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Don't wear a Romney shirt!

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Are the things being said untrue?

Is it illogical to assume a girl who wears a Romney-Ryan t-shirt to high school and has parents who fly 2 tea party flags in their front yard was lying when she claimed she didn't know if her parents were Republicans?

Come on now.. this is called being rational, not victim blaming or mere "attempts" to discredit. The evidence discredits them IMO, I don't have to go out of my way to do it.

If the story was reveresed, and the parents had a bunch of Obama posters and signs up around the house and the kid tried to act like they didn't even know if their parents were Democrats...

Yeah.. I'm SURE the right wingers around here wouldn't jump all over that. They'd be like "Well maybe the kid was telling the truth and hadn't noticed how outwardly political her parents were!"
Say the claim of ignorance about her parents' affiliation was a bald-faced lie. Does that necessarily mean she lied about the bullying? Why? Whats the link, other than the very shaky "she's lied before, so why not now"? Is that really a precedent you want to make? "She said she was raped, but she lied about the type of car her parents drive, so I don't know..."
 
She shouldn't have smoked pot and gotten suspended and walked in the rain with a hoodie on or carried skittles in her hand... Oh wait! Wrong thread.
 
I don't know if what you said is true. You offered no link to back up that statement, and it's not in either of the links posted thus far in this thread.

It was in another article I read.

Can't find it right now, but this is her Dad's Facebook page "likes"

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000689153272&sk=favorites

Glenn Beck Show.. Paul Ryan.. The Blaze.. "Nobama".. etc.

You really think this guy's daughter, who wears a Ryan-Romney shirt to school didn't know her Dad was a Republican?

I'll try to find more links

And now you're back to straw-manning invisible GAF right wing posters.

We are discussing a rhetorical situation...

Aren't we?

The hell?
 
Skepticism is warranted based on what nVidiot posted, regardless of political affiliations. And I'm not sure what your point is in saying "It's always best to get the full story before making judgements in such cases, right?" sarcastically; we have an entire justice system that operates on that principle, and for good reason.
I'm saying some stories elicit such measured introspection from GAF and others do not. The reasons why are plainly obvious.

The school confirmed there was an incident. Were this any other victim, that would be reason enough to stop the speculation. You know this.
 
Say the claim of ignorance about her parents' affiliation was a bald-faced lie. Does that necessarily mean she lied about the bullying? Why? Whats the link, other than the very shaky "she's lied before, so why not now"? Is that really a precedent you want to make? "She said she was raped, but she lied about the type of car her parents drive, so I don't know..."

What type of car someone's parents drive has nothing to do with a rape.

When telling the story of what actually happened during a rape, if that story included a lie..

Yeah, you'd get your entire story questioned.

Luckily this isn't about a rape.. it's just a story about a girl maybe being harassed by a teacher.. and all that is being accused of her is perhaps exaggeration some of her claims.. and I'm questioning that because she appears to have lied about at least one detail of the story.

Beyond that most of what I'm saying is that her parents shouldn't have turned the incident into a viral political story.
 
It was in another article I read.

Can't find it right now, but this is her Dad's Facebook page "likes"

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000689153272&sk=favorites

Glenn Beck Show.. Paul Ryan.. The Blaze.. "Nobama".. etc.

You really think this guy's daughter, who wears a Ryan-Romney shirt to school didn't know her Dad was a Republican?

Let's see. You made a statement several times in this thread. You attributed it to another article. You can't find the link. And then you just reiterate your claim again.

Yep. She's the one who engenders doubt.

And even if you're telling the truth, I still don't think that means she lied about what her teacher said. Lying about one thing doesn't make you a liar about all things. And we don't even know if the article you read was a paraphrase or something, especially since you can't reproduce it.

Further, the posted articles (the ones that don't exist only in your head) said the teacher apologized. For what then?

Look. You posted a whole bunch of shit that you can't back up, and people were very quick to quote you and laugh at what you said. Why are people willing to believe you over this girl? I would wager that it's the difference between your politics and hers.
 
They said they spoke to officials prior, but they didn't file a complain until today. Isn't that a little odd?

As you said he called in wednesday.

