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[Sane_Man]

And my point is that in making of fun all shades of the political spectrum, they're essentially putting down anyone who makes a stand which, in turn, inadvertently becomes advocacy for the status quo.

'Anyone who makes a stand' is a huge exaggeration. They target the extremes. South Park was/is progressive on race equality, gay marriage, foreign intervention, etc. What they mock is the extremes (PC principal, gun nuts, racists, Scientology, and so on).

As an example, the latest episode wasn't mocking African American athletes for sitting out the national anthem. It was mocking the media who sex it up and use it as a selling-point.

 

[Bronx-Man]

I miss when South Park didn't spend most of its time pandering to middle-age white dudes that spend most of their time online whining about the damn millennials these days and their pc culture.

 

[njr]

It's been the funniest so far. I enjoy both the non topical episodes as well as their take on satirizing the ones that are.

 

[Croatoan]

I'm sorry, but how is calling people who didn't like the last season 'thin-skinned' not attacking their character?

Did you say character was being attacked?

Anyways, if calling someone thin skinned is what you consider attacking then i was wrong, you are being attacked.

 

[Silexx]

'Anyone who makes a stand' is a huge exaggeration. They target the extremes. South Park was/is progressive on race equality, gay marriage, foreign intervention, etc. What they mock is the extremes (PC principal, gun nuts, racists, Scientology, and so on).

Let me put it another way: Stone & Parker have staked their ground as being firmly in the absolute middle. In doing so, they've essentially taking a position that resists any 'rocking of the boat' and that basically results them inadvertently upholding the status quo.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

I miss when South Park didn't spend most of its time pandering to middle-age white dudes that spend most of their time online whining about the damn millennials these days and their pc culture.

Did you watch the ending of this season's premiere? Or the member berries? They seem to setting up for going against this exact line of thinking.

 

[Fitts]

I miss when South Park didn't spend most of its time pandering to middle-age white dudes that spend most of their time online whining about the damn millennials these days and their pc culture.

They've always gone after the easiest target, though. This isn't anything new.

Edit: haven't watched the season premier yet.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Let me put it another way: Stone & Parker have staked their ground as being firmly in the absolute middle. In doing so, they've essentially taking a position that resists any 'rocking of the boat' and that basically results them inadvertently upholding the status quo.

No they haven't. You only think that because you didn't understand that they were attacking extremists in the first place.

The finale of last season is literally the end of a PC Principal redemtion arc. It's them saying "Yeah, PC Principal might be overly aggressive and unreasonable at times, but ultimately his heart is in the right place and what what he's striving for is reasonable and good, even if he doesn't go about it in the most reasonable way."

 

[old]

No, you're alone on that.

 

[deli2000]

Did you say character was being attacked?

Anyways, if calling someone thin skinned is what you consider attacking then i was wrong, you are being attacked.

If you're making blanket assumptions about people you don't like in order to make fun of them for disagreeing with you, what would you call that?

I've clearly stated the reasons why I don't like the show in this thread. If you think that's thin skinned then more power to you.

 

[Cagey]

No they haven't. You only think that because you didn't understand that they were attacking extremists in the first place.

The finale of last season is literally the end of a PC Principal redemtion arc. It's them saying "Yeah, PC Principal might be overly aggressive and unreasonable at times, but ultimately his heart is in the right place and what what he's striving for is reasonable and good, even if he doesn't go about it in the most reasonable way."

You get the sense people tuned out by that point because of the earlier presentation of the PC Principal character as the villain, before the show revealed the true intent of the PC Frat (the frat demographic makeup was not an accident) and his ultimate "he's got flaws and he's an annoying jackass at times but he's right and for the right reasons" story conclusion.

I can understand people tuning out before the end, no one needs to consume media they're not interested in, but that doesn't mean their views are still valid or worth listening to.

 

[ShirAhava]

I miss when it was just kids in school, neighborhood shit in south park, cows, aliens, chef ect.

The new south park isn't bad but its a almost a completely different show.

