Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Imaginationland was topical. Hell the first episode ends with the admission that terrorists have attacked our imagination.
Does anyone else feel like South Park was better when it was less topical?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
- Status
South Park is absolutely satirical, especially with it's latest seasons. It's fairly blatant.
Also maybe the people who didn't like the last season just thought it was bad, instead of them being SJW liberal crybabies as you claim.
MrSaturn99
Member
Not particularly? It's as funny as it's always been.
Adam_Vania
Banned
it proves that South Park know how to exploit something to seem edgy and provocative. it proves that they can do their job, the same thing they've been doing for 20 years.
no new point is being made. no new perspective is being brought here. it proves they are getting lazy. what's more it was like they picked an angle and just didn't develop it at all. last year there were many scandals involving frats, yet none of that was used as fodder for satire. they just started w PC Police and did that over and over and over again. the humor is stagnating.
the sad thing about the "both sides are dumb!" thing is that, well, we are still having to spend entire episodes -- and now entire seasons -- going over this point again and again and again. it's old, it's tired.
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
And Go God Go was all about the Nintendo Wii. SP has always been topical, always. OP needs to go eat some member berries.
Yeah that's basically what I'm saying as well. I liked it when you'd have episodes that maybe poked fun at a few topical things while still telling a wholly original story that didn't completely revolve around current events. The satire has become a little too heavy-handed for my liking, even though I still find the show to be funny on average.
Here's the difference. The beginning of the first episode of that multi-part series was about Cartman not being able to wait for the Wii's release. What transpires over the course of the other 90% of the runtime of those episodes is completely fanciful and not topical whatsoever. It's about otters in the future and shit. It's playful, creative, and shows more restraint with its satire of current events.
I guess you're right when you say there hasn't really been that many great pieces of American satire over the years, so by that metric South Park is up there by simply being coherent and half decent. But when compared to shows like The Thick Of It, The Day Today, and Brass Eye? Not even close.
South Park has always been topical. Even in season 1, you had plots around plastic surgery, euthanasia, starving Ethiopians (with Sally Struthers), homosexuality, and keeping religion out of the holidays, all hot topics in the 90s. Hell, the second episode of the series was inspired by Dante's Peak/Volcano, movies that came out the same year South Park's "Volcano" episode aired.
I think it's less that South Park has gotten "worse" or "less subtle" with its pop culture digs because they certainly haven't. They're as blatant as they've always been. I think people just don't like the subjects that they're covering now.
Hell, I can't believe people thought last season was purely them "whining" about PC culture, despite the fact that Cartman has always embodied opinions of extreme prejudice, racism, ignorance, and intolerance. Cartman gets the shit beaten out of him nearly every season, but PC Principal is essentially the hero of season 19.
I think it's less that South Park has gotten "worse" or "less subtle" with its pop culture digs because they certainly haven't. They're as blatant as they've always been. I think people just don't like the subjects that they're covering now.
Hell, I can't believe people thought last season was purely them "whining" about PC culture, despite the fact that Cartman has always embodied opinions of extreme prejudice, racism, ignorance, and intolerance. Cartman gets the shit beaten out of him nearly every season, but PC Principal is essentially the hero of season 19.
The whining about modern South Park being politically centrist is laughable to me. The show is just taking the piss out of both extremes.
I consider myself extremely left wing but I still find jokes about it funny. You can't just expect them to mock the right wing. When you're whining about this you're basically admitting you can't take a joke at your own expense which is an awful character trait.
Pretty much everything is fair game in comedy.
I consider myself extremely left wing but I still find jokes about it funny. You can't just expect them to mock the right wing. When you're whining about this you're basically admitting you can't take a joke at your own expense which is an awful character trait.
Pretty much everything is fair game in comedy.
Taking all criticism as offence and calling everyone who disagrees with you a crybaby are also pretty shitty character traits to have.
South Park fans, this may seem crazy, but this show isn't the be all and end all of political humour. Other shows exist. People can have different senses of humour. You don't have to lash out at everybody who disagrees with you and personally attack them. Christ.
TDLink
Member
South Park has pretty much always been topical. It's just that some of those topical episodes are only funny in the moment/you had to be there, while others transcend that and are pretty much timelessly funny. Stuff like the Warcraft episode is a good example of this.
