Do GAF practice games with us. We can teach you what's going on, tell you which heroes you should start with, etc.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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Do GAF practice games with us. We can teach you what's going on, tell you which heroes you should start with, etc.
I'm offended.
I feel the best solution is just having separate "Can Forfeit" and "Can't Forfeit" match-making pools.
I kind of agree. In my HoN experiences, often if we screwed up, the other team got Kongor, it was always "alright guys lets conc". It was kind of annoying to rarely get to finish games.
I like how he doesnt even try to approach the negative aspects, like the time investment or the fact that it leaves the losing team open to trolling as the winning team goes off and farms for 30 minutes.
I think this would splinter the pool, way too much, as you'll probably have people queuing for SD AP CM AR and then further splitting that up into Forfeit / Non Forfeit, but I guess it depends on the player size.
I can already see everyone thinking people that play in Forfeit matches not being the "Real Dota Community"
Gez's thoughts:
If i am soloing queuing and there is no conceed. I will just afk in base. Simple.
With Gaffers i don't care i will play.
This seems the biggest problem to me, people trolling and/or prolonging it because they want an hour game and 20+ kills.
The thing is, usually in games where you want to concede fairly early on, it's because of a leaver. After 5 minutes everyone is allowed to leave safely.
I agree with his sentiments, but I think, 95% of the time, its a waste when you get to a certain point that is unwinnable, you've lost, why have to sit around and wait to lose.
Have like 5/5 concede votes at 30-40 minutes, or have something like a double rax be concede-able. I don't want to have to wait around for them to push and finish the game.
And I honestly don't see the community adjusting to not having a concede option. Its going to make AFKing, raging and trolling happen a lot more. As much as I hate it, the dota community isn't likely to change much.
Hope their Report function works as intended, I rage quit a few matches cause my teammates sucked and got put into low priority pool, that shit sucked so bad I haven't even thought of AFKing out or leaving a match again.
Except that one match where me and Neki Quelling Bladed our way to China.
On Topic though, it's very annoying playing a game that's winnable with people that want to give up, it's honestly more frustrating then just having someone feeding.
I'd rather have a team quit earlier than be stuck in a game for an additional 20 minutes.
Which is also why I think the decreasing amount of votes are good too. 20minutes: 5/5, 30 minutes 4/5, 40 minutes 3/5.
Concede is definitely a much needed option. The problem is, if you are losing, your team is going to give up at some point, whether it's voting to concede or afk-ing in the fountain for 20 minutes. One option gets me out of that game and into another, the other option has me sitting around for 20 minutes.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Oh, are we talking about conceding again? Doop doop de doop.
Togglesworlh
Banned
You know, Botolf, now that I think about it, I'm sort of surprised there isn't a "mics are required!" debate popping up every week like used to happen in L4D threads.
I guess Dota being slower-paced and traditionally not having in-game mic support makes it a non-issue.
I guess Dota being slower-paced and traditionally not having in-game mic support makes it a non-issue.
The mics issue has struck me as silly for a while (even in L4D). Provided you've played with your teammates before and become accustomed to them, or have hashed out your roles beforehand (or both), you can and probably will do well. Of course, what's understandably preferable is to have all of that and possess a microphone for when one needs it. Redundancy saves lives!
Togglesworlh
Banned
Well, of course it's silly, but that doesn't necessarily stop people from arguing about it all the time.
Ikuu: I'm calling you out. I had sub 600g for the majority of the game, almost all of my gold went into wards and courier. When you had blink dagger, all I had was boots and a soul ring.
Is it really too much to ask to buy a set of wards from time to time? Especially when you have two farming skills?
Just because you're not pure support doesn't mean you CAN'T BUY WARDS.
I wouldn't ask AM to buy wards because he needs every bit of gold to keep up with their carries, ditto for Razor.
What item in your post-dagger build could possibly be so important that you could not spare 200g in order to alleviate the burden on your support (who was, I might add, doing fairly poorly, and only getting worse because I could not keep up with their team).
I rarely rage in this game, but whenever you complain about wards I really want to wring your neck. I've seen hard carries buy Smoke or Dust when needed, because the support either can't afford it or isn't good enough to use them effectively. What makes you so special that you can't do this as well?
Is it really too much to ask to buy a set of wards from time to time? Especially when you have two farming skills?
