That's not an eSports design, it's a component of the genre.
Mobas just have lots of fundamental knowledge
Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]
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Mobas just have lots of fundamental knowledge
So does Starcraft... and seemingly so do other games with eSports focus (not counting shooters).
A shame, i really like DOTA2 otherwise, i just have no patience nor will to learn about everything enough to be good in this game. Medicore? Perhaps, by merely playing enough. But not good, and merely staying medicore burns me out of a game eventually. Guess i'll enjoy this while i can though.
(This ain't a game where everything just "clicks", where i can do things by hunch :/ There are such games, but either i already play them, or they are not deep enough.)
won a game like this a couple weeks back, was great.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
huskar. every. fucking. game.
or tree
fuck this game. bring back drow, centaur, lycan WHATEVER just get rid of these shitters
or tree
fuck this game. bring back drow, centaur, lycan WHATEVER just get rid of these shitters
All e-sport games do, this isn't something special about dota and it's clones. The average gamer is just significantly more acquainted with the knowledge of say, the FPS genre, than they are of mobas. So Mobas appear to be relatively more complicated than they really are.
Random thought: Why would anyone buy MKB on Faceless Void? Seriously, Void has everything it offers built in, and he can pick up the damage somewhere else.
Void has a bash built in, so he doesn't really need minibash.
You have True Strike regardless while under a Chronosphere, which is when you do most of your fighting anyway.
88 damage and 15 AS are nice, but you could use your money on something more functional. It seems kind of silly and redundant to buy an MKB on Void.
Void has a bash built in, so he doesn't really need minibash.
You have True Strike regardless while under a Chronosphere, which is when you do most of your fighting anyway.
88 damage and 15 AS are nice, but you could use your money on something more functional. It seems kind of silly and redundant to buy an MKB on Void.
sorijealut
Member
the new bloodseeker gave me a warm welcome back yesterday.
I hate him.
I hate him.
BabeSlayer
Member
so i thought tab selected you through all your different meepos but mine doesn't seem to do that. How do you guys select your different meepos?
Its nice to have the true strike outside of Chronosphere.
yeah, RTS games also have a lot of fundamental knowledge
There is no "fundamental" complexity about an "esports" game - just logically - because any game can be an e-sports game, but not every game is fundamentally complex. We're not discussing the game being played at the highest level - because competition makes the game complex - but about the basic complexity required for an average casual to play the game.
People are more acquainted with the FPS genre because there are less things to understand - e.g. it doesnt have complex fundamentals. I have a feeling you might argue against this point, but fundamental knowledge is the base knowledge required to function in the game. In an FPS, you just really need to know how to point and shoot + knowledge of mechanics that kill you - which are generally, getting shot and getting exploded. There a multitude more ways and combination of ways to die in MOBAs/RTS, which really just means that you need to know what each hero does, making the knowledge required so much more. Added to that the increased number mechanics that might not even be obvious to people. Personally I don't think it's even a contest between the basic knowledge required in a MOBA/RTS vs an FPS
Yeah, no contest. That said, both require very different skill-sets, so comparing them is not easy. The only thing they have in common are that the player needs to be able to react fast, though applying these reactions is different. Perhaps understanding the flow of the game as well, though i don't think this applies to RTSes as such.
flow is key in dota
dave is ok
aztek is ok
There's an option to bind a key to it. I think it's 'Control Group Tab' or something
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Yeah, now that i think of this, it is (and it ain't important in RTSes as such, and in FPSes it is more about how maps work).
The reason i'm half the time in wrong place, or asking "what should i do now", because i have no idea how the game flows.
Perhaps i need a more mobile hero to get a proper feel of the flow? Warlock and Jakiro don't seem to be mobile, roaming heroes.
Wouldn't call that "flow". Feels too different. Or perhaps just more complex?
There is certain simplicity FPSes and DOTA (and probably other MOBAs) have compared to RTSes like SC2, i think.
The PC Gamer Interview said we should be getting Legion Commander, Abbadon, and the official release of the game before TI3.
No techies because Valve are busy trying to make him cute in order to combat league's teemo
teemo would poison dart and fuk techies up
DONT EVEN NEED TO MICRO SHROOMS
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Detonates all remote mines in 700 radius around target area.
