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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
- Thread starter Quick
- Start date
Really liked this. Good finale, can't wait to see what Capaldi's Doctor will go and do next (although I'll have to wait a while).
Christmas episode looks like a christmas episode. Meh.
My girlfriend was in tears at points, but she's a bit of a pussy when it comes to Capaldi doing his sad eyes.
Christmas episode looks like a christmas episode. Meh.
My girlfriend was in tears at points, but she's a bit of a pussy when it comes to Capaldi doing his sad eyes.
Ah, but the death still happens in 2015 on the trap street in London. The Doctor was trying to break that, to start the heartbeat again. Clara still doesn't have one, so that's not an issue
I cringed when I saw that they brought Clara back, but the idea that she is still technically dead and she can travel for as long as she wants with Ashildr is pretty cool. Time is safe as long as she faces the raven eventually. And considering that her death is shown on screen and time didn't fracture, it's assumed that she did eventually.
So her final death in Face the Raven really was her final death, and I'd like to think that is why she takes that one, long, final intake of breath before death claims her, after existing for so long without really breathing or living.
I think this would be a fantastic opportunity for some spin off novels, or even Big Finish stories. The adventures of Clara and Ashildr in their own TARDIS, amazing.
I have no qualms with how Clara's story ended. And the rest of the episode was pretty solid too, I loved the explanation of the Matrix, and I loved the white male to black female regeneration.
So her final death in Face the Raven really was her final death, and I'd like to think that is why she takes that one, long, final intake of breath before death claims her, after existing for so long without really breathing or living.
I think this would be a fantastic opportunity for some spin off novels, or even Big Finish stories. The adventures of Clara and Ashildr in their own TARDIS, amazing.
I have no qualms with how Clara's story ended. And the rest of the episode was pretty solid too, I loved the explanation of the Matrix, and I loved the white male to black female regeneration.
N7Commander95
Member
I dont find it that weak tbh. The opener was great, Under the lake was awesome, and while I dont like the Girl Who Died I feel that the awesomeness of the Women who lived makes it retroactively better
Quick Mustard
Member
Ah, I didnt think about it like that.
Well, all the numbers in this one bugged me. The Doctor was in the dial 4.5 Billion years, bringing him up to presumably about 17Billion years post big bang; and the Universe is already ending? Wasn't it supposed to last until the year 100 trillion?
Other than that, though, loved this episode. What we saw of Gallifrey matched the ongoing plots there without being too continuity heavy; and we get to have Clara's perfect death from last week but also a chance for a Big Finish spinoff for her in the future. She gets to actually be the Doctor before dying. And I really like the idea of the Doctor having a companion he just can't remember.
Also, Christmas looked fun from what we saw in the previews. I like River and I love Greg Davies.
Other than that, though, loved this episode. What we saw of Gallifrey matched the ongoing plots there without being too continuity heavy; and we get to have Clara's perfect death from last week but also a chance for a Big Finish spinoff for her in the future. She gets to actually be the Doctor before dying. And I really like the idea of the Doctor having a companion he just can't remember.
Also, Christmas looked fun from what we saw in the previews. I like River and I love Greg Davies.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Oh he's basically left Clara and Ashildr for Big Finish, I'm sure of that. Or a spinoff honestly. Much rather those two than Paternoster for sure.
Was that really necessary though ?
I mean come on, why does this even have to be a plot point for a finale. He's more than 2000 years old, and "lived" even far beyond that. I thought even part of last week's episode was resolving that thing of him letting go. Like jeez. Even in the episode Me makes fun of him, and part of the audience, for being like this and she was right.
If anything, this just completely validates that Moffat cannot commit to death and from here on out just every character will never ever be in danger of dying. That's all there is
tonysidaway
Member
Gallifrey rebooted, Clara gone, Ashildr gets a companion and a TARDIS, the Hybrid McGuffin resolved.
And...
preliminary notes towards a nascent spaghetti western: Once Upon a Time on Gallifrey.
Gallifrey was hidden at someplace at the end of the universe, I don't think you're supposed to assume the time the Doctor spend in the dial had any effect on that.
But he said last episode that he didn't time travel? So he was in the dial from 2015 to 4.5billion; so how did he get to Gallifrey at the end of the universe?
N7Commander95
Member
BTW Here is the poster for Hell Bent
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Look, it's better when it's occasional and comes out in an unexpected way. If hes angry all the time it will be boring as hell.I like how they did away with angry doctor almost right away
tonysidaway
Member
1. This isn't a surprise. "Everybody lives" is a Moffat saying from The Doctor Dances.
2. This isn't a problem. Doctor Who hates endings.
In terms of timeline, Clara is his longest lasting companion I think, what was only a few years for her was likely a thousand years or more for the Doctor. He wasn't kidding when he called Clara his best friend, and that is not even counting the fact that due to her spintering into his time stream AND meeting him as a child, he has known her longer than anyone else in his entire life with the exception of perhaps Missy.