No. They filed a complaint and met with school administrators this past Monday.

The incident occurred LAST Friday.

They went BACK to the school today for other meetings.

They went to the school first, media second.
 

Ferrio

Banned
No. They filed a complaint and met with school administrators this past Monday.

The incident occurred LAST Friday.

They went BACK to the school today for other meetings.

They went to the school first, media second.


Her parents, Richard and Kristine Pawlucy went to the school today to file a complaint over the incident.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20121005_Students_hurl_obscenities_at_parents_in_t-shirt_case.html

Please show me where they said they filed a complaint on monday.
 

pigeon

Banned
You posted a whole bunch of shit that you can't back up, and people were very quick to quote you and laugh at what you said. Why are people willing to believe you over this girl? I would wager that it's the difference between your politics and hers.

...you contradicted yourself in the space of like two sentences?
 
Sucks that wearing that shirt lumps you in with the party that gleefully ate at Chick Fil A to celebrate a major corporation's attempt to limit the rights of fellow americans. But when you ride with racists and bigots, you get painted with that wide brush.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery


If the other students corroborate her story the teacher should be fired of course, but the above post does not play in favor of her telling the truth.

In Obama's America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering, 'Yay, right on, right on, right on, right on'.

Disgusting.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
So because her parents are republican tea partiers it's ok to blame the victim of bullying. I can't believe what I am reading. If she was treated like this by a person who is an authority figure and people are ok with it because "lolol Romney" what does that say about you? I guess it's not legitimate bullying. Had it been the other way around, corroborated or not, this thread would be a shitstorm.
 

Ferrio

Banned
So because her parents are republican tea partiers it's ok to blame the victim of bullying. I can't believe what I am reading. If she was treated like this by a person who is an authority figure and people are ok with it because "lolol Romney" what does that say about you? I guess it's not legitimate bullying. Had it been the other way around, corroborated or not, this thread would be a shitstorm.

Who's blaming the victim? All I'm trying to say is their motivations over this is very fishy. I wouldn't doubt that a teacher could of made a joke or remark. But it does sound like what might of started out as a very small incident is now being blown out of proportion.

To me the victim seems to be the one that's least involved in all of this.
 
Let's see. You made a statement several times in this thread. You attributed it to another article. You can't find the link. And then you just reiterate your claim again.

Yep. She's the one who engenders doubt.

Right.. instead I found evidence that her Father has GOP and Tea Party associated all over his Facebook page.

I'm sorry I didn't immediately pull the correct link out of my ass.

Here's their businesses Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bensa...Studio-Block-Bullying-Program/237859289586033

That's the girl, holding up an American Flag.. you think this Father doesn't involve her in his politics?

Guy with tea party and GOP stuff all over his Facebook has a business where he proudly displays an American flag held up by his daughters.. yeah..

I don't doubt she knew. That is whether or not I can find the "tea party flag" link. I'm still looking however.

And even if you're telling the truth, I still don't think that means she lied about what her teacher said. Lying about one thing doesn't make you a liar about all things. And we don't even know if the article you read was a paraphrase or something, especially since you can't reproduce it.

No, but I just linked you to her Father's Facebook page full of GOP links..

And you REALLY think a 16 year old girl wears a Ryan-Romney shirt to school without knowing her parent's political affiliation?

Further, the posted articles (the ones that don't exist only in your head) said the teacher apologized. For what then?

Maybe she did everything the girl said.

Maybe she just told a stupid joke she took too far.

I don't know for a fact either way, never said I did. I simply stated I think it's irrational to assume it's all 100% the truth.

Look. You posted a whole bunch of shit that you can't back up, and people were very quick to quote you and laugh at what you said. Why are people willing to believe you over this girl? I would wager that it's the difference between your politics and hers.

I can't back up precisely 1 thing I said about tea party flags.

But continue on with this..

You accused me of creating "straw men" for a RHETORICAL conversation. That is some BS dude. Someone needs to calm down.
 

fritolay

Member
The teacher should probably also wants separation of church and state and a bunch of other crap but then wants to talk politics.
 

pigeon

Banned

If people are quick to quote and laugh at him, then they aren't also quick to believe him.

