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[somedevil]

What do people consider the lows of 1-4? Looking through them...well...Aliens of London sucked, we can all agree on that. (and by extension Boom Town)
Series 2 was pretty much all gold, IMO. Tooth and Claw and Fear Her were mediocre, and that was the worst of it. Series 3 also didn't really have any stinkers to me although the finale built itself up and then fell over drunk in the final episode. Series 4...the Sontaren Stratagem wasn't all that hot, I guess.

I mean I really really liked 1-4.

Everyone has there opinions on what good and what is bad but I will disagree with that Series 3 had no stinkers. The Daleks storyline was horrible. Gridlock wasn't great and others were average. The stand outs were Blink and human nature and family of blood. Also, the lead to the finale was fine till the end when the doctor became gollum and then became jesus at the end.

I like Moffat's overall storylines more than RTD so far.

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh, tangentially related, Human Nature is where I think the Doctor's character started going downhill for me personally. That was where they ended with the ridiculous "when he told us to leave...he was being kind" bullshit followed by a montage of him doing things like trapping them in mirrors or black holes and shit.

All worship the almighty Doctor.

 

[cory.]

Oh, tangentially related, Human Nature is where I think the Doctor's character started going downhill for me personally. That was where they ended with the ridiculous "when he told us to leave...he was being kind" bullshit followed by a montage of him doing things like trapping them in mirrors or black holes and shit.

All worship the almighty Doctor.

A Good Man Goes To War was trying to reverse that, and we haven't really seen him in a situation like that since, so we don't know how it's affected him.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Oh, tangentially related, Human Nature is where I think the Doctor's character started going downhill for me personally. That was where they ended with the ridiculous "when he told us to leave...he was being kind" bullshit followed by a montage of him doing things like trapping them in mirrors or black holes and shit.

In fairness, the seventh Doctor pulled of merciless shit like that with alarming regularity. I don't know if you remember Davros begging him to save his planet, and The Doctor telling him "Goodbye Davros, it hasn't been pleasant" before hanging up on him and leaving him to die.

That's not including the Big Finish plays in which seven was often a quite sinister (but very interesting) figure. Scary Doctor is nothing new.

 

[marrec]

That's not including the Big Finish plays in which seven was often a quite sinister (but very interesting) figure. Scary Doctor is nothing new.

Scary Doctor is best Doctor.

 

[The Technomancer]

A Good Man Goes To War was trying to reverse that, and we haven't really seen him in a situation like that since, so we don't know how it's affected him.

Yeah, and I'm glad they are, but they could have not had that damn speech at the end of the Eleventh Hour
My problem isn't with scary Doctor (scary Doctor can be pretty awesome), my problem is with omnipotent awesome Doctor.
See also: series 3 finale where he wins because everyone believes in him, or Time of Stone where he delivers the ridiculous "trap" speech. (the actual actions were fine, but the speech was just pretentious)

I love it when they explore his dark side in a way that doesn't also make him out as a minor deity.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Oh, tangentially related, Human Nature is where I think the Doctor's character started going downhill for me personally. That was where they ended with the ridiculous "when he told us to leave...he was being kind" bullshit followed by a montage of him doing things like trapping them in mirrors or black holes and shit.

All worship the almighty Doctor.

Well, I kind of like how that story and The Waters of Mars show the Doctor as being not just a complete boy scout, but really having a dark side and hubris. It's an idea that the show explored quite a bit in the 80s, but hasn't really been touched on much outside of those two stories in recent years.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Fun episode tonight. Not great, not terrible. Just good.

I always love how whacky the Doctor is. That mirror thing where he checked his teeth was quite funny, and how the Rubick's Cube was broken. I also liked Rory's line "We're dead. Again."

Next week looks weird though. But it has multiple Amys, which is never a bad thing.

 

[Spotless Mind]

Fun episode tonight. Not great, not terrible. Just good.

This basically. Middle of the road story that i felt was well executed. The great monster designs and cinematography went a long way.

 

[maharg]

Yeah, and I'm glad they are, but they could have not had that damn speech at the end of the Eleventh Hour

I think the speech in Eleventh Hour was just intended to act as counterpoint to the similar speech given at the end of S5. Both speeches (but especially the later one) are quite ironic, because they don't necessarily back down because they're afraid of him, but because they have a plan that requires him to find the Pandorica.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that taking any individual episode of Moffat's run out of context doesn't really make any sense.

 

[lunarworks]

I always love how whacky the Doctor is. That mirror thing where he checked his teeth was quite funny, and how the Rubick's Cube was broken.

Matt Smith is a master of timing and delivery.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Matt Smith is a master of timing and delivery.

Agreed. His goofiness is what makes me love him so much, and makes this season and the last so damn fun. And this season we have the added benefit of Rory.

