MonkeyClaw36
Banned
Early adopter = Beta tester
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Don’t understand the general dislike for Windows PC handhelds. They are leagues above the Deck.
- Thread starter Mythoclast
- Start date
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
I adopted a year after the deck release, does that make me a beta tester?Early adopter = Beta tester
Codeblew
Member
A lot of people just don't like Windows and would use any excuse not to use it. I spend 95% of my time booted into my Ubuntu partition. I only use windows if there is a game that I HAVE to play that isn't available on Steam/Linux or my PS5 or if I want to update firmwares. Since I usually only log into Windows once every month or two, I often have to spend and hour going through the windows update/reboot cycle when I do.
MonkeyClaw36
Banned
Nope. Early adopter = launch buy. You then just KNOW there will be some form of discomfort/ trouble.
A year is more then enough to iron out software errors or use different components to improve the hardware.
Kinda like buying a day one 360 and getting the RRoD or buy it a year later with this issue resolved.
joeygreco1985
Member
I've had my Ally since July and I absolutely love the form factor. Just this morning as an example, I woke up and got the kids ready for school, played Fortnite with my son on the couch on my Ally before heading to school. Shutdown fortnite, headed downstairs, docked my Ally to my monitor/keyboard/mouse and started my work day. No fuss, just works.
ASUS has been putting out regular updates since launch, and its improved significantly since I got mine in July. Its a great system.
ASUS has been putting out regular updates since launch, and its improved significantly since I got mine in July. Its a great system.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Rog Ally is fantastic as a Windows desktop.
bigdad2007
Member
No quick resume is an absolute non sell for me. I got too used to xbox/the switch where you can just literally pick up where you left off.
What is the point of a handheld where the selling point is literally "pick up and play on the go" when you can't actually do that on any of these windows "handhelds". If I have only like 10-15 min to play and it takes a minute for windows to boot from sleep and then another minute or two to get into the game it kind of kills the entire point of a system like this for me.
If all your doing is just sitting on your couch at home and not actually using it as a portable, just hook a PC up to your living room TV then. You will have infinity better performance than a handheld.
What is the point of a handheld where the selling point is literally "pick up and play on the go" when you can't actually do that on any of these windows "handhelds". If I have only like 10-15 min to play and it takes a minute for windows to boot from sleep and then another minute or two to get into the game it kind of kills the entire point of a system like this for me.
If all your doing is just sitting on your couch at home and not actually using it as a portable, just hook a PC up to your living room TV then. You will have infinity better performance than a handheld.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Not having to buy proprietary games > slight hypothetical power and battery improvement.
Topher
Identifies as young
Eh.....I have a gaming PC hooked up to a big TV in my office, but I actually prefer playing some games on Steam Deck. Octopath Traveler 2 and Triangle Strategy come to mind. Big screen doesn't really do much for games like that, imo.
Topher
Identifies as young
Even if that is true that doesn't negate the advantages of PC gaming in a handheld. And consoles are easily leapfrogged in PC tech just by virtue of not being tied to 5-7 year generations.
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Lucifers Beard
Member
They might be more powerful, but isn't the battery life absolutely terrible? That's enough to put me off and a key reason I upgraded from the LCD Steam Deck.
I also disagree that Windows is better in the handheld gaming space. Linux has less overhead and just performs better in my experience. However, it is a bit annoying that some games are just not supported because of some anti cheat software. I can live with that though.
Oh and on the point of windows, does it support quick resume on these handhelds? I can press the power button to put the deck to sleep and then later in the day press it again and I'm almost instantly where I left off.
Your last point about OLED is just a bit silly though, it's a fucking game changer in my opinion and it having a smaller screen isn't a problem. Some games that support HDR look absolutely amazing on it, Cyberpunk especially.
All being said though, it's mostly down to preference. I can't see myself moving away from Steam Deck because it suits my needs.
mayham2199
Member
I haven't tried these other windows handhelds but I thought Steamdeck with windows + Playnite worked really well.
That was the concern when the players in the game were the likes of Aya and GPD.
Lenovo, Asus and MSI aren’t exactly new to hardware, and people have the option to get drivers for the APU from AMD. It isn’t custom
And this is the FUD the OP’s talking about. A minute to boot up from Sleep? Another minute to get into game? That’s absolutely untrue. It’s not perfect and certainly not as good or battery efficient as SteamOS, but sleep will get you back to your game in seconds, and hibernate works too.
Yes, it does. Slightly slower than the Deck.
zenspider
Member
This. PC heads always underestimate how much people hate using computers. I have a very decent PC setup and I still prefer to play on Switch, MiSTer, PS4, etc. unless I must.