This thread is a fascinating distillation of the Republican victimization complex. Again, if you guys think that only threads about Republicans come in for disbelief and niggling about slight details, I can only assume you only ever read threads about Republicans.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469896

Here's another example!
 
What type of car someone's parents drive has nothing to do with a rape.

When telling the story of what actually happened during a rape, if that story included a lie..

Yeah, you'd get your entire story questioned.

Luckily this isn't about a rape.. it's just a story about a girl maybe being harassed by a teacher.. and all that is being accused of her is perhaps exaggeration some of her claims.. and I'm questioning that because she appears to have lied about at least one detail of the story.

Beyond that most of what I'm saying is that her parents shouldn't have turned the incident into a viral political story.
Then what in the hell does her parents' political affiliation have to do with bullying?

There's only one claim here worthy of examination: was she bullied, or not? She could be lying about this whole scenario, but the only evidence I've seen of that position is that MAYBE her parents might be milking this story. So? Are these two scenarios mutually exclusive? I agree - anyone that tries to capitalize on this for political gain are bastards. But you're seeing connections where there aren't any, and assuming a lie when the girl could simply be naive, or raised by Libertarians. It doesn't matter. Objectivity is ideal, but the way to reach that is not through knee-jerk skepticism.
 

Ela Hadrun

Probably plays more games than you
Schools have to have set policys the cover all political speech, and then that is questionable because students are allowed to express their political ideas verbally. Limiting the legitimate expression of beliefs is legally harder then not allowing swear words or nudity.

Hey, I don't think it should be that way, but it usually is. High school students have extremely limited rights in the classroom. Schools can assert that anything that causes "classroom disruption" or "distraction from learning" as disallowed, and that is usually simply a matter of somebody's individual discretion. Same as kids don't usually have privacy rights over their personal belongings at school.

I think the kid should have the right to wear a political t-shirt at school. I was surprised that the school allowed that, and seeing that it was dress-down day is telling. Political shirts are probably against the dress code normally.

There are a couple of things that I don't buy about the story. I don't buy the thing where the girl is playing this like everything that happened was an out-of-left-field surprise. If she was wearing the shirt as a political statement, which she should have the right to do (but as a high school student, often DOESN'T have the legal right to do at school), then she would get more mileage saying "I knew people would read my shirt and have different opinions, but the teacher's unprofessional bullying surprised me." Rather than, I don't know what a freaking Republican is.

One reason she would have to lie about her political understanding is that it's possible that her case against the teacher hinges on her not intending to violate the dress code by having no intention to make a political statement. If the teacher saw a political t-shirt, said the girl had to change because it was against the dress down day rules to wear political shirts, and then the girl refused to comply, and THEN the teacher went into the "jokes" and took her into the hall, it's a slightly different story where the girl was directly challenging the teacher's authority and the high school's rules as being unconstitutional. The "I think she did it because she's against Romney" fits this story, because that means there actually was another reason for the teacher to ask her to change.

(I think the rules ARE unconstitutional, but the courts have upheld those rules over and over again because they don't give a shit about 16 year-old political consciousness.)

If she genuinely didn't understand the context of her shirt, her family, and politics in general, I feel terrible for her. It's possible to grow up in a Rush and Hannity household and believe that everyone else you know is just like you. If she is incredibly sheltered (seems likely) and has only ever seen one worldview, maybe she pulled that t-shirt out of her closet and wore it because it was comfortable. Maybe her parents were like "honey you should wear that shirt, it shows you have intelligence and integrity." And she went into school, and the teacher yelled at her and told nasty "jokes" that the girl COULDN'T get because she thought all good people, not just Republicans, were for the Romney-Ryan ticket, and her worldview was completely attacked by the idea that there are racists who support Romney.

I've been in that position, although in weaker circumstances, so I feel for her a lot if that's what's going on here and she really is just being batted around by the adults in this story.
 

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
Who's blaming the victim? All I'm trying to say is their motivations over this is very fishy. I wouldn't doubt that a teacher could of made a joke or remark. But it does sound like what might of started out as a very small incident is now being blown out of proportion.

To me the victim seems to be the one that's least involved in all of this.

