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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
- Thread starter Swag
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close to the edge
Member
GG
Nice games. That was a fun little tournament.
Nice games. That was a fun little tournament.
Technosteve
Banned
six hours of watching dota, maybe i go play some
I don't think bottle on enigma is a good route. Soul ring is a much better alternative. Stick with the soul ring.
I've been getting mad at video games since before it was cool.
I think I should clarify that I'm not really mad at people if I'm shouting at them, I'm just a bit overzealous.
PillowKnight
Member
Well, you thought wrong, it's an excellent item on him. It is however a different play style of enigma than soul ring is, you'll be playing a lot harder since you'll have much higher up time and your HP won't be a huge issue.
This isn't a farm in the jungle for 15 min enigma, it's a very gank focused build.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Nice to see Mouz come out and win a nice string of games in the Brawl Qualifier #3. They had some tough teams in their group: SK, xP, next.kz, and EG. SingSing on death prophet ftw.
http://www.gamereplays.org/dota2/portals.php?show=news&news_id=860969
http://www.gamereplays.org/dota2/portals.php?show=news&news_id=860969
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Neki activates his bkb at creeps, gotta be safe.
id believe it
That Centaur just may stun him!
You got to get the cooldown low so you can use it more!!
roamers and heroes that doesnt need alot of mana
chixdiggit
Member
After playing a bunch of League of Legends and a few matches of this, I think I just need to face the fact that these type of games are not for me. It's too hard to have fun when you suck so bad.
I have also been playing the Super MNC beta and have been doing great at that. I think the difference is that I get impatient in DOTA and want to rush in at times when I should be staying back or retreating. MNC would also mean death doing the same but I don't have the same problem.
I have also been playing the Super MNC beta and have been doing great at that. I think the difference is that I get impatient in DOTA and want to rush in at times when I should be staying back or retreating. MNC would also mean death doing the same but I don't have the same problem.
There's no one correct item build. Buying a bottle isn't a good idea if you don't plan to use it storing runes, so if they've got a highly mobile mid like Mirana or Akasha, you'll be stuck monopolizing your team's chicken for refills.
There are plenty of situations where bottle isn't good on Enigma. He's not wrong.
When did I ever talk about 15 minute farm? The issue with bottle crowing is you are not letting your other teammates use the courier. I'm sorry but bottle enigma is just sily.
you get bottle because as enigma, you help control one of the runes while the mid controls the other rune, denying the enemy middle of all runes.
dota 101 here.
wait, who does enigma counter though?
You don't need a bottle to pick up/deny runes. If your mid has no problem beating the other mid to the rune spots, then you don't need a bottle.
You can camp the spot and guard it while your mid gets there (best option especially since you can still be farming with your minions), grab it if it's regen and you need it, etc.
Who needs bottle for any of that? I prefer spending my money on faster boots and maybe a Basilius so I can go to lane for ganks and be regenning while I'm not using my mana (sitting behind trees etc).
What if your middle is not running bottle? Then you're just going to waste an invisible or regen if you're full health. Or if your middle can't leave the lane? Bottle just gives Enigma more utility. I like Soul Ring, but if you plan on being active, I think Bottle Enigma is better. Fast soul ring or fast bottle is basically what you can choose. Bottle is a lot more safer to jungle with too.
My point was that the guy who said he doesn't like bottle Enigma isn't wrong. Everything in Dota is situational.
PillowKnight
Member
It is absolutely a good idea, a bottle is a hell of a lot of HP and MP regen throughout the entire game, it beats having to buy clarities and potions to keep your health up and to minimize downtime.
As far as bottle crowing goes, you don't need to have the bottle on you 100% of the time and it can travel around on the courier in the case that people need to use it. Bottle provides better regen than any other item in the early game, hence it being a very active item build. Soul ring gives you the mana but at a life deficit, and it's not as useful in teamfights where you need your health to stay alive. Mana boots are great, but they're very expensive and they lack the HP regen so you'll likely be making trips back to base or buying health pots.
Oh and I forgot to mention a very important aspect, oftentimes soul ring will give you enough mana to cast stun but not to cast conversions, this is a big deal, the bottle doesn't have as big a limit on mana return.
I never said there was one right item build. In fact my original post says the opposite of that. It seems you've missed the context of my posts.
The Bolded part implies there are different ways to play him.
Think of a situation like this. You are Pudge and see someone else and fight them for the rune. You get it and bottle it, they die. Meanwhile, nearby Anti-Mage is in a fight and it isn't going well. If you could share bottled runes, then Pudge could just give it to Anti-Mage, he can blink back into the fight and everything will be okay.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Oh how I love you Viper. So easy and fun to play.
that was part of the strategy, and it was fun in dota
Wait, are you implying you technically CAN give bottled runes to each other or not? I had no idea you could in Dota or Dota 2.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Just put 1 ward or a hawk over one of the rune spawn sites. That way you know which one it spawns at.