Occasionally you do have something like Imaginationland which isn't taking a specific current event or pop culture thing and just being a crazy story on its own. And those are almost always fantastic, but they're never the majority of the season. Just a couple eps (or a two/three parter). And keep in mind even those stories almost always still contain numerous pop culture references. Go God Go absolutely -was- a topical episode (about the anticipation for the Wii) and it just so happened to also be one of these crazy multi-parter stories.
At its core the show is always about current event and pop culture. That is what sustains it and keeps it going.
I don't think the show has faltered at all. Last season (and this one) are just trying something new with much more serialized seasons. My feelings are a bit mixed on -that- compared to wholly episodic (multi-parters aside) stories, but after 18 seasons I didn't and still don't see the problem with them experimenting with the formula. Season 19 was still pretty damn funny despite the seriality and I am sure this season will be good too.
Occasionally you do have something like Imaginationland which isn't taking a specific current event or pop culture thing and just being a crazy story on its own. And those are almost always fantastic, but they're never the majority of the season. Just a couple eps (or a two/three parter). And keep in mind even those stories almost always still contain numerous pop culture references. Go God Go absolutely -was- a topical episode (about the anticipation for the Wii) and it just so happened to also be one of these crazy multi-parter stories.
At its core the show is always about current event and pop culture. That is what sustains it and keeps it going.
I don't think the show has faltered at all. Last season (and this one) are just trying something new with much more serialized seasons. My feelings are a bit mixed on -that- compared to wholly episodic (multi-parters aside) stories, but after 18 seasons I didn't and still don't see the problem with them experimenting with the formula. Season 19 was still pretty damn funny despite the seriality and I am sure this season will be good too.
CopperPuppy
Member
Clicked the OP and became immediately confused at the implication that Imaginationland and Go God Go somehow aren't topical.
Imaginationland particularly is one of SP's most prominent pieces of post-9/11 commentary. Go God Go is the show's foremost discussion of the intersection of science and religion, kicked off by satirizing the Wii phenomenon.
In short: South Park has always been topical, and the two episodes referenced by the OP as reflective of its "better days" are two of the most topical (multipart) episodes I can think of.
Imaginationland particularly is one of SP's most prominent pieces of post-9/11 commentary. Go God Go is the show's foremost discussion of the intersection of science and religion, kicked off by satirizing the Wii phenomenon.
In short: South Park has always been topical, and the two episodes referenced by the OP as reflective of its "better days" are two of the most topical (multipart) episodes I can think of.
It has the Wii in it, but the actual episode is barely about the Wii.
I dunno. When it's good, South Park is one of those things that I often disagree with politically, but I think it's pretty funny.
Sometimes they make me cringe when they go into misguided Libertarian territory and their political commentary gets a little exhausting.
Still, I actually like that the show doesn't match my POV, so -- good question -- but nooooooooooo
Sometimes they make me cringe when they go into misguided Libertarian territory and their political commentary gets a little exhausting.
Still, I actually like that the show doesn't match my POV, so -- good question -- but nooooooooooo
The problem is that when you try and take the piss out of both sides and equivocate them, you just end up advocating for whichever side is for the status quo.
TDLink
Member
I wouldn't say it's barely about it. Especially the first episode. It's pretty prominent.
Even past the Wii though, the science vs religion debate which was the core of that story was still a very topical thing.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Hilarious, this thread, what member berries represent. Fucking gold. Matt and Trey are geniuses.
Member when South Park only made fun of stuff I didn't like?!!?
I am not sure what is/was more delicious, the salt towards South Park from the Right Wing during their run of power, or the salt from the Left Wing now. Neither side can take a joke apparently.
Member when South Park only made fun of stuff I didn't like?!!?
I am not sure what is/was more delicious, the salt towards South Park from the Right Wing during their run of power, or the salt from the Left Wing now. Neither side can take a joke apparently.
Umm if that's your jam cool. I think it's lazy
Old Gimlet Eyes
Member
It also has a ton of Richard Dawkins, making it very topical.
Spieler Eins
Member
It was always topical, but for a long time you didn't need to get the references to understand an episode and the plots were way wackier.
I guess it's better than the first drop in quality, when half their content was poor parodies of the latest movie teens liked. ,,Twilight episode!" ,,Highschool Musical episode" ,,Cloverfield episode!"
I guess it's better than the first drop in quality, when half their content was poor parodies of the latest movie teens liked. ,,Twilight episode!" ,,Highschool Musical episode" ,,Cloverfield episode!"