 

[lunarworks]

Agreed. His goofiness is what makes me love him so much, and makes this season and the last so damn fun. And this season we have the added benefit of Rory.

The 11th Doctor has a certain naïvety on the surface, but dead seriousness is lurking right below.

Also, I'm glad Rory now has equal billing.

 

[gabbo]

Agreed. His goofiness is what makes me love him so much, and makes this season and the last so damn fun. And this season we have the added benefit of Rory.

He doesn't do angry or menacing nearly as well.

 

[zychi]

Episode tonight is near the bottom of my list of Matt Smith episodes, but it wasn't terrible. It felt very out of place after the emotional train that was "Let's Kill Hitler." Fake scary episodes aren't my favorite, but it's still top-notch entertainment.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

He doesn't do angry or menacing nearly as well.

No he doesn't. But I was talking about how fun he is in the role. Now how brooding he is.

 

[Quick]

I liked this episode. It's a good filler episode, I think.

 

[ramyeon]

Typical filler episode. It wasn't awful but it wasn't great either.

 

[Zertez]

Ok episode tonight, but it felt like part of the episode was missing. I know the "alien" kid was controlling everything, but who was he and why would he come to two parents who couldnt have kids? What kind of aliens is he and what is his plans. I guess since the Doctor said he will be back later possibly during puberty we will find out later, but it is a little confusing what the alien was doing posing as a kid in the first place. Maybe I missed it.

 

[zychi]

Ok episode tonight, but it felt like part of the episode was missing. I know the "alien" kid was controlling everything, but who was he and why would he come to two parents who couldnt have kids? What kind of aliens is he and what is his plans. I guess since the Doctor said he will be back later possibly during puberty we will find out later, but it is a little confusing what the alien was doing posing as a kid in the first place. Maybe I missed it.

He's like a foster kid, the alien needs to feel accepted. He explains it when the "dad" saves him. He found the parents because they wanted a child desperately and couldn't have one. The alien just makes everyone think he looks human, and that he is actually their child. Pretty simple really.

 

[Zertez]

He's like a foster kid, the alien needs to feel accepted. He explains it when the "dad" saves him. He found the parents because they wanted a child desperately and couldn't have one. The alien just makes everyone think he looks human, and that he is actually their child. Pretty simple really.

If he was just a foster kid, why would the parents have little memory of adopting him or when he suddenly appeared in their life. The dad seemed like his memory was erased, altered and out of the blue he had a kid. It wasnt like he went through the adoption process. The alien sort of just showed up. Out of all the places in the world/universe, why show up to this couple that couldnt have children. Im sure Im over thinking it, but the whole thing seems odd to me. The "kid" shows up to a couple who are sad because they cant have kids and he ends up causing nothing but trouble.

 

[marrec]

If he was just a foster kid, why would the parents have little memory of adopting him or when he suddenly appeared in their life. The dad seemed like his memory was erased, altered and out of the blue he had a kid. It wasnt like he went through the adoption process. The alien sort of just showed up. Out of all the places in the world/universe, why show up to this couple that couldnt have children. Im sure Im over thinking it, but the whole thing seems odd to me. The "kid" shows up to a couple who are sad because they cant have kids and he ends up causing nothing but trouble.

Sounds like a kid to me.

You're overthinking it, the Alien thing made them forget that she couldn't have Children in order to better fit in.

 

[RetroMG]

What do people consider the lows of 1-4?

What the hell, I'll do this.

Season 1
Highs: Dalek, Empty Child/Doctor Dances
Lows: Aliens of London/World War 3
A lot of people would say Boom Town as a low, but I like it. The subtext of the Blon/Doctor and Mickey/Rose conversations are interesting.

Season 2
Highs: Christmas Invasion, Girl in the Fireplace, School Reunion
Lows: Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her, Love and Monsters
I'm not a huge fan of the initial Cyberman two-parter, either. And I initially forgot Love and Monsters because I haven't watched it since the first time.

Season 3
Highs: Blink, Human Nature/Family of Blood
Lows: Daleks in Manhatten/Evolution of the Daleks, Last of the Time Lords
I strongly dislike Martha.

Season 4
Highs: Partners in Crime, Turn Left
Lows: Planet of the Ood
I disliked Midnight, and enjoyed Stolen Earth/Journey's End, so YMMV

Specials
High: Waters of Mars
Low: Planet of the Dead
I mostly like End of Time, but I do spend a fair bit of it rolling my eyes, too.

Season 5
Highs: Amy's Choice, The Lodger, Vincent and the Doctor, Most of the Series.
Lows: Beast Below, Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
Side note: We named our dog Rory because he was not very bright and very needy. Then Rory became awesome at the end of S5.

Season 6
Highs: Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon, Doctor's Wife, Good Man Goes to War
Lows: Curse of the Black Spot, Night Terrors, Rebel Flesh/Almost People

 

[RetroMG]

Sorry for a double post, but I hadn't seen this posted and I didn't want to add it as a edit.

