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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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The other half of the series is next year.
Well I hope I'll find that half more enjoyable...
He only materialises nearby to give her the sound, accounting for that odd never-quite-explained Tardis noise back in The Eleventh Hour, and that in turn keeps her believing in him until his reappearance with policewoman Amy in that same episode. That's the 'story' he tells her.
At least, that's my rationalisation.
Amy's pretty specific about what he should do, which probably means she remembers it. She didn't say "buzz me with the tardis", she says "tell me stories about what I'll do and let me know what I'm waiting for."
Ironically, I think that probably makes the wait worse. But it's got that fairytale quality that Moffat likes so much.
"Everybody knows that everybody dies."
JoshuaJSlone
Member
You can rewrite the future, unless you've already seen how it turns out in which case it's fixed for you. Unless that future includes Rory and Amy waving to themselves in The Hungry Earth a few years from now. Though there are definitely plenty of handwavy ways around that.
EDIT Correction: I forgot their wedding was in 2010. So if that was their 10th anniversary party we saw, they did make it to 2020.
Thinking about how the Statue of Liberty could go unseen, the old excuse of "perception filter" came to mind, but if that technology worked well for the angels they'd have the run of a lot more than one building.
EDIT Correction: I forgot their wedding was in 2010. So if that was their 10th anniversary party we saw, they did make it to 2020.
Thinking about how the Statue of Liberty could go unseen, the old excuse of "perception filter" came to mind, but if that technology worked well for the angels they'd have the run of a lot more than one building.
I didn't really like the reality-hitting part of that. They'd read so little that even if he was forced into a situation of breaking something and blaming Amy's reading on it, he could've interpreted that any number of ways. "Why do I have to break River's wrist? Because Amy said I'd break it." "Why do I have to break the angel? Because Amy said I'd break it." "Why do I have to break wind? Because Amy said I'd break it."mclem said:
It will be big. These three are confirmed to be in it:
http://matthewashton.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/madame_vastra.jpg
http://botisrpg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/strax.jpg
Rubbish King
The gift that keeps on giving
Wicked episode, cant wait for Jenna <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
He knows her voice.
APZonerunner
Member
This makes me even sadder than him sometimes displaying a reckless lack of taste, though. I love to compare and contrast the two different approaches and styles, but it's all Doctor Who and the approaches are just different - and not even that different.
It bums me out when I hear others talking like they love one era and hate the other. I can understand liking one more, infinitely more, but the implication here - that he's mental for liking or preferring that era - really bums me out.
I think the thing is just that everyone else got to keep everything they got. Rose regained her dad, had Mickey, her mom and in the parallel universe used her new-found knowledge to work for their version of Torchwood. That's established even around Doomsday (though we get some of the 'fruits' of that in dimension hopping in series 4, I suppose.)
It may have been undone, but Martha lived the most painful years anyone could, her family tortured and abused - and only they can remember it. She and the rest of them can't share that with anyone. But, again, she walks away from the Doctor with her pride, and continues his good work in her own little way.
Sarah Jane was just dropped off, left, thinking he was coming back, and he never did. Devastating, but years later we catch up and, behold, she too is doing the good work. Jo Grant stands up to the Doctor, fights him, and leaves of her own volition. Years later we find out she travelled the world, carrying his spirit not by fighting aliens, but by helping Earth's most needy.
Amy and Rory may have gone, but Moffat's set up is clever, I think. It's heartbreaking but they're in one of the most exciting places in the world during one of the most exciting periods of time. We may have to get clarification but the implication is without the 'farm' to sustain it the apartments won't exist, right? I like to think they got sent back, but not to the farm. Just back, like the people in Blink did. They clearly aren't trapped in the apartment - River sends the book and Amy gets it published. Through that the pair can make money, and use knowledge of the future to get rich. And, some day... they probably will be out there in New York doing something he'd be proud of, like the others did. I really think it's an ending as sweet as it is bitter.
What's heartbreaking about Donna, I think, is that she just loses everything personal. Donna wasn't a very nice character at the start of The Runaway Bride, and she's the companion more than any other who changed in a personality sense thanks to The Doctor. The whole thing that's worse about what happens to her is thanks to her new-found knowledge she knows exactly what is coming. The line when she admits she knows why it's happening -- "Because there can't be," -- is heartbreaking.