Just because you're not pure support doesn't mean you CAN'T BUY WARDS.
I wouldn't ask AM to buy wards because he needs every bit of gold to keep up with their carries, ditto for Razor.
What item in your post-dagger build could possibly be so important that you could not spare 200g in order to alleviate the burden on your support (who was, I might add, doing fairly poorly, and only getting worse because I could not keep up with their team).
I rarely rage in this game, but whenever you complain about wards I really want to wring your neck. I've seen hard carries buy Smoke or Dust when needed, because the support either can't afford it or isn't good enough to use them effectively. What makes you so special that you can't do this as well?
Mics not required, but people that play with sound off baffles me to no end.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Valve team and co-op games have the best automated comms in the business, so yeah that's pretty baffling. Even if you don't want to talk, not being able to hear the announcer calls would be crippling in TF2 and DOTA2, and not being able to hear your team yell out for help or pills in L4D would be just as bad.
You know you can check how much gold each person has right?
RIGHT???
Answer a question for me, honestly. If you were in a game, and the dedicated supports weren't buying wards, and you weren't playing a hard carry. And, let's assume that when you asked them to buy wards, they didn't.
Would you persist in not buying wards as some kind of revenge against them?
RIGHT???
Answer a question for me, honestly. If you were in a game, and the dedicated supports weren't buying wards, and you weren't playing a hard carry. And, let's assume that when you asked them to buy wards, they didn't.
Would you persist in not buying wards as some kind of revenge against them?
I'm always 90% certain when I see the "no sound" card pulled that they are just using it as an excuse to not listen.
Freakinchair
Member
Oh man this game is coming back to haunt me hurglburglsomethingsomethingpushstrathuglr
I usually assume if your not playing with sound that your just really awful, cause there is so much information to be gained from just game sounds, ultimate uses, skill uses, blinks, force staff uses etc.
You guys lost that game and you even had AM and Dazzle lol
I'm a fan of the concede option because sometimes you just know it's going to go bad.
I just wish they put in harsher penalties for leavers like the ban lists of old. But I have to say, having one or sometimes even two leavers on your team and still beating the enemy team with their full contingent of 5 heroes is damn satisfying. Maybe they can add a feature where once there is a leaver, both teams vote on whether or not they want this game to count. The team with the leaver gets bonus points if they win, the team with 5 gets points, but not as much as a normal 5v5 game.
Which also begs the question. Valve is going to be adding in some sort of ladder system eventually right? I hope so.
I'm also finding it a lot more fun playing with fellow gaffers then in random pubs. Sure it's not like I know the gaffers any more then I know the people in the pubs but still. The few times I've played with gaffers it just seems like there is more on the line, like I have a rep to maintain and therefore, i play better. I just wish more people played/talked on the gaf channel.
Which also brings up two gripes which I'm sure have been mentioned before. Either add a time stamp when chatting in channels and/or remove the person from the channel once they enter a game. Or change the color of their name or something. Too many times have I tried to find a group only to have a fellow gaffer respond 20 min later that he's down or visa versa.
Also, do you guys think we have enough people playing to have a dota2 tourney. I was thinking about organizing one. We can have 3 blocks of beginner, intermediate, and pro. You get randomly assigned to a team after you say yoyr level of expertise and they get like 1 week to practice together before the tournament starts. Scheduling the times might be tough since people are all over the world but we can figure something out. We can also make it interesting by playing for avatars, like the winners get to pick the loser's avatar for a month. Or maybe a PayPal prize pool (donations only of course, no required fee to play besides beta access) the the winners from the 3 blocks can get.
I just wish they put in harsher penalties for leavers like the ban lists of old. But I have to say, having one or sometimes even two leavers on your team and still beating the enemy team with their full contingent of 5 heroes is damn satisfying. Maybe they can add a feature where once there is a leaver, both teams vote on whether or not they want this game to count. The team with the leaver gets bonus points if they win, the team with 5 gets points, but not as much as a normal 5v5 game.
Which also begs the question. Valve is going to be adding in some sort of ladder system eventually right? I hope so.
I'm also finding it a lot more fun playing with fellow gaffers then in random pubs. Sure it's not like I know the gaffers any more then I know the people in the pubs but still. The few times I've played with gaffers it just seems like there is more on the line, like I have a rep to maintain and therefore, i play better. I just wish more people played/talked on the gaf channel.