 

[Epcott]

I like it more topical. I like the old stuff too, but I could see myself becoming tired with it if they kept it up. It reminds me of when Drawn Together had so much salt, they alluded to it passive-agressively in their film.

Of course, they slip up... But often they hit the bullseye, especially last season with Safe Space and gentrification.

 

[deadscreensky]

Have Trey & Matt ever made fun of libertarianism at all? Genuine question. No snark.

Also curious about this.

I like South Park, but their 'both sides' satire has always been so lazy and cowardly. (There's nothing new about it, of course, even Team America was 12 years ago.) It definitely is a pro-establishment stance, it's funny how a lot of fans don't recognize that.

 

[Juanfp]

What I don't like its that I feel they are putting a lot of different topics in one episode, just choose one and make all the episode about it.

 

[Daniel Jackson]

I like both the old and the new South Park. It's also a great thing they re-rendered the old seasons, they look a lot better now.

 

[Silexx]

No they haven't. You only think that because you didn't understand that they were attacking extremists in the first place.

And it's this exact thinking that 'both sides have their extremists who are equally bad' that causes SP to fall for this fallacy.

 

[Reckheim]

Nah, season 19 was the best thing on TV last season and the opener of this season was pretty strong too. People's problem is that GAF is a very left-leaning board. The left isn't used to being made fun of and predictably labels everything that includes them in their satire as lazy/nihilistic/racist/alt-right, etc. Last season pulled off a fantastic philosophical dissection of PC culture as analogous to advertising/gentrification, and this season's 'Memberberries hint at doing the same for nostalgia. But of course, in their mockery of Trumpism they also pointed out that a lot of people dislike Hillary Clinton, whom most people here are desperately trying to convince themselves is a great and wonderous candidate and everyone who won't vote for her is racist/alt-right/[insert buzzword here], so you get the usual regurgitations of 'they say every side is equally bad, how lazy' when recent SP has, in fact, been better than anyone at satirising issues in their full complexity and expressing very clear intellectual points of view, albeit supporting neither the left or right and thus pissing off both (but especially the thin-skinned left on boards like this), who see anything not offering them complete validation and support as being inherently stupid or evil.

Great post, I also felt like the last season was great.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

They're 40-something libertarians now, right? So the comedy has a much different focus. The older stuff has an unpolished surrealism that I really enjoyed but the newer stuff still makes me laugh for the most part.

I started watching season 19 eps after not being able to see the show for a while and while there are some wild swings I still think it's good. The funniest thing is that people who love it specifically because of the anti-PC focus and/or because it makes people upset seem not to realize that it still shits on everyone. Parker and Stone believe in themselves, nothing else.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

And it's this exact thinking that 'both sides have their extremists who are equally bad' that causes SP to fall for this fallacy.

All extremists ARE bad. They are unreasonable people who don't add anything and in a lot of cases actively hurt conversation and progress.

Look up the synonyms for "Extremist" and tell me how any of them are positive and helpful.

 

[The Janitor]

Agree. It's like a meme show now, most episodes feel poorly written compared to the older stuff.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

Agree. It's like a meme show now, most episodes feel poorly written compared to the older stuff.

Lets be real, it was always a meme show.

 

[Kreed]

Nah, season 19 was the best thing on TV last season and the opener of this season was pretty strong too. People's problem is that GAF is a very left-leaning board. The left isn't used to being made fun of and predictably labels everything that includes them in their satire as lazy/nihilistic/racist/alt-right, etc. Last season pulled off a fantastic philosophical dissection of PC culture as analogous to advertising/gentrification, and this season's 'Memberberries hint at doing the same for nostalgia. But of course, in their mockery of Trumpism they also pointed out that a lot of people dislike Hillary Clinton, whom most people here are desperately trying to convince themselves is a great and wonderous candidate and everyone who won't vote for her is racist/alt-right/[insert buzzword here], so you get the usual regurgitations of 'they say every side is equally bad, how lazy' when recent SP has, in fact, been better than anyone at satirising issues in their full complexity and expressing very clear intellectual points of view, albeit supporting neither the left or right and thus pissing off both (but especially the thin-skinned left on boards like this), who see anything not offering them complete validation and support as being inherently stupid or evil.