That's followed by Wilf straight up admitting she was better with him, and the only time really The Doctor has 'stood up' to a parent. Even when in his final goodbyes he goes back and makes her a millionaire, it's a sort of empty, sad gesture -- because she's not his Donna, not our Donna, not the better Donna. That person is as good as dead, worse, replaced by somebody a million times more vapid and uninteresting. And that's gutting.
Yeah, their first sacrifice was still meaningful as that created the paradox that destroyed the apartments and the farm. So they were sent back to lead a normal, happy life.
UnblessedSoul
Member
Just saw the angel episode, wow that was so bad, Rory and Amys send off was pathetic, I felt no connection at all, very poor, it's like they got brushed under the carpet and forgotten about, I really liked Amy as well, such a shame.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
yup
UnblessedSoul
Member
They could of just walked into the tardis and it would of been just like any other episode, but the whole hey derp look at this tombstone oh noes I vanished, then amy suiciding as well left a bitter taste in my mouth they deserved much more then that. 0/10
What on earth is the point of posting gtfo gifs for expressing an opinion?
Don't give me flashbacks to the MGS4 OT.
Spotless Mind
Member
Thought it was brilliant. I didn't think there was the slightest possibility of me shedding tears at their goodbye, but holy crap did Karen Gillan nail her final scene. ;_;
I'm pretty depressed because it's now clear that this series just isn't working for me. I'm not sure if in between series 6 and 7 my standards have raised or if I'm just getting sick of Smith/Rory/Amy/Moffat/Riversong or what.
I kinda got the impression that this send off was supposed to be a big deal, but as I was watching it I felt nothing much at all. Anticlimactic all round.
All the Husband! Husband! Marriage! Weddings! got on my nerves as well. Is Moffat a newly-wed or something?
I've given up on trying to understand River Song. Her relationship with everyone has gotten too confusing for its own good.
It was alright I guess.
I kinda got the impression that this send off was supposed to be a big deal, but as I was watching it I felt nothing much at all. Anticlimactic all round.
All the Husband! Husband! Marriage! Weddings! got on my nerves as well. Is Moffat a newly-wed or something?
I've given up on trying to understand River Song. Her relationship with everyone has gotten too confusing for its own good.
It was alright I guess.
Their timeline is a fixed point now. He cant change that by visiting them.
Why can't the Doctor just turn up and say howdy, without bringing them out of the timeline, still letting them die at the age of 80 something in 1993.
Anyways i'm sad that Rory didn't even get to say goodbye properly and Amy's lasted like a minute. I'm sad that it was just some random angel that zapped them, an angel that somehow survived the time paradox. I'm sad that random wibbly wobbly time logic was added this ep to make it seem more tragic. I'm sad that the Ponds are gone.
Anyways i'm sad that Rory didn't even get to say goodbye properly and Amy's lasted like a minute. I'm sad that it was just some random angel that zapped them, an angel that somehow survived the time paradox. I'm sad that random wibbly wobbly time logic was added this ep to make it seem more tragic. I'm sad that the Ponds are gone.
I guess that because the angel would send Amy back to the same time, she could have spent 5 minutes saying goodbye.
Yep should have left them at that.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Asylum: A
Really good story, and having the new companion introduced early was a clever tease. Love the Doctor database wipe.
Dinosaurs: A
Just a whole lot of fun.
Mercy: C
It was a good story, but there have been far better "mass murderer mystery" episodes in Sci-Fi. "Duet" in DS9 came to mind instantly.
Three: A/D
I can't give an average for this episode, the two parts just don't go together. The character part was fantastic, the alien of the week mystery was terrible, and should have just been cut. You're trying to show their real live vs. Doctor life, don't put an alien mystery in their real life.
Angels: B
Fantastic episode, and great send off to the Ponds. Knocked down for the stupid, and pointless, Statue of Liberty Angel, and the silly fake out ending that I thought ruined the moment a bit (thankfully the moment was so good as to almost overcome it).
Really good story, and having the new companion introduced early was a clever tease. Love the Doctor database wipe.
Dinosaurs: A
Just a whole lot of fun.
Mercy: C
It was a good story, but there have been far better "mass murderer mystery" episodes in Sci-Fi. "Duet" in DS9 came to mind instantly.
Three: A/D
I can't give an average for this episode, the two parts just don't go together. The character part was fantastic, the alien of the week mystery was terrible, and should have just been cut. You're trying to show their real live vs. Doctor life, don't put an alien mystery in their real life.
Angels: B
Fantastic episode, and great send off to the Ponds. Knocked down for the stupid, and pointless, Statue of Liberty Angel, and the silly fake out ending that I thought ruined the moment a bit (thankfully the moment was so good as to almost overcome it).
