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[Apdiddy]

Eh, I liked this episode less the more I think about it.

I watched Heaven Sent the second time and I was wrong. It held up better and was a better show. It made you feel that the Doctor (once he got out of the trap) would be mad as hell and re-start the Time War.

Instead, he gets to Gallifrey and in a bit of deus ex machina, becomes the de facto Lord President of Gallifrey. To me, the episode should had the Doctor become that role and realize what it meant. Instead, it was another trick from him.

There was a scene earlier where Rasillon was going to take away the Doctor's regenerations....I almost wished that the resolution for Clara would be she is granted regenerations but cannot travel with the Doctor anymore. Otherwise, the Doctor will die instantly (again, the reverse of Donna Noble except it affects the Doctor and not one of his companions). Part of me also wish the Doctor sent Rasillon to the "last will and treatment" device just to keep him occupied and madder than hell when he gets out. Instead, he just flies away, which is incredibly stupid.


Whoever mentioned the Clara the Doctor sees is one of the fragments that jumped into his timestream, that would have been a better resolution. Clara realizing that she isn't durable like the Doctor is and sacrificing herself (again) would have been better. It would always open up the possibility that Clara can still be involved (albeit unseen by the Doctor again, except willfully this time).

Instead, there's two TARDISes and essentially Clara will come back anytime Moffat needs her/Jenna Coleman is available.

Hopefully, Series/Season 10 will have no mention of Clara whatsoever and focus on the Doctor splintering time, Rasillon sending Gallifrey after him, and how the Master became Missy.

 

[Boem]

Instead, he gets to Gallifrey and in a bit of deus ex machina, becomes the de facto Lord President of Gallifrey. To me, the episode should had the Doctor become that role and realize what it meant. Instead, it was another trick from him.

Tom Baker's version of the Doctor became the President of the Timelords at one point, which sort of happened by accident (it just happened because of a plan he was working on at the time, he had no interest in actually bothering with those idiots). He consequently buggered off again at the end of the story because just travelling around and having adventures was more fun, and when he returned to Gallifrey some stories later he assumed he was still the President, but they replaced him because he ran away right after he became president in the first place. That was a fun little storyline for a while.

I can see what you're saying about how it would be interesting to see the Doctor in that role, but I think the Doctor has understood for a long time that he has no interest at all in having that much power. He never liked the ruling class of Gallifrey, even before the Time War, but he knows that he isn't the person who could responsibly handle that kind of power either. They sort of touch on that in this episode as well, with him almost unraveling time just to save one person.

 

[paradox121]

Interestingly, there wasn't any truth to the "Doctor working backwards after Clara died to keep seeing her" theories. Which does make some of the more fatalistic turns of phrase used seem a bit odd.

You could potentially read it that Clara has died multiple times by the start of the season and the Doctor has repeatedly gone back and slightly altered things. The only thing that stopped him in Face the Raven was being zapped away, and then he went and immediately saved her once he had the chance. One thing I really like about this episode is that it focuses on the fact that the Doctor can't stop himself from saving people he loves repeatedly. He refuses to let Clara go no matter what.

 

[Quick Mustard]

I loved the episode, but I think my personal gripe with it is the use of Gallifrey

Reading that Moffat was looking to leave at the end of the Christmas Special this year makes me think he decided to bring it all back just for completion sake.

It just feels like it could've been used better than how it was.

But it was still good to see it all.

 

[Apdiddy]

I can see what you're saying about how it would be interesting to see the Doctor in that role, but I think the Doctor has understood for a long time that he has no interest at all in having that much power. He never liked the ruling class of Gallifrey, even before the Time War, but he knows that he isn't the person who could responsibly handle that kind of power either. They sort of touch on that in this episode as well, with him almost unraveling time just to save one person.

I honestly thought that was where they were going with the story -- the Doctor becomes Lord President and has the Commander pluck Clara out of the timestream and takes her to Gallifrey. The Doctor (wearing the ridiculous regalia and glove) grants Clara a set of regenerations, gives her a TARDIS and is about to do more until he's stopped by Rasillon or the sisterhood of Karn. It would tie in with 'every rule he had he's breaking' that the story tried to stress. He puts her back into the timestream and then wipes his memory of the events and is dumped back in Nevada. She gets hit by the Raven, dies....then starts a regeneration. The Doctor (in the time of Face the Raven) is perplexed by this and realizes that Clara truly has become like him somehow. It would also undo Heaven Sent / Hell Bent completely.

 

[Htown]

A clever thing i like about the prophecy is that the 'he will burn a billion hearts to heal his own' isn't reffering to galifrey or anywhere really, its reffering to the billions of doctors in heaven sent that burned so that the survivour could heal his heart at the end of the uNiverse.

. . .

Well, shit.

 

[Razmos]

There was a scene earlier where Rasillon was going to take away the Doctor's regenerations....