Did it always detonate in an area? I swear you had to select individually
shira
Member
There's a lot of factually wrong things about this post. For example, not every game can be an esport, I submit for example tic tac toe. For another, try giving someone who has never played a video game before in their life a keyboard and mouse and try and have them go online and play some Counter Strike. In comparison to the other players, the "simple" act of navigating 3d space with the given controls will be completely and totally beyond them. Because it's not a simple act at all, it is in fact extremely complicated, you've just done it so much both in and out of game that you mostly don't have to think about it. Notice that you didn't even mention it.
im not saying that FPSes arent isnt hard for everybody, im comparing the genres
give a person a who has never played videogames counterstrike vs easy ai or dota vs easy ai and you know which one they will struggle with more.
i agree that character control is something that must be learnt, but thats something that exists in mobas in addition to all the other knwledge required
we can create straw men all day but to counter your tic tac toe example, here is some rock paper scissors tournament
http://www.airguitaraustralia.com/RPS index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors#Tournaments
how about a more gamey example - tetris - four controls that are quickly learnt (rotate, down, leftright, hold) and one rule - clear lines. There are tournaments for that too. Esports dont have to be complicated. Gamers just prefer that they are.
people will compete in anything theres interest for, whether or not your game is fundamentally complicated
BabeSlayer
Member
you are a gentlemen and a scholar
SteveWinwood
Member
Boken I love you
I notice that absolutely none of those things are like Tic Tac Toe, so I don't know why you are bringing them up. The important point of the Tic Tact Toe example is that there are games so simple that they are completely understood and solved so that there is no such thing as competition. Competition requires there to be differences in the players, no matter how seriously you take Tic Tact Toe it doesn't matter in the slightest as I can always force a draw.
And to the counter strike example, the people don't matter. It was an illustrative example that you seem to have missed, to show you that you are assuming things you can do easily are not complex, when that is far from the truth. If you truly think that mapping and traversing 3D space is not complicated, then you can be making shit tons of money telling people how. I can with a high degree of statistical certainty say that you are in fact not doing that, which casts doubts on your claim that it is in fact a simple task.
Pureauthor
Member
jaundicejuice
Member
I almost wish that this game was region locked like Starcraft.
Decided to buy it from the store since i wanted the Witch Doctor items for my first purchase. It's basically free since i made like 15bucks from Steam cards.
I called your tic tac toe example a straw man because i was saying not all games are fundamentally complex, not that all games have absolutely zero complexity. (RPS is pretty close to tic tac toe though)
e.g. to simplify the concept, we can use "time to be able to function in the game"
dead simple, game solved immediately - 2 hrs to learn fundamental rules/mechanics (FPS) - 100 hrs to learn fundamentals->fundamentally complex (Dota)
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I'm not sure what you're saying, I accept that there are things you need to learn in an FPS. I didnt miss "3d movement" because I wasnt saying FPSes are dead simple - I am trying to compare an FPS to the MOBA genre in my argument. Yes, 3d movement isn't easy. But Mobas have that (unit movement + seperate to camera movement - thats CRAAAZY) in addition to all the other knowledge crap going on. I am trying to say that the basic requirements to function in a moba is much higher than in an FPS
what do you mean the people dont matter? if they dont, who is playing the game?
I do it for you
Is lasts until the end of TI3 (11 of August). It also comes with an upgradable courier, HUD, a set of taunts (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) and grants you access to Compendium matchmaking. I believe the only difference from buying from the market is just the personal contribution that is shown as 0 instead of $2.50:
Sure it's "nice", but it's also nice to have money for better things...
Tab will cycle through all units you currently have selected. Select the units you want in a control group and press ctrl+1-0 to put those units on a number key. Try grouping your first meepo on 1, all meepos except the first on 2, then all meepos on 3. So to poof, you would move your first meepo towards the enemy, then press 2 w leftclick tab, 2 w leftclick tab, etc. to poof all the meepos.
TouchMyBox
Member
Guys...
Why are there not Teddie and Rise announcer packs for Dota 2?
Someone start a petition or something.
Why are there not Teddie and Rise announcer packs for Dota 2?
Someone start a petition or something.
Captain Fish
Member
Bonds before golem.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Show them the scoreboard why dont you HALY.
I think the gif speaks for itself.
It's a good thing Tre was there to pick up your slack and carry us to victory.
It's driving me nuts haha.
This just makes me want developer commentary. Hopefully they add it like their last games. Not due how it would work with a single map though unless they use the tutorial ones.
Not sure which one i should get...
I don't like the bird one. I'm sorta leaning towards the Crab, what happens when they turn into a Flying Courier?
elmariachi
Banned
Fight, spam your flame spears, get aghm and spam your ulti. Sometimes you just want to ulti, kite and ulti again. Just don't expect to live every fight.
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