I think part of the reason that was so good was that it was a bit of a surprise, while we all knew this was coming since the series started. The raised expectations didn't help some peoples perception of this episode.
Now for the ratings:
AotD: A. Best opener, apart from The Eleventh Hour, and a great into to our new companion.
DoaS: B. Nice little fun trip with a good villian.
ATcM: C. First half was great, second half fell a little flat IMO.
PoT: C. It was great apart from the end, which really dragged it down a bit.
AtM: A. Great farewell for the Pond's, and it helped make the Angel's into an actual threat again.
Overall, it's been a great half season, can't wait for the next one to begin.
Guilty, probably.
bengraven
Member
Yeah. The Baker serials had three different show runners and three very different feels to it. It started with gothic horror (Hinchcliffe), then moved to extreme silliness (Douglas Adams), and then sort of met somewhere in between with a more serious feel (JNT)
Hinchcliffe was the show runner for the gothic horror era of Baker's run, with Robert Holmes as the script editor - Talons of Weng-Chiang, Pyramids of Mars, Deadly Assassin, Ark In Space, etc. Holmes is unarguably the best classic Who writer, responsible for the listed four episodes as well as The Caves of Androzani and a bunch of other classics spreading from the second Doctor to the sixth. (Although I'm also partial to Adams' time during Baker's run, and what Cartmel was starting to do with the seventh Doctor, Holmes basically invented Doctor Who's mythology).
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era is the greatest period in the show's history. There will probably never be another writer on par with Robert Holmes who works on the show again. I'm very fond of RTD's era, what JNT was doing (particularly with Saward), and the Lambert/Whitaker stuff at the very start, but Holmes and Hinchcliffe is Doctor Who at its peak.
Yea, it felt forced. "Hey we need them go never come back for things to move on, let's have them die even though it isn't necessary and we can't figure out something a little cooler."
Agreed. Sending them off in some epic, tragic way would've probably been much better in a two-parter.
I didn't like this series at all for some reason. Amy and Rory seemed totally secondary throughout most episodes, only dropping in for a nice scene once or twice. Too many purely standalone episodes, no strong through-line connecting the half-season. They kept restating that Amy and Rory really love each other but I feel this is just an emotional repeat of all their major events over the course of the show. They kept sacrificing their lives over and over and to have them go out doing it YET AGAIN felt kind of pointless. They even did it twice in the same episode. It was just too much.
They set up them thinking about leaving and just living a regular life so well with that anniversary episode, they should've just went with that.
I loved the shit out of series 5 and 6 after being extremely skeptical after Tennant left in series 4 and even ignoring the show until series 6 was over but man ... series 7 really disappointed me so far. Too little to do for Amy and Rory and then a weird send-off that while incredibly sad did nothing particularly new.
Still, I ended up like this regardless:
... thinking about this one also didn't help much...
![tumblr_mb4meq8Auq1qfe7z2o1_500.jpg](http://[quote="Jintor, post: 42687967"][IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb4meq8Auq1qfe7z2o1_500.jpg)
See SophiaBushCryingButStillGorgeous.gif for reaction
There was one incredibly awesome moment, though. I loved Karen's line reading of: "I won't let them take him, that's what we got!" - brilliant!
Definitely.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Asylum: B
Nicely creepy, well written and a fantastic introduction to Oswin. The main problem is that I just don't feel it went far enough with the idea of "insane Daleks", they were mostly background. And the divorce subplot was stupid.
Dinosaurs: A
I don't know why but I really like this episode. And that's coming from someone who fully expected to hate it. I rolled my eyes at every preview material. But something about it just clicked with me, its the kind of stories I like seeing from Doctor Who. The Doctor's brutal side coming out was just icing on the cake.
Town Called Mercy: B
This one is carried entirely on the Doctors relationship with the doctor. The actual plot is kinda stupid, it loses steam after the sheriff dies, but the way that the doctor gets under his skin was really good.
Power of Three: A+/F
Agree with what DrForester said, this one just can't be given a single grade. I loved everything in the first two thirds. The cubes are nicely mysterious, even when they're activating. The character development with Amy and Rory is quite honestly the best they've ever gotten. And then as soon as they go aboard the alien ship everything crashes, ending with that horrible "cubed is the power of three line"
Angels take Manhattan: B/D
Same thing. Decent episode, nicely creepy, I love the idea of the angel farm, not the greatest ep but its fun and gets some nice time travel implications in. And then the fake-out. Stupid. Dumb dumb dumb. If you're going to write the send-off for two beloved characters take the time, put the script through a few rewrites, and find a way to avoid the very clearly "shit we wrote ourselves into a corner" moment in the graveyard.
