGBT millenial with a killer smile", and she never really got to surpass that first impression. The whole pictures of her mother deal never paned out, and did she even go to school anymore? This might be the character the most corrupted by the Doctor amd they don't even adress that question. Only show a protracted 10 minute sequence where she looks in the mirror and asks the same questions over and over again.
 
Damn I can't get over how bad this episode was.

Bill as a Cyberman did not work at all, and he resolution was the most out of the left field bullshit possible.

Her character was basically "LGBT millenial with a killer smile", and she never really got to surpass that first impression. The whole pictures of her mother deal never paned out, and did she even go to school anymore? This might be the character the most corrupted by the Doctor amd they don't even adress that question. Only show a protracted 10 minute sequence where she looks in the mirror and asks the same questions over and over again.

How was it out of left field? It was properly set up in the first episode, and hinted at with the impossible tears in this episode. Heck someone on here actually called it after last week, and when I read it, I remember thinking 'That would make a lot of sense'.

Still, Moffat never could write women with any depth. Maybe I'm just relieved she wasn't a straight mans fetishized lipstick lesbian type or what have you.
 

Blader

Member
I'm not sure how people complaining about Moffat's deus ex machina resolutions ever made it through five years of RTD. Like, does anyone remember how all of those finales resolved themselves? Bad Wolf Rose, the archangel network, the poison gas box... hell, Journey's End even makes fun of this (or exploits it heavily, depending on your reading) by giving every companion their own deus ex machina device to use.

So I kinda don't know where this refusal to regenerate is coming from with Twelve. He's being like Ten except Ten had that whole character development built up over his entire run. This one just feels outta nowhere.

Ten didn't want to regenerate because he didn't want to die. Twelve didn't want to regenerate because he had just resigned himself to dying.

Her character was basically "LGBT millenial with a killer smile", and she never really got to surpass that first impression. The whole pictures of her mother deal never paned out, and did she even go to school anymore? This might be the character the most corrupted by the Doctor amd they don't even adress that question. Only show a protracted 10 minute sequence where she looks in the mirror and asks the same questions over and over again.

What deal? Bill doesn't have any pictures of her mother, the Doctor went back in time to take some for her to have. The end.
 
What deal? Bill doesn't have any pictures of her mother, the Doctor went back in time to take some for her to have. The end.

Not only that but that action figured in significantly during both the Monks three-parter and this finale.

Without those pictures, she isn't able to build a wall around her thoughts/feelings/memories.

Without her ability to build that wall, she doesn't help defeat the Monks or counter the cyber-programming.

The photos played in just fine.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Moff likes to have his cake and eat it too, in terms of companions "dying", but then continuing on in some fashion.

Doesn't really happen in classic who (except for the ones who were space travellers initially anyway), although the writing is often ungainly with characters being written off due to disputes or new producers arriving. RTD tended to find equally messy ways to moff to offload companions in his era. Basically nothing new, but moff always wants emotional rawness of a death without an actual death, and it doesn't work when you keep repeating it.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about Bill's fate. It would have been kind of amazing if she had died, but I suppose the water alien was as good a get out of jail free card as any.
 
Re-watching the episode and...



What was all this about?

It was more to indicate that the next regeneration is going to be a woman, i felt everything in this episode was
Leading to that conclusion, especially the flashbacks to all the women yelling his name, so if we can take anything from this, shes going to be a woman around bills age, mid 20's or so. I loved capaldi so much, its going to be heartbreaking to see him go, hes my favorite nu doctor. But im ready for another drastic change.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Especially once you remember it's not really Bill saying it, it's a weird original Cyberman in monotone parting its freaky cloth mouth and bleating "DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN I TOLD YOU I LIKE WOMEN" before trudging off to what they both believe is certain world-ending death.

Man oh man I roared

Would pay to see this as a deleted scene
 

OmegaFax

Member
Not only that but that action figured in significantly during both the Monks three-parter and this finale.

Without those pictures, she isn't able to build a wall around her thoughts/feelings/memories.

Without her ability to build that wall, she doesn't help defeat the Monks or counter the cyber-programming.

The photos played in just fine.

The arc for this series/season reaches almost Lost-style territory where things are introduced and often rarely explained or forgotten.

The entire thing with the Doctor going back in time to interact with her mother kind of quietly disappeared. Missy's imprisonment for 10,000 years ( think that's the number) ... and the people that mandated she stay in that prison were never bought up again.

I even that given how Missy had a concealed blade in her sleeve to her previous incarnation (Simm's Master), she didn't disarm him before letting him go into the list. Given we never see Missy wield the Laser Screwdriver at any point prior to this episode, I'm assuming the the Master's TARDIS and screwdriver were lost at some point.

Even in the Dark Water arc, The Doctor non-chilantly mentions that Missy had a TARDIS but it's never seen. She has vortex manipulators and that's about it.

Whether she is dead ... look at Simm's run as the Master with the 10th Doctor. He was literally embodied in a ring to be ritually regenerated by a bunch of crazies.You can never rule out a character dying in science fiction or comic books.

I still thought Missy's dead was crap. She's clearly capable of being quite literally backstabbing. Why she turned her back on someone equally capable of that level of treachery just seemed like a huge logical pitfall. With how she handled the Daleks and Cybermen with her "fake last second teleport" ... which itself is kind of a rip-off of a Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode that does the same thing.


They left the door open, River Song style, to show the Master being killed but still have the potential to regenerate into another form before Missy. This is totally intentional in order to give future episodes with a new showrunner the opportunity to bring the character back or make a new Master along with a new Doctor/Companion.