I think what he meant was "How many regenerations did we give you?... Doesn't matter I suppose, I've got all night, I'll keep killing you until you are finally dead" rather than actually taking away his regenerations.

 

[Little Old Man]

I loved the episode, but I think my personal gripe with it is the use of Gallifrey

Reading that Moffat was looking to leave at the end of the Christmas Special this year makes me think he decided to bring it all back just for completion sake.

It just feels like it could've been used better than how it was.

But it was still good to see it all.

Ideally they would have spent a few seasons building up to the return to Galifrey, as for me the whole point of the 50th ending was to set up the Doctor's path for the next 50 years,

I suppose they've reached a middle ground following the finale.

 

[hamchan]

The two episodes of Heaven Sent and Hell Bent contrasting each other is just so representative of how brilliant Moffat is at episodes that are super focused one-offs and how messy he is at doing the whole season arc thing.

 

[The Adder]

Man. I actually like ineffectual Rassilon.

He just all but lost a war with the Daleks

Enacted an insane plan and was thwarted by the Doctor and very likely killed by the Master.

As soon as he was back Gallifrey was sealed off in a pocket dimension for its own safety by the Doctor.

Then once they got out of that they scampered off to the end of the universe to hide.

The dude has taken a seemingly endless stream of Ls to the face. At this point he's just broken.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Loved the spoon reference, I am sure it was intentional. There was another spoon reference sometime this season, I forget when.

Clara is one heck of a Mary Sue, but if you buy into that and get past it, they do some interesting things with it at least.

Somebody mentioned whether she somehow knew about the Impossible Astronaut scene... I think the implication is that this Tardis isn't made to look like that, but *is* the diner in that scene.

I have mixed feelings but overall enjoyed it.

Oh, and I think that they have established the Doctor as half human for reals now. That's a big deal. And if that billion hearts thing is right, he was the hybrid.

 

[Quick Mustard]

Ideally they would have spent a few seasons building up to the return to Galifrey, as for me the whole point of the 50th ending was to set up the Doctor's path for the next 50 years,

I suppose they've reached a middle ground following the finale.

Yea, I can see that its not back entirely, but as you say, a nice build up with an episode here and there over the next 5 years with a huge reveal I think would've been better then using it as a weak plot device to save Clara.

Ah well, It will be interesting to see where they take it all next.

 

[ag-my001]

Somebody mentioned whether she somehow knew about the Impossible Astronaut scene... I think the implication is that this Tardis isn't made to look like that, but *is* the diner in that scene.

.

Nah, it was just modeled on it. The Doctor says "wasn't this diner on the other side of the hill?" when he remembers. Plus, Clara walks into Tardis heading into the back room, but that's where 11 came out of in Impossible Astronaut.

The chameleon circuit used the nearby structure to disguise itself.

 

[Blader]

So we're likely about 2/3rds of the way through the Capaldi era now. Favorites so far?

1. Listen
2. The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar
3. Mummy on the Orient Express
4. The Caretaker
5. Face the Raven / Heaven Sent / Hell Bent
6. Last Christmas
7. Dark Water / Death in Heaven
8. Flatline
9. The Zygon Inversion (a very strong part 2 that I have to divorce from its godawful part 1)
10. Into the Dalek


I was thinking about it, and it feels like there's been a pretty even split for me between the strong episodes and the mediocre/bad ones. Like, that was a pretty easy top 10 to come up with, but there would be no number 11.

 

[tonysidaway]

Todd VanDerWerff reviews series 9 in Vox:

http://www.vox.com/culture/2015/12/6/9856192/doctor-who-finale-recap-season-9

tl;dr what worked this time was use of two-parters and adherence to the logic of fairy tales.

While I disagree on detail, I've often advocated for this view of Doctor Who as a fairy tale. This is why Mary Sue characters are the norm and Donna was a rare exception.

 

[munchie64]

Loved it. Heck, loved the last three episodes. This plot ended up pretty damn good imo. Gallifrey was handled well.

 

[Chariot]

1. Mummy on the Orient Express
2. The Witch's Familiar
3. Dark Water
4. Heaven Sent
5. Time Heist
6. Flatline
7. The Magician's Apprentice
8. Into the Dalek

Gotta say, Capaldi is a good actor, but his stories didn't pull my strings. Smith is still my top dog, followed by Tennant.

 

[Freewheelin']

1. Heaven Sent
2. Listen
3. Flatline
4. Mummy on the Orient Express
5. The Caretaker
6. Dark Water
7. Kill The Moon
8. Into The Dalek
9. The Woman Who Lived
10. Last 10 mins of The Zygon Inversion

Enjoyed S8 a lot more than 9 overall

edit: forgot about Last Xmas. Would be in there around the middle.