This is true. Esp with the caper nick protest. The gist was "lol until you need the police!" Which is what all people say that miss the point of "stop executing black people." It's that all lives matter shit. Or white people taking offense to black anything, not listening, and assuming people hate all cops. There's no defense or acknowlegement of the behavior..
it's just..but till you need em...
That struck me the wrong way, and I don't know if it was their intention. But that illustrates your point pretty well.
Correct. There's plenty of reason beyond feeling upset they turned their sights on you to have disliked Season 19. Chief among them simply not finding the episodes or season long arc method of SP storytelling or some individual topics (Yelp reviewers for example) all that interesting or funny. I'd agree with disliking parts and disagree with disliking other parts, but hey, opinions on a piece of entertainment.
But you can distinguish between those reasons and feeling personally offended when you see posters here who try to turn liking the show into a possible indicator of a person being "alt-right". And given alt-right is but branding for young white supremacist nerds on the internet, it's not hard to hear the dog whistle.
So for them, nah. No benefit of the doubt given. It's just hurt feelings manifesting itself in an embarrassingly stupid way.
Okay, I've seen couple of posts like so far in this thread. But who is actually saying this? It seems that people are just making up arguments to shoot them down at this point.
I still hold the old 'don't hold up as well' episodes among my favourites, but, I find the episodes I've enjoyed most over the past decade and a half have been the ones that felt a little less 'specific to the period'. There's some stuff that is topical but can be kind of timeless, if that makes sense.
ebullientprism
Member
I dont think its ever been "great". Shows like Seinfeld/Simpsons/Frasier etc during their peak were putting out amazing episodes one after the other.
South Park on the other hand has great episodes but the ratio of great to really dull is 1:5. And I think that has stayed more or less the same since it started. It usually has like 2-3 good episodes per season and the rest of it is just filler.
It being topical or not has nothing to do with it.
South Park on the other hand has great episodes but the ratio of great to really dull is 1:5. And I think that has stayed more or less the same since it started. It usually has like 2-3 good episodes per season and the rest of it is just filler.
It being topical or not has nothing to do with it.
TDLink
Member
But South Park always does this. The first ep back of a season it is typically just a bit more noticeable because they've been off for months.
I mean literally the night after Election Day in 2008 they had an entire episode about Obama winning the election complete with audio clips from his acceptance speech the night before.
Who's offended? I'm just making a point because I disagree with the 'centrist' arguments. It's not what South Park is going for. It's just using both extreme sides of the political spectrum to make a funny show. But yes, I do think people who get offended at some very light jabbing at a view they have 'cry babies'. I'll give you that.
I don't care if people don't like South Park. I'm not even a huge fan compared to other shows. I just disagree with the echo-chamber arguments about the political nature of the show.
You'd maybe have a point if South Park was trying to ignite some grand social change. It's literally just taking the piss out of two extreme sides of the political spectrum. Both sides create inspiration to make really funny material. Why would they not tap into that?
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
People who say they don't like the anti-PC slant the show has. Been a couple in this thread and the OT.
The show use to go hard against Republicans (bush) and the religious right. Now its going after the regressive left (PC culture), liberals, Hillary, ect. Those that loved the Right Wing ribbing aren't enjoying the shoe being on the other foot. Its pretty transparent in their passive aggressive complaints (anti pc is lame, hillary shouldn't be made fun of, why aren't they hitting trump more, show was better when they made fun of bush and Catholics, etc).
Dawkins had been famous for 20+ years when that was made. Topical doesn't mean literally anything that people would recognize like some seem to be arguing, and the episode isn't about Dawkins or the Wii, but about atheism, evolution and religion.
The episode works with ANY highly anticipated toy that a kid would want, and there is no specific jokes stemming from anything Dawkins that required knowledge of him. He could be any influential atheist and the episode still works and they would have made the exact same jokes.
Yeah, I think it's more to do with the fact that they've been doing this for decades now and their quality is starting to slip. Credit to them for experimenting and trying to take risks but I really feel like their jokes are tired and their observations are trite now. I really don't expect them to explore anything meaningful about nostalgia or internet trolls this season. Maybe they will, but I doubt it.
Although that being said, I'm probably a disgusting left-wing SJW piece of shit who doesn't get comedy and can't take a joke because I don't like everybody's favourite giant douche/turd sandwich satirical masterpiece, so there's that.