GHG
Gold Member
Considering how deep Microsoft have their claws in these OEM's that's never going to happen and you know it.
When has there ever been precedence for pre-built PC's (of any form factor) to ship with dual boot pre-configured and ready to go? In fact, there are very few examples of PC's shipping with Linux pre-installed at all.
I haven’t heard of any such restrictions on the Microsoft side, at least not recently. Lenovo just showed off a tablet at CES with Android and Windows dualboot. Multiple OEMs wanted to go down that path years ago, but Google was the obstacle then IIRC.
It doesn’t even have to be preconfigured. Just provide robust support for both OSes, with installation images and easy dualboot support. Even crazy Apple supported BootCamp for years!
Unknown Soldier
Member
Microsoft has long purposely made it difficult to dual boot Windows with something. The Windows boot loader can only boot Windows and things like Secure Boot are intentionally designed to make booting other operating systems harder.
This is also ironic because the Windows boot loader is a piece of shit and a pain in the ass for anyone who has tried to something as simple as transfer their Windows boot drive from one SSD to another. And then there's Bitlocker, don't get me started on that giant heap of shit even if you are single booting Windows much less trying to dual boot.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, but if you are savy enough to dual boot operating systems then you'll easily figure out how to install Windows without any of that secure boot bullshit.
SlimeGooGoo
Banned
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I really, really love my rog ally.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
nice gif and cool response. Unfortunately, I have stuck a pipebomb inside your Nintendo switch.no u
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TaroYamada
Member
The Windows handhelds are based on what people think they want, you can see the influence from the marketing department on each. The Deck is built around how the machine will actually be used and designed by people who have a more thorough understanding of PC gamers than anybody else. See trackpads, balance between horsepower and battery life. People who do not have a good understanding of design think they want a Windows machine.
The lack of reliable sleep function alone is a deal breaker on a handheld. Everybody I know who went Windows ended up turning around and buying Deck. Until sleep happens on one of these things they are just a complete non-starter.
The lack of reliable sleep function alone is a deal breaker on a handheld. Everybody I know who went Windows ended up turning around and buying Deck. Until sleep happens on one of these things they are just a complete non-starter.
SlimeGooGoo
Banned
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LavitzSlambert
Member
Ok, so you're saying it's "PC version" and not technically a port. I think you're mincing words there, but sure let's go with it. You still seem to be making the argument for target spec hardware (consoles) and acknowledge how much more effort is required to make the PC version run well on most machines. You also bring up the point of patching later to fix issues. Look at how many PC versions are released much later (some even years) than console versions. Now consider it takes even longer to patch them to fix performance issues. So console gamers often get to play sooner, with less performance problems, and at a lower cost.
I would see more reason if there were any big PC games that actually pushed PC hardware to the limits. I'm talking about The Witcher 3 at launch, or Crysis back in the late 2000s. We just don't see this happen too often anymore, and the rare times it does you're expected to pay for a GPU that costs more than the entire console it competes with.
Did you typo 7800 XT, a card with similar power, price, and less efficient than a card with 12GB VRAM - the 4070? We have no benchmarks, prices, or even an announcement for the 8700 XT as far as I'm aware.
The rest of this is not directed at you, but more so anyone hopeful for AMD's next gen offerings. I've bounced between team red and green for as long as I've gamed on PC. My first ever PC upgrade was a 9000 series Radeon and I hold ATI (now AMD) in a special place in my heart as a scrappy underdog. It's been over a decade since AMD has done anything but at best match Nvidia. Every card they release either performs worse, runs hotter, and costs the same as their competitors. As an AMD fan, I see no reason to buy their products. Even if they did match in performance and efficiency, there are other advantages Nvidia offers value in like software and drivers. I so badly hope they finally break the cycle and release a straight up superior product that will finally wake Nvidia up and bring back competition in the GPU space. I just don't see it happening now, or anytime soon.
A couple hundred off for used, last gen GPU does not sound like a good value to me. They were wildly overpriced to start.
There is certainly appeal to better visuals/smoother framerate. That's a major reason people choose PC as their main platform. At one point it did offer something different, but for several years now that hasn't been the case, and consoles closed the gap. Now people are being sold $600 mid range GPUs, $200 RGB peripherals, and $60+ Playstation ports 2 years late that run worse on their brand new rig than on PS5.
SolidQ
Gold Member
I'm mean future card, coming later this year. dies are tiny, so cheap produce them.
