DOOM Gameplay Demo (E3 2015)
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Miles Quaritch
Member
Goddamn at the chainsaw kills.
I'm still not feeling the glowing enemies when they've been staggered/set up for a melee kill. Hope they remove that.
There's no will to make original Doom-like maps. Technical capability, sure, ignoring the fact such maps are arguably more complex (and expensive!) to make, or good ones at least.
This is one thing i don't expect to change anytime soon.
Figure open-world Doom (or some other FPS) is more likely...
This is one thing i don't expect to change anytime soon.
Figure open-world Doom (or some other FPS) is more likely...
Fallout-NL
Member
I'm still not feeling the way the weapons fire and hit. It looks like something is held back.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Having watched the YouTube presentation, I got to say, this looks pretty damn good, and I really liked that SnapMap thing they shown.
I was even more impressed that the SP gameplay bit didn't suffer from some annoying git constantly jabbering in your ear telling the player what to do. Hopefully the full game is like that.
I was even more impressed that the SP gameplay bit didn't suffer from some annoying git constantly jabbering in your ear telling the player what to do. Hopefully the full game is like that.
Miles Quaritch
Member
As much as I'm not a fan of the melee kills, can someone gif a few of them from the above footage.
There's a pretty badass one where the demon is literally torn in two and the one where he snaps the leg was pretty badass too.
There's a pretty badass one where the demon is literally torn in two and the one where he snaps the leg was pretty badass too.
To be honest I wouldn't want anyone making that maps that isn't Romero or McGee or OF COURSE THE Sandy Peterson.
Of course..it would've been pretty rad if ID hired on popular Doom mappers. Imagine a retail release made by skillsaw, xaser, tarnsman, Erik Alm and what the hell, the Casali's from Valve.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
While I'm not opposed to finishing moves per se, the flashing is a rather stupid thing to add and it makes no sense in Doom, as it introduces the certainty of your enemy being done. It turns an offensive weapon into a tool for launching Mortal Kombat fatalities with no real consequences.
Removing it would make gameplay more interesting by adding a degree of uncertainty. You'd have to approach demons without knowing in full if they are going to get shredded to pieces or get back at you and maul your ass for getting too close. It would make finishing moves much more challenging and rewarding.
I think this is the first option I'll furn off if the game or the mods allow it.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
for reals lol.
Come on you expect it to look like a alien vendetta map or something?
Why not? That would actually be something quite unique by today's standards, I'm still happy with what I saw bar the coloring but it's obviously 'arena' game play.
Ixion
Member
Of course it CAN be done, but it's simply not going to happen. I'm sure id Software and Bethesda took a look at what makes Doom unique and how that can appeal to mass audiences, and they decided to focus on the fast, brutal gameplay while the abstract level design was decided to be too out there.
With that said, it looks like the new Doom has the most important similarities in level design with classic Doom. The levels look to be open and allow you to freely backtrack and explore. You're not being pushed through cinematic events, like a Call of Duty or Uncharted game.
Also keep in mind that SnapMap will allow the community to make all the complex maps they want.
I remember Tarnsman saying something along the line of it wouldn't fit with the new aesthetic.
It probably wouldn't.
Can you take a map from something like Valiant and make it into it's full HD next-gen glory retaining it's shape and path and..etc? Keep in mind this game's mechanics are not like the original. So probably something like The Chasm from Doom II wouldn't work.
drawing squares and shapes and texture plastering on DB2 is a lot easier than working with such a engine.
If you people want the original doom experience with something new I strongly urge you to play The Adventures of Square.
Cartoonish graphics, new game content, new animations, characters everything, it's a new game. Plus it's better than Splatoon.
Well, I disagree. While Doom 3 sold somewhat more than Doom I and II, the potential userbase was also much larger. There's not really a significant difference made by going into what is perceived as mass audience appeal.
Making abstract level design work is all up to the skills of the artists. If anything it would add to mass appeal in my opinion, because there's nothing out there like it at the moment. Especially in the huge blur of sameness with FPS's these days, an appeal to differentiate would have value.
Then the aesthetic should be different? Don't really understand what you're trying to say here. Seems to me you're saying people shouldn't be disappointed / want something different than what ID has shown. Or are your comments purely w.r.t. that map?
CastorTroy
Member
Really disappointed with everything shown so far.
Guess I'll have to rely on Shadow Warrior 2 for more high-octane twitch shooting fix.
Guess I'll have to rely on Shadow Warrior 2 for more high-octane twitch shooting fix.
They're obviously coming up with their own thing, they want to make it another base on mars's moon thing or mars itself I don't know. If they were making a new entry just said fuck it and base it everywhere with grass and startan and city maps then I'd say yeah ok.