Sylvester McCoy doing the Stonehenge speech from Pandorica Opens

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Its interesting how many people are describing this episode as 'filler'. Its directly a consequence of Moffat's arc structure that any episode that doesn't advance the 'Doctor's Death' plot ends up having its significance reduced.
Moffat does seem to have recognised this is an issue, though.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Sorry for a double post, but I hadn't seen this posted and I didn't want to add it as a edit.

Sylvester McCoy doing the Stonehenge speech from Pandorica Opens

Way too slow. :lol

 

[GillianSeed79]

Its interesting how many people are describing this episode as 'filler'. Its directly a consequence of Moffat's arc structure that any episode that doesn't advance the 'Doctor's Death' plot ends up having its significance reduced.
Moffat does seem to have recognised this is an issue, though.

I sooo can't wait until the Dr. is dead plot is over. I honestly thought this episode was written by RTD though. I honestly looked over at my clock and thought this was going to be a two-parter until the RTD end in the last few minutes.

 

[JonathanEx]

Ratings: 5.5m for Who vs 6.6m for Red vs Black.

Obviously, we all know by now that overnights mean nothing, Doctor Who is the most timeshifted programme on TV and breaks all records for it, but another point...

This is good. If people would rather watch a glorified show of coin flipping in the X Factor presentation style of sob stories and dramatic voices and 3D text covering up any substance, then let them. Don't watch Doctor Who. If any of them used to watch Doctor Who and now go "oh it's a bit complex now I don't like it", then good, piss off. I'm glad they're watching their lowest common denominator shite rather than Doctor Who dumbing down to appeal to more people.

And rant over.

 

[Fusion Pizza]

So my sister got me into this series, she's slowly becoming a geek/nerd, I contribute it largely to Netflix, she watches alot of movies and when she'd exhausted all the stuff she liked on their she moved onto TV then eventually BSG. It's nice to have your twin get into the stuff you like.

 

[Discotheque]

So my sister got me into this series, she's slowly becoming a geek/nerd, I contribute it largely to Netflix, she watches alot of movies and when she'd exhausted all the stuff she liked on their she moved onto TV then eventually BSG. It's nice to have your twin get into the stuff you like.

whoa...I got my sister onto BSG and then Doctor Who right after too.

 

[Clegg]

Ratings: 5.5m for Who vs 6.6m for Red vs Black.

Obviously, we all know by now that overnights mean nothing, Doctor Who is the most timeshifted programme on TV and breaks all records for it, but another point...

This is good. If people would rather watch a glorified show of coin flipping in the X Factor presentation style of sob stories and dramatic voices and 3D text covering up any substance, then let them. Don't watch Doctor Who. If any of them used to watch Doctor Who and now go "oh it's a bit complex now I don't like it", then good, piss off. I'm glad they're watching their lowest common denominator shite rather than Doctor Who dumbing down to appeal to more people.

And rant over.

Wasnt Doctor Who cancelled because the writers started focusing more and more on what the fans wanted rather than the average viewer?

I d rather have slightly less ambitious stories if it meant DW would stay on air. Thats why Im liking this series so much but I expect that Series 7 will be less ambitious in its manin Story Arc.

 

[JonathanEx]

Wasnt Doctor Who cancelled because the writers started focusing more and more on what the fans wanted rather than the average viewer?

I think we're so far away from that happening it's not worth worrying about.

Obviously, you want to appeal to a strong size audience, but if people genuinely want to watch Ant and Dec's pointless padded luckfest and then the most scripted show on television then it's not worth trying to get them as they're distracted by ooh shiny shiny lights.

 

[maharg]

Wasnt Doctor Who cancelled because the writers started focusing more and more on what the fans wanted rather than the average viewer?

I'm not sure who they were focusing on in the last 5 or so years of the old Who's run, but I don't think it was either hardcore fans or the average viewer. They were making pretty atrocious choices left and right back then. That's why it went off the air.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

They were making pretty atrocious choices left and right back then.

Never forget.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Never forget.

What the hell?

 

[Axiom]

Towards the end of the original run the show was actually pretty decent again - but it could not recover from the clusterfuck that was the previous decade of the show. People turned off in droves when Colin Baker showed up, people at the BBC who hated the show were getting promoted ever upwards and censorship watchdogs got even further on its ass for not having 'child safe stories'. When they did finally do a 'soft reboot' with McCoy, his first series learned the wrong lessons from what went wrong with Colin Baker. Not to mention John Nathan Turner was basically forced to run the show for years after he'd lost any and all interest in it, actively wanted off the show and it came to be looked at as a bit of a dead-end job.

Doctor Who was not an easy show to cancel, but damn people tried hard.

Ace was a better proto-Rose than Rose turned out to be.