Constantly using the courier for bottle is bad, I'm sorry its true.
Constantly using the courier for bottle is bad, I'm sorry its true.
no you cant
but im so sure you used to be able to in the wc3 dota
maybe it was only HoN
You could but it was patched out, we're talking early dota here though. Think you can do it in hon though.
yeah... its been a while since doing dota allnighters at net cafes
Risible
Member
I don't get it. I suck so hard at this game it's not funny.
I'm pretty much always the lowest in gold/min and exp/min.
I do my best to stay in lane and max exp. However, it seems like everyone is stronger than me after level 6 or so. I try to stay on top of items and upgrade when I can.
Every fight it seems like I can't dent the other dude, and they can like two-shot me.
I must be missing something - I've watched videos and watched games in progress and I can't figure out what I'm doing so wrong.
Sigh.
I'm pretty much always the lowest in gold/min and exp/min.
I do my best to stay in lane and max exp. However, it seems like everyone is stronger than me after level 6 or so. I try to stay on top of items and upgrade when I can.
Every fight it seems like I can't dent the other dude, and they can like two-shot me.
I must be missing something - I've watched videos and watched games in progress and I can't figure out what I'm doing so wrong.
Sigh.
Okay, I've brought this up before, but what do you guys use for the item keys? I can't decide what to stick with. At first I set it to be HoN-style (Alt+QWEASD). Then I changed it to 123456 at the top and moved control groups to F1-6. Then I realized reaching control+F-key felt awkward, so I went back to Alt+QWEASD. Then I realized with heroes like Drow Ranger I can't do autocast with Alt+Q while having my items set that way, so I switched it to 789456 on the numpad. That feels awkward, but I'm somewhat getting the hang of it.
I think we all feel like that at some point.
Maybe you are just getting harassed a lot and suffering for it.
Edit:
I click lol. I really should change that, but I'm too lazy to be more proficient.
What heroes have you been using?
Togglesworlh
Banned
What heroes are you actually playing? Not everyone is a damage dealer, and many are more team-dependent than others. There's also a difference between burst and sustained damage heroes.
If you really want to autocast (I hate autocasting for the most part), you can just right-click on the skill. Since it's not something you'll be doing often, you don't necessarily need the keyboard shortcut, maybe.
Risible
Member
Since everyone is asking, I'll reply to this one post
.I've tried a bunch. I figured I should see what one suits me. I've tried pretty much every role and sucked at them all, from ganker to support.
I've played about 16 or so games now, so that means I've tried 16 different heroes.
Have 123456 be items, have ZXC be control groups (If you need more then 3 groups, keep going)
slidewinder
Banned
Clinkz seems like a really good carry for n00bs, and maybe even overall (although I'm a very much a noob and not in a position to make that call).
His fire arrows make last-hitting early on much easier than with other carries I've tried, which of course leads to more gold and therefore items earlier, which makes last-hitting even easier again. On top of that, the buff from his ult gives you even more auto-attack damage, as well as a ton of HP sustain in lane. And his invis is both a great escape and provides for some easy opportunistic kills as you start roaming since it lasts so long. And then he's even got a huge, quick-refreshing "steroid," in LoL terms, with his attack-speed buff.
Does he scale worse somehow compared to other carries?
His fire arrows make last-hitting early on much easier than with other carries I've tried, which of course leads to more gold and therefore items earlier, which makes last-hitting even easier again. On top of that, the buff from his ult gives you even more auto-attack damage, as well as a ton of HP sustain in lane. And his invis is both a great escape and provides for some easy opportunistic kills as you start roaming since it lasts so long. And then he's even got a huge, quick-refreshing "steroid," in LoL terms, with his attack-speed buff.
Does he scale worse somehow compared to other carries?
being reliant on invisibility makes him a good pub hero, but not so good in real matches
It kinda goes both ways with Clinkz. He's REALLY squishy, and without any farm he doesn't actually do huge huge damage. His windwalk is on a longer cooldown, too, and he's mana-intensive. His attack animation is garbage and his projectile is pretty slow.
That being said, he can be pretty convenient for nwebies, travelling at max movement speed, free damage, and a free "heal" (although it's more of a damage/hp boost than a heal). Either way the hero is fun as hell.
That being said, he can be pretty convenient for nwebies, travelling at max movement speed, free damage, and a free "heal" (although it's more of a damage/hp boost than a heal). Either way the hero is fun as hell.
Risible
Member
I'll give Tidehunter a try now.
I also don't get how to fluently use the keys and/or control the game.
I'm an FPS player and completely new to MOBA type games. I'm used to WASD and mouse.
I've been playing Dota 2 with the mouse and my hand hovering around the QWER keys. My mouse is used to pan and move the hero. It seems awkward and doesn't work to well. And forget trying to activate a KP key, then I'm standing still.
Is there a better way? Am I just not used to the control scheme or am I doing it all wrong?
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