They obviously want some consistency.
lxion explained it here better than me.
this is doing it's own thing so I guess I shouldn't expect it to be like another megawad to me hitting idgames. I'm just let down by the doom 3 similarities in style. However everything else has been what I could've hoped for.
People want to be disappointed let them, I haven't a clue why they thought it'd be a absolute super fast Doom 1 remake, it's a reboot. It looks plenty fast paced and new to me judging by that hell demo and the trailer.
It's the best Doom 3 I could've hope for but as you can read a lot of people here and probably all over loved doom 3. And wanted another doom 3.
So we've only got vague levels, nothing has been really revealed except two locations. Just wait to see. Obviously.
And on the other part of the internet..
I'm genuinely surprised so many here were fans of the original.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Eh, those are probably the same kind of dorks who bitch and moan when some breaking news disturb their American Idol coverage or whatever.
Carry on.
Why would an unrealistic level layout have to look unrealistic from a visual standpoint as well? The disjoint would actually be a good thing.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Absolutely, 100% agree. You pretty much nailed it with the MK comparison.
I hope they just remove it altogether, I'd hate do be stuck using it on console when PC users could just mod it out. Or at least make it optional so it only shows up in the easiest difficulty or something.
I'm totally, 100% down with this game, just a disclaimer.
I don't know why so many people seem determined to hate on this game. I get things like the enemies seeming too monochrome, or Hell looking too yellow (though I think the alternatives posted in this thread are actually worse), or the general fear that accompanies each new Doom release. What I don't understand is things like an introductory map or gameplay that was clearly meant to be cinematic being pulled apart in search of any potential flaw, and then carrying that criticism into the game and the studio as a whole. Even things like the cyberdemon yelling in the player's face seemed like it was merely a scripted moment to drum up hype, to me. Why does that show that they don't care?
For me the biggest issue is that people are claiming there is no appeal to the fans of classic Doom in what has been shown, and that this looks the same as any other FPS out there. Even considering the design changes, the double jump and things like the weapon wheel I have to ask, what? What AAA game looks and plays like this in 2015? Even if you can't give them 100% credit I think it's pretty clear that they've gotten a lot closer to the old-school FPS design than almost every other recent shooter, especially if your consider the route that Quake 4 and Doom 3 went.
Obviously there are huge differences between this game and the classic ones, and some of those choices might not end up amounting to a superior experience, but I think it's pretty clear that they're trying to find a compromise between classic FPS design and modern sensibilities. For me the hope isn't that they bump the speed up or remove the fatalities (though the super shotgun should definitely be a lot more powerful upon release, that's a given) but that the gameplay loop they craft is fun, and feels somewhat familiar.
I don't know why so many people seem determined to hate on this game. I get things like the enemies seeming too monochrome, or Hell looking too yellow (though I think the alternatives posted in this thread are actually worse), or the general fear that accompanies each new Doom release. What I don't understand is things like an introductory map or gameplay that was clearly meant to be cinematic being pulled apart in search of any potential flaw, and then carrying that criticism into the game and the studio as a whole. Even things like the cyberdemon yelling in the player's face seemed like it was merely a scripted moment to drum up hype, to me. Why does that show that they don't care?
For me the biggest issue is that people are claiming there is no appeal to the fans of classic Doom in what has been shown, and that this looks the same as any other FPS out there. Even considering the design changes, the double jump and things like the weapon wheel I have to ask, what? What AAA game looks and plays like this in 2015? Even if you can't give them 100% credit I think it's pretty clear that they've gotten a lot closer to the old-school FPS design than almost every other recent shooter, especially if your consider the route that Quake 4 and Doom 3 went.
Obviously there are huge differences between this game and the classic ones, and some of those choices might not end up amounting to a superior experience, but I think it's pretty clear that they're trying to find a compromise between classic FPS design and modern sensibilities. For me the hope isn't that they bump the speed up or remove the fatalities (though the super shotgun should definitely be a lot more powerful upon release, that's a given) but that the gameplay loop they craft is fun, and feels somewhat familiar.
You're creating a straw man and are dismissive in general. Most people in this topic have been very nuanced in explaining what they don't like from this introduction. If this was a new IP, I would've been with you, but it's a sequel. And sequels create expectations and desires. I think it's only reasonable that people voice their complaints in that regard.
Ixion
Member
Something like the Doom 3 Classic mod?
Yeah, we're getting an FPS game that's not based on taking cover or being stealthy. It''s about dodging monsters and projectiles with speed while kicking ass, which is not something you see in AAA gaming anymore. I'm ecstatic that Doom 4 is focusing on that core tenet. We're also getting a strong focus on user created maps, which is another integral aspect of the long-lived Doom community.