They make fine product since RDNA2, after GCN1-2. NV and AMD have good and bad cards per tier.
Say this to RX6600, which kill 3050
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Unknown Soldier
Member
It's amazing how in 2024 the only power states Windows can handle properly are On and Off. I gave up on Sleep in Windows a long time ago because MS did many years ago when they tried to implement Modern Standby and it was a disaster, today the only thing I use is Hibernate.
My MacBook Pro works just like a phone, I shut the lid and it goes into a low power state and still checks my email every now and then. I never need to shut it down and I only restart it for OS updates. I open the lid and it shows me the login screen instantly and my emails are there for me to look at. It Just Works™.
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Jayjayhd34
Member
Value fan boys can utter worst constantly going om on about how bad every store is when in reality there's very little wrong them.
Think your totally out loop I can't think of many games that take years to come to pc rockstar games square Enix (sometimes) and sonys games but that's getting smaller and smaller.
Witcher 3 is good one as there wasn't any gpu at time release that could actually max it out at good fps the same with all the games you mention so it wasn't just expensive it was impossible. The only differences than back then is that NVIDiA releases GPUs that are more expensive however you can actually max out the most demanding games. You act like nvdia don't even release budget cards they do and for 1080p there rather good.
There's no augment pc gaming is more expensive than console gaming it always has been.
My first ever machine that got when I was recovering from bronchitis (my mum thought I was gonna die,) so she went bought the most expensive pc from pc world 1500 pounds she spent back then.
The point Is i don't see much change at all its nothing unique to tech market, the higher prices just look at phones I mean everything these days is getting expensive.
PC gaming is always will be the best way to enjoy games as long as got the money for it or don't mind playing at 1080p.
Don't act like all console games come free from performance problem and bugs etc as they are not. On PC if dev takes pisss fixing things etleast you can resort to mods that are as simple as installing a game and copy and pasting.
.you just come across as someone who hasn't seen recent games running modern hardware. Look ac mirage in 4k max settings and compare that to whats on console the difference is astonishing. I open it back up yesterday and my jaw dropped.
Think your totally out loop I can't think of many games that take years to come to pc rockstar games square Enix (sometimes) and sonys games but that's getting smaller and smaller.
Witcher 3 is good one as there wasn't any gpu at time release that could actually max it out at good fps the same with all the games you mention so it wasn't just expensive it was impossible. The only differences than back then is that NVIDiA releases GPUs that are more expensive however you can actually max out the most demanding games. You act like nvdia don't even release budget cards they do and for 1080p there rather good.
There's no augment pc gaming is more expensive than console gaming it always has been.
My first ever machine that got when I was recovering from bronchitis (my mum thought I was gonna die,) so she went bought the most expensive pc from pc world 1500 pounds she spent back then.
The point Is i don't see much change at all its nothing unique to tech market, the higher prices just look at phones I mean everything these days is getting expensive.
PC gaming is always will be the best way to enjoy games as long as got the money for it or don't mind playing at 1080p.
Don't act like all console games come free from performance problem and bugs etc as they are not. On PC if dev takes pisss fixing things etleast you can resort to mods that are as simple as installing a game and copy and pasting.
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fixboot is your friend
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Cyberpunk 2077 gets more and more impressive and demanding with each update
Alan Wake 2 came out a few months ago and looks drop dead gorgeous
Half Life 2 RTX will be coming out and that's an insane graphics showcase, as well as all the other RTX remasters of the older games
etc etc etc
the issue is that you people time and time again keep assuming that the only thing PC has to offer over consoles is better graphics when that's not the case. The fact there are budget builds that are either worse than or match the consoles in performance proves that point. The vast majority of PC gamers own a PC because of way more than simply graphics.
It's always the same thing with these people who try to downplay the benefits of PC gaming. They see the RTX, they see the graphics, and they assume that's literally all there is to playing on PC over a console
Happosai
Hold onto your panties
All that and the fact that you have to think down the road what type of support any given Windows handheld will/will not have in 5-years or less. Steam BIOS is much more solid and I see Steam having successors 5-years from now. These windows handhelds seem to be a dime a dozen. It's not bad hardware but reminds me of how the market for tablets worked. I mean, tablets caught on really big with the iPad (and I'm certainly not an Apple guy). Then we had everyone attempting some version on various OS' including Microsoft's Surface. OG iPad still works and newer ones are pretty solid. Surface...uh. That's kinda how I see Steam handheld vs. any given Windows handheld.Despite it being more necessary, all these windows handhelds don't have a trackpad but the Steam Deck does.