 

[Blader]

Why does everyone expect Capaldi to be leaving so soon? I'd be expecting at least 4 series or 3 if there's a gap year of specials.

Tennant and Smith did three series over four years, so it feels like something of a precedent. Plus with Moffat looking at trying to leave and Capaldi not wanting to be tied into it for too long (his two-year deal expired so now he only re-ups for one year at a time; plus him wanting to take time off between now and the start of filming S10), it does kind of seem like we're on the back nine of his tenure.

I don't think next year will be a year of specials, either. Likely just the one Christmas special.

 

[-BLITZ-]

Beautiful episode I really thought that Clara is the one who lost her memories. So, this is the final of the actress Jenna Coleman ? That gives lot of questions regarding what Clara & Me were / are doing next and if Clara could a be named a Time World if her pulse is still OFF, undying person and if so, what new companion will be next.

 

[DrForester]

Beautiful episode I really thought that Clara is the one who lost her memories. So, this is the final of the actress Jenna Coleman ? That gives lot of questions regarding what Clara & Me were / are doing next and if Clara could a be named a Time World if her pulse is still OFF, undying person and if so, what new companion will be next.

I thought he was talking to one of the fractured Clara's but I never thought for a second that she was going to lose her memories. They were never going to do that exit for a companion again.

 

[Bluth54]

Tennant and Smith did three series over four years, so it feels like something of a precedent. Plus with Moffat looking at trying to leave and Capaldi not wanting to be tied into it for too long (his two-year deal expired so now he only re-ups for one year at a time; plus him wanting to take time off between now and the start of filming S10), it does kind of seem like we're on the back nine of his tenure.

I don't think next year will be a year of specials, either. Likely just the one Christmas special.

I don't think we can really say Capaldi will do 3 seasons just because Tennant ans Smith only did 3, Capaldi is a much older actor who is more likely much closer to retirement then Smith or Tennant. I would imagine Smith and Tennant didn't want to play the Doctor too long and risk getting typecast, but I doubt Capaldi considers that as much of an issue. He may decide to stay on much longer then 3 seasons...or maybe season10 will be his last. I think his age is a big wildcard in the length of his run.

 

[DrForester]

I will be so devastated when Capaldi leaves...

 

[iMax]

Doctor Who Christmas Special |OT| Cry Me A River

 

[Bluth54]

I will be so devastated when Capaldi leaves...

I do get sad when a Doctor leaves but I get excited as well since new actors really keep things fresh and exciting for me. Most long running shows that don't have changing casts start to feel stale to me towards the end of their runs, especially US network shows that have 22 episodes a season.

 

[M.Bluth]

I hope Capaldi sticks around for both S10 and 11

 

[DrForester]

I'd like to think Capaldi will follow in Baker's footsteps and stick around for years.

 

[tomtom94]

Given that Moffat is starting to make overtures that series 10 will be his last and we know Who is taking a year off next year, I think it's highly likely Capaldi and Moffat will exit together at the end of that series. It'll be Capaldi's fourth year in the role and it gives a new showrunner a chance to start fresh (maybe keeping the same companion to ease the transition).

 

[GulAtiCa]

I really liked that episode. I really thought the Clara in the diner was a fragment memory and he was trying to say goodbye in a way.

I liked that twist that he was the one who forget.

I also like that they cheated with Clara so she can essentially still be out there. But really like it that she still has to die and will have to die. So her death and it emotions aren't cheated.

 

[Blader]

I don't think we can really say Capaldi will do 3 seasons just because Tennant ans Smith only did 3, Capaldi is a much older actor who is more likely much closer to retirement then Smith or Tennant. I would imagine Smith and Tennant didn't want to play the Doctor too long and risk getting typecast, but I doubt Capaldi considers that as much of an issue. He may decide to stay on much longer then 3 seasons...or maybe season10 will be his last. I think his age is a big wildcard in the length of his run.

Well I don't necessarily mean Capaldi will only do three because his predecessors did three, but that are some shared reasons why actors who play the Doctor may only want to do it for 3-4 years -- one of the main ones being that it's a pretty exhausting job with a huge time commitment. I don't really know that Capaldi's age will be much of a factor (he's only in his 50s, and a lot of actors go on into their 70s and 80s) but he may also chafe at playing one role for too long like Tennant and Smith, and want to do some other work just to mix things up. Isn't that partly why S10 is getting such a late filming start, so Capaldi can do something else in between seasons?

 

[APZonerunner]

I think Moffat will go after 10. I don't think they'll have an era be an absolute cut off point again... I think the Doctor, the Companion or both will carry over.

If we assume the rumors are right and no episodes will broadcast next year, I can see this being the schedule: Christmas 2015. Spin-off series, 'Class'. Christmas 2016. Series 10. Moffat Leaves. Christmas 2017, by the new showrunner. Capaldi Leaves in that, the first episode of the new era, but the companion stays. New Doctor.