I think the cliffhanger and the numerous regeneration fake-outs were overused, utter bullshit. It's kind of an insult to the audience to leave it at a cliffhanger the way they did when they pretty much fake regenerated the Doctor for the last two weeks.

Some of the most respectable qualities of the show is its continuity but it's also one of its pitfalls. You get neat callbacks or vague references or completely ignored plot points that seem to go against what's happening in later episodes.

Going to make an assumption that Capaldi's Doctor was very difficult to write for. Smith and to an extent, Tennett were probably easier to write for and could fit with a wider range of stories. Capaldi, to me, had to be written with a specific set of mannerisms and dialog or it just wouldn't be believable or feel forced.
 

timberger

Member
Finale was pretty good, but kind of fizzled out badly in the last ten minutes.

The whole missy sub-plot just felt like it went nowhere by the end. So she feels bad about stuff...maybe? And that's about it? Wasn't enough of a payoff for a season long arc.

Also, multiple regeneration fake outs throughout the season was some seriously lame shit to pull... especially when a flash forward to one of them was the big opener for the climactic story.
 
Man i know it wont happen, but id love an episode where the new doctor goes back to 1920's new york and has an adventure with amy and rory, is it ever explained why he couldnt theoretically do it besides the like real reason of "the actors dont want to come back/moffat doesnt want to do it"
 

Symphonia

Banned
Man i know it wont happen, but id love an episode where the new doctor goes back to 1920's new york and has an adventure with amy and rory, is it ever explained why he couldnt theoretically do it besides the like real reason of "the actors dont want to come back/moffat doesnt want to do it"
If I remember rightly, Amy and Rory created such a paradox by dying that the TARDIS is now incapable of ever visiting them or 1920s NYC again -- or something like that. My memory of that episode is kind of hazy.
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
If I remember rightly, Amy and Rory created such a paradox by dying that the TARDIS is now incapable of ever visiting them or 1920s NYC again -- or something like that. My memory of that episode is kind of hazy.

Logically, couldn't Amy and Rory leave New York, only to get picked up in Texas or something?
 

Broken Joystick

At least you can talk. Who are you?
So the Christmas special is gonna be saving Gallifrey partly right? He was there but we've not seen it yet.

That's the common trail of thought. Would be great to see Capaldi and the first Doctor saving Gallifrey as their final actions before regeneration.

Hell, imagine if that close up of the Capaldi's eyes was a part of his regeneration. That would mean we saw him regenerate into another Doctor before we'd even seen 11 regenerate into 12!

Side note: This does make me wonder if Gallifrey will be much more prevalent in Chibnall's Who. I think I preferred it when it was just a place that the Doctor would reminisce on in the earlier series and we'd only ever get quick glimpses of it.

But I would also like to see it used as a place that evokes other feelings than "oh fuck the Doctor's home bad shit is going to happen".
 

OmegaFax

Member
What more did you want from that?

I don't know. I guess it's an open and shut case. I think my point is they kind of injected some heart and backstory with Bill. It reminded me of Clara being a nanny -> a teacher -> who cares. They kind of exist as companions but not actual people.

Pre-Moffat companions actually had a bit of consistency. Martha went back to her family, probably becoming a doctor? ... Donna forgot the Doctor and married (if I remembered) ... there's kind of a circle to these characters that Moffat's companions don't have.
 

Blader

Member
I don't know. I guess it's an open and shut case. I think my point is they kind of injected some heart and backstory with Bill. It reminded me of Clara being a nanny -> a teacher -> who cares. They kind of exist as companions but not actual people.

Pre-Moffat companions actually had a bit of consistency. Martha went back to her family, probably becoming a doctor? ... Donna forgot the Doctor and married (if I remembered) ... there's kind of a circle to these characters that Moffat's companions don't have.
RTD's companions went back to their lives after their adventures with the Doctor and were occasionally revisited later on, so you had a chance to see how they'd changed or not since. You had a bit of this with Amy and Rory between the end of S6 and Asylum of the Daleks, but for the most part it doesn't really happen with Moffat's companions because they end up dying and living a completely different existence afterward.
 

zeemumu

Member
Bill had it pretty rough as a companion considering how few episodes she's had compared to the others.

Mostly dead twice, almost assimilated, almost mind-wiped, painfully cyber converted, endured the vacuum of space for a bit, lived in a bad future for a bit, 10 years in a crappy hospital.
 
I liked the concepts and idea but the entire episode felt like a rush job. it had some good moments like the Doctor's speech to the two Masters but as a whole the execution was sloppy. It didn't really feel like John Simm's Master had to be there, if it wern't for the scene where
both Masters kill each other
then you could have replaced him with any character.

Bill as a Cyberman also fell a tad flat and her ending was just random. All in all the episode had some great moments but the poor pacing really got in the way,
 
I'm sad to say this, but I'm a bit disappointed. The episode itself was great, but all the regen fakeouts really took a toll on me. I really was hoping for even just a glimpse of the new Doctor.

Also, (spoilers for the final scene)

The First Doctor showing up was great and I'm looking forward to what will be an awesome Christmas special. I just wish I hadn't known that he was gonna appear! Damn spoilers.
 

ag-my001

Member
Logically, yes, but Moffat will no doubt come up with an excuse (or at least he would've done) as to why that's impossible. Wibbly, wobbly, timey, wimey.

That episode was big on the idea that once observed, things get "fixed", so I'd bet the Doctor finding that last page and reading it set the "Amy and Rory must live out their lives" into a fixed event. I'd say the same for Rory's letter to his father, but no idea if that counts as canon.
 
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