But with that said, this game is going to be something different. And while that means it's going to play differently than classic Doom, it also looks to play differently than most other modern shooters.
Yesss, that one. Loved it. Too bad it's only a small part. But yeah, that mod works very well in my opinion, was even thinking of posting it here, but hadn't yet.
Eh, not really sure how that would apply. A lot of games have tons of NPCs with their own animations, voice actors, tons of cutscenes, one-time setpieces etc. etc.. I'm not even sure if it would be more effort to make in a straight up comparison, backtracking in maps would already compensate a bit for time player / developer effort. Why do you think it would be more work though than other games?
I don't think I've been dismissive. There are a lot of legitimate concerns to have with this game and I'm not dismissing any of them. At the same time, I do think that concluding that the game's map design is garbage from a glimpse of two areas is a bit premature. There's nothing to suggest that we won't get more labyrinthine maps as the game progresses. Whether that's likely or not is another story.
When I say people seem determined to hate on the game I'm talking more about the spirit of the criticism, not the nuance. There's a cloud of "This aspect of the game is worrying me. See, I knew better than to trust id." hanging over a lot of the posts I've seen about this game when we really don't have that much to go on, positive or negative. Are they gonna pull it off? I don't know, but then who does at this point?
I would phrase it more like many people here have strong nostalgia for the game and possibly unrealistic and varied expectations for a sequel/remake.
I think that covers the gamut.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I would love the colors in the color corrected pics. That to me goes a long way to tickle the nostalgic vibe. I am pleased with everything else.
It will not keep me from picking this up if it does not change however. If they are going to have mod support, even on the console level, someone will fix that up.
The Janitor
Member
Yeah that looks pretty bad. If they removed the glow, added some better gun sounds and made it look less yellow, I'd be totally down with this game.
Psyrgery ES
Member
This is my only concern.
From what I've seen thus far, this new DOOM looks like the TRUE DooM3 to me.
Looking foreard to it.
A true Doom 3 exists already and it's called Doom 64.
This looks like classic Doom gunplay with Doom 3 level design. I'm not holding my breath for this to be anything like the classic games with regards to the latter because no one from those games is working on this one (or is there someone left?).
This looks like classic Doom gunplay with Doom 3 level design. I'm not holding my breath for this to be anything like the classic games with regards to the latter because no one from those games is working on this one (or is there someone left?).
Ulysses 31
Member
And add self-shadowing of the player in the environments(at least in the PC version).
It just generally bugs me not to see your shadow when there's a bright light source behind you in modern first person games.
Doom is old-school. Today's gamers like to think they are a highly sophisticated lot and something like Doom is beneath them on an intellectual level and all that crap. They're full of shit basically.
There's nothing wrong with Doom 4.
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
I got Doom 3 vibes from the first video ie. corridors then a couple of monsters. but the second video in the OP was much more like it.
However, I do have a nagging bad feeling about it.
cormack12
Gold Member
Free aim would always change the way DOOM works. I agree with the vibrancy of the colours (that applies to most modern games though). Sometimes, I feel most developers are doing the Harry Potter movie trick, of adding an instangram or iMovie effect ot generate 'atmosphere'. Seriously needs to die, it also softens the colour palette and just generally makes everything 'samey' and 'boring'. I get they're going for the sand infused, hazy dust look but it's just not working.
I do like the new key card lock system. Having to find the correct dead marine with the correct arm to unlock the next gated area is a good design in my opinion. It keeps the same mechanic alive, with a believable and quite cool feature. It would be cool if you take their body armour to replenish/replace your own as well - bit of a risk or reward if an enemy spawned in?
From the trailers what I came away with the most was the openness of the environments, and the lack of cramped nature of them. This may just be the beginning level, but I remember tight claustrophobic areas where you'd have a couple of pinkies running round and needing to back up quite a lot, then strafe somewhere new to get a second shot off. They were quite intense. These seem to be typical outdoor arenas or large 'warehouse' interiors as I refer to them with environmental obstruction like crates etc.
I hope they also have the vantage points that I liked in the original Doom. If you went certain paths at certain times, you could stumble on a high window/ledge where you could see waiting enemies, pick them off like a boss and then later in that level you'd stumble into a room full of dead bodies and be like 'Oh yeah! That' where I was earlier'.
Chainsaw doesn't really bother me that much, however it's importance will be resource based. It's an ammunition conservation weapon - I'm guessing it becomes more important/integral the harder the difficulty you play on. Maybe even on some of the large enemies, it can be used as focused attacks on the limbs/joints (a la some FROM enemies).