Let that sink in.
But also:
And with that I'll take the following advice and stay away from windows handheld devices:
Chiggs
Gold Member
People defending the Windows handhelds really tell the tale about how browbeaten consumers have become.
"Who cares if the battery life is terrible or if the SD card slot is basically useless because of thermal problems which destroy it in a matter of days or weeks!"
"Who cares if the software is pure fucking garbage!"
"Who cares if I have to lower the resolution or run at a lower TDP, thus making any gains over the Steam Deck completely null and void!"
I owned the Ally for less than a week and sent it packing. I owned the Legion Go for two days and also sent it packing. These Windows handhelds are a disaster and will continue to be until Microsoft makes a custom version of Windows for them.
"Who cares if the battery life is terrible or if the SD card slot is basically useless because of thermal problems which destroy it in a matter of days or weeks!"
"Who cares if the software is pure fucking garbage!"
"Who cares if I have to lower the resolution or run at a lower TDP, thus making any gains over the Steam Deck completely null and void!"
I owned the Ally for less than a week and sent it packing. I owned the Legion Go for two days and also sent it packing. These Windows handhelds are a disaster and will continue to be until Microsoft makes a custom version of Windows for them.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
As an owner of a Surface Pro 2, I can confirm that Microsoft has abandoned this product entirely. Windows 11 does not install on it without the workarounds to bypass the hardware checks, and there are no longer any drivers for the included WiFi module which were certified past Windows 8 compatibility. When Windows 10 updates end in 2025, my SP2 will become a doorstop. It works just fine for looking at Chrome and watching videos but MS has decided that it and every other PC which can't install 11 will die. Note that 60%+ of the world's PC's, over 1 billion computers worldwide, cannot install 11, so 2025 is going to be a very interesting year if MS really does terminate 10 support but not let currently incompatible machines install 11.
I'm aware of this, having transferred my boot drive many a time. You shouldn't have to boot from a USB key to reach a command prompt to use fixboot /mbr, the fucking boot drive should just be transferable. This should be a built-in function of Windows and not require this level of work for something so notionally simple.
Minsc
Gold Member
Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I went to Best Buy and demoed the Ally and it was pretty impressive, but that SD card issue (literally bricking SD cards) soured me quite a bit on it.
And then their response of raising the fan levels at all times in firmware was equally appalling, especially for those who don't even use the SD card, nor did it fix the issue.
And then their response of raising the fan levels at all times in firmware was equally appalling, especially for those who don't even use the SD card, nor did it fix the issue.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, kind of sucks that the optional storage is effectively useless. I never risked putting a microSD in the thing.
Happosai
Hold onto your panties
You understood my comparison first person. Surface Pro 2 was a rather large risk for MS and certainly not a cheap tablet. However, that's just it right there...not even halfway into the life of the tablet and you've got issues with compatibility, drivers and keeping it up-to-date. This brings us back to a Legion (or any Windows handheld game console) vs. 'the Deck'. The Deck doesn't need all that clutter to operate and the first commercial model is relatively easy for most to maintain without early signs of obsolescence due to the OS. The competitors are a gamble at that given Legion's price point too. Anytime I buy something like this, I think of how it'll operate long-term based on the software.
The Deck got it right and the handheld tends to stick exclusively to Steam by design wasn't meant (although it has the capability) to emulate other portable consoles. Competitor running on Windows are like that restaurant that can't maintain QC because their menu's too big, too many cooks and all the folks are getting lunch at the place with 5 items or less on the menu. People like choices but when marketing hardware like this toward a particular audience; you do want the bigger percentage of the pie. Nintendo knew how to do this too with far less and look how that worked for them. Handheld game isn't for everyone. That's my bias.
it's a cost benefit from ms' perspective. most people won't do this. ms is more concerned with getting you into the microsoft store and using edge.
Topher
Identifies as young
The only thing that is really more "console like" on Steam Deck is the OS overlay which simplifies a lot of things. But exit that and go to desktop and you have every bit a full open operating system to do what you will with. That's very much still a PC centric experience.
geary
Member
People just like to dislike everything
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Deck can run Windows.
Topher
Identifies as young
CityHunter1981
Member
I think a big plus of the steam deck is that some games already include optimized settings for the deck, which is one of the reasons why consoles are so popular. With all these Windows systems you first need to test a lot of settings to see how the game is running. Sure, if you search on the internet I am sure you can find the optimal settings, but for steam deck it’s easier for sure.
Fabieter
Member
Why would it look better than a expensive 4k oled tv. That doesnt make any sense.