 

[smarties00]

Never forget.

Haha! Best cliffhanger ever.

Is any of McCoys run actually worth watching?

 

[Sage00]

Gatiss really is a terrible writer, isn't he?

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Last night's episode: 'twas alright, standard 'monster of the week' episode really, one of those episodes that everyone forgets by the end of the series. Shame it wasn't as creepy as the adverts made it out to be, the potential was definitely there (good thing there weren't any sock puppets)

Never forget.

So bad on so many levels.

 

[Santiako]

Never forget.

What was he trying to accomplish with that?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Gatiss really is a terrible writer, isn't he?

He seems to be cursed when it comes to Doctor Who. Night Terrors is definitely his best effort so far, and The Unquiet Dead was good too. I like Idiot's Lantern also, and I'm not as big as a hater of VotDaleks as most, but I recognise those episodes are hardly stellar. Anyway, he's a damn fine writer outside of Who- his Sherlock episode was wonderful.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Is that the first time ITV have beaten Who in the ratings?
Anyway, Moffat does seem to agree the show has got too continuity-heavy, he's already talked about next year being different.

 

[The Elite]

Towards the end of the original run the show was actually pretty decent again - but it could not recover from the clusterfuck that was the previous DOCTOR. People turned off in droves when Colin Baker showed up, people at the BBC who hated the show were getting promoted ever upwards and censorship watchdogs got even further on its ass for not having 'child safe stories'. When they did finally do a 'soft reboot' with McCoy, his first series learned the wrong lessons from what went wrong with Colin Baker. Not to mention John Nathan Turner was basically forced to run the show for years after he'd lost any and all interest in it, actively wanted off the show and it came to be looked at as a bit of a dead-end job.

Doctor Who was not an easy show to cancel, but damn people tried hard.

Ace was a better proto-Rose than Rose turned out to be.

Fixed.

Davison was great in his run. The crap begins and ends with Colin. I agree about McCoy's first season though.

 

[bengraven]

Maybe my opinion doesn't matter because I was introduced to the show through the Eccleston era (due to being an American who could never find it on PBS when it was on in the 20 years prior).

But this is my favorite show on television. Every episode is beautifully filmed, I love all the main characters, I even dig the meta-story.

As I said, maybe I don't "count" as being a Whovian because I was late to the party and/or an American, but whatever this show is, it's my favorite show on TV. Maybe it's not "Doctor Who" but it's better than whatever that show Doctor Who is supposed to be.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I've never watched a single episode of the old stuff (the TV movie doesn't count, I guess :lol) but if someone tries to imply that I'm not a fan, they can go suck it.

 

[infiniteloop]

As I said, maybe I don't "count" as being a Whovian because I was late to the party and/or an American, but whatever this show is, it's my favorite show on TV.

Personally, i think even if you've only seen 1 episode it doesn't make you less of fan than someone who's seen every episode since 1963.

 

[The Technomancer]

Personally, i think even if you've only seen 1 episode it doesn't make you less of fan than someone who's seen every episode since 1963.

I watched a lot of 4 and 5 when I could catch them on PBS as a kid and it really annoys me how impossible it is to track down stuff from 1-3 nowadays.

There are two shows that I would save up for years and buy complete DVD collections of: the entire DW run and Nova.

 

[The Elite]

Maybe my opinion doesn't matter because I was introduced to the show through the Eccleston era (due to being an American who could never find it on PBS when it was on in the 20 years prior).

But this is my favorite show on television. Every episode is beautifully filmed, I love all the main characters, I even dig the meta-story.

As I said, maybe I don't "count" as being a Whovian because I was late to the party and/or an American, but whatever this show is, it's my favorite show on TV. Maybe it's not "Doctor Who" but it's better than whatever that show Doctor Who is supposed to be.

You count.

I watched a lot of 4 and 5 when I could catch them on PBS as a kid and it really annoys me how impossible it is to track down stuff from 1-3 nowadays.

There are two shows that I would save up for years and buy complete DVD collections of: the entire DW run and Nova.

I'd buy them all as well. It would be nice if they used Blu-Ray capacity to store a ton of stories on a single disc. I'm sure Tom Baker's run would take up about 6 blu-rays at 480i/p. I don't really need/want them in HD, save any episodes that were shot entirely on film.

 

[bengraven]

Personally, i think even if you've only seen 1 episode it doesn't make you less of fan than someone who's seen every episode since 1963.

And the funny thing is, to me, like millions of other people, Doctor Who is still Tom Baker. Even before I watched the new series or ANY Who, when someone said DW, I thought Baker. Because whenever someone on TV or in some geeky magazine (EGM, Wizard, Fantagoria) mentioned Who, it was Baker and his huge scarf. That should score me some points with the cynics, but not likely.

 

[gabbo]

Never forget.

This didn't lead into the Paul McGann tv-movie did it?