It's no wonder that he wouldn't want to let her go.
That was a good end to Season 9.
The core of the story itself was touching. The Doctor trying to save Clara from death itself, and willing to go Timelord Victorious all over again. But that was probably one of Moffat's better twists - Clara remembers everything, and the Doctor wipes his own memories of her.
My issue with Face the Raven was directly addressed here - Clara didn't get much of a sendoff. Turns out, this was Moffat giving us a crazy one. Clara and Ashildr get a TARDIS together, she maybe goes on some adventures, goes back to Gallifrey, then back to her last heartbeat. No one in the timeline in Face the Raven the wiser. Clara becomes the Doctor for however long she wants without repercussions.
Seeing another Time Lord regenerate was cool as hell. For something that's become a spectacle for us with the Doctor was treated nonchalantly with the General regenerating into a woman.
It was funny to hear 12 mention Amy and Rory, like how he called Clara Handles in Deep Breath. It was nice, too. I always enjoy callbacks.
Moffat must've been patting himself on the back with renaming Ashilder as Me. "I can make plenty of cryptic references!" But I didn't mind any of them, really.
I'm not sure if we'll ever see an episode that precedes the 12th Doctor coming in to save Gallifrey. I'd actually love to see an episode that goes into that, but I'm wary on how Moffat would write that up.
Christmas Special looks really light. I don't mind that at all. Is it worth a separate thread? I can make one up.
The core of the story itself was touching. The Doctor trying to save Clara from death itself, and willing to go Timelord Victorious all over again. But that was probably one of Moffat's better twists - Clara remembers everything, and the Doctor wipes his own memories of her.
My issue with Face the Raven was directly addressed here - Clara didn't get much of a sendoff. Turns out, this was Moffat giving us a crazy one. Clara and Ashildr get a TARDIS together, she maybe goes on some adventures, goes back to Gallifrey, then back to her last heartbeat. No one in the timeline in Face the Raven the wiser. Clara becomes the Doctor for however long she wants without repercussions.
Seeing another Time Lord regenerate was cool as hell. For something that's become a spectacle for us with the Doctor was treated nonchalantly with the General regenerating into a woman.
It was funny to hear 12 mention Amy and Rory, like how he called Clara Handles in Deep Breath. It was nice, too. I always enjoy callbacks.
Moffat must've been patting himself on the back with renaming Ashilder as Me. "I can make plenty of cryptic references!" But I didn't mind any of them, really.
I'm not sure if we'll ever see an episode that precedes the 12th Doctor coming in to save Gallifrey. I'd actually love to see an episode that goes into that, but I'm wary on how Moffat would write that up.
Christmas Special looks really light. I don't mind that at all. Is it worth a separate thread? I can make one up.
Gallifrey: Well no one knows really what is happening. Gallifrey is not "rebooted" on anything. Although they just decided it was back ? That's it, just found it ? Because that's equally as bad for me. I thought it was still lost in a pocket universe.
I have no care for Ashildr and Clara. The latter was supposed to be dead two episodes ago, and actually have something meaningful to the series in terms of consequences. And the hybrid mcguffin was resolved like a slaughterhouse resolves a bovine population.
I don't know, just a lot of flash with little substance to me
Maybe the multiple shots of Clara in her final moments in Face the Raven were alluding to the fact she was being taken and put back in? I did find that choice in repeating the shot and scream a bit odd.
Yep. The Doctor was 1200 when he met Clara. He's now 2000. She's been his longest companion.
Yep. The Doctor was 1200 when he met Clara. He's now 2000. She's been his longest companion.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I lost it at "Run you clever boy, and be a Doctor." They hadn't called back to her earlier days much so that got me good.
That was good. Plus him putting on the velvet coat.
N7Commander95
Member
I dont particularly understand how anyone could call this episode confusing. Maybe some of the final details, but the core plot is pretty bloody simple.
My problem are these Companion-Goodbye Episodes are too focused on The Doctor being sad and going "Don't leave!" all the time.
And each time, the writers seem to make it worse for him for the "Emotional Value".
Can't wait until the next Companion leaves and The Doctor starts either curling up in a ball and crying or just brooding forever.
And each time, the writers seem to make it worse for him for the "Emotional Value".
Can't wait until the next Companion leaves and The Doctor starts either curling up in a ball and crying or just brooding forever.
The Elite
BOSS
It's straight forward.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I went from being irritated Clara didn't bow out in the Christmas special last year to being really sad to see her go tonight. Good writing all round this series really.