It's always been topical starting since maybe Season 4. It's just some people don't like that they're the ones partially being made fun of. They've never associated with liberals or conservatives. They're not going to call all conservatives evil and racists and shouldn't. It's a show for everyone that makes fun of everyone, it's not just for liberals. Every group has extremes that deserve some mockery. A lot of people do act like PC Principal and Randy last year. That's probably some of the people disliking SP in this thread.
It's much better than it was 10 years ago. I'm glad that they're saying stuff to make people talk and upsetting people. Around Season 11 and 12, it was just boring and bordering on irrelevant. I don't think there was any good episodes at all in Season 12. It improved a lot since then.
It's much better than it was 10 years ago. I'm glad that they're saying stuff to make people talk and upsetting people. Around Season 11 and 12, it was just boring and bordering on irrelevant. I don't think there was any good episodes at all in Season 12. It improved a lot since then.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Also religious warfare, which is always topical.
What if people don't like that slant because they don't find it funny, groundbreaking, or insightful?
The episode aired literally less than a month after The God Delusion was released. It was definitely topical.
Of course. The GOAT seasons are about 6-9(4-5 and 10-11 are also stellar). SP 6-9 is the same as Simpsons 3-6 for me, just pure gold. That being said I like current SP as well. Current SP is fun to watch unfold while it's happening while 4-11 is timeless television that I will be able to rewatch forever. To be honest I'm quite happy that both types of SP exist.
Octavianus
Banned
Yes, this is why the first season is still the best.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I never said it wasn't satire...
I'm saying that previous posters asserting their own political dogma into having South Park play fiddle to having to "tackle" the issues is a shitty dogwhistle.
Satire is just satire. Satire has nothing to do with what hat you put on or how you mean it or if you are trying to be or not to be something to others.
No, not really. This is arguing that "all stories is the same" which is just a a semantic based argument. You say no new point is being made? In relation to what? Over their 20 years episode? Many of the episodes last seasons touched on subjects they had no explored previously. Obviously there becomes overlap, as "all the stories" are the same which is just a dramaturgy based fallacy.
The only thing you're really switching up when telling a story is the format- And surprise, the story delivery method they introduced last season was uncharted waters, while their game of two years ago, was them on their A-game. I think this is the opposite of being lazy? What specifically is the argument here that they are lazy or no new points have been brought up?
Saying it's the same thing over and over again due to the continuity is a point you can make on literally anything episodic. Given that south park is multilayered with usually 2-4 different stories within one episode I fail to see your point? Frat boys and PC police was one segment, but it had many other stories that funneled in and out - Like the story about the yelp reviews, the story of how suburban hip city areas destroy more rural areas, gendered bathrooms, about the need for a police force, the episode about gentrification at shitty wok, the story about native advertisement.
They touched on a whole host of other subjects they hadn't before, and I completely fail to see how you can say that "No new point was made" or that they are "lazy" because they experimented with a narrative structure and tried to weave and bob through it.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
They thought making fun of republicans, catholics, rednecks and other right wing stuff was funny in the past seasons. Why can't making fun of left wing stuff be funny?
That is a pretty transparent argument. The reason why they think those things is because they are the ones being made fun of now. Shoe is on the other foot and all that jazz.
Most of my favorite episodes (Breast Cancer Show Ever, Raisins, Casa Bonita, Fat Camp) don't have anything to do with what's going on in the world right now so... yeah I'm inclined to agree with you.
That being said, some topical episodes are absolutely hilarious. I just tend to prefer when the boys go on little adventures of their own which are not influenced by what's in the news. I know I might be in the minority, but it's alright.
That being said, some topical episodes are absolutely hilarious. I just tend to prefer when the boys go on little adventures of their own which are not influenced by what's in the news. I know I might be in the minority, but it's alright.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Do they still have stuff like David Hasselhoff? That looks like David Hasselhoff? I feel like they tried to south parkify celebrities in appearance after the first few seasons.
The show has been making fun of liberals for literal decades too. Do you think the show only gave conservatives shit for 18 seasons? There's a reason terms like South Park Republican emerged from the show.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
I realize this, but the focus is more on Liberals now (particularly the far left aka. PC Culture). In the past the show seemed to go after the right more because they were the ones in power. That doesn't mean that Al Gore didn't get made fun of too.
- Status