This isn't what the OP is trying to discuss and this is saying much more about you and your personal views than being a good explanation for the criticisms being made about the current status of the show (ex: the criticisms being made in the OP existed long before Season 19, and started appearing a little after the season with the "Scott Tenorman Must Die" episode).

 

[deli2000]

Agree. It's like a meme show now, most episodes feel poorly written compared to the older stuff.

I think it tends to suffer more because they're covering incremental progressions of multiple storylines over a whole season, rather than one topic per episode with a some 2-3 episode arcs thrown in.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Still makes me laugh.

Will watch until it doesn't.

 

[DarkKyo]

Nah, season 19 was the best thing on TV last season and the opener of this season was pretty strong too. People's problem is that GAF is a very left-leaning board. The left isn't used to being made fun of and predictably labels everything that includes them in their satire as lazy/nihilistic/racist/alt-right, etc. Last season pulled off a fantastic philosophical dissection of PC culture as analogous to advertising/gentrification, and this season's 'Memberberries hint at doing the same for nostalgia. But of course, in their mockery of Trumpism they also pointed out that a lot of people dislike Hillary Clinton, whom most people here are desperately trying to convince themselves is a great and wonderous candidate and everyone who won't vote for her is racist/alt-right/[insert buzzword here], so you get the usual regurgitations of 'they say every side is equally bad, how lazy' when recent SP has, in fact, been better than anyone at satirising issues in their full complexity and expressing very clear intellectual points of view, albeit supporting neither the left or right and thus pissing off both (but especially the thin-skinned left on boards like this), who see anything not offering them complete validation and support as being inherently stupid or evil.

I could not have said it better myself. The left(in general terms, and I consider myself quite left) has always been a bit whiny and hypocritical about this sort of thing but the new generation of the left is so much more vocal and militant about it likely because they were raised on the internet.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Offensive humor has always been part of the show. There is some hypocrisy in laughing at the funny cripples and spastics on the show then getting upset when the humor is pointed in your direction.

 

[John Dunbar]

how much does matt stone actually contribute to the show anymore, besides voices? for years now pretty much every episode has been written and directed by trey parker. i think it has been close to a decade since stone received writing credit for an episode.

 

[Jacobi]

South Park is as dead as Simpsons

 

[q_q]

All extremists ARE bad. They are unreasonable people who don't add anything and in a lot of cases actively hurt conversation and progress.

Look up the synonyms for "Extremist" and tell me how any of them are positive and helpful.

His point is that it depends on your definition of extremist. For instance, a scientist advocating banning carbon emissions to fight climate change would be considered an extremist by many, perhaps even by Matt and Trey. Is that person really an extremist though? No they're just a reasonable person fighting against unreasonable norms and so they end up being portrayed as "extremists."

Someone's views should be considered on their own merit, not based on what opposing opinions might hold. That is a basic principle of reason, and the argument is that South Park ignores that sometimes for the sake of a joke or plotline. I still love the show of course, doesn't really bother me that much since I still laugh.

 

[SturokBGD]

I think most people do remember and recognize the difference in current episodes to those you remember shaping humor.

*whoosh*

 

[Spacejaws]

I with the few people that a tually really enjoyed the early seasons. Sure they were crude but the dialogue and characters were sharp. Definetly the product of some very vivd imaginations or copious amounts of drugs.

The early stuff was more reminiscent of the Monty Python madness. Seasons 4 onward felt like it got smoothed out and became more topical but the wiritng beats were still spot on. Later seasons for me really drop off quality wise. They feel like they were made in a day, half assed jokes that don't work and repeating them throughout episodes like bad memes. I still watch the new stuff and time to time they have a great episode but man Inwish they would drop it and do something fresh.

The game for instance was amazing.