I just assumed he time travelled when he got through the wall. Surely the Time Lords are capable of that.
Missy was the person who gave Clara the number for "tech support" which got her to call the TARDIS leading to The Doctor meeting her.
Also did anyone else laugh when they told him to lay down his weapons and the camera focused on in him dropping his spoon?
lol YES!
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
He was angry for all of 30 seconds.
Where was his confession dial, anyway? So he has it on him, gets teleported inside it and it goes from earth to Gallifrey? Then when he leaves it he travels into Gallifrey's future? I just don't get the logistics...
To me, at least from first viewing, it made Clara look really selfish. She acknowledges the Doctor spent 4.5 billion years working to save her, seemingly was against the idea of being saved, allows a coin flip to determine if the Doctor or her forget the other, then takes a TARDIS and goes off with Ashildir rather than go "Face The Raven" like she seemed so hell bent on doing.
Like, if she can do that, why didn't her and The Doctor just do that? I'm sure it can all be explained away, but I don't know, it just seemed so...weird
Like, if she can do that, why didn't her and The Doctor just do that? I'm sure it can all be explained away, but I don't know, it just seemed so...weird
She's still going to face the raven, she's just taking a trip beforehand.
The Doctor was hellbent on saving her. Giving her a heartbeat again. That didn't happen so Clara has to go back to Gallifrey and get rejoined. However, there's nothing stopping her travelling before then.
It's a Paso. That's Latin.
So why didn't The Doctor just take her travelling again? If she still goes to face the raven and never regains her heartbeat, the universe wouldn't fracture, right? Going 50/50 on the memory eraser seemed like it would benefit neither of them.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It was more the fact that he was willing to go to ridiculous, impossible lengths to save her. You saw what he was like, the lengths he went to to protect her.
Because he admitted he goes too far for her and that it's not good for either of them.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
My least favorite new Who season had my favorite Capaldi ep and favorite companion exit
So I guess it was still memorable, but boy was there nothing else to write home about this year
So I guess it was still memorable, but boy was there nothing else to write home about this year
My guess is you don't exactly want a large casting decision to be limited by something when it could be anything (literally). I'm sure we'll get a non white male doctor at some point, and I've got no complaints myself as Capaldi has killed it as doctor.
Well at this point you're talking about fictional time lord tech so I can't say I'm clear on the details there.
Not bothering me as much as it's bothering you though.How I'd interpret it is:
- Doctor has the dial on him in London
- Teleporter teleports him to the castle location which would be inside of the confession dial. Except that the Doctor can tell how much time has passed from the starts so that makes it look like a real place to me. Maybe it's both somehow? Either way, no time travel during his stay there. Just regular old time passing
- By breaking the wall in the castle the Doctor travels through time and space to Gallifrey's location at the end of the universe. He's in the same condition as back when he was on London so he has the dial on him. Except this time it has recorded some of his confessions.
Most of this is designed by the time lords except for the time the Doc spent in the castle and them not getting the confession they wanted. That's due to the Doctor being stubborn.
I don't know if that's enough to go on for your liking tho
Well at this point you're talking about fictional time lord tech so I can't say I'm clear on the details there.
How I'd interpret it is:
- Doctor has the dial on him in London
- Teleporter teleports him to the castle location which would be inside of the confession dial. Except that the Doctor can tell how much time has passed from the starts so that makes it look like a real place to me. Maybe it's both somehow? Either way, no time travel during his stay there. Just regular old time passing
- By breaking the wall in the castle the Doctor travels through time and space to Gallifrey's location at the end of the universe. He's in the same condition as back when he was on London so he has the dial on him. Except this time it has recorded some of his confessions.
Most of this is designed by the time lords except for the time the Doc spent in the castle and them not getting the confession they wanted. That's due to the Doctor being stubborn.
I don't know if that's enough to go on for your liking tho
...yup, that'll do. Works for me! Cheers Scarl.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Great episode. I loved it.
But it's a shame that they couldn't get Timothy Dalton back for Rassilon. I'd have liked some consistency with the role.
But it's a shame that they couldn't get Timothy Dalton back for Rassilon. I'd have liked some consistency with the role.
zzz....Clara's goodbye went on way too long. I don't care about Clara. I care about Gallifrey and the Timewar and all that stuff.
Considering how Clara's bisexuality is well-established, including sleeping with her own future self, you know her and Ashildr hooked up.
Xmas ep looks very child-orientated. Like that horrible ep with Nick Frost as Santa.
Considering how Clara's bisexuality is well-established, including sleeping with her own future self, you know her and Ashildr hooked up.
Xmas ep looks very child-orientated. Like that horrible ep with Nick Frost as Santa.