Nicely creepy, well written and a fantastic introduction to Oswin. The main problem is that I just don't feel it went far enough with the idea of "insane Daleks", they were mostly background. And the divorce subplot was stupid.
Dinosaurs: A
I don't know why but I really like this episode. And that's coming from someone who fully expected to hate it. I rolled my eyes at every preview material. But something about it just clicked with me, its the kind of stories I like seeing from Doctor Who. The Doctor's brutal side coming out was just icing on the cake.
Town Called Mercy: B
This one is carried entirely on the Doctors relationship with the doctor. The actual plot is kinda stupid, it loses steam after the sheriff dies, but the way that the doctor gets under his skin was really good.
Power of Three: A+/F
Agree with what DrForester said, this one just can't be given a single grade. I loved everything in the first two thirds. The cubes are nicely mysterious, even when they're activating. The character development with Amy and Rory is quite honestly the best they've ever gotten. And then as soon as they go aboard the alien ship everything crashes, ending with that horrible "cubed is the power of three line"
Angels take Manhattan: B/D
Same thing. Decent episode, nicely creepy, I love the idea of the angel farm, not the greatest ep but its fun and gets some nice time travel implications in. And then the fake-out. Stupid. Dumb dumb dumb. If you're going to write the send-off for two beloved characters take the time, put the script through a few rewrites, and find a way to avoid the very clearly "shit we wrote ourselves into a corner" moment in the graveyard.
Really liked that last episode, you can really tell the quality of Stephen Moffats writing apart from the others. The dinosaur and power of three episodes were probably the worst episodes I've seen of Doctor Who - real rookie writing that didn't know how to tell a decent story, nor how to end them.
I had a great idea about how they could have left off on a cliffhanger.
Imagine the pullback in the graveyard after seeing Rory and Amy's gravestone pulling back to reveal the stones no one has looked at...which contain the names of all of the Doctors companions...eventually leading to a stone that said "The Doctor - Doctor Who?"...and then fadeout as we see/hear the TARDIS leaving in the background so we know the Doctor has left already without finding out about the other names...
Imagine the pullback in the graveyard after seeing Rory and Amy's gravestone pulling back to reveal the stones no one has looked at...which contain the names of all of the Doctors companions...eventually leading to a stone that said "The Doctor - Doctor Who?"...and then fadeout as we see/hear the TARDIS leaving in the background so we know the Doctor has left already without finding out about the other names...
piratepwnsninja
Member
I'm still not seeing why it's "cheap." As soon as Rory stopped to read the grave, I went, "Oh no." because the episode established the whole "Once you've read it, it can't be undone."
In addition to this, there is nothing stupid about Amy doing what she did either. It showed that she had grown up and was really able to let go of the Doctor for Rory, even if that meant letting go of the Doctor forever.
By the way, asking, "Well why doesn't the Doctor just..." is the best way ever to not like the show. Because if you really wanted to, you could do that every episode based on things that have been done in the past.
In addition to this, there is nothing stupid about Amy doing what she did either. It showed that she had grown up and was really able to let go of the Doctor for Rory, even if that meant letting go of the Doctor forever.
By the way, asking, "Well why doesn't the Doctor just..." is the best way ever to not like the show. Because if you really wanted to, you could do that every episode based on things that have been done in the past.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Once Rory is gone then the scene is fine. But the random "angel out of nowhere, straggling survivor, waiting here for Rory" whatever just felt lazy.
Hot Coldman
Banned
They're all As for me. Except TPo3, that ending is too bad. I enjoyed ATCM a lot more on rewatch.
Although it would've been cool, there's no real logical way to follow that up since we've had companions die before and they most definitely were not anywhere near New York.
Let's think about the logistics of them leaving though: what about their house and all of their friends? We've already discussed how Rory's dad might act, but there are so many other factors to a couple just up and gone. There's no way they'd go unnoticed.
Edit: Oops, double post.
Edit: Oops, double post.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
i feel like moffat's quality is going downhill the longer he's on who, honestly.
Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey
Someone going back through time using the timescoop again! =p
King of the Potato People
Member
The last episode I really didn't enjoy was Closing Time.
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