Well I don't necessarily mean Capaldi will only do three because his predecessors did three, but that are some shared reasons why actors who play the Doctor may only want to do it for 3-4 years -- one of the main ones being that it's a pretty exhausting job with a huge time commitment. I don't really know that Capaldi's age will be much of a factor (he's only in his 50s, and a lot of actors go on into their 70s and 80s) but he may also chafe at playing one role for too long like Tennant and Smith, and want to do some other work just to mix things up. Isn't that partly why S10 is getting such a late filming start, so Capaldi can do something else in between seasons?

The S10 late filming/break is so Moffat can focus down on Sherlock Series 4 and so Capaldi can go and do some directing (including of the next series of Veep in America), as before taking on this gruelling role he split acting and directing (for which he's won an Oscar!) around 50/50, but he hasn't done much (any?) since taking on the Doctor.

 

[TheJoRu]

Doctor Who Christmas Special |OT| Cry Me A River

This is a borderline unbeatable title.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Last 2 episodes were amazing. And a much better send off for Clara.

Love the new Diner Tardis and it's pilots, I would totally watch the spin off series.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Christmas Carol is still the best Christmas ep (and one of the best of the revival) hands down.

 

[BrokenFiction]

This last 3-episode arc was just spectacular. Now that's the way you end a series!

In the future, I'd like to go back to a multi-companion TARDIS. Sure we had Amy and Rory, but I think the show works best when multiple characters can act as foils for one another.

 

[Kurdel]

In the future, I'd like to go back to a multi-companion TARDIS. Sure we had Amy and Rory, but I think the show works best when multiple characters can act as foils for one another.

Same.

Season 8 had more invitations to travel on the TARDIS than any other season I can remember, I guess people will start saying yes in S10.

 

[8bit]

Well I don't necessarily mean Capaldi will only do three because his predecessors did three, but that are some shared reasons why actors who play the Doctor may only want to do it for 3-4 years -- one of the main ones being that it's a pretty exhausting job with a huge time commitment. I don't really know that Capaldi's age will be much of a factor (he's only in his 50s, and a lot of actors go on into their 70s and 80s) but he may also chafe at playing one role for too long like Tennant and Smith, and want to do some other work just to mix things up. Isn't that partly why S10 is getting such a late filming start, so Capaldi can do something else in between seasons?

Capaldi is a massive fan though, as long as he has the ability to do other things I'm fairly sure he'll stay in the role as long as he is having fun.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Doctor Who is taking a year off?

So when will season 10 air?

 

[Magwik]

Doctor Who is taking a year off?

So when will season 10 air?

Late 2016 or Early 2017

 

[Mariolee]

Doctor Who is taking a year off?

So when will season 10 air?

Never.

 

[munchie64]

Never.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Late 2016 or Early 2017

Source for this? Sorry, I'm just now hearing this, and I'm freaking out

 

[JonathanEx]

Just caught up.


Well that was certainly emotional.

 

[Vesmir]

Man. I actually like ineffectual Rassilon.

He just all but lost a war with the Daleks

Enacted an insane plan and was thwarted by the Doctor and very likely killed by the Master.

As soon as he was back Gallifrey was sealed off in a pocket dimension for its own safety by the Doctor.

Then once they got out of that they scampered off to the end of the universe to hide.

The dude has taken a seemingly endless stream of Ls to the face. At this point he's just broken.

This. I don't get how people would expect a powerful, booming Rassilon after all of that. It gives a bit of breathing room before he tries to restore the glory of the Time Lords.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

So is that the first time The Doctor shot and killed someone (yes he regened but still)?

 

[Kreuzader]

Just going to do a top 5 of the Capaldi era:

1. Heaven Sent
2. Mummy on the Orient Express
3. Flatline
4. Last Christmas
5. The Caretaker

 

[Kreuzader]

So is that the first time The Doctor shot and killed someone (yes he regened but still)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNuHV-iLBRw

 

[TyrantII]

It was a vague fucking prophecy the stuffy, feckless Time Lords overreacted over. And yes, it almost came true - the Hybrid of the Doctor and Clara almost destroyed the universe simply by how addicted they were to each others' company.

The running theme of the series has been how utterly unhealthy the Doctor and Clara's relationship has been. That was the season long tease - the tease of the Hybrid was just a buzzword. And if it had turned out to be just a monster, it would have been fucking DULL. Same for if it had been Ashildr.

Bad Wolf was Rose and no-one seemed to mind that.

Sort of puts last season and Danny Pink in context, although I think they utterly failed at actually executing it in a meaningfully way.

 

[Chariot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNuHV-iLBRw

Somebody call the Who-Ten Clan.

 

[Beaniedude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNuHV-iLBRw

God damn it you beat me to it.
It is so delightfully amazing.