The speed looks reasonably good. The guy playing was being careful to look round the environment and show it off, panning the camera slowly.
I don't really like the blue glow when you shoot enemies, and I also am not in love with the glowing things dropping from dead bodies. Looks a bit weird. I prefer to just use bumpers or triangle to cycle through my weapons instead of radial dials. Some of the weapons feel 'weak' from the enemy response as well. But the guy might be on a decent to hard difficulty level. The plasma rifle looked OK, but not as attention grabbing as the old one.
I do like the new key card lock system. Having to find the correct dead marine with the correct arm to unlock the next gated area is a good design in my opinion. It keeps the same mechanic alive, with a believable and quite cool feature. It would be cool if you take their body armour to replenish/replace your own as well - bit of a risk or reward if an enemy spawned in?
From the trailers what I came away with the most was the openness of the environments, and the lack of cramped nature of them. This may just be the beginning level, but I remember tight claustrophobic areas where you'd have a couple of pinkies running round and needing to back up quite a lot, then strafe somewhere new to get a second shot off. They were quite intense. These seem to be typical outdoor arenas or large 'warehouse' interiors as I refer to them with environmental obstruction like crates etc.
I hope they also have the vantage points that I liked in the original Doom. If you went certain paths at certain times, you could stumble on a high window/ledge where you could see waiting enemies, pick them off like a boss and then later in that level you'd stumble into a room full of dead bodies and be like 'Oh yeah! That' where I was earlier'.
Chainsaw doesn't really bother me that much, however it's importance will be resource based. It's an ammunition conservation weapon - I'm guessing it becomes more important/integral the harder the difficulty you play on. Maybe even on some of the large enemies, it can be used as focused attacks on the limbs/joints (a la some FROM enemies).
The speed looks reasonably good. The guy playing was being careful to look round the environment and show it off, panning the camera slowly.
I don't really like the blue glow when you shoot enemies, and I also am not in love with the glowing things dropping from dead bodies. Looks a bit weird. I prefer to just use bumpers or triangle to cycle through my weapons instead of radial dials. Some of the weapons feel 'weak' from the enemy response as well. But the guy might be on a decent to hard difficulty level. The plasma rifle looked OK, but not as attention grabbing as the old one.
And add self-shadowing of the player in the environments(at least in the PC version).
It just generally bugs me not to see your shadow when there's a bright light source behind you in modern first person games.
pretty sure that stuff was old footage, since its identical of the Quakecon demo last year
Methamatics101
Member
What's up with the yellow filter? It looks like someone took a piss on my screen.
IAmRandom31
Banned
i fully expect someone to go in and recreate the original doom maps.
Dictator93
Member
The gameplay demo is using the latest engine build according to tiago soursa.
And the reason for that shadow difference is because basically all, if not most games, use a separate shadowing system for first person weapon models (they really do not exist in world space in the tradition sense). That is probably why you see it have a shadow in 3rd person, but then have that shadow disappear in first person.
Nonetheless, that FP models cast shadows on themselves, which is quite rare (Crysis 3, CS:GO do that, but no others that I know of).
Of course you can ge around this problem completely by using 3rd person models as first person ones (Fear, Arma, Star Citizen). But that means your third person model and animations have to be very high quality.
Ixion
Member
It seems id Software might be doing that themselves. That insider "Vile Self" leaked a bunch of information about Fallout 4 and DOOM which turned out to be correct, and one of the leaks was that id Software would release the original Doom levels as DLC.
No, Robert Trump and Harry S. Sloan want a game that can appeal to the largest amount of pockets, which means they demanded a product that panders all the way down to the lowest common demoninator.
Which means, DOOM for morons who cant handle anything more than automatically getting a 'key' in a cutscene, and going back 10 feet to use it, while being locked in a confined area, so they couldnt possibly get lost going back that 10 feet.
I wonder if there is a way to buy the level editor seperately, without the garbage.... er, wads(?), that is the 'campaign'....
It all just feels very stiff to me. That includes things like player movement and weapon animations, and just the overall feedback from the environment. Compare this to the Shadow Warrior 2 footage which was received much more favorably, and a lot of people saying specifically that it's better than Doom 4. The whole thing is just faster, more fluid like the original game, and not to mention more colorful.
Smurfman256
Member
Last thing John Carmack said he worked on for that game was Doom Snapmap, so at least there's that. Plus, the devs for this game all seem like the kind of people who grew up playing classic DOOM, which probably explains the switch from the CoD-clone style that was DOOM 4 to this one.
