Series 7 severly lacked the truly high points, and I think this season does too (though I personally think the quality is higher now than in series 7), but series 8 had some really great moments and episodes. I think Listen, Mummy On The Orient Express and Dark Water rank very high if listing the best Doctor Who-episodes since 2005 (Flatline is also great, albeit not quite as good as those other three). Dark Water in particular I thought was the most chilling and well-acted (apart from Samuel Anderson as Danny, though it's definitely his best appearance) episode the show's had.
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
- Thread starter Quick
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Series 7 severly lacked the truly high points, and I think this season does too (though I personally think the quality is higher now than in series 7), but series 8 had some really great moments and episodes. I think Listen, Mummy On The Orient Express and Dark Water rank very high if listing the best Doctor Who-episodes since 2005 (Flatline is also great, albeit not quite as good as those other three). Dark Water in particular I thought was the most chilling and well-acted (apart from Samuel Anderson as Danny, though it's definitely his best appearance) episode the show's had.
Enjoyed both, but they were no Blink.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I liked evil Clara. The rest was pretty bad. Definitely my least favourite episode of the series. The stand-off with the soldiers and the Zygons was cringeworthy as hell. Not good.
Didn't really care for this episode, but I wasn't really expecting to either tbh. I've never liked UNIT or Kate Stewart (I hope in vain that she's actually dead), and the Zygons plot was a huge drag on the 50th special for me so I wasn't exactly looking forward to its follow-up here.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I really liked Sontaran Strategem, just because it finally demonstrated that no, UNIT is not a bunch of entirely useless goobers if they're allowed to just do their thing.
BrokenFiction
Member
They need to bring back Torchwood and Captain Jack. They would get shit done.
CrimsonFist
Member
Not sure I'd call Jack's Torchwood competent either tbh.
S1 had a budget of around £1 million per ep if I recall, will get source later
WadiumArcadium
Member
They were pretty competent at fucking each other.
BrokenFiction
Member
No strong feelings either way about this one. I liked the look of some scenes. Thought it was ok overall, but the writing was quite disjointed. I agree that the relationship of the Doctor with UNIT felt off.
I have to say, the Zygons are the most unconvincing alien race looks-wise for me in Doctor Who, and that's saying something. It always takes me out of the scene when there's one around, no matter how much they try to make it work.
I have to say, the Zygons are the most unconvincing alien race looks-wise for me in Doctor Who, and that's saying something. It always takes me out of the scene when there's one around, no matter how much they try to make it work.
Jesus Christ, this episode was awful. First episode in the season that I feel that way. They snuck some nice references here and there, but aside from those, it was just terrible all around. I can't even articulate properly as to why I hated it so much. Almost stopped watching it, like, 10 times.
The scene with the soldiers, goddamn.
The scene with the soldiers, goddamn.
Did they/are they going to address that Kate had a Zygon double as well? Or did the Kate Zygon realize she was a Zygon and is the one who started this whole revolution and that's why this Kate we're with now is so hellbent on destroying all the Zygons, because they finally realized who was who.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Maybe?
I also thought the size of the Zygon populace allowed to assimilate was kinda huge. 20 million of them? I didn't mishear that, right?
WadiumArcadium
Member
No, you're right. It was 20 million.
CrimsonFist
Member
So if the old Zygon Kate is still around, then we now have two Zygon Kates.
I just assumed that the Kate we've been following is the Zygon one; seeing as she had all the details on the Zygon settlement operation. Figured the Human one would show up in Part 2.
JimtotheHum
Member
Definitely a weak episode. I do like evil Clara, she seems even more attractive as a bad guy, if that's possible. Really liked the last four episodes, so this is a downer.
Red Arremer
Member
What even was the purpose of the UNIT leader woman going to that New Mexican town, all on her own?
Something something secret, something something covert
I'm more curious why she went into a possible battle zone wearing high heels, but hey
This feels like such a big RTD episode.
Anyway, did not enjoy the episode much. It's incredibly stupid how events unfolded.
The scene in front of the church between the UNIT soldiers and the Zygons in disguise really takes the cake at being stupid.
I initially thought they were going to play it off like the supposed Zygons at the church were actually humans, and it just so happened that it has one of the soldiers' mothers in there.
But no, they just kept going with it. Plainly obvious these are Zygons, they still drop their weapons and willingly walk into a trap. It was playing off emotions, and the question of "can you shoot your own mother?" but it was absolutely ridiculous when, after the soldier's method of testing the Zygon failed, they just fucking walked into the church. They couldn't have just backed off instead.
That being said, Evil Clara was a neat twist. I kind of figured she'd have gotten swapped out when she went inside the kid's apartment by herself. When she commented on Jac being "middle aged", it felt like something was off, since Clara isn't generally so blunt.
Anyway, did not enjoy the episode much. It's incredibly stupid how events unfolded.
The scene in front of the church between the UNIT soldiers and the Zygons in disguise really takes the cake at being stupid.
I initially thought they were going to play it off like the supposed Zygons at the church were actually humans, and it just so happened that it has one of the soldiers' mothers in there.
But no, they just kept going with it. Plainly obvious these are Zygons, they still drop their weapons and willingly walk into a trap. It was playing off emotions, and the question of "can you shoot your own mother?" but it was absolutely ridiculous when, after the soldier's method of testing the Zygon failed, they just fucking walked into the church. They couldn't have just backed off instead.