 

[DarkKyo]

South Park is as dead as Simpsons

Lol let's not get crazy with the hyperbole. South Park has at least managed to stay relevant.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

His point is that it depends on your definition of extremist. For instance, a scientist advocating banning carbon emissions to fight climate change would be considered an extremist by many, perhaps even by Matt and Trey. Is that person really an extremist though? No they're just a reasonable person fighting against unreasonable norms and so they end up being portrayed as "extremists."

Someone's views should be considered on their own merit, not based on what opposing opinions might hold. That is a basic principle of reason, and the argument is that South Park ignores that sometimes for the sake of a joke or plotline. I still love the show of course, doesn't really bother me that much since I still laugh.

PC Principal isn't just an extremist because of his views, he's also an extremist because of his attitude and demeanor towards people who either disagree or are ignorant to what he's talking about. You can have reasonable opinions about something and still be an extremist about how you voice/act when relaying those opinions.

As per your scientist example, trying to ban carbon emissions is debatably an extremist view, but going around shaming and putting down people who drive cars, or are simply ignorant to the harm carbon emissions do would probably push people to think you're extremist.

As for another example, there are plenty of perfectly reasonable vegetarians who abstain from eating meat. Then there are vegetarians who aren't satisfied with simply abstaining from meat themselves and try to go around shaming people who doeat meat. They're extremist because they're taking their perfectly reasonable ideology and pushing it on others by demanding that they think like the vegetarian does. And if they don't said vegetarians see the other person as deplorable simply because they don't hold the same values.

When you have a character trying to tell a mentally handicapped character how to feel about what other people say to mentally handicapped people and then getting mad when said mentally handicapped character holds an opposing viewpoint, you're pretty clearly making a person who is an extremist.

I honestly don't even know how you could debate that PC Princial isn't an extremist character when he's literally a representation of a group of people who actually exist. How far would Trey and Matt have to take PC Principal before you would consider him to have extremist views or actions?

 

[Spieler Eins]

I with the few people that a tually really enjoyed the early seasons. Sure they were crude but the dialogue and characters were sharp. Definetly the product of some very vivd imaginations or copious amounts of drugs.

The early stuff was more reminiscent of the Monty Python madness. Seasons 4 onward felt like it got smoothed out and became more topical but the wiritng beats were still spot on. Later seasons for me really drop off quality wise. They feel like they were made in a day, half assed jokes that don't work and repeating them throughout episodes like bad memes. I still watch the new stuff and time to time they have a great episode but man Inwish they would drop it and do something fresh.

The game for instance was amazing.

Midway through the good/meh episode ratio for a season switched from 80/20 to the complete opposite. They hate season 2 because they were just completely stoned writing that, but seeing things like Spookyfish a decade or so later still had me in tears.

 

[msdstc]

LOL it's clear Trey and Matt have struck a nerve hard with their recent attacks on PC culture. Their whole MO has always been equal opportunity bashing, despite having views buried in there. It just so happens that now, what they're attacking the majority of the internet age or gaffers in this case can't get behind. I think Trey and Matt are at the absolute top of their game right now tbh. They have structured their planning in a way that they don't get burned out. You could tell the former format during that few season stretch a few years back took a toll on them. But now they're back to great.

So imo the reason so many people are upset by this recent trend has much less to do with being topical and much more to do with what they're attacking.

 

[Spieler Eins]

LOL it's clear Trey and Matt have struck a nerve hard with their recent attacks on PC culture. Their whole MO has always been equal opportunity bashing, despite having views buried in there. It just so happens that now, what they're attacking the majority of the internet age or gaffers in this case can't get behind.

I agreed with their stance last season, but that doesn't make the show any funnier (certainly not compared to season 1~10) and the whole buildup from their continuity went absolutely nowhere for the second time in a row.
The game was the best thing they did last decade, by a large margin.

 

[Trojita]

I miss when South Park didn't spend most of its time pandering to middle-age white dudes that spend most of their time online whining about the damn millennials these days and their pc culture.

The Member Berries bits were specifically making fun of those people that are racist and anti-immigrant.