I would have to imagine if this happened in a church where the girl was wearing a pro Obama shirt people around here would be out for blood.

Just a hunch.
 

Joates

Banned
Couple things, kids have some thin skin these days, and the kids in that class cant even vote so why is she campaigning at the school, such clowns.

Oh and LOL at her parents, such fucking losers, she should be more embarrassed of them than anything else.
 

Ferrio

Banned
I would have to imagine if this happened in a church where the girl was wearing a pro Obama shirt people around here would be out for blood.

Just a hunch.

I wouldn't give a shit really, I really don't give a shit about this. But in either case if the victimized party suddenly took that opportunity to push an agenda, I'd be very suspicious of it.
 

Here is an article from yesterday AM:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/19...hirt-told-to-leave-class?clienttype=printable

Her parents got word of what was going on. But, after a meeting with the principal and the teacher, they're still not satisfied.

I don't know where I read that the meeting was on Monday.. but I did.

GAF is late to the party on this one. So I've read numerous articles linked to me at other forums.

Not sure I give a shit enough to back every claim I've made in this thread.

Here's another article from yesterday I read.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...t-teacher-told-me-to-get-out-of-the-classroom

Here's some of the intellectual dishonesty:

"She told me to take off my shirt and said that she has another one if I need one. And then the teacher asked me… 'Are your parents Republican?' I said, 'I don't know.' She said that's like her wearing a KKK shirt."
Samantha was so embarrassed by the public criticism in front of her classmates that she told her parents she didn’t want to return to school.
"I didn't know what to think, I didn't think it was right at all."

They requested a meeting with the principal and the teacher. The teacher apologized to Samantha and her parents saying that the statement was meant as a joke.
"It was funny to her, but I was really embarrassed," Samantha said.
Stay informed with the latest headlines; sign up for our newsletter
"If it was a joke between two adults, I can take a joke like that but (my daughter) didn't know how to take it. She doesn’t understand, she actually thinks she did something wrong," her father, Richard Pawlucy, said.

The girl outright says she felt what the teacher did wasn't right..

Then her Dad chimes in about how "She doesn't understand, she actually thinks she did something wrong"...

But again, before I get jumped on...

I feel bad for the girl overall.. if what happened at the school was embarrassing that sucks.. but IMO ridicule is BOUND to happen to your child if you attempt to use them as some poster-board for your political beliefs. The idea that this girl didn't know her parents were Republican is BS.. I'm not harping on her like she's evil for potentially lying about that..but it's pretty clear that she's been brainwashed to be a bit of a "victim" here and the way her Dad treats her like she's just completely socially incompetent is pretty insulting, to her.
 

Matt

Member
Hey, I don't think it should be that way, but it usually is. High school students have extremely limited rights in the classroom. Schools can assert that anything that causes "classroom disruption" or "distraction from learning" as disallowed, and that is usually simply a matter of somebody's individual discretion. Same as kids don't usually have privacy rights over their personal belongings at school.

I think the kid should have the right to wear a political t-shirt at school. I was surprised that the school allowed that, and seeing that it was dress-down day is telling. Political shirts are probably against the dress code normally.

There are a couple of things that I don't buy about the story. I don't buy the thing where the girl is playing this like everything that happened was an out-of-left-field surprise. If she was wearing the shirt as a political statement, which she should have the right to do (but as a high school student, often DOESN'T have the legal right to do at school), then she would get more mileage saying "I knew people would read my shirt and have different opinions, but the teacher's unprofessional bullying surprised me." Rather than, I don't know what a freaking Republican is.

One reason she would have to lie about her political understanding is that it's possible that her case against the teacher hinges on her not intending to violate the dress code by having no intention to make a political statement. If the teacher saw a political t-shirt, said the girl had to change because it was against the dress down day rules to wear political shirts, and then the girl refused to comply, and THEN the teacher went into the "jokes" and took her into the hall, it's a slightly different story where the girl was directly challenging the teacher's authority and the high school's rules as being unconstitutional. The "I think she did it because she's against Romney" fits this story, because that means there actually was another reason for the teacher to ask her to change.

(I think the rules ARE unconstitutional, but the courts have upheld those rules over and over again because they don't give a shit about 16 year-old political consciousness.)