Which also brings up two gripes which I'm sure have been mentioned before. Either add a time stamp when chatting in channels and/or remove the person from the channel once they enter a game. Or change the color of their name or something. Too many times have I tried to find a group only to have a fellow gaffer respond 20 min later that he's down or visa versa.
Also, do you guys think we have enough people playing to have a dota2 tourney. I was thinking about organizing one. We can have 3 blocks of beginner, intermediate, and pro. You get randomly assigned to a team after you say yoyr level of expertise and they get like 1 week to practice together before the tournament starts. Scheduling the times might be tough since people are all over the world but we can figure something out. We can also make it interesting by playing for avatars, like the winners get to pick the loser's avatar for a month. Or maybe a PayPal prize pool (donations only of course, no required fee to play besides beta access) the the winners from the 3 blocks can get.
You know, punishing the team without a leaver doesn't seem like a good idea, while rewarding the team with one.
Do we have enough people to make all 3 blocks and have decent tournaments in each? I'm not sure if I would classify myself under beginner or intermediate.....
Sanic
Member
Meaning we just gather in the channel at a designated time. Assign to captians and go play?
I guess I need to see level of interest first, if there is any. So, I'll start another thread for the tourney but lets see if people in here are interested. If you are, just say yes or pm me or something and I'll see how many we get over the next couple of days.
I only saw that after the game ended and you were in my active friends list.
Wasn't Archie on AM?
Wasn't Archie on AM?
ILU
Next youll come up with clever acronyms two remember skill and item builds.
I wonder how visible the Treents eyes will be this time around. Hopefully it's something not too obvious like glowing trees.
Also anyone else finding a hard time countering heroes like niax or seeker later in the game. They need to add in heroes like destroyer (don't remember the name, the dude that can increase his mana pool and has a skill that steals 2 intel per second). His ult owned Herod lie that with low intelligence levels.
Also anyone else finding a hard time countering heroes like niax or seeker later in the game. They need to add in heroes like destroyer (don't remember the name, the dude that can increase his mana pool and has a skill that steals 2 intel per second). His ult owned Herod lie that with low intelligence levels.
Maelk has been a huge douchebag towards HoN and LoL in general (disregarding top players from both games for years), so it's no surprise what his stance is here.
He's also giving way too much credit to people who never give a shit in the first place. People buying wards outside their comfort zone? Picking a hero that fits the general line-up even if they don't want to. Yeah, right.
So dumb. The assumption here is that people cannot give up without a concede option. They do, all the time. If my carry feeds the enemy Night Stalker nine times in the first few minutes of the game then I have probably already given up. It's not worth the effort to keep playing at my best when I know that the game's conclusion is already mapped out. Clearly I am not alone in this. Loads of people sit idle in the fountain once their team has made the game unwinnable.
Inherently with Dota you can get behind to a point where you can never succeed. In something like League of Legends it's different. Both teams can reach a maxed out point fairly easily. But in Dota you are losing gold every time you die. When the score gets out of hand and one team pulls away they really pull away. This happens a lot, and it worth letting these games run their course because the outcome is inevitable. Letting people think they stand a chance of winning is a waste of everyone's time when they could simply head to a new game and start with an even chance of success.
This point is particularly absurd. Playing without a forfeit option when you lose is so bad that it will spur people to be better Dota players? People want to win as it is. Who is going into these games and thinking, "Boy, I would love to lose or surrender this match." Making crushing defeats as arduous as possible for the losing team only incentivizes idling or not paying attention to the game because who would ever want to play out a game like that?Maelk said:
This becomes even more noticeable in the beta format, where player count is limited. Without a large pool of players in a similar skill range to pull from many games seem very lopsided to me. People who ask "How do I use the shop?" are mixed in with seasoned players and it becomes very easy for the enemy team to take advantage of that weak link on the other team.
On a more cheerful note I know a number of us aren't seasoned in DoTA and are still looking for support and Purge has you covered. He's also the guy who wrote the intro guide for DoTA.
Newbies rejoice! \o/
Edit: Apologies for the people who had invited me to games when I didn't accept I was already in a game! Alas Dota 2 doesn't tell you this unless you are on their friends list.
Newbies rejoice! \o/
Edit: Apologies for the people who had invited me to games when I didn't accept I was already in a game! Alas Dota 2 doesn't tell you this unless you are on their friends list.
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