 

[smokeymicpot]

LOL it's clear Trey and Matt have struck a nerve hard with their recent attacks on PC culture. Their whole MO has always been equal opportunity bashing, despite having views buried in there. It just so happens that now, what they're attacking the majority of the internet age or gaffers in this case can't get behind. I think Trey and Matt are at the absolute top of their game right now tbh. They have structured their planning in a way that they don't get burned out. You could tell the former format during that few season stretch a few years back took a toll on them. But now they're back to great.

So imo the reason so many people are upset by this recent trend has much less to do with being topical and much more to do with what they're attacking.

Exactly after Book of Mormon you can tell easily they were not feeling it anymore. Once they changed it back to a 10 episodes a year they been on fire.

 

[msdstc]

I miss when it was just kids in school, neighborhood shit in south park, cows, aliens, chef ect.

The new south park isn't bad but its a almost a completely different show.

It hasn't been that since season 3 or 4...........

 

[stufte]

I miss when South Park didn't spend most of its time pandering to middle-age white dudes that spend most of their time online whining about the damn millennials these days and their pc culture.

So you don't watch the show? Or are you not paying attention to the content? I'm confused, because they aren't doing that at all...

 

[Adam_Vania]

So imo the reason so many people are upset by this recent trend has much less to do with being topical and much more to do with what they're attacking.

nah, it's that they aren't funny anymore. or original. or interesting.

season 18 had tons of great ideas. the Ground Vindaloop episode was a brilliant bit of sci fi horror comedy.

this stuff, it's just predictable, safe, dull. dull in the very real sense of the word, meaning "not sharp". any idiot can load up a facebook feed and feel superior to it. it takes zero effort.

 

[Bronx-Man]

The Member Berries bits were specifically making fun of those people that are racist and anti-immigrant.

I'll be on the lookout for reruns of it then.

 

[Dunedain_Ranger]

Only thing that comes to mind right now is the episode where Stan is getting older and everything turns to shit.

 

[Nekofrog]

I know Matt and Trey dislike season 2 a lot, but to me that season was the show truly finding what worked and it never fired as well as it did that season.

 

[thespot84]

Only thing that comes to mind right now is the episode where Stan is getting older and everything turns to shit.

That and member berries. Which is kind of amazing when you consider that they are addressing this criticism in the very latest episode. Always ahead of the curve.

 

[thepotatoman]

LOL it's clear Trey and Matt have struck a nerve hard with their recent attacks on PC culture. Their whole MO has always been equal opportunity bashing, despite having views buried in there. It just so happens that now, what they're attacking the majority of the internet age or gaffers in this case can't get behind. I think Trey and Matt are at the absolute top of their game right now tbh. They have structured their planning in a way that they don't get burned out. You could tell the former format during that few season stretch a few years back took a toll on them. But now they're back to great.

So imo the reason so many people are upset by this recent trend has much less to do with being topical and much more to do with what they're attacking.

Well, people seem to handle the global warming skepticism of the past just fine. They've also addressed political correctness a lot in the past without there being a revolt.

Of course it's a lot easier to like something you agree with, but I would say something must have changed if people are just now starting to dislike the show because of differences in political view.

 

[Tambini]

I do agree but I still love it, my favourite episodes are when its just the boys being boys though

 

[Shaanyboi]

The Member Berries bits were specifically making fun of those people that are racist and anti-immigrant.

The 'member berries episode is a genuinely clever little episode, being topical without trying to be like "both sides, guys."

 

[DarkKyo]

It hasn't been that since season 3 or 4...........

What?!?! This is a completely absurd opinion!!! What about Awesome-O? Casa Bonita? Lil' Crime Stoppers? Quest For Ratings? Good Times With Weapons? Cartman's Incredible Gift? I could go on and on and list dozens and dozens of episodes between seasons 5-11 or so that deal exclusively with original plotlines involving the kids and characters and the town without being at all related to current events or news stories. You must have actually stopped watching at season 4 to hold this opinion.