That being said, Evil Clara was a neat twist. I kind of figured she'd have gotten swapped out when she went inside the kid's apartment by herself. When she commented on Jac being "middle aged", it felt like something was off, since Clara isn't generally so blunt.
She went there to investigate. New Mexico was where Osgood was, and got captured. Presumably this is where the Zygon "revolution" began. She went there alone because it was secret, secret.
Theory:
She already suspected that the woman she met there was a Zygon, and took it out after it revealed itself. We never actually saw her getting "zapped", and never saw a body on the ground. Zygons' gonna be tricked.
Concerning Truth and Consequences and Kate being there, I thought what the Zygon Sheriff said was quite interesting, that the reason for the uprising is because a child Zygon couldn't control its shapeshifting power yet, some humans saw it change back for a moment and that started a huge Zygon vs Human conflict.
Is that what broke the peace?
Is that what broke the peace?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yeah, they have another plane...?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Freewheelin'
Member
This was pretty bad
That's what made it so bad. The soldier obviously knew at the start.
"You're obviously not my mother you're a Zygon"
*asks two easy questions, Zygon fails to answer either*
"Welp, I'm convinced. Let's walk into the obvious trap"
infiniteloop
Member
first interesting episode this season
Melchettsmoustache
Member
It was a pretty poor episode.... It wasn't helped by the fact that I keep remembering the squad leader in her role as drinks rep in Time Gentlemen Please...
Didn't you see? She died in this episode.
Third times the charm!
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
It was an okay episode imo, except for the church part, that really was one of the worst scenes from Who I have seen.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I've been rewatching Who recently and the funny thing I found is that while I like Davis' later episodes (Series2 staring with The Impossible Planet, 3, 4, and the Specials), I very much prefer Moffat's earlier episodes (Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, most of Season 5, and I'm warming up to Season 6). Season 7 was very "eh" and I have, for the life of me, not been able to get into Capaldi's Doctor (though Missy has been absolutely brilliant and I loved Danny calling the Doctor on some of his bullshit).
Wouldn't it be a cruel twist - and a really evil way to mix it up - if Clara actually was dead? Like, that's it, she's gone for good. We weren't expecting a Clara Zygon - or at least not expecting her to be perma-killed in the name of having a Clara Zygon - so it really would be an utter shock to the system if she is legit dead. Seems like a thing Moffat would do. Hm.
Quick Mustard
Member
Doctor Who to contine for at least 5 more years.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a676756/doctor-who-will-run-for-at-least-5-more-years-says-steven-moffat-and-peter-capaldi-is-going-nowhere.html#~psPjOOKeDXYIBE
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a676756/doctor-who-will-run-for-at-least-5-more-years-says-steven-moffat-and-peter-capaldi-is-going-nowhere.html#~psPjOOKeDXYIBE
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
"Real Clara" is dead, and now the Doctor has to decide what to do with evil sexy Zygon Clara. Does he kill her, and finally erase Clara for good, or let her live and just accept that it's the closest thing to a companion he can have? I think it would be interesting, but it's obviously not what they're going to do.
Did anyone really think it was going anywhere? Glad Capaldi's here for a bit longer though.
Seen the business plan? Do they mean merchandising and Spinoff and Big Finish stuff? Or is the plan for the series proper more complicated than just 'do a series a year.' Cus I'm getting annoyed at all the moving around.
Let's hope not.
You say this in context of an episode whereby we find the dramatically and quickly killed Osgood from last year is back...kinda....sorta...because of reasons.
Thats definitely a Moffat thing to do.
APZonerunner
Member
"I've seen the business plan" is a bollocks quote, as with a company like the BBC you just never know. RTD was saying shit like this during Series 2, saying the show was indestructible, but then during Series 3 it came dangerously close to being cancelled once RTD left, he had to fight for them to do the showrunner switch thing, as for a good time the BBC plan was to wind it off when RTD was done - that's how fast things can change back and forth.
It's good that he's confident, though! And I think if the rumours are true and there's a whole lot less Who next year it'll actually do the show good.
It's good that he's confident, though! And I think if the rumours are true and there's a whole lot less Who next year it'll actually do the show good.
Exterminieren
Banned
I think that the church scene was easily the best of the episode, and a damned good candidate of best of the series so far.
It was dirty, psychological warfare against soldiers who weren't trained for it. Moaning that the soldiers aren't acting logically is rather missing the point.
If this had been a Torchwood episode (and, frankly, it wasn't far away at times) the soldier would have shot his mum only to find that she was telling the truth.
In fairness, from what I hear the contracts to include Doctor Who in the massive theme park they're building in Kent for 2020 are signed, sealed and sorted. There'd be enormous kickback if Who was cancelled between now and then.
It was dirty, psychological warfare against soldiers who weren't trained for it. Moaning that the soldiers aren't acting logically is rather missing the point.
If this had been a Torchwood episode (and, frankly, it wasn't far away at times) the soldier would have shot his mum only to find that she was telling the truth.
In fairness, from what I hear the contracts to include Doctor Who in the massive theme park they're building in Kent for 2020 are signed, sealed and sorted. There'd be enormous kickback if Who was cancelled between now and then.