If she genuinely didn't understand the context of her shirt, her family, and politics in general, I feel terrible for her. It's possible to grow up in a Rush and Hannity household and believe that everyone else you know is just like you. If she is incredibly sheltered (seems likely) and has only ever seen one worldview, maybe she pulled that t-shirt out of her closet and wore it because it was comfortable. Maybe her parents were like "honey you should wear that shirt, it shows you have intelligence and integrity." And she went into school, and the teacher yelled at her and told nasty "jokes" that the girl COULDN'T get because she thought all good people, not just Republicans, were for the Romney-Ryan ticket, and her worldview was completely attacked by the idea that there are racists who support Romney.

I've been in that position, although in weaker circumstances, so I feel for her a lot if that's what's going on here and she really is just being batted around by the adults in this story.
The school has to prove the speech s disruptive, and that a specific kind of political speech is not being unfairly targeted. Schools don't always win these cases.
 

Ela Hadrun

Probably plays more games than you
I would have to imagine if this happened in a church where the girl was wearing a pro Obama shirt people around here would be out for blood.

Just a hunch.


Honestly, GAF has a pretty low opinion of teenagers.

How many more people are going to come in and not post about the story, but instead throw out weak bits about the GAF liberal hivemind?

Maybe one of these hyper-political news-cycle-addicted families can send their kid to school in an Obama t-shirt in a conservative town and call us all out on our hypocrisy when the teacher asks them to change and we storm the school with our pitchforks.
 
That's the girl, holding up an American Flag.. you think this Father doesn't involve her in his politics?

Of course he does.

And you REALLY think a 16 year old girl wears a Ryan-Romney shirt to school without knowing her parent's political affiliation?

We're misunderstanding each other. Where is the link backing up this accusation? Where did she say she didn't know her parents were Republican? I might have missed it.

EDIT: Okay. Now I see it. In the link you provided, she never said she didn't know here parents were Republicans. She said she told her teacher that she didn't know. Now you can speculate why she said that, but it's possible she was just playing ignorant to end the line of questioning, an interrogation that was entirely inappropriate.


pigeon said:
If people are quick to quote and laugh at him, then they aren't also quick to believe him.

I meant they laughed at what he wrote. Not at him.

This thread is a fascinating distillation of the Republican victimization complex. Again, if you guys think that only threads about Republicans come in for disbelief and niggling about slight details, I can only assume you only ever read threads about Republicans.

Actually, this is about to prove how reactionary you truly are. I don't know who "you guys" are, but I'm a registered Independent who's voting for Obama.

So much for your accusation of "Republican victimization complex." Despite voting for Obama, my greater political affiliation is against hypocrisy, and I'm seeing it in spades.
 

Ela Hadrun

Probably plays more games than you
The school has to prove the speech s disruptive, and that a specific kind of political speech is not being unfairly targeted. Schools don't always win these cases.

Not always, I guess. I mean, if this goes to court, we'll see what happens. But my experience has been that the first amendment doesn't really apply to kids during school hours.

It's actually one of the main reasons I work with younger students; I can't actually stand to enforce the rules of most high schools. Teaching the Bill of Rights and then "take off that Korn t-shirt" no thanks. Fucking terrible.

If she went to court over a dress code freedom of speech issue, I would totally have her back. I just don't buy that firing the teacher is an appropriate response to what happened. It sounds tragically normal to me.
 
Dude, you are reaching now. Dial it back a little.

I don't think I'm reaching whatsoever. Shoving the American Flag into your business marketing makes me assume you are a Conservative. I think not making that assumption is naive.. and someone who would have their daughters hold up an American Flag for the marketing of their business is likely not shy about stating their politics to their daughters.

Not to mention the Glenn Beck / The Blaze / Ryan/Romney stuff all over his Facebook.

It's not believable to me that she didn't know her parents were Republican.

I feel like I'm having to explain that way too much.. which is maybe why I'm apparently "reaching".

It's not even that important.. there are other obvious attention seeking behaviors at play here, mostly by her Father, who is the real culprit in this becoming a media circus.. which I feel bad for her for.
 

Empty

Member
i don't know why you're harping on about that republican parents quote so much, nvidiot. if they're tea partiers as you say it's not outside the realm of possibilities they complain a lot about romney being too left wing leading to confusion in a young teenager. like how there's people who are left wing and hate republicans but don't associate with the democrats because of drones or watered down healthcare or obama's deficit reduction plans.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Who's blaming the victim? All I'm trying to say is their motivations over this is very fishy. I wouldn't doubt that a teacher could of made a joke or remark. But it does sound like what might of started out as a very small incident is now being blown out of proportion.

To me the victim seems to be the one that's least involved in all of this.

Who is blaming the victim?

oh come on. wearing that in Philadelphia of all places?

She was just asking to be bullied wearing clothes like that.

teenage girl being dramatic and blowing something out of proportion??

I AM SHOCKED!

wow, what a little whiney girl. "I want the teacher fired"

A school has policy, most of those policies revolve around being distastefull and distracting of other students. I think the instructor had every reason to see the shirt as something that could be disruptful and the girl should've listened to her instructor.

Her parents are also idiots for running off to the conservative media and making the thing so overblown. If the teacher made an example out of her then the teacher needs to be disciplined. There's no place for someone in a position of authority to act like this. The teacher admitted to "joking" about it, but even then, such jokes would be inappropriate.
 

Jak140

Member
I'm saying some stories elicit such measured introspection from GAF and others do not. The reasons why are plainly obvious.

The school confirmed there was an incident. Were this any other victim, that would be reason enough to stop the speculation. You know this.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I had read the post I quoted in a thread about the same story except with an Obama t-shirt I would have the same reservations that there might be some exaggeration going on--not that a teacher bullying a student is ever okay.
 
I would have laughed at her too as a fellow student if I knew she was just her parents tool. In fact I did it in high school at many a classmate who'd say the stupidest shit (I went to a highschool with many, what I'd consider, very well off people).
 
If people are quick to quote and laugh at him, then they aren't also quick to believe him.

This thread is a fascinating distillation of the Republican victimization complex. Again, if you guys think that only threads about Republicans come in for disbelief and niggling about slight details, I can only assume you only ever read threads about Republicans.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469896

Here's another example!
There's a complex on display in this thread, all right.

The difference between this thread and any other victim-blaming SNAFU is that anywhere else, the victim-blamers are largely treated as the insensitive shit-stirrer they are. Here? Posters I otherwise respect and agree with on 99% of issues acting pig-headed because they don't agree with the victim's politics. It's childish and embarrassing. You people are better than that.
 
I hope that it is not crazy to think that for this single case there exist thousands of teachers facilitating the actualization of independent reasoning in a kind and stimulating manner.
 
Of course he does.

We're misunderstanding each other. Where is the link backing up this accusation? Where did she say she didn't know her parents were Republican? I might have missed it.

That was the entire point of me mentioning the tea party flag thing.

Which I found, it was posted at another forum with no link.

So I apologize for that. And I'm glad you called me out on it.. but I think there's plenty of evidence that she knew her parents were gung-ho GOP'er/tea party types. I'll ask at the other forum if the person has a link about the tea party flag thing.. but they may have been just pontificating on the extent of tea party (and other GOP/conservative) references on the Father's Facebook.


EDIT: Okay. Now I see it. In the link you provided, she never said she didn't know here parents were Republicans. She said she told her teacher that she didn't know. Now you can speculate why she said that, but it's possible she was just playing ignorant to end the line of questioning, an interrogation that was entirely inappropriate.

Fair enough.

I still think the father being such an obvious attention seeker is not really debatable.. as well as his exaggerated claims about how his 16 year old daughter "couldn't understand" what was happening.

It makes the story reek of intellectual dishonesty and makes me skeptical. I'm also skeptical of extreme left-wingers complaints as well. I don't buy every story of protesters being abused by the Police either at face value.. based on my experience of witnessing exaggeration on the matter.
 

Gray Man

Banned
I would believe it. A professor at my school wouldn't leave a kid alone for reading a Bill Orielly book.

Oh course he was also a professor of philosophy. He also had an obsession with discussion the philosophy on pot, and why we should legalize it.
 
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